How'd I do, Batman?

[encinorick]

I won lot 921 in the Mastronet Auction last night. It's the Babe Ruth 1934-44 H&B Game Used/Coaches Bat for about $5,000. I'd appreciate our roundtable experts' opinion on whether this was a good purchase or not. I proudly say that I am not a Yankee fan (Dodger blue all the way), but I'm with Reid, the Bambino was the greatest. Clearly it's not in the same leagure as the David Kohl's Babe Ruth bat that went for over a million a couple of years ago, but, then again I didn't pay a million for it either.

[earlywynnfan]

It sounds to me like you're happy with it, so doesn't that make it a good purchase?

Ken

[encinorick]

The heart says yes, but, the brain?

[MSpecht]

Hi Rick--

I have looked closely at the auction description

http://www.mastronet.com/index.cfm?action=DisplayContent&ContentName=Lot%20Information&LotIndex=63492&CurrentRow=1

over the past week or so, and compared it with the available H & B factory records for Babe Ruth. Here are the things that stood out in my mind, for your consideration:

Looking specifically at the 1934 - 1944 period as described for this bat, H & B factory records document thirteen (13) separate orders shipped to Ruth between 3/8/34 and 2/15/40. All thirteen of those orders were for a model described as "His (Ruth's) 8-17-33." That nomenclature refers to the date that Ruth had this specific model bat crafted for him off of an Art Jorgen's 4-8-32 model made with a larger end. There were a total of 76 bats shipped to Ruth in those thirteen orders. As an aside, Ruth's 8-17-33 eventually was later designated H & B Model R43 when model numbers were assigned.

The auction write-up describes this bat as 34 inches in length with a weight of 32 1/2 ounces, then notes it as being "small" by Ruth standards. It is unknown whether they are speaking relative to length and weight, or only one or the other. The description then describes accurately the variance in weight between the subject bat and the 76 bats shipped to Ruth during this time frame. At that point, the potential buyer has sufficient information with regards to weight with which to determine his
own comfort level with this bat.

But what about length? The auction description states " There are no lengths listed in factory records from 1934 to 1941, only weights. " That is not an entirely accurate statement, and an accurate representation would have had a significant bearing on my personal comfort level with this bat.

Based on research pioneered by Vince Malta, and which will appear in his soon-to-be published book due for publication in about a month, the length of the 76 bats ordered by Ruth during this period were uniformly 35 inches. This is established by using the diagrammed index bats that are also a part of H & B's documented records for individual players, and specifically the diagrammed length of 35 inches for Ruth's 8-17-33 model. Here's how it works:

When a player had a "new" model made for him off of an existing model (with some modifications), or possibly an entirely new model made to his specifications, the bat was indexed and diagrammed to be used for future orders by that player, or any player who wished to order it. The diagram often had a specific length attached to it. That length would be established as the standard length for all orders of that model, unless the order specifically requested a different length, which would be noted at the time of the order In other words, if you ordered a Jimmie Foxx model 2-21-28 it would automatically come to you in its indexed length of 35 inches unless you specified a different length -- and the variation would be the weight you had specified. Additional information regarding this is found in post # 16 (and other posts) in the much-discussed
"32 inch Tris Speaker Bat" thread linked below:


http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=4019

So here is a bat that, to most collectors and potential buyers, is pretty much placed in Babe Ruth's hands based on the auction description and the representation that it is a bit lighter than Ruth's ordering pattern of the period (but basically within the acceptable range of variance used by most authenticators), and a (inaccurate) statement that "no lengths are listed in factory records from 1934 to 1941, only weights, " which implies that a 34 inch Ruth bat is a "maybe, could be..." and is not disputed by,or in conflict with, documented factory records.

The bat comes with LOAs from well-known authenticators Dave Bushing and Troy Kinunen (MEARS) and John Taube (PSA/DNA.). Unfortunately, there are no links to the LOAs from the auction site, and it is somewhat tedious for a potential buyer to get copies of the LOAs during the course of the auction without an exchange of several emails or telephone calls. Thus, it is very difficult to determine what each of these authenticators said in the respective LOAs, and specifically how the issue of length relative to existing factory records was addressed by each.

Personally, I would have a much higher comfort level with this bat if it was 35 inches in length, and not an inch shorter than all of Ruth's documented orders of the period and later. I understand that a fine line exists on requesting accurate information through the Game Used Universe public forum when a member may be hesitant about alerting other members to a current auction item (especially on Ebay), but I would rather take the risk of having to spend a few extra dollars in outbiding someone than to win an item that I may later have questions about when the information was available for the asking .

Mike Jackitout7@aol.com

[encinorick]

Valid points. I'm not a "batman" and, as these things go, I must rely on the experts. If, after examining the LOA's, I find that there is a discrepency between them and Mastro's description, I will definitely pursue it with Mastro. However, Mears gave it a 4.5 rating (which still to this day is very confusing rating system) so I'm aware of the uncertainties surrounding the bat and the fact that it wasn't used by Ruth when he was Yankee at the height of his tenure. I feel that these uncertainties are "baked" into the price, which I thought (perhaps foolishly) was pretty reasonable.

[sportscentury]

I'm not a "batman" and, as these things go, I must rely on the experts.

Mike,

Outstanding post.

Rick,

Your quote above is one you should think about. I mean this to help you - as long as this is your attitude, you are going to be more vulnerable to bad purchases. The best thing you can do is research the item you are buying before you actually buy it. It is via this process, and this process along, that you become a "batman," as you term it, at least with respect to the bats that you are considering adding to your collection.

Best,
Reid