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Chris78
07-24-2012, 10:35 PM
It is very sad with the situation at Penn State and what Jerry Sandusky did to 10 innocent children. However, the decision issued by the NCAA on Monday concerning Penn State is like dropping the atomic bomb on millions of innocent people. Penn State will never be the same as a result of the extreme decision. College graduates, Alumni, and others will be affected and their degrees will be tainted. Businesses in State College will go out of business. Players that played hard to win games will now be told that it does not matter now. Plenty of other problems will occur. Should the NCAA have taken the case to the level it was taken to and affect the lives of many innocent people? Not to this level. I agree with a fine that helps fight the cause, but you do not drop the atomic bomb on Penn State. I feel the NCAA leadership (Mark Emmert) handled the situation very poorly. The NCAA may have ruined the lives of many innocent people and Penn State will never be the same.

I would also like to point out that Louis Freeh resigned in 2001 as FBI Director due to poor leadership and controversy. After reading this, is the report even accurate? Is the decision political and out of jealousy? Why did the NCAA not conduct its own investigation?

I feel more info will be coming out and what was done on Monday was the worse way to handle the problem. It is wrong to affect the lives of innocent people and that is what the NCAA accomplished.

Chris

Flamechicken
07-24-2012, 10:57 PM
I think that Penn State did enough to taint the name of the university themselves without the "help" of the NCAA.

trsent
07-24-2012, 11:16 PM
I fully agree. The NCAA is hurting children who enrolled at Penn State for their future because they found what I believe to be four people who messed up a situation that should have been resolved years ago.

Coach Paterno, who I defended until recently, may have been more concerned with him image and the team than exposing the situation from the current reports. This is sad, but I do believe him when he said he never heard of a man molesting a child. I believe he didn't believe it could have happened but not having a proper investigation ruined his legacy.

The two university executives who will face trial are also in a similar position. They had no excuses not to report this to the police and have a full investigation.

The piece of crap who committed these crimes has ruined many, many lives because of his sickness and it now isn't just the victims, who's lives have been changed because of his behavior, but now new students including football players are being punished because of his actions and his superiors actions.

The whole situation is a shame and if anything good comes of it hopefully is the fact that child molestation is not to be swept under a carpet. It is a sick act that needs never to be allowed.

Chris78
07-25-2012, 05:47 AM
I think that Penn State did enough to taint the name of the university themselves without the "help" of the NCAA.

The NCAA then should not have gone to this level. They can fine Penn State and have money go back to help fight the cause. You do not need to reduce scholarships, change records, take bowl games away, etc. of people that had nothing to do with the situation. The NCAA went too extreme with the decision by affecting millions that had nothing to do with it.

I feel that the NCAA by not doing their own investigation and taking a report by someone that has resigned due to poor leadership and controversy does not say much for the NCAA leadership.

Chris

rufusandherschel
07-25-2012, 07:23 AM
The NCAA then should not have gone to this level. They can fine Penn State and have money go back to help fight the cause. You do not need to reduce scholarships, change records, take bowl games away, etc. of people that had nothing to do with the situation. The NCAA went too extreme with the decision by affecting millions that had nothing to do with it.

I feel that the NCAA by not doing their own investigation and taking a report by someone that has resigned due to poor leadership and controversy does not say much for the NCAA leadership.

Chris

It's 'Oh so easy to criticize.' So what would you propose?

GoTigers
07-25-2012, 07:30 AM
..And after rioting in support of Joe Pa, PSU fans continue to amaze me.. I do not like the NCAA, but they are not the bad guy here. PSU did this to themselves.

Id like to point out that the NCAA did not do an investigation because they asked PSU to do one themselves. PSU HIRED LOUIS FREEH to lead the investigation and write a report. Now the fans are mad at the schools' own report, and trashing Freeh who was hired by the PSU leadership? The NCAA simply accepted the schools self investigation.. Something the fans are not willing to do themselves.

Chris, you are right that PSU will never be the same, but not because of the NCAA sanctions, the damage was done by PSU letting a child molestor run rampant for years on end.

I do feel bad for the players, fans, alumni. But I think in this case the death penalty was needed. I think that fans need to realize that the program is finished, and that it should be after what they did.

