Montana Game Worn Chiefs jersey w Montana LOA

[mmonte4]

I'm not a football guy, but even I would love to have this one!

http://www.huntauctions.com/live/imageviewer.cfm?auction_num=35&lot_num=1&lot_qual=f

Interested to hear some commentary about this piece.

[packerfan]

Did Montana really wear a jersey that small? He's seems like a 46 or 48.

[mmonte4]

Did Montana really wear a jersey that small? He's seems like a 46 or 48.

anyone care to respond? i have nothing to offer when it comes to nfl

[sox83cubs84]

I noticed the text quoted in Hunt's description cites it as "1994 game jersey", not 1994 game-worn (or game-used) jersey" Could it be a pro-cut, never worn, signed and authentciated by Joe with no attempt by Joe to indicate game wear (and an error by Hunt's)? I agree, 40 is awful small...44 or 46 would seem more in line.

Dave Miedema

[solarlottry]

As a 49er GU collector for the past 20 years I have had the good fortune to own and examine quite a few authentic game used and some no so authentic Montana jerseys. Plus I have followed most of the Montana items that have been auctioned over that time frame, so I have a fairly reasonable idea as to what size he wore from 1979-1992.

The 49ers wore Wilson from 1979-1983 and from 1990-1990. During the 79-83 time frame at least 3 authentic GU Montana shirts have been sold and both were size 44. Grey Flannel also sold a supposed "rookie era" gamer in 1999 that had a custom hem and thus no size.

From 1990-1992, which is basically the 1990 season as Montana missed all of 1991 and only played in one game in 1992, Wilson was also worn. By this point Montana was wearing a size 46. The team was selling his gamers via their equipment manager, Bronco Hinek, and I distinctly remember jersey size being a major factor in determining authenticity. 98% of Montana jerseys sold that season had a 49er team letter, signed in ink by Bronco and mentioning the jersey size.

As a collector living in SF at the time and actively looking for a GU Montana shirt, I remember discussing the size issue with a number of other collectors. Based upon their direct interaction with Bronco it determined that any shirt that was not a size 46 was probably not authentic.

The team wore Russell from 1984-1989 and Montana wore a size 44. I have seen quite a few authentic Russell Montana gamers and all were size 44. Again the team sold quite a few shirts each with a team letter also mentioning size. My sample size with regard to his authentic Russell gamers is fairly large as I have been able check out a number of 49er collections and all have been a size 44.

I have attached a few images of the Wilson and Russell tagging showing the size of each shirt.

With this information I would bid carefully on the Hunt KC Montana "game jersey"! As Dave stated, the inscription "game jersey" does not, in any way, say that the jersey was game worn. The Montana LOA may state something different so before bidding I would ask what exactly the Montana LOA states.

Always buying quality 49ers GU items and ALL 1994 49er GU items!

Paul
garciajones@yahoo.com

[nickacs]

I emailed Hunt Auction a few hours ago and Mr. David Hunt replied back to me with this email. I know he must be super busy with his auction, so it was a pleasure to hear back in just a couple hours!


"Nick,
Attached are the letters for the Montana pieces. Additionally, I can tell you that we communicated directly with Joe and his representative who fully confirmed he wore the jersey. I can also tell you that one problem with using comparative examples for authentication is that the other examples that are used are often times themselves not authentic which of course causes the concern. At any rate, we can tell you that we guarantee the offered jersey 100%.

Thanks,
David"

[gingi79]

Barry at MeiGray was selling a Montana photomatched from the 1980s a few months ago. It is no longer on the site but he may be able to add another expert opinion on sizing if someone cares to email him.

[nickacs]

Just doing a quick Google search for 94 Montana jerseys, here's a white 1994 KC Montana from HA auction in 2006 that sold for ~$1800:

http://www.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=86081&lotNo=90352&type=temsport081506


Size tagging pic.. Interesting it's size 44 and not 40? But this jersey didn't have any solid provenance, so who knows..

