Montero Traded from Yankees

[yanks12025]

I hate the move, cause I think Jesus will be a super star soon. But do you guys think his game used value just went down alot.

[BULBUS]

I like the trade. Pitching wins championships, the Yankees are much better at buying bats than arms. Plus Montero is not a good defensive catcher. They still have Romaine who is better defensively and has a decent bat.

[yanks12025]

I agree, Yankees just picked up Kuroda. So pretty much our rotation went from ??? to being the best in the AL East I'm guessing.

[frikativ54]

I hate the move, cause I think Jesus will be a super star soon. But do you guys think his game used value just went down alot.

61 MLB AB is a small sample size. You got a pitcher with a whole year's MLB experience.

[cliffjmp33]

As a Montero collector (which I'm not), I think you'd be upset as the Yankees "mystique" just left and with that some extra money invested. My question though, is Montero a contracted player with Steiner or just through the Yankees? And what's the financial impact on acquiring GU items now through the Mariners as opposed to Steiner if in fact that's how it'll become?

As a baseball fan, with the way pitching has become of late, I think the Yankees get a quality "live" arm that otherwise would cost them big on the market. And they are built a little more to win now than Seattle. From the Mariners aspect, they get a very talented hitter who very well could be the next Edgar Martinez or better and has a chance to get more ABs. I think it's a win-win at the moment, with the exception of those who are player collectors.

[joelsabi]

As a Montero collector (which I'm not), I think you'd be upset as the Yankees "mystique" just left and with that some extra money invested. My question though, is Montero a contracted player with Steiner or just through the Yankees? And what's the financial impact on acquiring GU items now through the Mariners as opposed to Steiner if in fact that's how it'll become?



Steiners contract is with the Yankee organization, so now the Yankees have to give up Mike Pineda jerseys next year to Steiner. I like the trade as Russell Martin is still the catcher and there is still one other Yankee catcher prospect that is climbing up the minor league levels. Will miss Posada however.

Pitchers win championships.

[frikativ54]

Pitchers win championships.

Couldn't agree with you more. That's why I'm kind of sad about this trade, as someone who follows the M's.

-Frik

[Manram]

Good trade both ways. Yankees get a stud pitcher in Pineda, and the Mariners get some much needed offense. Made sense also considering the Yankees have Gary Sanchez coming up as a catcher, and the Mariners have Taijuan Walker and other prospect arms. Although all these prospects are 2-3 years away

[legaleagle92481]

Great trade for Yankees. They had no pitching besides CC. The offense is fine. Russell Martin is still young and an allstar level catcher. Romaine is a capable backup. The DH spot has to stay open to rotate in all the 30 plus guys in the lineup. Arod, Jeter, Cano, Granderson, Tex and Martin are unmatched outside maybe Texas. The offense is in great shape. Its best to sell high on prospects. The Mets had Fernando Martinez, uber prospect horded him for years, could have gotten high quality player (s) for him but held onto him and in the end he ended up waived and they lost him for nothing. The Angels had Brandon Wood who was supposed to be the next great power hitter, after years of shuffling between the majors and minors and showing an inability to hit major league pitching he is now out of the picture and likely headed back to the minors. At one time the Angels could have had anyone for Wood today they could get a bag of balls if they are lucky. Montero could have went the same way. Last year was a small sample size and the quality of play is watered down in September with the expanded rosters so putting stock in September stats is dangerous. Also he has struggled at times in the past. Pinada is a unique talent the kind that you can't normally get on the free agent market or the draft and rarely comes along on the trade market. I would take him over Gio Gonzalez, Trevor Cahill, Latos or any of the other pitchers who netted huge prospects this offseason. He will just get better and better and is only 23, the Yankees could have a top of the rotation starter for the next 15 years. Kuroda is at best a middle of the rotation guy getting up there in age. Burnett is terrible and Nova overachieved last year and is likely to regress alot next season. This move was necessary for the Yankees.

[legaleagle92481]

As far as game used values it kills Monteros. The Yankees have a rabid collector base of very well heeled people who pay big time for stuff from their team. The Ms don't have that. Pacific Rim collectors go crazy for Ichiro but that is because he is from Japan. Plus the team is so bad. He stuff today is worth half of what it was worth yesterday.

[5toolplayer]

Terrible move by the Yankees and let me give you my opinion why. Montero yes is work in progress behind the plate but he could be a All Star DH/C for the next 10+ years. The Yankees have aging vets who seem to run out of gas when the post season comes around. When is it ever going to be a good time to inject some youth into this old lineup? Montero was home grown and seemed ready to do big things for the yankees this year.

Russell Martin a AS catcher?? Come on. He had a great April and decent may and then he was below average the rest of the year and was TERRIBLE in the playoffs. He is great behind the plate but his offense is poop. Romine??? A decent backup and all this talk about Gary Sanchez?? He's at least 4 years away.

