PDA

View Full Version : Should College Players Be Paid?



cohibasmoker
08-16-2013, 07:16 AM
I say NO for a couple of reasons;

1) What about the athletes in other Sports programs within the University? If the football and/or basketball players get paid, one cannot discriminate against the other athletes;

2) College players are already paid because they get scholarships. Seems to me the college players are doing well - look at last years NFL draft - bling all over the place - diamond earrings, custom gold and diamond watches, custom suits etc. Where did all this money come from? WAITING TABLES IN THEIR OFF TIME? Not too bad for a person coming out of college.

Besides, the major Universities need the money generated from their sports programs to help pay for the inflated salaries of college professors.

Just some thoughts,

Jim

coxfan
08-16-2013, 07:43 AM
Paying college athletes would cause the following major problems:

1) Only football and men's basketball make profits, and that money supports dozens of other sports (including college baseball, growing in popularity in many places, but making no profits anywhere.) Even the South Carolina Gamecocks, who from 2010-2012 were one of the best college baseball teams in history (and had strong fan support), lost $300,000 annually. The football team's huge profit covered it and dozens of other sports.

2) The competitive disparity between rich and poor programs would grow exponentially if athletes are paid, making it harder for the latter to survive, and reducing overall fan interest.

However, I favor these changes:

1) Loosening up absurdly strict NCAA rules, that don't allow athletes to accept even minor perks that might be available to other students (such as a free golf round.)

2) Realizing that memorabilia, including jerseys and trophies, have inherent economic value that can't be regulated. So the NCAA should loosen up on their sales.

xpress34
08-16-2013, 09:55 AM
I too say NO.

I had this conversation with Dave Logan (former CU Buff and former Denver Bronco - now On Air personality on 850 KOA in Denver) during an afternoon drive time segment.

Dave is all for them being paid because of the revenues their sports generate for the school.

I had one simple question for him... if student athlete's get paid, shouldn't other students be paid as well?

He said NO, because FOOTBALL brings revenue to the school.

I countered and asked him to look into Grants and fundings brought to schools by Research Students. When they find a worthwhile project, a Research Student's work can generate MILLIONS (from ONE student) in grants to a school to fund their project - why shouldn't those students get paid?

He had no answer.

I also said the Majority of Student Athletes anymore are on a FULL RIDE scholarship, so they are being paid - with an education. Unfortunately, too many Student Athletes fail themselves (and their schools help them) by cutting classes but getting covered, or only playing for a couple of years before declaring for the Draft. How come THOSE players aren't required to pay back their Scholarship Money when they don't graduate?

I personally think Scholarships should be reworked and given 1st to SCHOLARS, NOT ATHLETES who are looking for an education (Universities are Places of Learning - sports are a Secondary part to that), then 2nd to Low Income Athlete's who want to play there - not to families who can afford to send their sons and daughters to any school they want and not ever have to even think about a Student Loan.

The system is broken and needs to be fixed.

The other thing I have an issue with with current Student Athlete Scholarships is it limits even how much they can work or how much they can make from a job outside of school or sports and maintain their scholarship status.

Just my .02

jake33
08-16-2013, 10:25 AM
I would say let it be an open market and competition between the colleges would determine if college athletes got paid.

But overall, I say yes. I get the free education arguement. But, really if you are a starter for a D-1 majr college, you are in the top 1% of the people within that field. Look at the top 1% of the people in really any field (exception of some public works people like school teachers and firemen) and all of them make WAY more than the top 1% of atheletes int he world.

What do you think the top 1% of the CEO's, accountants, business owners, actors, clothing designers, and inventor's make? All all of those people don't lose everythign the second that their ACL gives out or Tomym John surgery doesn't heel correctly.

I never understand when people are upset at what pro atheletes make or when they hold out. There is limited moments in life that we all have leverage and can maximize our earning potential, what is wrong with legally capitalizing on that? When you are the best at something, you should have different rules both to your benefit and not to your benefit (see Riley Cooper on that one).

jake33
08-16-2013, 10:31 AM
Also, in regards to the argument of athletes in other sports not being worth as much if they were paid. That is true, but that is whi I feel it should just be an open market.

Well look at this country. Our best athletes don't play soccer, track and field, or volleyball. Making a broad generalization, the USA's best athletes in general play sports that end up paying the most in the long run anyways.

Can you imagine the outcry in an open market that $1.0M was paid to a football player really at any college. The outcry would come from science departments who are doign research, it wouldn't take much to have a public relations back lash. AAnd I say if a scchol wants to pay a kid and take on their own internal back lash, let them do that. Plus school would really put a bullseye on that kid as it would become public knowledge. Think that would be easy going to college socially when everyone knows that you have money and are treated differently both good and bad.

frikativ54
08-16-2013, 04:01 PM
1) What about the athletes in other Sports programs within the University? If the football and/or basketball players get paid, one cannot discriminate against the other athletes.