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/JOXl5lgkDg3thv2ssXihobFobBgEQHIUUmCtAeY09BoCa5D5LK aQeJN37xdQBJ75zIWrxozLsax_NoI7Vl8vVwzSSGuqF6ehBszN 20ICwc33XX7jOCs

[aeneas01]

I emailed Hunt Auction a few hours ago and Mr. David Hunt replied back to me with this email. I know he must be super busy with his auction, so it was a pleasure to hear back in just a couple hours!
imo dave hunt is second to none when it comes to answering questions, promptly and thoroughly. as far as the montana helmet is concerned, it's an interesting piece with apparently sound provenance. my only concern is that the helmet model, schutt, isn't what montana can be seen wearing in game or practice photos / film footage when he was with the chiefs. montana wore this model almost exclusively when he played for the 49ers but switched to a riddell when he joined the chiefs - was this because of an endorsement deal, concussion concerns due to the concrete surface at arrowhead, something else? who knows. but i would want to see at least one photo of montana sporting a schutt helmet as chief before i felt more comfortable about this helmet. fwiw i think hunt is stating that it was his practice helmet...

[jppopma]

I have noticed that Hunt will often list jerseys as "game jerseys" and not come out and say "game used" or "game worn". I think they do this for liability purposes in case something turns out to not be what it appears. Pretty much their way of offering the item up but expecting buyers to still to their own homework.

[fbchiefs879]

i looked at a bunch of pictures from the 1994 season. I to talked with dave hunt and the email he sent me was identical. The problem I am having with it is that every picture that LOOKS like a match at first, I look at a little closer and it doesnt add up. If you go on getty or presswire, the patches are lines up with the line that goes across the NFL shield. Now this is also true for the jersey in the auction, HOWEVER, when I try to line up the patches with the numbers I am having some issues. The 35 patch on the left lines up to the top of the number "1". On the Hunt jersey, it goes down farther on the "1", which to me would indicate that the jersey in the hunt auction is smaller in size, hence the size 40 everyone is talking about. Now I know that there is a coa signed by Montana or whatever, but this just seems kind of strange to me, but maybe Im making a bigger deal out of it then I should. What do you guys think about that?

[aeneas01]

I have noticed that Hunt will often list jerseys as "game jerseys" and not come out and say "game used" or "game worn". I think they do this for liability purposes in case something turns out to not be what it appears. Pretty much their way of offering the item up but expecting buyers to still to their own homework.
hunt auctions will often do something similar with the game worn football helmets they list - they will describe them as "professional model" helmets. occasionally, as with the montana, hunt will describe a helmet as used or worn but not often.

i see the montana helmet sold for $5,500 - could be the winner got his hands on a helmet that was indeed worn by one of the greatest nfl qbs of all time. it's just unfortunate that the volumes of photos and footage of montana as a chief show him sporting a different helmet.

[solarlottry]

I think the price the jersey sold for reflects the apprehension that bidders had with regard to the size issue. If this had been a photo-matched KC Montana gamer, the price would have been double. I do not think that a genuine Montana KC shirt has been sold in years, if at all, so if this shirt had been the real deal it might have hit 15-20K!

I took a look at the LOA and the email that Hunt sent Nick and find it funny that Hunt would insinuate that all of the shirts used for comparison are fakes! Hunt must know that the team did sell authentic GU Montana jerseys, issued team letters and that these are in collectors hands. To say that the items we are using to help authenticate an item they are selling, are all fakes is a bit unrealistic. I am sure if I offered Hunt one of my GU Montana shirts, complete with team letter, that Hunt would jump on it!

The sale of the KC shirt (and helmet) is just another example of an auction house taking the players word and his LOA as proof that the item is what the player and LOA state it is. I think this is a very dangerous way of doing business. To not do one's own research and to base an items authenticity entirely on the players word and signature, eventually will lead to the sale of non authentic items.

Robert put it perfectly when after doing his own research, he stated that he could not come up with even a single image of JM in the helmet up for sale! He took it one step further and could not find any evidence that Montana actually wore that brand of helmet. Because it is described as a practice helmet there is much more room for doubt because every practice is not filmed etc and thus the helmet easily could have been worn without any photographic evidence.

If Hunt could produce a photo-match of either item, they would have. A match would have boosted the price of either item considerably. Just look at the price of the Brady shirt 46K! One would have to think that if either item was photo matched, then price would have risen accordingly.

With an auction such as the SB auction, there are many bidders who are not educated collectors. When they see a KC Montana jersey with his LOA stating it is game worn, they believe it and bid. Most have no idea how to style and photo-match jerseys and they assume that if Montana said he wore it, then he did. In this case though I think that the educated collector probably stayed away, thus the low hammer price.