Pineda showed some promise at the beginning of the year but had a horrible 2nd half. Look at his home and away splits, not too good. Will he get better? Can he pitch in NY? Hopefully. But people really seem to be forgetting about the 2 big guns in AAA, Betances and Banuelos. Those guys should be ready to go mid season. I know you can never have too much pitching but.........


Carlos Pena?? We do NOT need another .210 hitter floating around the lineup.

I am and will continue to collect and follow Montero and I know him and his family and this move without a doubt will crush him but he needs to move on and do his thing with the M's.

One good things comes out of this....i'll be picking up all his stuff for dirt cheap prices all year long.

[Fnazxc0114]

:D thats funny
I agree, Yankees just picked up Kuroda. So pretty much our rotation went from ??? to being the best in the AL East I'm guessing.

[yanks12025]

:D thats funny


I Don't see what's so funny.

1.CC
2.Pineda
3.Kuroda
4.Nova
5.Burnett

I think that's a pretty damn good rotation.

[frikativ54]

One good things comes out of this....i'll be picking up all his stuff for dirt cheap prices all year long.

Good luck with your collection. I'll let you know if I see anything here in Seattle. :)

[metsbats]

Yankees need pitching to win right now. Montero can develop with the Mariners for the next 5 years and if he turns into the superstar he was destined to be the Yankees will re-sign him as a free agent.

Excellent strategy.

[3arod13]

Yankees need pitching to win right now. Montero can develop with the Mariners for the next 5 years and if he turns into the superstar he was destined to be the Yankees will re-sign him as a free agent.

Excellent strategy.

+1

[frikativ54]

Yankees need pitching to win right now. Montero can develop with the Mariners for the next 5 years and if he turns into the superstar he was destined to be the Yankees will re-sign him as a free agent.

Excellent strategy.

Sadly for me as an M's fan, I could fully see this scenario happening.

[5toolplayer]

hey all you M's fans in Seattle....Do they sell a lot of game used stuff during the year? I'm going to be dropping a ton of $$$ on #21 Montero Rookie items all year long!! Keep me posted

[frikativ54]

hey all you M's fans in Seattle....Do they sell a lot of game used stuff during the year? I'm going to be dropping a ton of $$$ on #21 Montero Rookie items all year long!! Keep me posted

The M's team store is tough. They will periodically have MLB authenticated broken bats in the store of guys like Smoak, Ackley, etc., but it's kind of a first come, first serve thing. Unfortunately, they don't authenticate hit/HR balls.

Even if you tell them your wants, they likely won't return your phone calls. I have given my name, email, number, etc. to the store tens of times for Smoak stuff, but they haven't called once, even when they have stuff in.

As for jerseys, you can probably get your hands on a few. The M's sell several of their shirts on MLB.com Auctions and will also have some - "issued" and used at some point after the season is over.

Your best bet is to talk to Jeremy, MarinersFan34. He's at a lot of the games and can let you know what they get in. I just go every once in a while to a day game where I can take some pictures. Good luck!

[BULBUS]

Sadly for me as an M's fan, I could fully see this scenario happening.


That scenario doesnt happen too often. The Yanks have traded away several prospects over the years and none have come back, that I can think of. Maybe its because none turned out to be stars. Jay Buhner only comes to mind, and although he was a solid player for many years, never was a star.

[gorilla777]

Great, great trade by the Yankees and Cashman. It was a gutsy trade by both teams, giving up quality to get quality, which I like. New York has two top notch catchers on the way, superior by a large margin defensively. Montero, by all reports, did not show the work ethic to become a better catcher, had slow feet and that will not get better over time given the toll catching takes on most guys. Yes, his bat is strong but they did give him 60 plus comfortable, high margin of safety at bats. Safeco is one of the worst, if not the worst, fields for hitters, so his power numbers will drop. It is a park for pitching and defense. His GU stuff is going to drop significantly if you are looking at it as an investment piece too. Seattle got a great hitter that they desperately need, but NY got two hard throwing,(high K to BB ratio) high strike throwing, young pitchers under team control for 5 years, I believe. Good, young pitching is hard to develop and hard to get. The reaction of other AL executives definitely sided with the Yankees on this one and is usually a good barometer.
It is on the surface a good trade for both, to a degree, but it is a huge coup for the Yankees, especially in terms of need.

Ben

[maverick14]

How does this affect Pineda's GU items. He has a full exclusive contract with Onyx. Are they going to be the ones who get his GU items or will Steiner because of their contract with the Yankees?? I'm confused how that works.

