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View Full Version : Loss of Paperwork = Loss of Value



commando
06-11-2012, 04:39 PM
I'm sure we've all lost things in the past.... Our house key, our receipt for the cans of tuna we bought last week, and maybe even our cell phone. But SHAME ON YOU if you lose the team/company paperwork that goes with your newer game used item!

I rarely, IF EVER, buy an item where the paperwork was supposedly lost. The exception for me is if it is a vintage item, which is easy enough to judge on its own merits. Even so, it is a shame when the chain of provenance disappears.

I will not touch newer, lightly-used items with a ten-foot pole if the paperwork was lost. I think oftentimes that the seller never intended to sell the item, and felt the paperwork wasn't important (kind of the same principle as adding patches to a GU jersey or wearing it around because you thought you'd never sell it).

You can do what you want with an item you own.... But be ready to pay the price when the piece is altered or the paperwork is lost.

David
06-11-2012, 06:36 PM
I agree. I've heard people, including on here, say paper work means nothing to them and that they just toss it away. That's a perfectly fine personal choice and I'm not saying there's anything wrong with those sentiments. Just realize that when you resell, many bidders may not share those sentiments.

yankees506
06-11-2012, 09:59 PM
As someone who has lost many loa's over the years Ive always known that even items that come with holograms attached will have to be discounted when I lose the LOA. That being said Ive become more careful in regards to storing loa's, to me an loa on a solid item isnt a dealbreaker.

jppopma
06-16-2012, 12:19 PM
People need to remember that when selling a jersey, it is not what you feel is/was important....but what the buyer feels is important.

G1X
06-16-2012, 06:15 PM
People need to remember that when selling a jersey, it is not what you feel is/was important....but what the buyer feels is important.

Well said. While paperwork seems to be a real important priority to some collectors, it has very little bearing in the decision-making process of other collectors. There are many in the hobby in which their purchases are not predicated on paperwork, and paperwork has little or no bearing on what they feel a particular piece is worth.

Sure, you might lose a number of potential buyers if you lose your paperwork, but for those who do not collect paper with their game-used items, it just doesn't matter whether you have that piece of paper when selling your item. You might see the paperwork as holding value, but there are a number of collectors in the hobby who put little or no value on the paper, or perhaps just don't care one way or the other whether paperwork accompanies the item.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

Always looking for World Football League game-worn items.

commando
06-16-2012, 08:11 PM
Well said. While paperwork seems to be a real important priority to some collectors, it has very little bearing in the decision-making process of other collectors. There are many in the hobby in which their purchases are not predicated on paperwork, and paperwork has little or no bearing on what they feel a particular piece is worth.

Sure, you might lose a number of potential buyers if you lose your paperwork, but for those who do not collect paper with their game-used items, it just doesn't matter whether you have that piece of paper when selling your item. You might see the paperwork as holding value, but there are a number of collectors in the hobby who put little or no value on the paper, or perhaps just don't care one way or the other whether paperwork accompanies the item.

Mark,

You're speaking like a pre-1990s collector, which I know you are. And regarding these older items, I agree with you 100%. But what about these newer megastar jerseys and helmets with no provenance? How does a legit, game-used Mark Sanchez or Tim Tebow jersey make its way into the hobby without documentation? If a potential buyer believes the "I lost the paperwork" story, surely they won't pay the same amount as a jersey with a team letter.

gingi79
06-17-2012, 03:41 PM
Every JO item came with paperwork.....

The LOA thing has been going on since the 1980's. Autographs and game worns alike. Buyers want to know who to sue when and if something is fake (which a large number of non-collectors feel includes the majority of our items thanks to Operation Foul Ball and the ever popular "Yeah, you photomatched it but how do you KNOW it's real") I swear, pooping in someone else's cereal is the number one hobby people indulge in today.

G1X
06-18-2012, 09:23 AM
Mark,

You're speaking like a pre-1990s collector, which I know you are. And regarding these older items, I agree with you 100%. But what about these newer megastar jerseys and helmets with no provenance? How does a legit, game-used Mark Sanchez or Tim Tebow jersey make its way into the hobby without documentation? If a potential buyer believes the "I lost the paperwork" story, surely they won't pay the same amount as a jersey with a team letter.

