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View Full Version : Don Mattingly....the manager



Puig66
08-10-2013, 08:49 PM
Hi forum, my first post.

A friend told me about this site several years ago and I finally joined. I look forward to making many friends here.

I am from Los Angeles and a baseball fanatic. Naturally I love the Dodgers (and even have a soft spot in my heart for the Angels). I've been discussing something with my friends and am baffled by their indecision on this issue. Feel free to share your opinion as I am interested in hearing from the fans who really understand the game.

The Dodgers had a 15 game win streak on the road going, but were losing to the Cardinals 2-1 late in the game Wednesday. This streak was a living, breathing, growing franchise record with every win, hadn't been done since 1924, and was two away from the all-time MLB record of 17 set in 190-something. It's the top of the 7th. Juan Uribe leads the inning off with a sharp double! We got the tying run on second, nobody out. Here come the boys in BLUE!

What do you do if you are managing the Los Angeles Dodgers with your now record 15-game road win on the line? Do you play this inning for ONE RUN and a TIE, essentially starting the game over and hoping for another opportunity later? Or do you let the next batter, your number 8 batter, swing away in the hopes of a BIGGER INNING? Because after all, you KNOW you're going to be pinch hitting that number nine (pitching) spot. Then, you've got your TOP OF THE ORDER!!

Mattingly calls for Punto to bunt Uribe to third!! In doing so, he consciously is HANDING AN OUT to the Cardinals. Even if the sac bunt is successful, now you only have 2 outs to score the run, AND, you've just eliminated 33% of your inning without ANY guarantee you'll score that run!

There is a long-standing FACT in baseball that on a base hit, a runner on second has almost JUST as much chance of scoring as a runner on third. Isn't that why they refer to a runner on second as "A RUNNER IN SCORING POSITION"? So WHY reduce your chances of SCORING that run by 33% by handing an OUT to your opponent? For the chance of ONE fly ball to tie the game? Why not take a chance at THREE ATTEMPTS to produce a base hit, or better yet, let the Dodgers swing away in the hopes of scoring maybe 2, 3, or MORE RUNS? It's the DODGERS...currently on a 15-game road slaughterhouse tour!!! They got their LEAD-OFF BATTER on SECOND with NOBODY OUT!!? They're playing 85% win-ratio BASEBALL IN THE LAST 40 GAMES TO THAT POINT!

But Mattingly, adult diapers firmly in place under his Dodger whites, gives his third base coach the old "finger-burried-to-the-second-knuckle-in-the-nostril" sign to have Punto BUNT Uribe to third! (This is the part where as a Dodger fan, you realize the incompetence of Joe Torre hasn't rubbed off from the park yet) Hey Don! Maybe this is the way they play it in New York! But we have a TEAM going on here! We have PUIG! Gonzalez! We got some serious BATS! Let the boys do what they do best...let em RAKE!!!

So Punto, swallowing his regurgitated lunch awash in the back of his throat as he sees the sign given him, lays an egg and bounces the sac-bunt off home plate, handing the Cardinal catcher a plump summer peach which he happily plucks off the tree at eye level, and throws out Juan at third by about two acres.

Man on SECOND in SCORING position with NOBODY out and trailing by one late in the game, just turned into man on FIRST, ONE out, NOBODY in scoring position, but now looking at a FORCE-OUT INNING-ENDING RALLY KILLING DOUBLE-PLAY scenario, should a ground ball be hit.

Atta boy, Mattingly. How in the WORLD have the Dodgers done so well to this point?

In fact, a ground ball was ultimately hit, and the inning ended on a double-play. Opening double...WASTED. Chances of scoring the tying run? Hamstrung with a sharp knife like a scene out of "Rambo". Any chance of a big inning rally by a HOT TEAM? Taken out by Drone fire on it's first movement. And the worst part? All from friendly fire.

15 game road winning streak? SHOT IN THE HEAD at POINT BLANK RANGE. That's not the kind of "execution" we Dodger fans are looking for, Donnie.

Do any of you feel Mattingly did the right thing here? I go to a LOT of Dodger games. I talk to other fans. It's fairly unanimous amongst us. There was a reason Donnie baseball was seriously close to being fired. The man is a poor manager. I have seen him mismanage the pitching staff to no end, and his musical chair routine with the players is old too. The Dodgers were in last place. No life. No "spark". Just Mattingly at the wheel.

