Here we go again

[marino13]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Robinson-Cano-24-2010-New-York-Yankees-Un-Used-Worn-Issued-Home-Game-Jersey-/321078384274?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ac1c35692


There are just a couple of wrongs on this item:

1. Misplaced Steiner LOA

2. Steiner hologram on the tag looked like someone did a lousy job.

3. The wash tag looked funny to me.



The only thing look right is the MLB hologram, but then again....

[jbean023]

Steiner does a lousy job on a lot of holos

[trsent]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Robinson-Cano-24-2010-New-York-Yankees-Un-Used-Worn-Issued-Home-Game-Jersey-/321078384274?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ac1c35692


There are just a couple of wrongs on this item:

1. Misplaced Steiner LOA

2. Steiner hologram on the tag looked like someone did a lousy job.

3. The wash tag looked funny to me.



The only thing look right is the MLB hologram, but then again....

I don't understand, you are upset the Steiner LOA was missing and their hologram is on crooked? The item appears 100% legit.

Did you email the seller with your concerns before calling it out on Game Used Universe?

Here is the jersey last time it sold:

http://catalog.greyflannelauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=25602&searchby=3&searchvalue=cano&page=0&sortby=0&displayby=2&lotsperpage=25&category=1&seo=2010-Robinson-Cano-NY-Yankees-Game-Issued-Home-Jersey-(MLB-Hologram)-(Yankees-Steiner-LOA)-(GMS-Patc

Looks identical to me, just the Steiner LOA was lost.

[yanks12025]

Joel,
Why was the steiner hologram removed and put back on? In the two auctions, it's in different places.

[marino13]

Joel,
Why was the steiner hologram removed and put back on? In the two auctions, it's in different places.


Why did the HOLOGRAM removed in the first place?


Another thing that stood out, the wash tag being punched? I have about 10 of Yankees game used jerseys and NONE of mine has a hole-punched on it.


Coincident?


I want to know if other Yankees jersey collectors - check the wash-tag and see if there is a hole-punched on it.



Like I said, the only thing looks semi-legit is the the MLB hologram. Cant tell if that even legit from the photo.

[trsent]

So, did you ask the seller your questions before posting the on the forum?

No one is above the rules of this forum.

I don't see the issues, the jersey is apperars to be a legitimate pro-cut or whatever, but you seem to think Steiner and the current seller are up to no good? What makes the MLB hologram questionable? Are you just looking for trouble?

The Steiner sticker has moved? I guess you guys are really pfishing here.

[trsent]

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=99

16. In instances where a forum member is identifying an item in the hobby they believe to have issues, the poster should clearly state their findings in the form of an opinion and provide adequate rationale for why they believe there is an issue. When possible, we recommend that the poster questioning an item attempt to contact the seller of the item and allow at least 24 hours for the seller to reply before posting. This will prevent postings that may be generated based on misunderstandings of an item. In addition, while this forum is designed to help educate collectors, we will not allow comments that accuse entities in the hobby of participating in any form of criminal wrong-doing. Any posts suggesting criminal wrong-doing should be brought to the attention of the moderators immediately.

So, I don't see any reason the seller wasn't contacted. It is really possible to click the eBay Ask A Question button.

If you think there is criminial wrong-doing, did you contact the forum moderators immediatley?

[pjbmd]

before Efrain left steiner i had communicated with him about the punched holes in the tagging
he stated that steiner had done this with all jerseys collected at season end which were holo'ed by MLB as issued
i have a few 2010 jerseys tagged as holo'ed with obvious wear simply due to authenticors not seeing the item come off the players back
what im trying to say is don't be thrown off by hole punched in tag--many 2010 NYY jerseys have that
PJB

[marino13]

I also spoke with Efrain in the past and he also mentioned about the whole punched on wash tag as "no number" jersey.


And pulled one of my blank jersey which I wore to many games --- sure enough, there is a hole punch on it.


Now back to the point of the hologram, I have seen "photo copied" of the so called hologram at a collectible show. I pointed out to the dealer and he was shocked that it looked just like the real deal. He was pissed that he had put that game used jersey away.


With all the high tech printer out there, it is NOT that difficult to "custom made" an existing hologram.


Misplace LOA? It can happen.

The condition of the Steiner hologram when it was auction off is VERY VERY different from the one currently being auctioned.


Another thing, hologram doesnt just fall off on its own. The blank jersey I wore to the games and been washed and dried so many time i can count -- the Steiner hologram still STUCK on there. So, the excuse of the hologram just fell off and being put back is just kinda iffy at best!

