Help please with a couple of G/U bats

[TNTtoys]

All,

I have recently bought a lot of game used bats that contained some '86 Mets. I basically couldn't have the bats I wanted without buying all, and therefore have a couple that I am looking to unload for a fair price.

Is anyone out there an expert in this area?

If so, what price should I seek for the following --
- Billy Williams (HOF/Cubs)
- Bud Harrelson (Mets)

I wouldn't even know where to begin with these.

Thanks guys
Nick

[RobSteinmetz]

Nick,

After you've received some feedback from our resident bat experts, email me with some photos and a price on the Billy Williams bat. If it's a Cubs era bat, I'm interested.

Best,

[TNTtoys]

Rob,

Thanks for your note. I will not be home until late tonight, but I will take photos of the bat by tomorrow morning the latest and send them your way.

What I do know about the Williams bat without having it in front of me --

- It is definitely a Cubs era model.
- It is MEARS authenticated.
- It's a Louisville Slugger Genuine M110 model.

Regards,
Nick

[earlywynnfan]

a williams bat just closed through AMI, i believe; they show their past results, so i'd check there. ballpark, i'd estimate a well-used one would be 7-900. no idea on the harrelson.

ken

[TNTtoys]

a williams bat just closed through AMI, i believe; they show their past results, so i'd check there. ballpark, i'd estimate a well-used one would be 7-900. no idea on the harrelson.

ken

Hi Ken,

I just checked AMI -- The Billy Williams bat that sold there recently was an Oakland era late 70s bat with minimal use. I would imagine that it would be worth much less than mine.

[ChrisCavalier]

Hi Ken,

I just checked AMI -- The Billy Williams bat that sold there recently was an Oakland era late 70s bat with minimal use. I would imagine that it would be worth much less than mine.
Hello Nick,

I think you are correct in that the label period and use characteristics can be factors in the bat's potential value. Out of curiosity, would you be able to post the label period of the bat as well as the length and weight?

Thanks,
Chris

[bat_master]

Hi Everyone,

I would assume by looking at the records that the bat is either from 1962 (quite valuable) or 1975 (less valuable). It appears that Billy Williams only ordered M110 bats twice in two different lengths - 34" and 34.5". The 34" length was ordered in 1962 and should weigh 32 oz. The 34.5" length was ordered in 1975 in 33 oz with a flat knob.

I'm interested in this bat as well so I'm curious to know the specs as well. Sounds like a great bat!

Thanks

Tim Byington

[TNTtoys]

When I got home this evening, I inspected the Billy Williams bat.

Based on Tim's records, I can conclude that it's the 1962 model. The bat barely measures 34" -- there is no way that it could be the 34 1/2" from 1975. My bat also has a rounded knob -- if the 1975 came with a flat knob, then this should clinch it.

I will email the photos to all who responded to my email.

Thank you for all of the help in identifying what I have.

[bat_master]

Nick,

From the photos the bat is a 1977-79 era as in 1977 the model number was moved from the knob to the barrell. However, his career ended in 1976 so this is a post career bat with his uniform number on the knob. I'll have to defer this to another forum member with more knowledge than myself. Anyone?

Thanks Nick!

Tim

[TNTtoys]

That is really strange -- there must be some logical explanation. I am in the process of contacting MEARS, as they were the authenticators for this bat. I will let you know what I find out. In the meanwhile, if anyone out there could shine some light on this, please send me information as soon as possible...

[earlywynnfan]

any chance i can see scans of the bat? what does the MEARS letter say?

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

[TNTtoys]

Ken,

Here are a few of the scans of the bat. Maybe you and/or some of the others here could shine some light on the situation in the meanwhile. It makes no sense that the bat would be from 1977 if Williams played until 1976. It also doesn't make much sense that Williams would switch to a smaller, lighter bat so late in his career if he graduated up.

The bat was authenticated by MEARS as per the lot description, however, their letter was missing from the package... probably an oversight of the Auction house. I have since contacted them to forward me the letter. I have also mentioned this in my request to MEARS in the event they have a copy and could produce it quicker.

Nick

[earlywynnfan]

I think I remember this lot. was it Geppi's? the bat definitely dates to 77-79. perhaps the write-up would help? could you send a link? if this is from one big group, you may get a LOA that states it's a coach's/post career bat. I know Dave Bushing isn't infallible, but I don't really see him blowing one this bad.

Too bad, looks like a nice bat, great use and patina and all.

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

[TNTtoys]

Ken,

Yes, this was a Geppi's lot from the Rusty Staub and Phil Rizzuto collection. My intention, as I stated earlier was to keep the 1986 Mets bats & sell the remainder. The fact that there was a game used authenticated bat from a hall of famer made this extra attractive. To be honest, I would have been happy to get my money back for the lot and not make anything on the deal if it meant I would get mine for nothing.

Back to your info -- Is there a specific site you can recommend that I would be able to go & do my own evaluations so I don't have a 'mystery' situation like this one in future (I mean something told you it's possible it's a 1977-1979 bat)?

If in the event this is in fact a 1977-1979 bat, what would it be worth? I couldn't imagine it would be worth the same as the gamer.

I have emailed Dave Bushing earlier this morning regarding the bat... I hope to hear from him soon. I have also left an email and a voice mail at Geppi's.

Nick

[earlywynnfan]

http://www.gmrs.com/item.asp?Auction=3&LotNo=378

Well, the good news is i imagine you can still sell the bats you want and break even. The Harrelson bat looks very nice, you can ebay it or maybe consign it if you have time (for a bat of that caliber, I'd suggest Hunt Auctions??). The post-career Williams is probably worth $100-200, I'd figure. Again, Hunt might be a place to go.

The bad news is, I'm hoping you weren't buying the lot for the Hernandez gamer, because it's not one. It's a commemorative bat.

