Mariano Rivera Steiner game save balls

[cjclong]

I see that Steiner is marketing some baseballs in used in Mariano Rivera's saves this year. So far it looks like all of those on the market come from games at Yankee Stadium. Does anyone know if they have any baseballs on Rivera's saves away from Yankee Stadium? Any would there be any reason for Rivera or the Yankees not to be able to keep the last out ball from a game played away from home?

[joelsabi]

seems like claim of ownership of the baseball goes to mlb and the home team first. It doesnt mean the Yankees cannot request a specific baseball when they are on the road. Out of courtesy they may give the road team some baseballs.

The other possibility is that it never gets authenticated because it is kept by a player.

interesting question. hope other share what they know too

[joelsabi]

I see that Steiner is marketing some baseballs in used in Mariano Rivera's saves this year. So far it looks like all of those on the market come from games at Yankee Stadium. Does anyone know if they have any baseballs on Rivera's saves away from Yankee Stadium? Any would there be any reason for Rivera or the Yankees not to be able to keep the last out ball from a game played away from home?

Is Steiner marketing baseballs used in a game where Rivera got a save or the actual baseball in play when the Yankees made the final out in a save situation? The latter is really appealing.

[bobsis24]

Is Steiner marketing baseballs used in a game where Rivera got a save or the actual baseball in play when the Yankees made the final out in a save situation? The latter is really appealing.

A few months ago, Steiner was selling "last out" balls from Mo's saves 559 through 598 in 2011. The catch: you could not identify which specific game/save any particular ball was from. I was told by the rep that he didn't mark them at the time, and so he signed them "Road to 602 - 11 Last out". Steiner was asking $1500.

eBay item 231029133374 is a Steiner ball "game pitched" by Mo from Save #634. It's also MLB authenticated (from a game at Yankee Stadium), but it's not the "last out" ball (authentication says "MARIANO RIVERA PITCHED TO WILL MYERS GROUND FOUL BALL FOR SAVE", but according to baseball-reference.com Myers singled & was not the last batter). Seller is asking $2500.

eBay item 161093234378 is a Steiner/MLB game-used ball. Signed by Mo with "Save #617", but it was not pitched by him. Seller is asking $400. I think I've seen several of this type recently.

Bob

[cjclong]

I got an email from Steiner about Rivera save baseballs for this year. I saw the save he got in the last game he will pitch at the Rangers Ballpark in Texas and checked to see if it might be available. I saw only Yankee saves listed. I thought that they were the last out balls, but since they didn't have what I wanted I didn't check that closely. Obviously the last out ball would be the one you want if available. If anyone knows whether they have Rivera save balls for this year from games away from Yankee Stadium and/or last out balls I'd appreciate knowing. I know I have seen a player get his first major league hit at the opposing team's stadium and a player would throw the ball to the player's visiting dugout for him to keep. But whether this is just a courtesy I don't know.

[marino13]

Not to burst anyone bubble - but $442 is a deal to good to be true for an actual signed game used from MARIANO'S pitched inning(s). They are NOT.

These are just generic baseballs from the game that he got the save. It is NOT from the specific inning he pitched to acquire the save.

All of these baseballs are MLB hologrammed as "Game Used Ball from xx/xx/13.


I was very disappointed once I have a chance to look up one of those holograms. Oh well, I guess you can file this under "uneducated collectors will think they are getting something better but they really not".

I am not discounting the Mariano's signature or the save inscription - but the process is too shady for my taste!

[BCowan]

I wanted to help with some answers to the questions posed on this thread:

1. The $442 baseballs are game used baseballs from home games Mariano has recorded a save. These balls are signed and inscribed with the save number.
2. We are only able to offer home games because our Yankees-Steiner partnership does not cover baseballs from a road game, those balls belong to the home team.
3. We do have game used baseballs from games where Mo has recorded a save that were thrown by him in the 9th inning and have been offering those also signed and inscribed.
4. Regarding final out balls we will be getting at some point. Those balls come directly from Mariano. He keeps the final out ball from all of his saves, it's a practice he has done for several years now not just this season. In past seasons he has not kept track of which ball is from which save but he is doing this for 2013 in addition to MLB authenticating the balls.

