Is this Helmet a gamer or replica ?

[Claymore]

Do you think this is an 1980's/early nineties game used helmet ?

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s202/VST502L/DSCF2566_zps84474bc3.jpg (http://s153.photobucket.com/user/VST502L/media/DSCF2566_zps84474bc3.jpg.html)


http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s202/VST502L/DSCF2568_zps1c7c996f.jpg (http://s153.photobucket.com/user/VST502L/media/DSCF2568_zps1c7c996f.jpg.html)


http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s202/VST502L/DSCF2572_zpse9f1b46f.jpg (http://s153.photobucket.com/user/VST502L/media/DSCF2572_zpse9f1b46f.jpg.html)


http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s202/VST502L/DSCF2575_zps9f53649e.jpg (http://s153.photobucket.com/user/VST502L/media/DSCF2575_zps9f53649e.jpg.html)


http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s202/VST502L/DSCF2577_zps6280bc24.jpg (http://s153.photobucket.com/user/VST502L/media/DSCF2577_zps6280bc24.jpg.html)


http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s202/VST502L/DSCF2582_zps354f399e.jpg (http://s153.photobucket.com/user/VST502L/media/DSCF2582_zps354f399e.jpg.html)


http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s202/VST502L/DSCF2588_zpsd26fdce9.jpg (http://s153.photobucket.com/user/VST502L/media/DSCF2588_zpsd26fdce9.jpg.html)


http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s202/VST502L/DSCF2589_zps496043cf.jpg (http://s153.photobucket.com/user/VST502L/media/DSCF2589_zps496043cf.jpg.html)

Thanks !!

[tom1315]

I think a replica...the facemask shows light wear. No NFL shield on the left rear...the rear bumper "RAIDERS" seems to be new...very bright and not aged...other items to look for...any numerals on the facemask clips? What are the three capital letters imprinted on the inside of the facemask near a cheek pad? Any recertification decals evident near a cheek pad and if so what year(s) showing?

I have college and NFL gamers and have seen the padding in yours match the padding in mine...I believe an early 1990's Riddell lid and clips seem similar to a 1994 Maryland Terps Riddell helmet I own.

The questions above are a starting point for what season(s) the helmet could have been worn.

The shell shows some scars...how did you obtain?

Tom

Go Pack! NC State 1981 graduate

[bgakladd]

I sold it to him....I bought it several years ago on Ebay and it was listed as a late 1980's preseason or tryout camp Los Angeles Raiders helmet. So I bought it. Anyone know for sure let me know.

[bgakladd]

I sold it to him....I bought it several years ago on Ebay and it was listed as a late 1980's preseason or tryout camp Los Angeles Raiders helmet. So I bought it. Anyone know for sure let me know.
Dave, correct me on this, but if I remember right the clips should have either 87 or 88 inside a little circle on the clips and check the stamped date code inside the helmet under the padding, it was 88 I believe. It has the correct warning label from the period and the rear bumper decal is aged though the picture shows other wise. No NFL logo shield was on the helmet for that time period. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Claymore]

Hi guys, i only posted this as there is no COA and i was hoping to get more information on the helmet from the experts on here !! :D

the front clips have 88 and 89 on them..

the face mask is a Schutt and the only capital letters on it are DIH

the only other sticker inside the helmet is white and says inspected by.. ( the rest of the sticker has been removed )

the main concern i have is that the paintwork is not the greatest as it has a couple of runs, there are a few shadows in the paintwork and some dirt under the paint..

so were the helmets in those days roughly painted like that or were they all meant to be perfect ?

[Claymore]

The only players i can find that wore #23 around that time was Ethan Horton, Derrick Crudup and Sam Seale !!

but i cant find many photos of them playing to try and photo match the helmet !! :(

[tom1315]

The letters "DIH" means the facemask was manufactured April 1998. Take a look at game photos on Getty and AP Images at 1998 and 1999 Raiders games...see what the decal placement looks like on the players' helmets in games versus yours. Look at team rosters and see who wore #23.

Paint schemes during those times were not very shiny is my recollection...you could have a real gamer...let us know what you learn. There is an older hemet for sale on the JOSports website...see what year(s) it may have been worn and look at the warning decal on it versus yours.

Sometimes just a Google of Oakland Raiders helmets will pull up a close up you can use and compare to yours.

Tom

Go Pack! NC State 1981 graduate

[Claymore]

It could of had a later facemask put on it by someone for whatever reason :confused:

the player wearing #23 in 1999 was Darien Gordon but his facemask was slightly different !!

if someone has any pics of the players mentioned then that would be great but here is the only pic i can find of Sam Seale playing in 1992 !!...


http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s202/VST502L/287122_8_zpsf708bff4.jpg (http://s153.photobucket.com/user/VST502L/media/287122_8_zpsf708bff4.jpg.html)

the only thing i can notice is the position of the chin strap is different

[Claymore]

even though the paintwork looks ok when you stand back, here are some close up pics of the paint run and shadows..

a run under the logo..