If Puig wasn't brought up when he was, Mattingly is unemployed today. Puig single-handedly jump-started this team and saved Mattingly's job. The other Dodger players, stumbling through their halfhearted efforts because of the lack of fire lit in them under Mattingly, was introduced to PUIG ball. They have responded accordingly, and what a thrill it is!

You don't bat .517 in spring training on a fluke! Thank you MATT KEMP for getting injured when you did. It opened the door for Dodger brass to call up our saviour.

The rest is history, playing out for all to see. Where it ends? I don't know, but I'm guessing with L.A.'s first World Series title since '88. There is, however, one looming landmine that could derail the Dodgers. And it worries me.

Don Mattingly.

Anyone who cares to comment, I welcome your responses and look forward to the discussion.

Bram

jbsportstuff
08-10-2013, 09:20 PM
Sorry....I would GLADLY trade you managers. you can have Dusty. UGH

Jags Fan Dan
08-10-2013, 09:35 PM
Bram,
We will have to check, but you may have the record for longest first post ever!:D I will be brief, however: There are a lot of ways to score a runner from third with one out.

Mark17
08-11-2013, 02:17 AM
Bram,
We will have to check, but you may have the record for longest first post ever!:D I will be brief, however: There are a lot of ways to score a runner from third with one out.

I agree with Jags. When you're at the bottom of your batting order, playing for one run makes sense to me. If you were anywhere else in the lineup, I would let my batters swing away.

I haven't been following the Dodgers at all, but as a Twins fan I'm somewhat familiar with Punto, and frankly, he bats eighth for a reason. I'd trust him more with a bunt than letting him try to hit. He's a career .247 hitter with zero power, not even likely to hit a double let alone anything more substantial. Figure you're going to get an out from Punto, so at least make it worthwhile.

I'm curious why you blame Mattingly on this one. If I'm a marginal player like Punto, who can barely hit, and I'm in the National League, I'm going to make darn sure I can consistently lay down a sacrifice bunt. I mean, you don't have to be Ted Williams to be able to perfect that skill.

You said the next batter hit a ground ball. Well, of course things would be different, but for the sake of argument, was it a grounder basically up the middle? Because if so, that would've scored the runner from third.

.

Puig66
08-11-2013, 03:36 PM
Hello guys. Thanks for the comments. I write on other blogs so sometimes I do get a bit wordy.

I blame Mattingly because if you break down all of the possibilities of what can happen with a guy on second base with nobody out, 70+% of the time, you fail. But you have THREE SHOTS at 30% success! Not TWO shots with a diminished chance of a big inning as a chaser. So why GIVE the other team an advantage by handing them an out? And remember, it was the 7th inning. If it had been the 9th inning, we aren't having this discussion.

If they had been successful, you really only have ONE chance at a fly ball to score him. Why are you playing for a "tie" in the 7th inning anyways? I don't like the whole managerial philosophy. It's almost like he's telling his team "Hey, we're not good enough to hang with these guys, so let's try to score ONE AND HANG ON." It's not like the Dodgers are anemic in the scoring category? Also, there always is the possibility of failing. And when that happens as it did here with a historic streak on the line, it lets the air out of a team. A manager shouldn't be doing things that works against the team.

Baseball is a numbers game. In my opinion, the Dodgers don't need a manager who over-thinks with his premeditated by-the-book "small ball" managerial style.

It's not the end of the world, but it is an end to a record streak. And that sucks. It's not often when your team is performing on a level that's breaking records. And that is why I felt compelled to post. But most importantly, it's a telescope into the pattern of thinking this guy running the team operates by. And that's what has me concerned. With all due respect, you guys don't watch Mattingly on a daily basis like us Dodger fans do. Puig rescued him from his own demise. Puig has eliminated a LOT of the need for active managing to be taking place! And that bodes well for the Dodgers. I'm just praying I never see my concerns come to fruition once the Dodgers reach the post season. The less Mattingly, the better!!

Bram

Puig66
10-12-2013, 02:13 PM
So here we are in the NLCS.

I started this post long ago to express my dismay over Mattingly's horrible mangerial ability. I knew in my heart the ONLY thing that could derail this Dodger team from their first world championship in 25 years...was Don Mattingly.