Hope this helps, let me know if there's anything else I can answer.

Brooks Cowan
Steiner Sports

[marino13]

I wanted to help with some answers to the questions posed on this thread:

1. The $442 baseballs are game used baseballs from home games Mariano has recorded a save. These balls are signed and inscribed with the save number.


3. We do have game used baseballs from games where Mo has recorded a save that were thrown by him in the 9th inning and have been offering those also signed and inscribed.

Brooks Cowan
Steiner Sports


(First of, let me say, I am a big fan of Steinersports. I do spend my fair share on high-end items)

...But, the option #1 bothered me!

a. Why have Mo signed it AND inscribed it with a save number - on a game used ball? This would give the uneducated collectors thinking that he/she got a game used "pitched" ball from the 9th inning save - but it is really NOT.


b. What is the the inscription for option #2? It has to be different since I KNOW for a fact that the price will be more than $442. If it is the same as option #1, that would be beyond ________ (you fill in the blank)

[BCowan]

Marino we appreciate that you're a fan of Steiner Sports, it does mean a lot to have your continued support. Thank you for that.

I'm not sure why option #1 bothers you. We are offering this option because it is a game used ball from a save game from Mariano's final season. I find it to be a great collectible item and at that particular price point something that has gotten a lot of people in the game. I don't in anyway find our selling the ball misleading to a collector, gift buyer or fan. Our web listing for the item clearly states in caps "PLEASE NOTE: THIS IS NOT A GAME USED FINAL OUT BALL, OR GUARANTEED TO BE A BALL MARIANO ACTUALLY PITCHED. IT IS JUST GUARANTEED GAME USED BALL FROM THAT GAME." I don't see how this could possibly be misleading?

We had Mo sign and inscribe these balls with his save number because they are in fact game used balls from those respective games where the save was obtained. It's the same reason we had Derek Jeter sign and inscribe balls from DJ3K, do people assume that those are the actual ball Derek hit over the left field wall for 3,000? Lots of companies and teams add inscriptions to game used items, it's a very common practice.

Regarding your other questions I'd be happy to discuss, give me a call or shoot me an e-mail at your convenience. I don't want my participation on this forum to be viewed in an attempt to sell so I'd prefer not to discuss pricing. I'm simply here to enjoy some insight from collectors and answer questions where I can.

Brooks Cowan
Steiner Sports

[trsent]

What are these baseballs going to be worth in 5-10 years? Will anyone care?

[Mr. Zipper]

Hi

I am joining this discussion late. Found it through a search, but hopefully I can add a bit.

There seems to be some precedent for Rivera not carefully documenting his "last out" balls.

Earlier this year I examined this ball for purchase from another collector. When I researched save #460, I discovered it was in Oakland, so how could it be on a Yankee Stadium ball, which were only used in Yankee stadium?!? On the reverse side of the ball was a small "460" notation. The seller told me that Mo would write the save number on his final out balls after each save and signed them at a later date. And, for the most part, his true final out balls were kept by him and gifted to friends or given for charity fundraising. Typically he did not make them available through dealers.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/zipper68/Autographs/RiveraMariano-errorsaveball_zps8d53bc41.jpg~original (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/zipper68/media/Autographs/RiveraMariano-errorsaveball_zps8d53bc41.jpg.html)

In my view the signature and inscription is authentic, so it must be an error on Rivera's part. :confused: Any additional insight?

I have had this "save ball" in my collection for a few years, and it is my understanding the "save ball" means the same thing as "last out." That is, this is the actual ball he used to register the last out and record the save. If anyone knows differently, please chime in.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/zipper68/Autographs/RiveraMariano-SaveBall6-13-06-small.jpg~original (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/zipper68/media/Autographs/RiveraMariano-SaveBall6-13-06-small.jpg.html)

Regarding the game used balls that are generically inscribed "save #whatever"... experienced collectors understand that these are not the actual last out balls or even a ball necessarily thrown by Rivera, but rather a ball that was used at any time in a game where he registered that save. My concern is that less experienced buyers do not understand this distinction and the presence of these balls on the market actually detracts from the true 'save balls" which are quite uncommon on the open market. Given the pricing on some of these "save #whatever" balls, it appears that some sellers do not know the difference either, or they are simply being deceitful.