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s202/VST502L/DSCF2614_zps7fcd8c36.jpg (http://s153.photobucket.com/user/VST502L/media/DSCF2614_zps7fcd8c36.jpg.html)


a couple of badly painted areas..


http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s202/VST502L/DSCF2604_zps70ba75c2.jpg (http://s153.photobucket.com/user/VST502L/media/DSCF2604_zps70ba75c2.jpg.html)


http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s202/VST502L/DSCF2611_zpsbb9f7d10.jpg (http://s153.photobucket.com/user/VST502L/media/DSCF2611_zpsbb9f7d10.jpg.html)

and a pic of the inspection sticker inside..


http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s202/VST502L/DSCF2612_zpsf8fb82ad.jpg (http://s153.photobucket.com/user/VST502L/media/DSCF2612_zpsf8fb82ad.jpg.html)


as ive said if someone can tell me if this sort of paintwork was common in those days then that would be great thanks !! :)

[tom1315]

Claymore, I have a 1994 - 1995 St. Louis Cardinals lineman's helmet. The rear warnings decal on my gamer is identical to the one on yours...same bold "WARNING" and exact language - word for word - in the body and the same in bold "No Helmet Can Prevent..." etc., all in caps.

The rear bumper - with "CARDINALS" with the smaller "TM" in the right lower corner are spot on to yours.

I think it is genuine.

Tom

GO PACK! NC State 1981 graduate

[paul457]

The quality of the paint job is a red flag, and it makes me think that someone did a backyard restore job on it. No certified painted / reconditioner would let work like that out the door on a real NFL helmet.

Also, from what I understand, the Patriots and Oakland both use a silver called 'Bright Silver Metallic' which has a very heavy silver flake to it. That's on current day helmets, I'm not sure if the Raiders used a different silver in the 80's / 90's, but the silver on the helmet above is not consistent with the silver on my Pats helmets. And it doesn't appear that there is any gloss to the paint, but that may be common for these older helmets.

The bad paint job, in my opinion, is enough to question it.

[bgakladd]

Dave, found this for you concerning Raiders helmets painted by the Romanski family who were equipment mgrs. for the Raiders. It is from Helmethut postings. www.helmethut.com/102303.html (http://www.helmethut.com/102303.html) very interesting concerning their experimenting with the paint and at times painting helmets in between games and crude paint jobs too. It doesn't say how long they did this but mentioned the Shell and Upshaw helmets they did which were painted on the inside.. If they did this to those helmets I'm sure others were done too, I can't say the years either that this was done or for how long they kept doing it. I wasn't there to see what they could of all possibly done to the helmets so I can only guess. Hope this article might help.

[Claymore]

The only thing i can think of regarding the paintwork is that it could of started off being Derrick Crudup's helmet and when Sam Seale returned for the 1992 season the helmet was given a quick paintjob to try and freshen it up ? :confused:

anyway i will keep digging into its history !! :D

[Claymore]

here are a few pics of Derrick Crudup playing..

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s202/VST502L/89853559_zps04b80436.jpg (http://s153.photobucket.com/user/VST502L/media/89853559_zps04b80436.jpg.html)


http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s202/VST502L/89853562_zpscbe45957.jpg (http://s153.photobucket.com/user/VST502L/media/89853562_zpscbe45957.jpg.html)


http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s202/VST502L/89853556_zpsa3e8c569.jpg (http://s153.photobucket.com/user/VST502L/media/89853556_zpsa3e8c569.jpg.html)


http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s202/VST502L/82507446_zpsb8eed8b2.jpg (http://s153.photobucket.com/user/VST502L/media/82507446_zpsb8eed8b2.jpg.html)

[bgakladd]

The photos of Crudup show him wearing a Schutt helmet, not Riddell. I am thinking it is a practice helmet since the hit marks are showing silver paint marks all around. I sold an Anthony Dorsett, Jr. 2003 Raiders Super Bowl helmet awhile back that he wore in the 2002-2003 seasons and that was a Riddell. But he also wore a Schutt helmet the same year in regular season games. The illustration being that it could be possible that Crudup wore Riddell in practice and a Schutt for regular season. Only speculation, I have no proof. And if a practice helmet, there will be no game photomatches or classified as a game used worn helmet. Photos from practice sessions would seem very hard to find, but possible.

[John in KY]

It doesn't say how long they did this but mentioned the Shell and Upshaw helmets they did which were painted on the inside.. If they did this to those helmets I'm sure others were done too, I can't say the years either that this was done or for how long they kept doing it. I wasn't there to see what they could of all possibly done to the helmets so I can only guess. Hope this article might help.

There are only a few helmet manufacturers that used a clear plastic shell that was painted on the inside - the Helmet Hut post mentions MacGregor/Kelley (MacGregor was the original manufacturer, when they got out of the business they sold the helmet manufacturing equipement to their largest sales rep who's last name was Kelley). The other major clearshell manufacturer in the NFL at that time was the Marietta/MaxPro (similar situation - Marietta either went out of business and was purchased by MaxPro or they might have just renamed the company). All other manufacturers (Riddell, Bike/Schutt, Rawlings, etc.) used shells molded in white (and most had other colors available). Riddell did use a clear shell back back in the early days of plastic helmets - the RT model. That one was phased out some time in the mid-1950s.

Claymore's helmet is a Riddell VSR-1; what I'm not sure of is when Riddell might have discontinued making these. I know they came out in the mid-80s, and of course Riddell would continue to sell replacement parts for reconditioning long after they "retired" a model so it certainly could have still been in use in the late 1990s. There should be some kind of date stamp on the inside of the shell (probably under the foam lining in the crown - back then I think they were still using this imprint that looked like a circle/clock) that would at least let you know when the shell was made.

[Claymore]

Ive not looked for the date code but the guy i bought it off of says it is 1988..

i sent a message to one of the players sons who was kind enough to show the pictures to his dad and he said that it did look like his old helmet but without pictures or hard evidence i cant confirm this..

i am still waiting for a reply from the other player to see if it was his old helmet and hopefully i can find out either way !!

if not then its still a great old helmet to add to my collection !! :D