Game 1

Dodgers Zack Greinke is dealing like a champ all night. He pitches 8 outstanding innings, sets his personal record of 10 strike outs in a post season game. It was a 104 pitch GEM.

However the Cardinals hold strong and we are tied in the eight. But they are straining and now into their 4th pitcher. Adrian Gonzalez, the Dodgers clean-up hitter walks to start off the inning. Man on fist, no outs.

What does Donnie do? He pulls out his "Little League Manual" from his back pocket and removes A-GONE from this important game for a pinch runner.

Instantly, like he's bleeding from my mind, Cal Ripken Jr. shares my thoughts: "I don't know about this move. What if the Dodgers don't score? You just removed one of your best hitters from the game." Yeah, but if we steal a base, we got three shots at scoring him, right? And with set-up man Brain Wilson waiting in the bullpen along with lights-out Kenley Jansen to close it out, you guys are O.K. with Mattingly's brilliance, right?

Wake up call: It's October 11th. This is play-off baseball. Not a game against the San Diego Padres in May. This is for keeps. We're down to the 4 elite teams in baseball. It's show up or go home time. Mistakes made at this point are fatal.

O.K., alright. Back to Donnie Baseball. We put in our speedster Dee Gordon to steal that base. Here we go Dodgers!!

But something strange happened. There was no steal attempt made? Huh? There was no "hit-n-run" called. WHAT? Within two minutes time, Puig grounded into a force-out at second, and Juan Uribe hit into a double play. Inning over. A-Gone out. No run scored scored. NO ATTEMPT TO ADVANCE THE RUNNER THAT WE PULLED A-GONE FOR. All there was the screaming silence of Don Mattingly's brilliance hitting us in the face life a Muhammad Ali right cross in his prime. Quick, painful, damaging.

All year, to anyone that has followed the Dodgers, we witnessed their greatness. They would overcome these Mattingly snafu's. All year long they would win DESPITE Mattingly, not BECAUSE of Mattingly. But I knew he would hurt this team eventually. And at this level...Mattingly is out of his league. His lack of possessing a "feel" for the game is apparent. His ineptness at managing as a winner, stripped naked for all to see. His basic ability to THINK ABOUT WHAT MAY HAPPEN IF THE GAME DOESN'T END WITH HIS LITTLE-LEAGUE MANAGERIAL BY-THE-NUMBERS STYLE DOESN'T WORK....is going to end the Dodgers season prematurely.

To further illustrate my point, let's go back to the game. The Dodgers and Cards trade great pitching efforts and now we're in the 10th, still locked up at 2-2. Michael Young is now in for Dee Gordon after his wasted appearance to pinch run, which he performed to perfection in his force-out at second sprint! So Young gets up in what would have been Adrian's at-bat in the 10th with Mark Ellis standing on third. You see, Mark hit a triple with one out. Hanley Ramirez stepped to the plate. But with Adrian Gonzalez out of the GAME, the Cardinals, no longer WORRIED about his spot in the line-up, choose to intentionally walk Hanley Ramirez. Of course they would, because you have MICHAEL YOUNG now there to contend with, with the added bonus of a double play possibility now. Do they walk Hanley to get to Adrian if he's still in the game? Doubtful. If they did, do they ALSO walk Adrian to get to Puig with the bases loaded and 1 OUT? Highly doubtful.

No, because of Mattingly's brilliance, they are looking at a possible double play ball to get out of the inning, and facing MICHAEL YOUNG who MATTINGLY is now asking to BEAT THE CARDINALS instead of our CLUTCH CLEAN-UP HITTING STAR, ADRIAN GONZALEZ. Geezuz, someone shoot me in the head, I can't take this torture any longer!!!!!!!!!

O.K., alright!!!!!!!!!! Back to the game. After all, the Dodgers are about to take the LEAD HERE!!! Men on the corners, one out....HERE WE GO DODGERS!!!!!!!! C'MON MICHAEL YOUNG, YOU can DO IT....HERE COMES THE PITCH....OH YEAH, GO...Ah....OMG


He hits a weak shallow fly ball to Beltran, who throws out Mark Ellis trying to tag and score. Double play.

So you Mattingly fans are screaming at me. "Hey Bram, the Dodgers still need to EXECUTE! You can't HANG THAT on Mattingly!!" Fair enough. Let's forget about the fact Adrian Gonzalez wasn't in there to punish the Cardinals, and move on.

