kingjammy24
11-02-2006, 07:32 PM
many feel that team/player provenance is everything; that it can singlehandedly make an item good. they'll use it in lieu of "doing their homework". even if they have no actual proof, many sellers will still advertise they "acquired it straight from the team/player!" because of how much faith buyers place in such provenance.
others, like myself, feel it's not quite so infallible. rather, it can provide a great foundation upon which to build. it can help provide insight and guide analysis. it's hardly a guarantee though.
the reason it's not a guarantee is because, at best, teams and players make mistakes. they forget, they mis-label, they confuse items. at worst, it can be used by individuals in trusted positions to defraud others. i'm under no impression, for example, that every individual employed in a sports team's front office is unwaveringly ethical and would never dream of profiting from a supply of team letterhead. nor am i under the impression that even players making millions of dollars are immune to selling boxes of procut jerseys in order to let their friends profit from their positions.
when a player is selling items, i think the reason(s) and method they're selling them has a direct impact on the quality of the items and the provenance. if a player is selling items under an aggressive and substantial profit-making venture, then the likelihood that they'll cut corners increases. if their main motive is to provide income for their friends, then they may think "if i can sell 2 game jerseys for $2k, then i can sell 10 for $10k". whether they're actually wearing the jerseys is anyone's guess. by artificially flooding the market with manufactured "gamers", not only is the entire stock diluted but so is the provenance. if Johnny Ballplayer is deliberately ordering boxes of jerseys to give to his friends to sell, then does the fact that they came from him matter anymore? the provenance becomes worthless even though it's from a player.
conversely, if a player is selling items simply because they're just trying to clear some clutter out of their garage, then the items are likely to be exactly what a collector would want - legitimately used, hammered with use, and in short supply. the provenance in this case is as good as gold.
in terms of team provenance, i think the quality of the items and the provenance itself is determined by how the entire collection and sales process is handled. contrast meigray/texas rangers' system with steiner/yankees'. the rangers sewed a unique inventory code onto every single jersey and then entered that code into a database. contacting meigray allowed anyone to find out if the jersey was game-issued or game-used, by whom, and when. purchase a meigray rangers jersey and you know exactly what you're getting. the provenance was as rock-solid as it got.
conversely, steiner came up with no unique codes, no method of identifying and tracking specific items, stickers that could easily be transferred from one item to another, and letters that could easily be forged. upon taking control of the yankees inventory, steiner made numerous errors regarding who wore the items and when. a david wells jersey, for example, ended up actually being worn by jose canseco. how did they determine if the items were issued or worn? my guess is a cursory, visual inspection by people who weren't well-versed in discerning game wear. (to be fair to steiner, there wasn't much they could do in the latter case. the yankees equipment managers seem to have run a ludicrously disorganized and undocumented system.) so when you purchased a steiner jersey, in many cases all you could be sure of was that it did indeed come from the yankees. whether it was actually worn and worn by the player advertised was a leap of faith. the provenance wasn't as solid as meigray/rangers.
here's an interesting issue with team/player provenance:
1) Lelands 2002 auction - lot 1781 - "1983 Dave Stieb All-Star Game Worn Glove, Cap, and Spikes...LOA from Stieb".
http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/4586/stiebmt4.jpg
2) AMI 2006 auction - lot 380 - "1983 Dave Stieb signed, game-worn All-Star cleats w/LOA from batboy...The consignor is a former Oakland A's clubhouse attendant who obtained them directly from Stieb at the end of the season. Stieb told the consignor these were the same cleats that he wore in the All-Star Game in Chicago".
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/700/stieb2af9.jpg
did Stieb really wear 2 different pairs of cleats in the All-Star Game? (i don't even think these cleats are from the same year). who's wrong, Stieb or the ballboy? only a photo would tell.
the unfortunate thing is that many of today's mlb authentic retail jerseys are so identical to the gamers, that all you really have left to depend on is the provenance.
rudy.
others, like myself, feel it's not quite so infallible. rather, it can provide a great foundation upon which to build. it can help provide insight and guide analysis. it's hardly a guarantee though.
the reason it's not a guarantee is because, at best, teams and players make mistakes. they forget, they mis-label, they confuse items. at worst, it can be used by individuals in trusted positions to defraud others. i'm under no impression, for example, that every individual employed in a sports team's front office is unwaveringly ethical and would never dream of profiting from a supply of team letterhead. nor am i under the impression that even players making millions of dollars are immune to selling boxes of procut jerseys in order to let their friends profit from their positions.
when a player is selling items, i think the reason(s) and method they're selling them has a direct impact on the quality of the items and the provenance. if a player is selling items under an aggressive and substantial profit-making venture, then the likelihood that they'll cut corners increases. if their main motive is to provide income for their friends, then they may think "if i can sell 2 game jerseys for $2k, then i can sell 10 for $10k". whether they're actually wearing the jerseys is anyone's guess. by artificially flooding the market with manufactured "gamers", not only is the entire stock diluted but so is the provenance. if Johnny Ballplayer is deliberately ordering boxes of jerseys to give to his friends to sell, then does the fact that they came from him matter anymore? the provenance becomes worthless even though it's from a player.
conversely, if a player is selling items simply because they're just trying to clear some clutter out of their garage, then the items are likely to be exactly what a collector would want - legitimately used, hammered with use, and in short supply. the provenance in this case is as good as gold.
in terms of team provenance, i think the quality of the items and the provenance itself is determined by how the entire collection and sales process is handled. contrast meigray/texas rangers' system with steiner/yankees'. the rangers sewed a unique inventory code onto every single jersey and then entered that code into a database. contacting meigray allowed anyone to find out if the jersey was game-issued or game-used, by whom, and when. purchase a meigray rangers jersey and you know exactly what you're getting. the provenance was as rock-solid as it got.
conversely, steiner came up with no unique codes, no method of identifying and tracking specific items, stickers that could easily be transferred from one item to another, and letters that could easily be forged. upon taking control of the yankees inventory, steiner made numerous errors regarding who wore the items and when. a david wells jersey, for example, ended up actually being worn by jose canseco. how did they determine if the items were issued or worn? my guess is a cursory, visual inspection by people who weren't well-versed in discerning game wear. (to be fair to steiner, there wasn't much they could do in the latter case. the yankees equipment managers seem to have run a ludicrously disorganized and undocumented system.) so when you purchased a steiner jersey, in many cases all you could be sure of was that it did indeed come from the yankees. whether it was actually worn and worn by the player advertised was a leap of faith. the provenance wasn't as solid as meigray/rangers.
here's an interesting issue with team/player provenance:
1) Lelands 2002 auction - lot 1781 - "1983 Dave Stieb All-Star Game Worn Glove, Cap, and Spikes...LOA from Stieb".
http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/4586/stiebmt4.jpg
2) AMI 2006 auction - lot 380 - "1983 Dave Stieb signed, game-worn All-Star cleats w/LOA from batboy...The consignor is a former Oakland A's clubhouse attendant who obtained them directly from Stieb at the end of the season. Stieb told the consignor these were the same cleats that he wore in the All-Star Game in Chicago".
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/700/stieb2af9.jpg
did Stieb really wear 2 different pairs of cleats in the All-Star Game? (i don't even think these cleats are from the same year). who's wrong, Stieb or the ballboy? only a photo would tell.
the unfortunate thing is that many of today's mlb authentic retail jerseys are so identical to the gamers, that all you really have left to depend on is the provenance.
rudy.