[joelsabi]

How does this affect Pineda's GU items. He has a full exclusive contract with Onyx. Are they going to be the ones who get his GU items or will Steiner because of their contract with the Yankees?? I'm confused how that works.

more than likely, jerseys from steiner and individual player paid items like cleats, bats, and batting gloves will be marketed with Onyx. Pineda could ask for some jerseys for his own use but a set quota of jerseys are promised to Steiner.

[5toolplayer]

I disagree not only because I am probably the biggest Montero supporter but because of the fact that Pineda has had a few good starts and nothing more. Seems like the AL figured him out in the 2nd half and he got rocked. 5.12 ERA the 2nd half?? Come on, is that really a sure thing? Isn't that what Cashman said? He would only trade Jesus for a Cliff Lee type monster? I had plans on going to ST again this year for a week and I already cancelled the trip. Not that the Yankees will miss a beat but I just am sick of the trading away of the young talent. They gave up on Ian, Clippard, Jackson ( I know Grandy) way too fast and hold on to guys like Joba? I wouldn't be shocked if they moved Banuelos and Betances later in the year for an aging DH/OF. Did the Cardinals have "lights out" pitching in the playoffs this year or did the HIT their way to the title? Good pitching wins every time??? How did that work out for the phillies the past 3 years? You NEED offense and Jeter, Arod, Martin, Swisher, Tex have not showed up when it counts the last few years and it has nothing to do with the rotation.

PS: Sanchez is YEARS away and Romine is a backup, no more, no less. Martin is a good D catcher but minus his April fast start, he was terrible with the stick.





Great, great trade by the Yankees and Cashman. It was a gutsy trade by both teams, giving up quality to get quality, which I like. New York has two top notch catchers on the way, superior by a large margin defensively. Montero, by all reports, did not show the work ethic to become a better catcher, had slow feet and that will not get better over time given the toll catching takes on most guys. Yes, his bat is strong but they did give him 60 plus comfortable, high margin of safety at bats. Safeco is one of the worst, if not the worst, fields for hitters, so his power numbers will drop. It is a park for pitching and defense. His GU stuff is going to drop significantly if you are looking at it as an investment piece too. Seattle got a great hitter that they desperately need, but NY got two hard throwing,(high K to BB ratio) high strike throwing, young pitchers under team control for 5 years, I believe. Good, young pitching is hard to develop and hard to get. The reaction of other AL executives definitely sided with the Yankees on this one and is usually a good barometer.
It is on the surface a good trade for both, to a degree, but it is a huge coup for the Yankees, especially in terms of need.

Ben

[yanks12025]

Scott,

Montero isn't a sure thing either. Right now we need pitching and getting a young star for someone with 60 MLB at-bats is good. You bring up saying the league figured him out, it was his rookie year. You think all pitchers in their first year were all-stars right away. Good chance he'll be an awesome pitcher for many years to come.

[gorilla777]

I would be upset if I owned a ton of his stuff too, though that has zero impact on it being a smart trade for NY.

[5toolplayer]

What makes you say Pineda is going to be an awesome pitcher? Am I missing something here? Are we talking about the same pitcher who was 9-10 and had a 2nd half ERA of 5.12? Please explain to me the difference of him "probably" being a good pitcher and Montero "probably" being a ELITE hitter. I guess you didn't watch the playoffs last year when the Yankees offense looked like a bunch of old men who were late on everything. This trade still makes me sick and it has nothing to do with Jesus's G/U items because I'm still collecting his stuff even if he ends up playing for the Altoona Curve.

[5toolplayer]

New York has two top notch catchers on the way, superior by a large margin defensively. Montero, by all reports, did not show the work ethic to become a better catcher.


Wow really? Sanchez is a KID who had a awful 2011 in A ball plus a attitude problem at the end of the season. Romine is all glove who never even hit in AA. I'll take spotty D at the MLB level if that means .300, 30+ Hrs, 100+ RBIs every year. Hey wait.....isn't that what Jorge provided NY for YEARS?


And please post the facts about Montero not working hard to become a better catcher. He worked his ass off from the minute he reported to Scranton in 2011 and didn't stop working until the yankees were beaten by the Tigers.