Yes, I mostly collect pre-1990 (actually have a lot of stuff from the 1990s as well), but I have a few current-era items in my collection sourced directly from legitimate team sources in legitimate purchases that are game-worn items. For example, I recently picked up a Stephen Stasburg BP top and Ryan Zimmerman game jersey from the Nats game-used kiosk at Nationals Park. There are no holograms or paperwork, and the team sold them as "team issued" since the authenticator wasn't there when the jerseys were removed, nor was he present to "collect" them for MLB hologram purposes . Both of these jerseys are "no doubters" with nice game use.

I have several Atlanta Falcons jerseys of perennial Pro Bowl receiver Roddy White. All have paperwork except for one that was obtained legitimately from the team, but without paperwork. The jersey without the paperwork shows great game use and is a "no doubter" as well.

I have made several team buys over the past 10 years, and while most of the jerseys were commons, there were occasional star jerseys in the mix (including at least two players who are now in the Hall-of-Fame). In making bulk buys from teams, I generally do not ask for team documentation since most of the shirts are "commons" and it is not worth the hassle to me or the team, but even when a star player or two are included, I still do not ask.

When all is said and done, legitimate stuff still gets out into the hobby without paperwork, and those who feel comfortable with what they see will not hesitate in making the purchase at a fair market value, regardless of whether there is accompanying paperwork.

As for me, I am not looking to sell any of the above mentioned jerseys, so why should paperwork really matter to me anyway, especially since it doesn't matter to me to begin with on any item? I do not think that I am alone in this regard.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

Always looking for World Football League game-worn items.

Shipp_96
06-18-2012, 11:16 AM
I will say though I agree wholeheartedly with the paperwork argument = increase in value, however there are some schools and NFL teams that simply do not provide that. The Seattle Seahawks are infamous for not giving you anything other than an ID equipment tag they have inside of their jerseys and helmets. If you keep the receipt from your purchase that certainly helps, but you will not get anything else from the team.

Ditto for many Universities. I cannot tell you how many of my helmets I have won in auctions that ship directly from the school's equipment room, and they come with nothing but an email confirming I won and a packing slip. Sometimes when you buy from the school on the spot (like at a garage sale or student book store sale) you will not even get that.

I love paperwork as much as the next person and keep all of mine, but the bottom line is many times it is still not provided even in 2012.

commando
06-18-2012, 11:21 AM
I agree with both of you guys. My original point was more along the lines of "Here's a great Derek Jeter jersey that I bought from Steiner, but I LOST the paperwork." Huh? How do you LOSE the paperwork on a Jeter????

David
06-18-2012, 12:13 PM
I've bought autographs from reputable places like Lelands where there was no LOA, and printed out a copy of the auction listing as record. That has worked fine and resale as the auction listing pictured the autograph.

legaleagle92481
06-18-2012, 01:19 PM
I think some people are confusing the issue. Most items are not unique. If you buy a Cano jersey from Steiner there are many others also out there from Steiner. You buy a Durant jersey from MeiGray there are several others out there from Meigray. If you lose the LOA your Cano or Durant jersey is going to sell for less than a jersey that comes with the Steiner or Meigray LOA respectively. Alot of collectors pay a premium for an item because it is from those companies. The premium is lost if you don't have the LOA so the item will lose value.

G1X
06-19-2012, 12:25 PM
I think some people are confusing the issue. Most items are not unique. If you buy a Cano jersey from Steiner there are many others also out there from Steiner. You buy a Durant jersey from MeiGray there are several others out there from Meigray. If you lose the LOA your Cano or Durant jersey is going to sell for less than a jersey that comes with the Steiner or Meigray LOA respectively. Alot of collectors pay a premium for an item because it is from those companies. The premium is lost if you don't have the LOA so the item will lose value.

The premium is lost only to those who put value in the paperwork to begin with and are willing to pay a premium for those items because of the paperwork. Again, not all collectors put value on the paperwork and might feel perfectly comfortable with the particular item because of their experience, knowledge, and research on the items that they collect. For those collectors, price and paperwork are usually mutually exclusive.

I understand the original point of the thread and I certainly don't disagree with what is being said. My point is that there are collectors out there who will buy your items at a fair market price even if you lost the paperwork (or regardless of whether you ever had paperwork).

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

Always looking for World Football League game-worn items.

David
06-19-2012, 12:42 PM
When you're auctioning your jersey on eBay, you want both types of collectors to be bidding. It's not an either/or proposition, but a both/and when you want to collectors bidding. Whether or not you dislike paperwork personally, you want all the bidders and their money you can get at resale time. You can both hate paperwork and keep it for future bidders' benefit-- and your personal profit.

marino13
06-19-2012, 02:07 PM
The premium is lost only to those who put value in the paperwork to begin with and are willing to pay a premium for those items because of the paperwork. Again, not all collectors put value on the paperwork and might feel perfectly comfortable with the particular item because of their experience, knowledge, and research on the items that they collect. For those collectors, price and paperwork are usually mutually exclusive.