Be proud of your diploma and become a Steelers fan.

Chris78
07-25-2012, 08:02 AM
..And after rioting in support of Joe Pa, PSU fans continue to amaze me.. I do not like the NCAA, but they are not the bad guy here. PSU did this to themselves.

Id like to point out that the NCAA did not do an investigation because they asked PSU to do one themselves. PSU HIRED LOUIS FREEH to lead the investigation and write a report. Now the fans are mad at the schools' own report, and trashing Freeh who was hired by the PSU leadership? The NCAA simply accepted the schools self investigation.. Something the fans are not willing to do themselves.

Chris, you are right that PSU will never be the same, but not because of the NCAA sanctions, the damage was done by PSU letting a child molestor run rampant for years on end.

I do feel bad for the players, fans, alumni. But I think in this case the death penalty was needed. I think that fans need to realize that the program is finished, and that it should be after what they did.

Be proud of your diploma and become a Steelers fan.

The people that hired Louis Freeh were the Board of Trustees that needed to cover up for themselves. That is a problem in itself.

It is screwing over plenty of people that had nothing to do with it and that is wrong. As far as what I am proposing, I feel that a fine that helps fight the cause of the problem is fine, but do not take it out on everyone at Penn State.

I am a Steelers fan, a casual fan of Penn State (did not attend PSU), and live in Eastern PA about 180 miles from State College. I am stating the ripple effect of the NCAA decision is going to be much more harsh then what people may think.

Chris

slab0meat
07-25-2012, 08:12 AM
Awww.... too harsh? Poor Penn State. These weren't some recruiting violations or similar athletic no-nos.. Frigging crimes against humanity. There's nothing lower than a child molester, though people who helped him continue his ways sure come close. Too bad for PSU.

Chris78
07-25-2012, 08:48 AM
Awww.... too harsh? Poor Penn State. These weren't some recruiting violations or similar athletic no-nos.. Frigging crimes against humanity. There's nothing lower than a child molester, though people who helped him continue his ways sure come close. Too bad for PSU.

The decision affects too many people that had nothing to do with it, my friend. I think you are missing my point.

both-teams-played-hard
07-25-2012, 11:54 AM
.. the ripple effect of the NCAA decision is going to be much more harsh then what people may think.

...the ripple effect of being raped by a creepy, old man is going to be much more harsh than what people may think.

Chris78
07-25-2012, 12:18 PM
...the ripple effect of being raped by a creepy, old man is going to be much more harsh than what people may think.

Yes, and that is why the creepy, old man was convicted on 45 of 48 counts. He is going to pay the price and that is the way it should be.

To drop an atomic bomb on many people, businesses, etc. that had nothing to do with this....I can't agree with this....I'm sorry.

slab0meat
07-25-2012, 01:35 PM
Maybe the people involved should have considered all the "people who had nothing to do with this", should it ever come to light. And it has. And they did not.

The whole Board should be replaced as well.

trsent
07-25-2012, 05:17 PM
Isn't is sick how one pathetic human being can turn so many people's lives upside down?

yanks12025
07-25-2012, 05:31 PM
I dont think its fair to take wins away after the fact. The guy molesting children has nothing to do with playing on the field, does it give the team an advantage over others NO.

kellsox
07-25-2012, 08:19 PM
I dont think its fair to take wins away after the fact. The guy molesting children has nothing to do with playing on the field, does it give the team an advantage over others NO.

Another ignorant post regarding the situation- the "guy molesting children" was the core of the problem. The sanctions have to do with the lack of action and cover up by paterno, the school's AD/ president / and vice president FOR 10 YEARS. The football culture was Bigger than the educational institution The true amount of children harmed during that time span may never be known.
I think the punishment is appropriate and should be a wake up call to other schools where athletics run the show.

trsent
07-25-2012, 10:36 PM
News today states that they were originally going to get the death penalty for four years and this is their negotiated compromise.