[dplettn]

I personally find use of the specific phrase "save ball" as highly likely to imply false use (final out) if/when someday it gets re-marketed without with the Steiner website disclaimer. For a company like Steiner there is certainly temptation to make somewhat scalable game used product look more sensational than it is. In my opinion, the date and "xxxth save game" would have been far more appropriate without endangering future unsuspecting secondary market buyers than "save ball". For a ball pitched by MO, the phrase is less troublesome but hazardous just the same.

This topic (save reference) is something I've put a lot of thought into lately as a collector of Aroldis Chapman actual "K" balls. Ultimately, I concluded only to refer at all to the save performance that the ball was part of in special situations. For example, "somersault save" is part of the inscription on the ball Chapman used to strike out Ryan Braun during that highly memorable save appearance. That ball was on display in the Reds Hall of Fame last season.

In contrast, there is no reference to a the save performance at all in the inscription on the ball Chapman used to strike out Puig in the first Cuban/Cuban showdown (the 27th Dodger out in Chappy's 74th save performance). The same ball incidentally was last used in the first pitch to the subsequent batter Adrian Gonzalez. Still no reference to 74th save, much less "save ball". The inscription only includes the pitch speeds because doing so isn't at all misleading. Chapman's Puig K ball was used for all three pitches.

Irregardless to how inappropriate I may think it is to use the specific phrase "save ball" on these Mo balls that weren't the last out, I do applaud Brooks Cowan and Steiner for at least discussing their choice here. Now, the onus on us members as stewards within the hobby is to help educate that certain phrases sometimes are and sometimes are not used in the most conscientious manner.

Also, some references to games are easier than others. While I don't take "somersault save" to infer final out as "save ball" does, some special games can be referenced even more easily, like "Opening Day". I think in the case of MO's achievement an inscription "xxxth save game" would be well justified. However, it reads less sensationally than "save ball".

Personally, I love inscriptions if and only if they are 100% accurate, planned and conducted with the highest standard of care. Just my two cents, of course.

[dplettn]

In contrast, there is no reference to a the save performance at all in the inscription on the ball Chapman used to strike out Puig in the first Cuban/Cuban showdown (the 27th Dodger out in Chappy's 74th save performance). The same ball incidentally was last used in the first pitch to the subsequent batter Adrian Gonzalez. Still no reference to 74th save, much less "save ball". The inscription only includes the pitch speeds because doing so isn't at all misleading. Chapman's Puig K ball was used for all three pitches.


Correction:

In contrast, there is no reference to a the save performance at all in the inscription on the ball Chapman used to strike out Puig in the first Cuban/Cuban showdown (the 25th not 27th Dodger out in Chappy's 74th save performance). The same ball incidentally was last used in the first pitch to the subsequent batter Adrian Gonzalez. Still no reference to 74th save, much less "save ball". The inscription only includes the pitch speeds because doing so isn't at all misleading. Chapman's Puig K ball was used for all three pitches.

[Mr. Zipper]

I personally find use of the specific phrase "save ball" as highly likely to imply false use (final out) if/when someday it gets re-marketed without with the Steiner website disclaimer. For a company like Steiner there is certainly temptation to make somewhat scalable game used product look more sensational than it is. In my opinion, the date and "xxxth save game" would have been far more appropriate without endangering future unsuspecting secondary market buyers than "save ball". For a ball pitched by MO, the phrase is less troublesome but hazardous just the same.

Just to clarify, the "save ball" displayed above from my collection is a "final out" ball and did not come from Steiner. It came from a source close to Rivera.

The Steiner game used balls are inscribed "Save #XX," NOT "save ball."

I do agree that if the Steiner examples were inscribed "Save ball," that would be highly deceptive and lead almost any collector to think they were actual final out balls. "Save #XX" is confusing enough... heaven forbid they start marketing "Save balls" that are not final out balls! :eek:

[cjw]

What are these baseballs going to be worth in 5-10 years? Will anyone care?

Care? I is my opinion that, people will not.