Agreed on this one. If college athletes are being paid, the women's softball players ought to make the same salaries as those who are playing football or men's basketball. However, in practice, I'm sure that paying athletes would only benefit the men in a few high profile sports.


Besides, the major Universities need the money generated from their sports programs to help pay for the inflated salaries of college professors.

What's the point of attacking college professors on a sports forum? I've known several profs who work at least 60 hours a week. Many do tough and taxing work, and a good portion deserve every penny they make. It's really only those at the very top who have six-figure salaries.

cohibasmoker
08-16-2013, 05:14 PM
Agreed on this one. If college athletes are being paid, the women's softball players ought to make the same salaries as those who are playing football or men's basketball. However, in practice, I'm sure that paying athletes would only benefit the men in a few high profile sports.

What's the point of attacking college professors on a sports forum? I've known several profs who work at least 60 hours a week. Many do tough and taxing work, and a good portion deserve every penny they make. It's really only those at the very top who have six-figure salaries.

Attacking college professors? I must have missed that. Whether or not you like it, salaries and wages are part of operating expenses. I guess college professors, like small business owners, are lucky that they are able to work 60 hours a week and like small business owners, deserve every penny they make.

Just some thoughts

xpress34
08-16-2013, 07:05 PM
All all of those people don't lose everythign the second that their ACL gives out or Tomym John surgery doesn't heel correctly.

I never understand when people are upset at what pro atheletes make or when they hold out. There is limited moments in life that we all have leverage and can maximize our earning potential, what is wrong with legally capitalizing on that? When you are the best at something, you should have different rules both to your benefit and not to your benefit (see Riley Cooper on that one).

Why should you have different rules? You choose to play sports, and just like Police, Fire and Military, you must accept personal responsibility for the inherent risks that come with that choice.

By your statement alone, Police, Fire and Military should also have different rules and be paid exorbitant salaries (which I would be all for for them) because any second, a fire or bullet or whatever could cause them to lose everything as well - including their lives.

mbrieve
08-16-2013, 08:45 PM
Agreed on this one. If college athletes are being paid, the women's softball players ought to make the same salaries as those who are playing football or men's basketball. However, in practice, I'm sure that paying athletes would only benefit the men in a few high profile sports.

Honest questions:

1. Should NBA and WNBA players be paid the same?
2. Should all professional athletes be paid the same, regardless of ability or value to their team?

GameUsedGR61
08-17-2013, 12:53 AM
i am on the fence with this issue. i think of all of you make great points that are tough to argue but I think the players should get something in return.

i mean if the schools and the ncaa can make money off these players, I don't see why the players can't. I am not saying to give them a salary but I would loosen some of the rules. Perhaps let them make money for public events or for autograph signings. Maybe give them a stipend every week where some can be used on campus while the other can be used for personal use

I am not sure if anyone caught that ESPN 30 for 30 documentary on the Fab Five and I remember Jalen Rose complaining how the University of Michigan was selling their jerseys, their shoes, their shirts, and posters with the fab five moniker attached to it.

cohibasmoker
08-17-2013, 07:49 AM
i am on the fence with this issue. i think of all of you make great points that are tough to argue but I think the players should get something in return.

i mean if the schools and the ncaa can make money off these players, I don't see why the players can't. I am not saying to give them a salary but I would loosen some of the rules. Perhaps let them make money for public events or for autograph signings. Maybe give them a stipend every week where some can be used on campus while the other can be used for personal use

I am not sure if anyone caught that ESPN 30 for 30 documentary on the Fab Five and I remember Jalen Rose complaining how the University of Michigan was selling their jerseys, their shoes, their shirts, and posters with the fab five moniker attached to it.

I think the players are getting something in return - a education and/or 4-year free ride on tuition, room and board. Whether or not the players take advantage of the education part of the deal is up to the individual.

Let's say you work for Apple and you're part of the research and development team. You're hired from a pool of thousands of applicants ad you're paid a salary. As part of the development team, your team develops and new device and apple sells it and makes a profit. Are you entitled to a share of the profits? Aren't you already paid for your service? Although I don't agree with what Michigan did with the memorabilia I can understand it. The school took a chance on certain athletes and it paid off. Would Jalen Rose complain if the term "Fave Five" didn't happen and they were just five run of the mill players? Below is a link to the University of Michigan tuition fees.

http://www.ro.umich.edu/tuition/

In closing, whether one likes it or not, schools are the same as any business in America - they are just offering a different product - that's all. They have operating expenses just like businesses and for some schools, they use athletic teams to help fund the company. In lieu of money, the schools are offering a free education. And, when you compare the cost of education to the average household salary in America (by the way, University Professors make twice the AVERAGE salary and are off for 2-3 Months a year), its not a bad (UNTAXED) wage for a kid going to college.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States

Just some thoughts

frikativ54
08-17-2013, 10:05 AM
Honest questions:

1. Should NBA and WNBA players be paid the same?
2. Should all professional athletes be paid the same, regardless of ability or value to their team?