I understand the original point of the thread and I certainly don't disagree with what is being said. My point is that there are collectors out there who will buy your items at a fair market price even if you lost the paperwork (or regardless of whether you ever had paperwork).

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

Always looking for World Football League game-worn items.


If you can point those so called "collectors" my way, and when I sold them "fair market value" of the Brooklyn bridge which connected to the newly Brooklyn Nets - whom will play the entire NBA league, which will give me access a lot of their game used jersey off their back - you will get 25% finder fee.

:D

No one in their right mind would pay for anything "fair market value" without some kind of paper works. Unless I saw Jeter handed the bat over to a person, and then that person wants to sell it to me for $500 - then that bat will forever stay in my collection! :D

camarokids
06-20-2012, 10:08 AM
The item should speak for itself. Even if you have the paperwork, the item could be suspect. Paperwork can be switched or forged.

A game used Derek Jeter bat will speak authenticity by itself.

Jags Fan Dan
06-20-2012, 11:22 AM
If you can point those so called "collectors" my way, and when I sold them "fair market value" of the Brooklyn bridge which connected to the newly Brooklyn Nets - whom will play the entire NBA league, which will give me access a lot of their game used jersey off their back - you will get 25% finder fee.

:D

No one in their right mind would pay for anything "fair market value" without some kind of paper works. Unless I saw Jeter handed the bat over to a person, and then that person wants to sell it to me for $500 - then that bat will forever stay in my collection! :D
If you were a Brunell collector, what kind of paperwork would you need to see on this jersey before you would buy it? Would you de-value it due to lack of paperwork? Let's just say if it was on eBay and you thought you might get a deal on it because of no paperwork, there are collectors who would make sure you wouldn't.

commando
06-20-2012, 12:10 PM
If you were a Brunell collector, what kind of paperwork would you need to see on this jersey before you would buy it? Would you de-value it due to lack of paperwork? Let's just say if it was on eBay and you thought you might get a deal on it because of no paperwork, there are collectors who would make sure you wouldn't.

Apparently all your Brunells must be dirty like that. But if some are not, and show little to no use, then that's what I'm talking about.

Nice jersey by the way. I don't feel like I need paperwprk for this jersey, either:

Jags Fan Dan
06-20-2012, 12:18 PM
Apparently all your Brunells must be dirty like that. But if some are not, and show little to no use, then that's what I'm talking about.

Nice jersey by the way. I don't feel like I need paperwprk for this jersey, either:
No, they are not all nearly that dirty, but I wish they were!:D I do love a trashed jersey, nice one!!!

Jags Fan Dan
06-20-2012, 12:34 PM
And I guess I should be more specific in my response. My point is that I am of the opinion that while paper work may be nice, it's absence should not necessarily be a deal breaker. The Brunell jersey I showed does not have any, and I don't think if it were for sale that anybody would care that it doesn't have paperwork. Obviously, it is an extreme example, but as camarokids said, the item has to speak for itself at some point.

Another personal example I have is a pair of Jay Bruce batting gloves I bought not too long ago. They style match to 2008. They are signed and inscribed "game used 2008". They were reportedly obtained from Just Minors, but the seller lost the COA. But they look identical to other Just Minors Jay Bruce gloves I have seen, the signature matches up, and the style match as mentioned was good. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, I'll accept that it's a duck without the paperwork.

commando
06-20-2012, 01:53 PM
And I guess I should be more specific in my response. My point is that I am of the opinion that while paper work may be nice, it's absence should not necessarily be a deal breaker. The Brunell jersey I showed does not have any, and I don't think if it were for sale that anybody would care that it doesn't have paperwork. Obviously, it is an extreme example, but as camarokids said, the item has to speak for itself at some point.

Another personal example I have is a pair of Jay Bruce batting gloves I bought not too long ago. They style match to 2008. They are signed and inscribed "game used 2008". They were reportedly obtained from Just Minors, but the seller lost the COA. But they look identical to other Just Minors Jay Bruce gloves I have seen, the signature matches up, and the style match as mentioned was good. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, I'll accept that it's a duck without the paperwork.