[marino13]

So, did you ask the seller your questions before posting the on the forum?

No one is above the rules of this forum.

I don't see the issues, the jersey is apperars to be a legitimate pro-cut or whatever, but you seem to think Steiner and the current seller are up to no good? What makes the MLB hologram questionable? Are you just looking for trouble?

The Steiner sticker has moved? I guess you guys are really pfishing here.


Hmm, where did I say that Steiner is being up to no good?


Shit, if they were up to no good - they would have lose my number on their speed-dial. I spend more than I made with Steiner and I know what their stuff look like 99% of the time.

I just spoke with a closed friend there - they do not reused holograms that show that shown some kind of tampering (accident or not). Bent, crease or the mirror image has evidence of that. They dont want to leave any doubt on the holograms on their stuff.


I guess to each his own when it comes to purchase any item - questionable or not. "Fool and his money will part" when you dont research and question item you are buying. But thanks to this "education" forum, a lot of newbies wont make that mistake.

[slab0meat]

Strictly speaking of the hologram falling off...

I bought a 2010 issued Thames from Steiner a few years ago. I *think* there were two holograms on the Majestic tag (I'd have to physically check, not home right now), and I wore that jersey two or three times. One of the holograms fell off once, and I happened to see it on the floor.. tried putting it back on and it stuck. Next time out, it fell off again and I didn't find it. I'm not even sure if this was washed at all, MAYBE once.

Bottom line, it's very possible for this to happen.

[earlywynnfan]

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=99

16. In instances where a forum member is identifying an item in the hobby they believe to have issues, the poster should clearly state their findings in the form of an opinion and provide adequate rationale for why they believe there is an issue. When possible, we recommend that the poster questioning an item attempt to contact the seller of the item and allow at least 24 hours for the seller to reply before posting. This will prevent postings that may be generated based on misunderstandings of an item. In addition, while this forum is designed to help educate collectors, we will not allow comments that accuse entities in the hobby of participating in any form of criminal wrong-doing. Any posts suggesting criminal wrong-doing should be brought to the attention of the moderators immediately.

So, I don't see any reason the seller wasn't contacted. It is really possible to click the eBay Ask A Question button.

If you think there is criminial wrong-doing, did you contact the forum moderators immediatley?


Don't know about the OP's answer, but I know why I wouldn't waste my time trying to contact this seller: he's one of the biggest frauds on ebay who has already pled guilty to doctoring jerseys. So if he was contacted, based on previous experience, he'd deny, insult, or ignore.

Ken

[Melissa1334]

when you look up the mlb authentication number, why does it come up as team issued jersey only, not cano game issued?

[jppopma]

As the seller is not selling this as game used, I don't see what the problem with selling a team issued (MLB Authenticated even ) jersey is.

Good information though on the hole punched in the team issued Yankees jerseys. I don't buy the blank part because the MLB Authentication shows #24.

[trsent]

Hmm, where did I say that Steiner is being up to no good?


Shit, if they were up to no good - they would have lose my number on their speed-dial. I spend more than I made with Steiner and I know what their stuff look like 99% of the time.

I just spoke with a closed friend there - they do not reused holograms that show that shown some kind of tampering (accident or not). Bent, crease or the mirror image has evidence of that. They dont want to leave any doubt on the holograms on their stuff.


I guess to each his own when it comes to purchase any item - questionable or not. "Fool and his money will part" when you dont research and question item you are buying. But thanks to this "education" forum, a lot of newbies wont make that mistake.

Michael, I'm not sure what your issue is, but this jersey is a Steiner jersey from Grey Flannel and I'm not sure what your point is except an attack with no merit and clearly abusing forum policies.

The jersey was listed in Grey Flannel who works with Steiner and it appears identical to that jersey and you think the seller, who is under a microscope as Ken mentioned above, would counterfeit a hologram?

Without any proof your accusations are out of line and unprofessional. I'm not sure what you are trying to prove, but it is pretty sad your line of attack bringing up points that are not even close to being realistic.

No one can make accusations without first having some proof to back it up. If that was the case this forum wouldn't exist as it would be unprofessional and just a waste of time.

Good for you Steiner has your number on speed dial. I wouldn't brag about that. :o I like your fool and his money comment. That usually describes customer who Steiner has on their speed dial.