Top of the 12th, STILL locked in a 2-2 tie. Carl Crawford starts the Dodgers inning off with a single. Man on first, a speedster, nobody out!! HERE WE GO DODGERS!!!!! It's the TOP OF THE ORDER!!!!!! YEAH BABY!!!!! THIS IS IT!!!

Dynamic Donnie steps in the pile of s%@t and calls the shot: Mark Ellis, bunt over Crawford to second. "Yeah", Donnie says, "I know about the 'Why hand them the out' argument....just do what I tell you to do! I am not thinking about letting you guys that have won all year long...operate for a big inning......I'm DONNIE BASEBALL! I PLAY LIKE MY MENTOR TORRE TAUGHT ME. It's ALL ABOUT SMALL BALL. It's about FOLLOWING THE BOOK! That way, if we lose, I can argue I did it by the BOOK, and I keep my JOB! Now....BUNT HIM OVER, and don't FAIL ME!"

And this.....after the Juan Uribe bunt fiasco that fortunately ended with Uribe showing the world JUST HOW BAD Mattingly's managerial prowess is...with the Dodgers winning the NLDS with Juan 2-strike BOMB. You'd think Donnie would LEARN from something like that.

Mark Ellis squares to bunt, and does so as a consummate professional baseball player. Carl Crawford takes second. One out. Hanley Ramirez coming to the plate, that dangerous, immensely talented awesome hitter that he is. In fact he's so good, everyone knows it. Everyone! Well, with one exception. Don Mattingly. You see, Don Mattingly has now left first base open.....after handing the Cardinals a free out.

The Cardinals, watching in their absolute giddy amazement, can barely hold back their excitement. The camera man for TBS, also having difficulty keeping the camera from shaking as he laughs his ASS off at the stupidity, pans over to Cardinals manager Matheny, who after being on screen for all of .4 seconds, HOLDS UP 4 FINGERS.

Hanley was NEVER going to get a chance to swing at one pitch. Mattingly, again, in all his brilliance, after taking one of the Dodgers best hitters out of a National League Championship Series Game 1 in the 8th inning, has now just removed ANOTHER of the Dodgers BEST HITTERS from action by BUNTING HIM A PLACE TO BE PLACED. Complete utter lunacy. Grounds to be fired,in my opinion.

Oh, but WAIT....THE DODGERS STILL HAVE their number 4 HITTER COMING UP!!!! MAN ON FIRST AND SECOND....ONLY ONE OUT!!!! GO DODGERS!!!!!! C'MON A-GONE, YOU CAN DO..IT.....UM....wait! He's OUT OF THE GAME!!!! OH GOD, PLEASE TELL ME THIS ISN'T HAPPENING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh yes. It's happening alright. It's Dodger baseball under Donnie. And it was bound to cost us sooner or later.

So once again, Mattingly is asking Michael Young to beat the Cardinals. After all, this is why we went out and GOT the guy!!! He's a professional hitter! Forget the fact he's 37 and SPENT.....he can DO IT!! Forget about the fact he's hitting under .100 since he came to the Dodgers.....HERE WE GO DODGERS!!!

The PITCH!!!!!!..........

Ground ball to short. Double play.

WAIT. It gets better Dodger fans!!!! The real pain hasn't come yet!!!! Just take another heavy SWIG from that Johnny Walker bottle, and sit TIGHT!!!

It's now the bottom of the 13th, and Withrow, into his second inning with ALL of his rookie experience has one out. Base hit. OK, let's get a DOUBLE PLAY ourselves!!! Oops, a walk. Now we're in trouble. Beltran is up. Now Mattingly panics and decides he had better stop the damage and put in the closer to get us out. After all, that's what the BOOK says to do. It's about survival now, not waiting until we get that lead.

Beltran is a switch hitter Mattingly. It doesn't MATTER what side of the mound the ball is being delivered from, and it doesn't MATTER who is pitching. Beltran is a long-time veteran star player. He rips a line drive down the first base line...GAME OVER....as it bounces like a cartoon happy face laughing at Mattingly, all the way to the wall, in the process ripping the heart out of the Dodger closer as he walks off the field, NOW clinging onto some doubt as to being a lights-out closer. Yeah, THAT will work to the Dodgers favor going forward.