Crash course: if you are looking for gamers, run away from "flame tempered" bats and ones with the underlined "125" in the middle (see jeter bat on ebay currently.) There is a possibility that a player could have used one, but I'd give you better odds on playing the lotto. (Do you see Jeter walking into the team shop, buying a bat, and using it?)

You really want to go to ebay, look up seller "zanebats", and buy the MastroNet bat guide. Even if he doesn't have any posted, I'm sure he has a pile of them. An even better book is Vince Malta's book "Bats", but when one pops up it goes for big bucks. (someone on the forum here offered a few at $125, i think, and they were immediately snapped up.) www.boombats.com (http://www.boombats.com) has nice photos to reference, or you can always come here!

Regards, Ken

[earlywynnfan]

Also, I don't know what Bushing will have to say, you'd probably be better off with the LOA in hand when speaking with him. He is very helpful in educating others, though.

Unfortunately, I don't see much satisfaction from Geppi's, although I hope I'm wrong. They posted many pics for all to see. Granted, they could have stated what the LOA said, which I'm betting states that this is a post-career bat, but they will probably come back and say that you could have asked any questions before bidding.

Feel free to email me anytime if you have bat Q's. I don't know everything, but I've been burned enough to have learned a few things!

Ken

[TNTtoys]

I think that the best possibility now is to return the items. If I were to sell the Harrelson and the Williams, I may get my money back; I may get a little less. Then, I am left with a store bat for my collection...which doesn't make any sense.

Bottom line is that the lot was listed as:

<<
Item Description

1) Keith Hernandez Game Used Bat 2) Bud Harrelson Game Used Bat 3) Billy Williams Game Used Bat MEARS Authentication

>>

And where do I begin about the discrepancies...

1. The Hernandez bat is NOT game used.
2. The Williams bat could not be game used either if is came out after his career.
3. No MEARS letter.

I think that if you are misled when purchasing an item, the seller is at fault. Furthermore, this was the auction I "backed into" and became the winner afterwards. There were 2 higher bidders, and both withdrew their bids after the auction had ended. I think I know now why.

[MSpecht]

Hi Nick

This is an unfortunate, but interesting, situation. As Ken noted, the auction house may try to fall back on the fact that they posted pictures that adequately depicted the three bats. The problem is, they also posted an auction title / dexcription that was, at the very least, inaccurate (either through negligence or lack of information about the items.) The question is, what do they expect a potential bidder to rely on, their (inaccurate) description or the posted pictures? In this case, due to your level of knowledge at the time of the auction, the photos did not assist you in making an informed decision. Rather, you relied on the representation of the auction house that the items were what the auction house stated them to be.

If the auction house claims no responsibility for their descriptions, and says that you had sufficient information via the photos with with to make a decision, then your next question is simple: "Why not just publish the photos of each lot without the title or auction description since the photos are all a bidder needs to make a decision?"

The answer, of course, is that auction text is largely a marketing tool used to induce (seduce?) the potential bidder to covet the item. In the case of bats, do you ever notice that an auction description of, say, 600 words, contains about 575 words on the player, the player's accomplishments, and other irrelevant stuff, and maybe 25 words on the bat itself, with little or no specific information beyond "it is (presumably) made out of wood?" Sometimes a model number and very rarely length, weight, labeling period, etc.

In this particular instance, what kind of action would the lot have received if the title and text had read :


Lot of Three Bats, including:

One commemorative, non-professional model, Keith Hernandez bat;

One post-career Billy Williams bat, not game used by Billy Williams; and

One professional model game used Bud Harrelson bat.


Please keep the forum informed as to your progress and the resolution of this matter. I would suspect that, as the auction description was so obviously in error, that the auction house would not hesitate to remedy this situation to your satisfaction.

Good Luck.

Mike Jackitout7@aol.com

[TNTtoys]

Hi guys,

I didn't realize you were tracking this one...I thought it was a dead thread by now.

In any case, I did contact the auction house yesterday, and explained that none of the bats were as represented, and gave specifics for each of them. They did not hesitate to remedy the situation. They will be arranging a shipper to pick the package up and then once they have it back, they will refund me the cost. It may take a few days but I think it will have a good outcome... Not the one I was hoping for, but at least it was not all bad.


A brief recap of the lot --

1. Hernandez - Listed as game used.
Issue - Was commemorative store model instead.

2. Williams - Listed as game used and authenticated by MEARS.
Issue #1 - His career ended before the bat was made (1977-1979).
Issue #2 - No records exist for him having ordered Louisville Slugger bats during the years 1977-1979. Possibly a coaches bat, possibly not.
Issue #3 - Bat was smaller & lighter than the bats he used at the end of his career.
Issue #4 - No MEARS hologram; no MEARS certificate. Upon contacting MEARS, they claim to have never authenticated the bat.

3. Harrelson - Listed as game used.
Issue #1 - Bat contained tape through the middle (a bit high) and a bat expert pointed out to me that he has never seen a Harrelson bat with tape.
Issue #2 - Bat was cracked and tape was placed on the bat over the crack in order to mask the damage.
Issue #3 - A different player's number was on the knob of the bat. Possible that Harrelson ordered the bat but another player used it?

Anyway, that was my first experience buying bats...phew!!! Maybe I ought to stick to jerseys... at least I know what I'm doing there...lol

[MSpecht]

Thanks for the update, Nick. It is always good to see that if an error is made, an auction house or seller will take positive steps to correct a situation. That has been Geppi's reputation in the past, and it looks like there was no hesitation in this matter.

I think it is important for everyone to realize that no single person / seller / auction house is exempt from making a mistake. The test of integrity is the response to those situations. Those that respond appropriately are the ones that maintain a loyal customer base.

Mike Jackitout7@aol.com