[astros5.7]

I own a road Berkman from 2010 that shows good use and is photo matched, it is authenticated as issued and has a hole punched in the wash tag. Link below.

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?p=247546#post247546

And another thread related to holes being punched in wash tags.

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?p=252858#post252858

[marino13]

Michael, I'm not sure what your issue is, but this jersey is a Steiner jersey from Grey Flannel and I'm not sure what your point is except an attack with no merit and clearly abusing forum policies.

The jersey was listed in Grey Flannel who works with Steiner and it appears identical to that jersey and you think the seller, who is under a microscope as Ken mentioned above, would counterfeit a hologram?

Without any proof your accusations are out of line and unprofessional. I'm not sure what you are trying to prove, but it is pretty sad your line of attack bringing up points that are not even close to being realistic.

No one can make accusations without first having some proof to back it up. If that was the case this forum wouldn't exist as it would be unprofessional and just a waste of time.

Good for you Steiner has your number on speed dial. I wouldn't brag about that. :o I like your fool and his money comment. That usually describes customer who Steiner has on their speed dial.

:D

hahahahaa.


.... I am just curious, why do you defend this person? What is in it for you?


As stated by many other members about the seller "being indicted, fraud, altered game used and so forth", so here is another quote for you

"if it walk like a duck, quack like a duck, it aint no F***king chicken"


As for the hole being punch in wash tag - my only experiences are with Yankees jersey. I spoke and deal with Efrain in the past and anyone here can voucher that Efrain is one stand up guy who support the collector while working for Steiner. He was very straight and arrow about Yankees stuff. I have no reason to doubt him and his saying whatsoever. He got no benefit from it.



as for MLB hologram being copied, I wished I had taken the picture of it before I mentioned it to the seller. But then again, I can always go to Kinko or Staples and test out this theory myself. How difficult can it be to copy a picture of something and take a picture of the copy?

[astros5.7]

The photo matched Berkman jersey I am referencing is a Yankees jersey and MLB authenticated as issued to #17. That clearly shows that it isn't a blank jersey. I talked to the exact same person you did after I purchased the jersey, and I was told any jersey that was MLB authenticated as game issued had a hole punched in the wash tag, whether it showed use or not.

[trsent]

:D

hahahahaa.


.... I am just curious, why do you defend this person? What is in it for you?


As stated by many other members about the seller "being indicted, fraud, altered game used and so forth", so here is another quote for you

"if it walk like a duck, quack like a duck, it aint no F***king chicken"


As for the hole being punch in wash tag - my only experiences are with Yankees jersey. I spoke and deal with Efrain in the past and anyone here can voucher that Efrain is one stand up guy who support the collector while working for Steiner. He was very straight and arrow about Yankees stuff. I have no reason to doubt him and his saying whatsoever. He got no benefit from it.



as for MLB hologram being copied, I wished I had taken the picture of it before I mentioned it to the seller. But then again, I can always go to Kinko or Staples and test out this theory myself. How difficult can it be to copy a picture of something and take a picture of the copy?

It isn't about the person selling the jersey, it is about you making up accusations on a perfectly legitimate and original jersey. You are basically making false accusations and why?

Do you have any proof that the seller copied the hologram and placed it on a different jersey than the one sold by Grey Flannel? If not, you do not have the right to make up stuff.

I could come on this forum and make up stuff too if I lived in a dream word, but I don't, I live in reality.

I'd guarantee jersey is legitimate and original as purchased from Grey Flannel - You made up stuff, didn't email the seller in advance and are looking for trouble yourself by not being a respectable person playing by the rules of common decency.

[yanks12025]

It's not orginal considering the Steiner tag has been messed with.

[marino13]

The steiner hologram has been tampered with -- how would anyone explained the multiple creases on a not so easy creased hologram?

Only logical answer -- it was creased during the removal process!


Now, if the letter is available, no one would question but I still would with the multiples deep creases on the hologram.


As for copy MLB hologram, I never stated that the seller copied it and so forth. What I said was I have encountered in person at a convention --- a random seller has game used jersey with copied MLB hologram tag! After letting the seller knows the discrepancy, the jersey was removed from display. What happen to it -- I DONT CARE. It just shocked me at that moment that it actually happened!


Now I guess, we have "blank" and "issued" situation -- they both have hole-punch in the tag. How would you know which is which IF the letter LOA is not available?

[marino13]

not being a respectable person playing by the rules of common decency.


hmmm, this description qualify to a lot of newly release prisoner or the convicted by his fellow peers.