1. Ideally, yes. But I doubt that the WNBA can afford to pay its players on par with what the men's NBA can provide monetarily. BTW - It's only fair to call it the MNBA and the WNBA.

2. No. Sorry if I am missing something, but I don't see how this is relevant to the discussion.

Another point: As for colleges, they are institutions that are dedicated to fairness and equality. Thus, since they are bound by Title IX, they cannot offer more for the men and not provide it for the women. If they were to pay men more, it would just reinforce that male athletes are more valuable than female athletes. This message should not be sent in institutions dedicated to parity.

frikativ54
08-17-2013, 10:12 AM
(by the way, University Professors make twice the AVERAGE salary and are off for 2-3 Months a year).

FYI, I know no university professor that takes summers off. While some don't have to teach for a couple months of the year, they are busy doing research, writing papers and books, and presenting at conferences. Being a college professor is no cakewalk, and in many cases, it requires eleven years of higher education, numerous publications, and having taught classes for years.

frikativ54
08-17-2013, 10:21 AM
Attacking college professors? I must have missed that. Whether or not you like it, salaries and wages are part of operating expenses. I guess college professors, like small business owners, are lucky that they are able to work 60 hours a week and like small business owners, deserve every penny they make.

Just some thoughts

A certain amount of luck is involved, in terms of being a college professor. There's the natural ability that cannot be taught, there are often parents helping with tuition, there is the innate ability to be able to focus on a narrow topic for years. These are not things that everybody has, and in many instances, they cannot be taught. Of course, there is a lot of effort and self-sacrifice that goes into such a career, but there were people along the way that helped them get to where they are.

BTW - I don't understand why you are singling out college professors. If we want to talk about bloated salaries, why not discuss athletic directors and coaches, not to mention university administrators?

cohibasmoker
08-17-2013, 12:25 PM
1. Ideally, yes. But I doubt that the WNBA can afford to pay its players on par with what the men's NBA can provide monetarily. BTW - It's only fair to call it the MNBA and the WNBA.

2. No. Sorry if I am missing something, but I don't see how this is relevant to the discussion.

Another point: As for colleges, they are institutions that are dedicated to fairness and equality. Thus, since they are bound by Title IX, they cannot offer more for the men and not provide it for the women. If they were to pay men more, it would just reinforce that male athletes are more valuable than female athletes. This message should not be sent in institutions dedicated to parity.

Fairness and equity? Is it not true that there are far and away more male teachers than female teachers? Is it not true that more students attend male dominated sports than female dominated sports? Whether you like it or not, that's the way it is.

Back to the topic - I wonder why Jalen Rose didn't attend a community college instead of a major University? I think it may be because he used the University as much as the University used him. Jalen Rose got far and away more exposure going to a major University than he would have gotten at a smaller college and that related into a career in the NBA and later on ESPN.

cohibasmoker
08-17-2013, 12:49 PM
A certain amount of luck is involved, in terms of being a college professor. There's the natural ability that cannot be taught, there are often parents helping with tuition, there is the innate ability to be able to focus on a narrow topic for years. These are not things that everybody has, and in many instances, they cannot be taught. Of course, there is a lot of effort and self-sacrifice that goes into such a career, but there were people along the way that helped them get to where they are.

BTW - I don't understand why you are singling out college professors. If we want to talk about bloated salaries, why not discuss athletic directors and coaches, not to mention university administrators?

Are you talking about small business owners or college professors?

Why am I singling out college Professors? In a previous thread you mentioned fairness and equality. The #1 operating expense at any University are salaries. College Professors make twice the wages as a average American family. This relates to high tuition costs so, you tell me, how is it fair and equal if most Americans cannot afford to attend a major University because of the high cost of tuition? And, if folks do decide to attend, they walk away with exorbitant student loans. Speaking of student loans, did you know that figure just surpassed 1 trillion dollars?

How does it relate to this thread? Athletes don't pay - they get scholarships. It's amazing to me that in certain circles, folks have plenty to say about what others make but rarely question what college Professors make - Did you ever ask any of your Professors what their salary was?

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/07/student-loan-debt-tops-1-trillion-94316.html

As for athletic directors, coaches and administrators, don't they hold teaching certificates?