Very well said, Dan. Here's the kind of jersey that worries most of us.... Here is a fully-tagged 2001 Jerry Rice Raiders jersey currently on eBay. B-E Collectibles is selling it and are clearly stating the jersey is NOT GAME USED. A very, very nice jersey, and B-E is a great seller... But it can be easily purchased by someone who creates a new story for it. If I owned a game-used Rice Raiders jersey, I'd keep a close eye on this type of thing. It's too bad that eBay has become so anonymous...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2001-Oakland-Raiders-NFL-Professional-Model-Jersey-80-Jerry-Rice-/330752574220?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4d0263c30c

tella27
06-20-2012, 02:56 PM
When you can photo match a jersey or item to being game used it's always best. The thing is people are faking GU jerseys and bats (I remember there being a thread about a certain member adding his own "touches" to a bat). When people are spending hundreds and sometimes thousands of dollars on items there are always going to people that fake them. Items don't always have paper work but it really comes down to doing your homework on an item.

jppopma
06-20-2012, 06:43 PM
While a perfect photo match is better than any LOA in my opinion...there are some pretty odd buyers out there. Even if 9 of 10 people are okay without paperwork, that one oddball not bidding would still equate to a loss of value.

If a major Brunell fan was looking for a jersey like that and had a wild hair that he wanted to get it framed (and have the LOA framed with it)...it could result in a lower price or maybe even a blown deal.

We can't always expect or understand what a "customer" wants. Most of us on the forum are like minded, but we are not the only customer base out there.

legaleagle92481
06-21-2012, 11:44 PM
How many true photo matches are there really? Most of what I see people claim to be photo matches are really style matches. Many jerseys have no distinct markings on them and are impossible to photomatch.

marino13
06-22-2012, 12:00 PM
How many true photo matches are there really? Most of what I see people claim to be photo matches are really style matches. Many jerseys have no distinct markings on them and are impossible to photomatch.


Amen.

If there is one PERFECT photomatched item, there are 1000s of non-photomatch items.

I will not PURCHASED any item without proper LOA/COA - photomatched doesnt do it for me.

MikeSharon
06-26-2012, 07:24 PM
I agree with an earlier poster who stated the item should speak for itself. How many mistakes have the so called experts made and then been called out on here on this forum. To give a brief example Nolan Ryan rainbow Astros jerseys from 1984-1986 made by goodman and sons. The goodman Astros jerseys never had tags in the collars yet we have all seen numerous examples of that jersey with a goodman tag in the collar auctioned off with LOA stating they game used they were not could not have been because that is not how the company made them at the time. The person who buys a item with an LOA simply because of the letter is asking to be taken advantage of. Do your research and make sure you know what you are buying before you buy it dont rely on a someone who you most probabaly have never met opinion because that all most LOA's are is some ones opinion.

G1X
06-27-2012, 12:33 PM
I agree with an earlier poster who stated the item should speak for itself. How many mistakes have the so called experts made and then been called out on here on this forum. To give a brief example Nolan Ryan rainbow Astros jerseys from 1984-1986 made by goodman and sons. The goodman Astros jerseys never had tags in the collars yet we have all seen numerous examples of that jersey with a goodman tag in the collar auctioned off with LOA stating they game used they were not could not have been because that is not how the company made them at the time. The person who buys a item with an LOA simply because of the letter is asking to be taken advantage of. Do your research and make sure you know what you are buying before you buy it dont rely on a someone who you most probabaly have never met opinion because that all most LOA's are is some ones opinion.

The bold, underlined comments in Mike's above statement are some of the wisest words of wisdom ever posted in this forum. I am amazed and somewhat saddened at the number of "paper collectors" in this Forum who are hooked and dependent on pieces of paper. As I have stated on previous occasions, I have a drawer full of paperwork I've received over the years containing errors, omissions, and various other types of misinformation. The bad paperwork comes from all corners of the hobby ranging from poor research by authenticators to teams and leagues that make glaring mistakes, not to mention paperwork provided by ill-informed sellers and outright dishonesty by others.

I understand the fact that some collectors do not have the time and/or inclination to do their homework and become experts in what they collect, and it is certainly not my place to dictate to them that they do so, or insist that my way is the right way of doing things. However, I can plead to those of you who consider yourselves to be "serious" collectors. Please kick the habit! Do your homework and study the items you collect. Become your own expert so that you do not have to depend on the paper.