Always buying quality 49er GU jerseys and ALL 1994 49er GU items! I pay a nice finders fee for info leading to a sale.

Paul
garciajones@yahoo.com

[project 4]

I think the price the jersey sold for reflects the apprehension that bidders had with regard to the size issue. If this had been a photo-matched KC Montana gamer, the price would have been double. I do not think that a genuine Montana KC shirt has been sold in years, if at all, so if this shirt had been the real deal it might have hit 15-20K!

I took a look at the LOA and the email that Hunt sent Nick and find it funny that Hunt would insinuate that all of the shirts used for comparison are fakes! Hunt must know that the team did sell authentic GU Montana jerseys, issued team letters and that these are in collectors hands. To say that the items we are using to help authenticate an item they are selling, are all fakes is a bit unrealistic. I am sure if I offered Hunt one of my GU Montana shirts, complete with team letter, that Hunt would jump on it!

The sale of the KC shirt (and helmet) is just another example of an auction house taking the players word and his LOA as proof that the item is what the player and LOA state it is. I think this is a very dangerous way of doing business. To not do one's own research and to base an items authenticity entirely on the players word and signature, eventually will lead to the sale of non authentic items.

Robert put it perfectly when after doing his own research, he stated that he could not come up with even a single image of JM in the helmet up for sale! He took it one step further and could not find any evidence that Montana actually wore that brand of helmet. Because it is described as a practice helmet there is much more room for doubt because every practice is not filmed etc and thus the helmet easily could have been worn without any photographic evidence.

If Hunt could produce a photo-match of either item, they would have. A match would have boosted the price of either item considerably. Just look at the price of the Brady shirt 46K! One would have to think that if either item was photo matched, then price would have risen accordingly.

With an auction such as the SB auction, there are many bidders who are not educated collectors. When they see a KC Montana jersey with his LOA stating it is game worn, they believe it and bid. Most have no idea how to style and photo-match jerseys and they assume that if Montana said he wore it, then he did. In this case though I think that the educated collector probably stayed away, thus the low hammer price.

Always buying quality 49er GU jerseys and ALL 1994 49er GU items! I pay a nice finders fee for info leading to a sale.

Paul
garciajones@yahoo.com

That's some good info. Being new to the hobby I would just assume that a legitimate player's inscription would be good enough to verify the validity of an item. So after reading this, is it safe to say that players would inscribe "game used" without it actually being real? I would think players would hesitate to do that because of legal implications.

[ivo610]

That's some good info. Being new to the hobby I would just assume that a legitimate player's inscription would be good enough to verify the validity of an item. So after reading this, is it safe to say that players would inscribe "game used" without it actually being real? I would think players would hesitate to do that because of legal implications.

I would suggest looking up the thread the on article on items authenticated and inscribed by Brett Favre.

[sox83cubs84]

That's some good info. Being new to the hobby I would just assume that a legitimate player's inscription would be good enough to verify the validity of an item. So after reading this, is it safe to say that players would inscribe "game used" without it actually being real? I would think players would hesitate to do that because of legal implications.

Some athletes will sign what is asked regardless of the actuality especially if they're getting paid for it. Also, some have no clue what they have and haven't worn. Bruce Bochte of the Angels once declared a home Angels knit of his I had as being fake under the explanation that "we wore buttondowns when I played there". Bochte's entire Angels career was spen in pullovers (which my jersey was).

Dave Miedema

[swainer]

Dave, I had a similar incident with Ndamukong Suh last month. I purchased his game worn home jersey from the MNF game against the Bears on 10/10/11 from NFL auctions. I went to the show in Chicago last month to have him sign it and inscribe "Game Used MNF vs. Bears 10/10/11". I set the jersey down so he could sign it on the back. I printed out what I wanted him to inscribe and he immediately said "But this isn't game worn". I pulled out my paperwork to show him. He glanced at it and said "whatever you say man" and inscribed what I wanted. I feel pretty good about the jersey being authentic (not many better sources than NFL auctions) but it still bothered me. I wish I would've asked him why he didn't think it was game worn. I'm hoping he doesn't have many game worn jersey floating around out there and that's the reason. He didn't flip it over to see the proper tagging or the proper lineman cut on the "sleeves". I'm still trying to photo match the jersey as I type. If anyone can assist, it would truly be appreciated!!!!

John