Chris78
07-26-2012, 12:45 PM
Another ignorant post regarding the situation- the "guy molesting children" was the core of the problem. The sanctions have to do with the lack of action and cover up by paterno, the school's AD/ president / and vice president FOR 10 YEARS. The football culture was Bigger than the educational institution The true amount of children harmed during that time span may never be known.
I think the punishment is appropriate and should be a wake up call to other schools where athletics run the show.

The situation was under investigation for 10+ years and originally reported in 1998. Keep in mind that our government is very "process" oriented. The Freeh report is what some people wanted to hear and based on his opinion. In reality, anybody could do more about anything. For instance, Bud Selig could have done more about the steroids issue in baseball and I personally feel that he should have. I feel records have been tainted as a result. On the flip side, by not doing anything, it brought back baseball from the strike period especially with the home run chase in 1998.

The problem with the NCAA decision is that it affects too many people that have nothing to do with the problem. Penn State is a great school for academics and not just football. This is looking at the "big picture" and looking at the situation on how everyone is being impacted by the decision. The punishment is too severe when looking at it that way. This is not ingorance; this is intelligence.

The alternative about giving the death penalty for 4 years may have been better because Penn State could appeal the problem easier and it puts more pressure on the NCAA. As it stands now, I feel Penn State needs to appeal the situation at some point anyway.

yanks12025
07-26-2012, 05:26 PM
Either way its still not right, because I'm sure most of the members on that team had no clue what was going on. Why should they get punished for something they weren't apart of.

kudu
07-26-2012, 05:33 PM
Another ignorant post regarding the situation- the "guy molesting children" was the core of the problem. The sanctions have to do with the lack of action and cover up by paterno, the school's AD/ president / and vice president FOR 10 YEARS. The football culture was Bigger than the educational institution The true amount of children harmed during that time span may never be known.
I think the punishment is appropriate and should be a wake up call to other schools where athletics run the show.

I agree. There were crimes knowingly committed, against children, on the Penn State campus and the powers that be at Penn State tried to cover it up. I think the people that are affected by this punishment, should take it, with all due respect to the children who were victimized for life.

Chris78
07-26-2012, 07:37 PM
I agree. There were crimes knowingly committed, against children, on the Penn State campus and the powers that be at Penn State tried to cover it up. I think the people that are affected by this punishment, should take it, with all due respect to the children who were victimized for life.


Time will tell how severe the situation and impact will be. If the situation ends up affecting too many innocent people, I disagree with that. I felt that way when I heard the decision and I know others feel the same way.

GoTigers
07-26-2012, 09:25 PM
I feel like Im taking crazy pills.. Chris, nobody outside of the PSU cult feels like the penalties were too severe. Nobody cares if PSU ever plays football again, nobody will ever cheer for that team that didnt go there. The way the fans and admin have handled this, will make PSU the black sheep of college football forever.

I have no respect for the school or fans anymore. All i hear is bellyaching about the penalties. Its like the fans dont care, or understand, or have let it sink in that the people in charge LET CHILDREN GET RAPED. Not only did they not report the rapes.. They gave the guy an office and tickets and a position which enabled him to rape little boys.. Then the covered it up to protect a STUPID FREAKING FOOTBALL TEAM.

If the Alumni, or people in charge cared at all about the University, or academics they would have self imposed the death penalty. Instead the University students RIOT and MOAN about sanctions and the firing of a "Legend". It just proves that after all the events.. The environment that lead to this.. "Football is bigger than the University".. Is STILL alive at PSU.

It is disgusting and I will cheer every game that PSU looses from now on.

David
07-26-2012, 10:08 PM
It's a university for learning, not a semi-pro football team. Penn State had a culture where football was more important than academics and the football coach was revered as a demi-God. This was the cause of the scandal and every student and fan contributed to this culture.

If the university is about academics, then it's a good thing the power of football team has been scaled back. Alumni who care about academics should support this. They should be glad. And alumni who want the old Paterno balance of power care about football, not academics.

Hurting the students? Far from it. Scaling back the football teams power, helps student, now and in the future.

It's a scandal that football can have so much power and sway at any university. It's not just a Pen State thing.

Do you ever wonder why Cal Tech and MIT don't have Division I football teams, even when each school has a larger endowment than Penn State, Alabama or LSU? It's because they see their mission as, *gasp*, educating students.