If you truly love collecting game-used items and take the time to study this craft, it will be quite rewarding when you get to the point where you no longer need a piece of paper to tell you what you already know. Not only will you greatly benefit from this, you will also be helping your fellow collectors and the hobby in general.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

Looking for World Football League (1974/75) game-used items

joelsabi
06-27-2012, 12:49 PM
As Ronald Reagan use to say "Trust but verify"

WadeInBmore
06-27-2012, 02:04 PM
While paperwork isn't the end all be all, it is now to have a paper trail. Its hard to say how many times items with some age hit the market with no paper trail and people get up in arms about it.

I've bought items with and without... I try to do my homework the best that I can. I do think it's neat when you know where the item came from and who has owned the item over time.

While the COA/LOA may not be needed for some items, it sure doesn't hurt anything to have documentation with it. BUT as its already been stated, that paper doesn't mean the item is "good".

coxfan
06-28-2012, 10:09 AM
As I noted in some earlier thread, my pet peeve is dealers who don't keep their own records adequately when they buy the items. As a result, their own paperwork thereafter is meaningless. All it takes is one break in the provenance trail.

marino13
06-28-2012, 05:10 PM
As I noted in some earlier thread, my pet peeve is dealers who don't keep their own records adequately when they buy the items. As a result, their own paperwork thereafter is meaningless. All it takes is one break in the provenance trail.


If MLB database somehow mess-up .... there go my game used collection!


:mad:


99% of my MLB game used is MLB authenticated.

David
06-28-2012, 05:34 PM
Two points:

1) The initial post was titled "Loss of Paperwork" not items where there never was paperwork. Different topics.

2) At resale time, it' find and dandy and wonderful and fandidlytastic that you think paperwork is akin to the black plague and should be destroyed asap. I give three cheers, a brass plaque and a box of chocolate to you for your beliefs. But, despite your wonderful and heavenly beliefs, many to most of the bidders in your auction will desire paperwork. They may be stupid cretins who never graduated from the third grade and put on their pants backward, but they will still like paperwork for their $$. If you only sell or auction off to people who share your exact beliefs (even if these people are total numbskulls), you'll be throwing away money.

In short, you maybe 100% correct in your beliefs, but you'll still be throwing away money if you put those LOAs in the shredder. You have to face the facts that evil dullard paperwork lovers bid in auctions too. And they often have lots of money to bid too. If you want to turn away their money, that's your pick.

David
06-28-2012, 05:39 PM
The long and short of it is it's fine to have your beliefs and sentiments but don't assume that everyone will share your beliefs and sentiments. It may seem really dumb to you, but many buyers like paperwork. Why someone would shred their LOAs instead of keeping them so they can't attract those buyers is beyond me. Unless that someone has a desire for your items to auction for less.

If a buyer will pay $100 if I include a green napkin with the item, you know what? I'm going to include that green napkin. I don't even have to know why he wants a green napkin. I'm certainly not going to say "You can't have a green napkin. Keep your $100."

David
06-28-2012, 05:53 PM
The earlier point is good that LOAs can serve as provenance. The LOAs may not always be reliable in describing the item, but they do give a record where the item came from. That an old auction catalog or LOA show the bat is in the same state now as it was in a 1998 auction is no small detail, considering how many game used items have been altered for eBay in the last month and in the next month. Also, LOAs can say a bat came from a significant source, like a player's estate or team executive. There's no question this is relevant information to keep on record.

David
06-28-2012, 06:01 PM
If a bat can speak for itself, would that mean if it included a letter from the player stating it came from his personal collection, you would throw that that paperwork away? I assume you wouldn't. I also assume you'd keep the paperwork when it is an auction house LOA stating, in part, that the bat was consigned by the deceased player's family. These are instances where, I assume, everyone agrees the paperwork can provide valuable documentation.

David
06-28-2012, 06:06 PM
And, even if you don't need or like paperwork, I assume you can appreciate that potential bidders would wish for those documents included as part of the sale.

David
06-28-2012, 06:20 PM
One very last point. You or I may be experts in our collecting and/or dealing fields, but that doesn't mean all collectors are. For better or ill, many collectors are more casual and less learned, and value second or third opinions in the forms of LOAs. A Yankee fan may not be a game used bat expert, so he values one that comes with a Steiner LOA. You in all your brilliance and years of study and reams of game used data may not need the Steiner LOA, but he does. And there are far more buyers like him than you.

Jags Fan Dan
06-28-2012, 07:25 PM
I think David makes a valid point. In general, without a photo matchable piece, an LOA gives Joe Six Pack or Marty Mouthbreather a sense of security, deservedly or not, about the piece and therefore the LOA is potentially adding to the final hammer price if you are auctioning said piece in an open marketplace.

coxfan
06-29-2012, 09:08 AM
Regarding computer-only documentation such a database, it's good idea to print a copy of the database description. Then when you do your own research on the item and learn more about its history of use, such as going through the play-by-play or video record, you should add your own written notes to your printed copy of the database entry.