Just some thoughts

Dewey2007
08-17-2013, 07:32 PM
I work at a major university and not all college professors get paid big money. You have to be tenured and you have to have worked for some time to have a salary on the higher side. Junior faculty's starting salaries is not as much as you think it is and university's use a lot of lecturer's and graduate students to teach courses and they are not paid as much as regular faculty.

Also, the #1 operating expense at a university is definitely salaries but you also need people other then professors to run a university. The university I'm at employs the most people in the Bay Area, I believe, other then Kaiser Permanente so it's a huge operation.





Are you talking about small business owners or college professors?

Why am I singling out college Professors? In a previous thread you mentioned fairness and equality. The #1 operating expense at any University are salaries. College Professors make twice the wages as a average American family. This relates to high tuition costs so, you tell me, how is it fair and equal if most Americans cannot afford to attend a major University because of the high cost of tuition? And, if folks do decide to attend, they walk away with exorbitant student loans. Speaking of student loans, did you know that figure just surpassed 1 trillion dollars?

How does it relate to this thread? Athletes don't pay - they get scholarships. It's amazing to me that in certain circles, folks have plenty to say about what others make but rarely question what college Professors make - Did you ever ask any of your Professors what their salary was?

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/07/student-loan-debt-tops-1-trillion-94316.html

As for athletic directors, coaches and administrators, don't they hold teaching certificates?

Just some thoughts

dscards
08-17-2013, 09:00 PM
Why am I singling out college Professors? In a previous thread you mentioned fairness and equality. The #1 operating expense at any University are salaries. College Professors make twice the wages as a average American family.

Logically, the average American doesn't have a Master's and Doctorate in their field, unlike college professors. Their higher educational achievement leads to their higher salary.


As a college athlete myself, I gotta say it would be great to get paid. However, I'm receiving over $30,000 a year in free tuition, room and board, meal plans, etc. Over the course of 4 years, that equates to over $120,000 in return for playing baseball.

For those in favor of paying athletes, how much? What is reasonable? Should academic achievement be factored in (athletes with higher grades get a better salary?)

russyurk
08-17-2013, 09:02 PM
Ok, I probably have a totally different take seeing that I worked at the NCAA for eight years, 2004-2012. (For this argument athletes are Major DI FB and BB athletes.). These athletes are compensated with not only tuition but room, board, coaching & training, gear and travel...pretty good deal if you ask me. And let's not forget, nobody is forcing these kids to got to an NCAA institution, they are going under their own free will and know the deal when they sign their NLI. If they don't like it they can go play JUCO or NAIA ball or for the hoops guys, go overseas. Schools do walk a fine line when selling jerseys, etc but those funds also contribute to the enhanced practice facilities, weight rooms, other sports, etc.

The point has also been brought up that you would never be able to only pay male athletes, a Title IX lawsuit would be filed almost immediately. The NBA/WNBA argument is not relevant as they are a free market business that does not receive state funding.

The point about loosening rules is a fair point but those rules are there because at some point in time a school went too far and regulation became necessary. I often hear that they should be able to get a free "fill in the blank". The reality is what is the threshold for that "free" thing? A free round of golf becomes $250, which becomes a car, which becomes god knows what. The only way to regulate is an all or nothing threshold. If Johnny Football wants to make money signing autographs, drop out of school, hit the show circuit and take your chances in the draft next April.

Just my take as someone who has worked in intercollegiate athletics.

jake33
08-18-2013, 06:30 AM
Also the top 1% of workers in the Police, Fire and Military all usually graduate to higehr paying less dangerous positions within their fields. I am related to a fire cheif and a Police captain and they both have massively different rules and risks that the entry level workers in those fields. So yes, as I said before, the top 1% of people DO have different rules, because their value is grows higher with their skill level.

onlyalbert
08-18-2013, 03:02 PM
i am on the fence with this issue. i think of all of you make great points that are tough to argue but I think the players should get something in return.

i mean if the schools and the ncaa can make money off these players, I don't see why the players can't. I am not saying to give them a salary but I would loosen some of the rules. Perhaps let them make money for public events or for autograph signings. Maybe give them a stipend every week where some can be used on campus while the other can be used for personal use

I am not sure if anyone caught that ESPN 30 for 30 documentary on the Fab Five and I remember Jalen Rose complaining how the University of Michigan was selling their jerseys, their shoes, their shirts, and posters with the fab five moniker attached to it.

I guess if Rose was so upset he should've transfered then. A free 100K education isn't enough? While other undergrads work their butts off flipping burgers to pay their tuition these "poor" athletes are playing a game on national tv, flying around the country, staying in nice hotels and eating for free.