And this statement DOES NOT meant for the seller -- it is for:

"Walk like a duck, quack like a duck, have ducklings telling observers it's a a chicken .... IT AINT A F***KING CHICKEN




And just a side thought, while you defend this jersey (could careless about the seller) -- I guess, this your jersey? :D

[cliffjmp33]

I don't have any clue either way about legitimacy, so I won't even wager a comment.

However, I noticed the seller, masauction, and I remember that name being mentioned before in previous posts. I think it may be worth time to read previous comments about that seller.

[astros5.7]

To be clear, I am not defending the seller, a quick search would tell most people to stay clear of his auctions given his past.

My main point is that having a hole punched in the tag doesn't mean that it is a blank. I have shown several examples of people having game worn and issued jerseys that have the hole punched in the wash tag.

[trsent]

I just don't get what is altered about the Steiner tag. Someone says it moved from one listing to another? I'm very confused what the issue is. Does anyone have any proof this jersey isn't the same jersey from the Grey Flannel listing to the eBay listing?

[earlywynnfan]

The pinstripes seem to match up to my eye, I cannot see how they are different jerseys. The seller claims the hologram "slid over" during handling. How is this possible??

Ken

[trsent]

The pinstripes seem to match up to my eye, I cannot see how they are different jerseys. The seller claims the hologram "slid over" during handling. How is this possible??

Ken

Ken, who knows? Nice to hear the jerseys match-up. Can't imagine how a hologram would slide over, but whatever, at least the jersey appears original.

[ChuckFoPrez]

Ken, who knows? Nice to hear the jerseys match-up. Can't imagine how a hologram would slide over, but whatever, at least the jersey appears original.

It's entirely possible for that to happen, the adhesive on the back can break down due to heat and age and become this real sticky glue-like substance that the sticker can effectively float on and move with relative ease. That said, there should be a residue trail from the original point of placement if this were the case.

Just my $0.02

[marino13]

The pinstripes seem to match up to my eye, I cannot see how they are different jerseys. The seller claims the hologram "slid over" during handling. How is this possible??

Ken

Did you ask how bad was the handling that cause the hologram not only slid over and a couple deep heavy creases?


Or just maybe, the hologram wants to follow with the current trend. It is doing the "harlem shake"? :D

[slab0meat]

It's certainly possible it moved (see my post above).. no idea about creases or whatever, but those holograms don't always stick very well.

[trsent]

Did you ask how bad was the handling that cause the hologram not only slid over and a couple deep heavy creases?


Or just maybe, the hologram wants to follow with the current trend. It is doing the "harlem shake"? :D

Michael, don't you speak English because I have no idea what you are trying to say. Are you now accusing the seller of spilling a milkshake on the jersey? I don't understand your comment. It looks like something Jason Edelman would have written with that smiley face (or 10) after it.

All I know is the jersey appears to be the same jersey from Grey Flannel that I posted so I'm not sure what the point of continuing is unless you are really just trying to stir the pot up.

Did you every email your concerns to the seller and receive a reply?

[ousooner_85]

From what I've read in past threads about this seller, I wouldn't waste time with is stuff other than to warn others, if so inclined.

The sticker is in a different place for whatever reason, otherwise the jersey appears to be the same as it was from Grey Flannel. Something like this wouldn't be a deal breaker on an item for me normally but given the sellers history..............to each his own going forward.

[marino13]

Michael, don't you speak English because I have no idea what you are trying to say. Are you now accusing the seller of spilling a milkshake on the jersey? I don't understand your comment. It looks like something Jason Edelman would have written with that smiley face (or 10) after it.

All I know is the jersey appears to be the same jersey from Grey Flannel that I posted so I'm not sure what the point of continuing is unless you are really just trying to stir the pot up.

Did you every email your concerns to the seller and receive a reply?


Ha!

Would rather deal with people selling GU on Craigslist before I deal with a KNOWN fraudster! I wouldnt even touch this jersey with a ten foot pole.


Milk shake is bad English for Harlem shake... lmfao!


The pot is NOT need to be stirred up since history speak for itself, like the title stated "Here we go again!"

[marino13]

Maybe you can blame on Steiner for handling the jersey -- here is the video of them doing!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iwrxd5vfj_c

[Roady]

Maybe you can blame on Steiner for handling the jersey -- here is the video of them doing!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iwrxd5vfj_c

I have to admit, I laughed out loud. :o