This can actually add provenance to the trail for the future, as well as protect yourself against any future database problem.

marino13
06-29-2012, 09:58 AM
Regarding computer-only documentation such a database, it's good idea to print a copy of the database description. Then when you do your own research on the item and learn more about its history of use, such as going through the play-by-play or video record, you should add your own written notes to your printed copy of the database entry.

This can actually add provenance to the trail for the future, as well as protect yourself against any future database problem.



No way I am printing out 100s of the MLB holograms.

Other collectors might have done this - I convert all the pending printouts to PDFs and save them.

Now when I need them, I can just go to my file folder and peek for info from there.

G1X
06-29-2012, 10:00 AM
David,

I don't think that very many collectors are intentionally tossing or shredding their paperwork. Speaking for myself, I am not a paper collector, but if I have paperwork, I pass it along when I sell or trade an item. I would assume that most do the same. If there are obvious errors in the paperwork, I point this out to the buyer.

One of the main points I was trying to convey in an earlier post is this: If there is a legitimate game-used item that is valued at $1,000, there are some of us who are willing to pay $1,000 for the item regardless of whether there is paper work. The lack of paper work neither de-values the item nor makes us walk away if we feel comfortable with the item being what it supposed to be. I think that most of us are well aware that others do not have the same comfort level for various reasons, and regardless of what any of us think about paper work, there is no "right" or "wrong" in how anyone chooses to set their parameters and comfort level.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

nevrdiez34
06-29-2012, 10:06 AM
I created a binder with sheet protectors that contains every letter of authenticity or accompaning paperwork that I own so that I avoid losing an individual sheet or sheets that would lower the value of most items.

joelsabi
06-29-2012, 10:41 AM
Regarding computer-only documentation such a database, it's good idea to print a copy of the database description. Then when you do your own research on the item and learn more about its history of use, such as going through the play-by-play or video record, you should add your own written notes to your printed copy of the database entry.

This can actually add provenance to the trail for the future, as well as protect yourself against any future database problem.

if the database goes down permanently for any reason mlb would be forced to send out certificates to owners , after verification of the item in hand. mlb even says the printout are for display purposes only. if there is no online verification it would be a serious headache for collectors. a printout of the authentication would be for your own benefit but should mean nothing to another person when selling it. as a word of caution, the hologram number on the item should be verified online because everyone should know that a printout can be easily doctored using a photoshop type software.

and if you dont like how it display, why not just start from scratch and make it look or say how you want. here's the template.

coxfan
06-29-2012, 01:38 PM
Thanks for the useful observations from all of us. An MLB hologram's the only official authentication intended by MLB. But most of us enjoy finding out more about our items through more research, and many potential future owners might enjoy seeing this added info even if your notes are unofficial.

Maybe I'm old-fashioned at 63, but I still think paper's a valuable backup system that can't be erased or invaded by viruses or spyware.

joelsabi
06-29-2012, 01:48 PM
Thanks for the useful observations from all of us. An MLB hologram's the only official authentication intended by MLB. But most of us enjoy finding out more about our items through more research, and many potential future owners might enjoy seeing this added info even if your notes are unofficial.

Maybe I'm old-fashioned at 63, but I still think paper's a valuable backup system that can't be erased or invaded by viruses or spyware.

i must be oldschool too because i enjoy finding out more about the items i own or want to own. the unofficial uncovered notes are sometimes the best. there have been some nice post on the forum of uncovered information about a item after further investigation which the current owner did not realize. to me that is what make the hobby fun.

camarokids
07-01-2012, 03:39 PM
If a bat can speak for itself, would that mean if it included a letter from the player stating it came from his personal collection, you would throw that that paperwork away?

What is meant by what I posted, is that YOU need to judge the item on its own merits. If the item is legit, it will speak to you by what is there and what isn't. Such as a number stamped on the knob for a retail bats, like a 3, 4 or 5. Is there a line under the 125 in the centerbrand? Does the bat have Flame Tempered instead of Powerized? Is there a model number stamped above the players name, starting in 1976. Prior to 1976 it was on the knob.

Don't let the piece of paper do the talking for the item!

I have over 430 game used bats, most all are without paperwork. I am fine with that. Because a legitimate game used bat, will speak for itself!!!