David
07-26-2012, 10:15 PM
If you honestly care about the current and future students' welfare, hope Penn States shifts the power to academics. Because when a Penn State student applies to medical school, the medical schools are going to care about the academic standing of the university and not how many football games it won.

David
07-26-2012, 10:28 PM
I'll add that I did go to a Big 10 school and do follow their sports teams, but still think the size and influence of sports in universities can be ridiculous.

And P.s. my college has an excellent football team :) Regularly one of the best in the conference.

gingi79
07-26-2012, 11:39 PM
$60 million fine is an estimated loss of three seasons revenue. That means the football team generates $20 million A YEAR. No one on this website can possibly be naive enough to think staying quiet wasn't a monetary decision.

Colleges like this can preach academic integrity until they are blue in the face but you are kidding yourself if you think any school doesn't hold athtletics and the income therefrom above all else. PSU fans whose noses have been so far up in the air that they spray the ceiling when sneezing just got gut-punched. That pious attitude and swagger just dissolved into thin air like a stale fart.

metsbats
07-27-2012, 03:41 PM
Guys,

The Moderators have received a complaint about the content of this thread. We were considering closing it but decided to leave it open for constructive discussion/debate. However please be sensitive that there may be folks reading this who are or were associated with PSU so please frame your discussions with this in mind.

If we feel things get too heated or off topic we will lock the thread.

Thanks
David

Chris78
07-28-2012, 09:43 AM
By the way, Mike McQueary should have just gone to the police when he saw the incident.

I have read lots of different opinions that are all over the place from this board to the newspapers and beyond. The reality is too many people will be affected by the NCAA decision in my opinion. I would like to hear why this is not going to happen.

Chris

both-teams-played-hard
07-28-2012, 10:52 AM
Chris,

In my humble opinion, I think you should let this thread end. This topic is barely about sports and not at all about game used memorabilia. One old dirtbag ruined the lives of many people.
The Penn State football players who stand by their team and play this season are heroes. Be proud of that.

rufusandherschel
07-28-2012, 01:59 PM
Guys,

The Moderators have received a complaint about the content of this thread. We were considering closing it but decided to leave it open for constructive discussion/debate. However please be sensitive that there may be folks reading this who are or were associated with PSU so please frame your discussions with this in mind.

If we feel things get too heated or off topic we will lock the thread.

Thanks
David

Time to shut this thread down (as I thought Moderator Mike Specht previously had done).

halzeus
07-28-2012, 09:04 PM
The OP provided his opinion and others have provided their opposing viewpoints.

This is one of those topics that will never end.

Please close this thread. Thank you.

cohibasmoker
07-29-2012, 07:20 AM
I find the entire case interesting;

1) In 1998, the sexual abuse case was reported to the Police by Paterno and school officials and the case taken to the Grand jury. The Grand Jury (NOT PENN STATE) found there was NOT enough evidence and the case was thrown out.

2) In 1999, even though the case was dismissed, Penn State released the predator from Penn State.

3) There are claims that there was a massive cover-up. If there was such a cover-up, why weren't any school "academics" charged in the cover-up? I think an appropriate charge would be conspiracy.

4) I find it convenient that most of the blame was put on the dead guy. NICE

Just some thoughts,

Jim

coxfan
07-29-2012, 08:49 AM
I'm not opposed to closing this thread, but there are a couple of very general issues that have been created anew by NCAA's actions:

1) PRECEDENT: Although the NCAA justified its actions by the word "unprecedented", their very actions have now created a precedent that may prove untenable over the long term. The NCAA has now extended its prerogatives far beyond its traditional role of assuring fair play on the field; and thus given themselves almost unlimited power to act to any extent they wish, whenever legal issues of any kind arise anywhere. I see this as a poorly-thought out action they may regret in time, for it could probably receive a strong legal challenge.

2) REWRITING HISTORY: The vacating of over 100 wins is a paper exercise that ignores the fact that those games were won by hundreds of hard-working athletes. Now, nobody's records anywhere will ever be secure, as NCAA has shown that it observes no statute of limitations on rewriting history at will.