In how many ways can a bad manager destroy a great team?

Look, I am as big a Dodgers fan as there is. I am sickened by the frustrating MESS I saw occur last night in regards to how this team is being managed. I pray the Dodgers can shake off this latest Mattingly display of baseball ignorance, but at what point does it do them in? Can they survive another game managed like this?

I guess we'll see. I know I am praying they do.

Seriously.......GO DODGERS!!! Do it for us fans!!!!

Bram

godwulf
10-12-2013, 03:58 PM
The Dodgers are cursed, and will fall to the Cards, because they angered the baseball kachinas when they peed in our pool. These spirits have caused the man Mattingly to lose all reason. The Dodgers' only hope, at this point, is to make a solemn pilgrimage to Chase Field and toss an unwrapped Baby Ruth candy bar into the deep end. So it is written.

Dach0sen0ne
10-12-2013, 05:58 PM
Dodgers down 0-2...

coxfan
10-13-2013, 10:42 AM
I won't get into the Mattingly discussion, but I'll note that good managers must be willing to take risks. If they work out, they're a genius. Remember when Bobby Cox made the high-risk move of putting in an unknown backup catcher, who'd spent most of the year in the minors, With the Braves down 2-1 in game 7 of the 1992 NLCS with 2 outs in the 9th? If the gamble hadn't paid off brilliantly, Cox would never have heard the end of it. But it was still a gamble that would've failed more often than not, though it succeeded historically in that one case.

Casey Stengel was unsuccessful as a manager with the Boston braves and with the new Mets, sandwiched around the Yankee years. That prompted one player to say:" I knew Casey both before and after he was a genius."

flaco1801
10-13-2013, 06:37 PM
i would have done the same....runner on third with 1 out....passed ball/wild pitch, sac fly.... Me, i like to walk the batter and go for double play...you think by bunting u give up 33% of scoring, i dont think so, sounds good but it aint so...my 2 cents..

jbsportstuff
10-19-2013, 02:56 PM
i would have done the same....runner on third with 1 out....passed ball/wild pitch, sac fly.... Me, i like to walk the batter and go for double play...you think by bunting u give up 33% of scoring, i dont think so, sounds good but it aint so...my 2 cents..
+1. I think the focus should be more on Puig learning to play as a team player and to start throwing to the cut off man. His defense in the playoffs was less than impressive.

Puig66
11-08-2013, 09:39 PM
Some time has passed and I went back and read some of your comments. Interesting responses. I point out simple by-the-book actions taken by Mattingly, and I read talk of good managers must be willing to "take risks". I couldn't agree more.

And I want to thank you for supporting my argument.

Where was any "risk" that Mattingly took? He played it by the book, small-ball all the way. No shot at anything. Just mindless "move-the-runner-over".

I came back on here to point out something. Did any of you see Mattingly sitting in the post season press conference with GM Ned Colletti?

Here you go....

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/mlb/dodgers-manager-don-mattingly-unsure-if-he-will-return-next-season?ymd=20131021&content_id=63208620&vkey=news_mlb

And here's the funniest comment of all. Mattingly:

"It puts me in a spot where everything I do is questioned. Because I'm basically trying out, auditioning to say, `Can you manage a team or not manage?' It's a tough spot. To me, it gets to that point where three years in you either know or you don't."

So essentially, little Donnie, sitting obviously far away from Colletti, arms crossed while he pouts like a little girl, is asking why he is not being rewarded for failure?

You see, that's a huge problem in today's society. There is this enormous sense of "entitlement" that all these sports figures and stars carry with them.

Don, you just mismanaged the Dodgers into a losing NLCS that you should have won. But now, you're "entitled" to a three year or more contract because you've proven, what, exactly? That you are a laugh a minute with runners on base because you're an EXPERT at taking your best hitters OUT OF ACTION one way or the other?

I just read today that the Dodgers are actually contemplating given Mattingly an extension. I'm hoping some of the players, the other coaches, and the higher-ups that hand around the Dodgers can smarten this chump up before next season starts. Or Vegas odds, opening at seasons end calling out the Dodgers as 5-1 favorites to win the 2014 World Series will take one in the shorts.

Bram

onlyalbert
11-08-2013, 11:34 PM
Bottom line is the players have to perform on the field. The Dodgers didn't and the Cards did.....until the WS.