In fact, vacating wins only confuses a historical record that will probably remain intact without regard to the NCAA's retroactive changing of results attained for many years back. I cannot see other colleges revising their media guides en masse to change their losses to Penn State into wins, anymore than I can MLB vacating tainted HR records, or the games those tainted HR's helped to win.

cohibasmoker
07-29-2012, 10:23 AM
I find the entire case interesting;

1) In 1998, the sexual abuse case was reported to the Police by Paterno and school officials and the case taken to the Grand jury. The Grand Jury (NOT PENN STATE) found there was NOT enough evidence and the case was thrown out.

2) In 1999, even though the case was dismissed, Penn State released the predator from Penn State.

3) There are claims that there was a massive cover-up. If there was such a cover-up, why weren't any school "academics" charged in the cover-up? I think an appropriate charge would be conspiracy.

4) I find it convenient that most of the blame was put on the dead guy. NICE

Just some thoughts,

Jim

As a follow-up, below is a link to the Board of Directors for Division 1 of the NCAA. Note the members official duties

http://web1.ncaa.org/committees/committees_roster.jsp?CommitteeName=BOARD

Chris78
07-29-2012, 10:54 AM
I'm not opposed to closing this thread, but there are a couple of very general issues that have been created anew by NCAA's actions:

1) PRECEDENT: Although the NCAA justified its actions by the word "unprecedented", their very actions have now created a precedent that may prove untenable over the long term. The NCAA has now extended its prerogatives far beyond its traditional role of assuring fair play on the field; and thus given themselves almost unlimited power to act to any extent they wish, whenever legal issues of any kind arise anywhere. I see this as a poorly-thought out action they may regret in time, for it could probably receive a strong legal challenge.

2) REWRITING HISTORY: The vacating of over 100 wins is a paper exercise that ignores the fact that those games were won by hundreds of hard-working athletes. Now, nobody's records anywhere will ever be secure, as NCAA has shown that it observes no statute of limitations on rewriting history at will.

In fact, vacating wins only confuses a historical record that will probably remain intact without regard to the NCAA's retroactive changing of results attained for many years back. I cannot see other colleges revising their media guides en masse to change their losses to Penn State into wins, anymore than I can MLB vacating tainted HR records, or the games those tainted HR's helped to win.

Thank you for your comments. It is related to what I am saying/thinking since last Monday. I also feel this way with any college and not just Penn State.

I also agree with the comment by trying to put the blame on a dead man. If I am not mistaken, Joe Paterno was never charged in the cover up.

Time will only tell on how this all plays out. I personally feel that the title I placed on my thread "NCAA's Poor Leadership" is going to be the end result. The NCAA is abusing their power. Keep in mind, two people at Penn State face charges and have not even gone to court yet.

philliephyl
07-29-2012, 05:26 PM
ncaa has way overstepped their bounds. for many many yrs they have stayed out of handing out violations when a criminal situation is involved because they say the courts will handle it.
They have a long history of keeping their hands off. last yr notre dame players rape a girl and threaten her if she goes to the cops. she ended up committing suicide. ncaa said they had no jurisdiction.
also at notre dame was the outdoor practice on a windy day and one of the student managers fell off the skeleton lift thingy and died. the coach said first priority is getting the team ready for saturday, then he said it was safety. after a couple days he switched his remarks. but ncaa said they couldn't get involved.
baylor bball in the early 200's, one player kills another player and the coach tells the players to lie to the cops about it. ncaa says they have no jurisdiction.
cam newton's dad offers to sell his son to mississppi state. ncaa doesn't punish anyone because there were no rules in place forbidding that.
I'm not saying anyone of these things is worse than the other or how it compares with what sandusky did. all are horrible situations.

one of the issues was giving one or a couple men to much power. so the board of the ncaa gave all of the power to emeritt. and used every bit of his power.


a point on sandusky's retirement package. he was given that package before the charges were brought up. charges brought up but never charged. then he retired. there was no reason to alter anything. then after the 01 incident joe said he didn't want jerry in the football bldg, but was told by the board he didn't have that authority.

metsbats
07-29-2012, 06:54 PM
Closing this now as it was on a short leash anyway.

Thanks for the feedback.