[gorilla777]

Pitching is harder to develop and acquire than hitting. And when signing pitchers vs. hitters on the open market, the contract is much more likely to look bad once completed. And I doubt the Yankees trade Betances or any of their other young pitching, but who knows. You cannot have enough good young pitching and that is a great foundation going forward.
You say pitching doesn't equal championships? Please, very few teams bash their way to a title. And those teams that do, probably have good pitching as well, either starting or relieving in the playoffs. A team does not even get to the playoffs without pitching anyway. The Phillies were defeated mostly by the Cardinals pitching, with the clincher being a 1-0 loss to the dominant Carpenter. The late 90s Yankee teams won consistently on rock solid pitching. How did the '88 Dodgers beat superior Mets and A's teams, but thru pitching. Look back over time and good pitching always gives you a better chance to win than good hitting. Why didn't the late 80s Oakland team of hammers win more? Or the Rangers of the last couple years?
You are also assuming Montero is a catcher. Most experts disagree with that being likely over his career. And he is not a very good one right now. So he will likely be more of a DH thru his career. He had 60 at bats layed out with the best chance of him succeeding. Also done in a lineup that scored a ton of runs, with protection. He will get none of that with Seattle. That is not enough at bats to project a career, just like the number of starts for Pineda are not enough to criticize. And the other player from Seattle in the deal, Jose Campos, is a high ceiling pitcher as well.
Since you collect his stuff, you should be upset. I would be too and it has to color your view of the trade. The reaction of rival GMs is likely a better barometer.

[Masimen]

Regardless of whether or not you like the move, which I believe was smart move by the Yankees and it seems those sentiments are shared by most of the so called experts, I have always been a believer that hitching your collecting wagon to a prospect is an extremely risky move from an investment standpoint. Especially if said prospect is a Yankee prospect. You will almost always come out in the negative if you decide to liquidate down the road. Now if that isn't a concern and you are just collecting to collect then no harm I suppose. I still remember what Drew Hensen bats were selling for in 99.

[yanks12025]

What makes you say montero will be this elite 30+ home run player. I'd rather take the chance on a pitcher then a DH that can be replaced easily. Don't get me wrong, I wanted to keep montero. But I can see this as a huge move.

[5toolplayer]

Yup you guys are right. Montero is a bum and the Yanks did the right thing by moving him for a pitcher who had a few good weeks. Every FA year the TOP HITTER gets the 180 million contract (Tex) 250 Pujols, 214 Fielder, Werth, Crawford and so on!! I only see LEGIT aces get the big money. CC, Lee, Doc. Very good to good get AJ type money. So this pitching crap doesn't hold water with me. Cardinals had rock solid pitching? Come on man. IMO it was a bad trade. I follow the Yanks and every single move they make. I just don't collect G/U stuff and read about stuff here and there so I do know what i'm talking about. Montero was the best hitting prospect since Jeter and most NY fans are tired of the same old broke down players not getting it done. It was time for a change. And Pineda was not the answer we were looking for.

And b4 you write a long post telling me about greating pitch, look up Cashmans interview about this being the hardest trade he's ever had to do. Middle of the order monsters don't grow on trees or come cheap in trades.

[legaleagle92481]

Yup you guys are right. Montero is a bum and the Yanks did the right thing by moving him for a pitcher who had a few good weeks. Every FA year the TOP HITTER gets the 180 million contract (Tex) 250 Pujols, 214 Fielder, Werth, Crawford and so on!! I only see LEGIT aces get the big money. CC, Lee, Doc. Very good to good get AJ type money. So this pitching crap doesn't hold water with me. Cardinals had rock solid pitching? Come on man. IMO it was a bad trade. I follow the Yanks and every single move they make. I just don't collect G/U stuff and read about stuff here and there so I do know what i'm talking about. Montero was the best hitting prospect since Jeter and most NY fans are tired of the same old broke down players not getting it done. It was time for a change. And Pineda was not the answer we were looking for.

And b4 you write a long post telling me about greating pitch, look up Cashmans interview about this being the hardest trade he's ever had to do. Middle of the order monsters don't grow on trees or come cheap in trades.

The value of a contract does not determine if something is a good trade or not. Pitchers get less because 1. They only pitch every five days while hitters play every game and 2. They are riskier investments because they tend to get more serious, long lasting injuries as a group than hitters do and 3. Pitchers are less consistent and their performances often vary wildly from year to year. However, pitching does win titles. Look at the last few World Series winners all had at least one ace type pitcher who came up big in the postseason:

2011: Cards: Carpenter
2010: Giants: Timmy L., Cain
2009: Yankees: CC
2008: Phils: Hamels
2007: Red Sox: Beckett, Schilling

Without the pitchers listed above, it is likely that most of those teams would not have won. Will Montero come back to bite them? Who knows but in the past the Yankees have come out on top when trading position guys pretty much everytime: Some killed the Jackson for Granderson trade at the time and for a year after but today how does that look? Granderson is a star and Jackson is a singles hitter.

[yanks12025]

Yup you guys are right. Montero is a bum and the Yanks did the right thing by moving him for a pitcher who had a few good weeks. Every FA year the TOP HITTER gets the 180 million contract (Tex) 250 Pujols, 214 Fielder, Werth, Crawford and so on!! I only see LEGIT aces get the big money. CC, Lee, Doc. Very good to good get AJ type money. So this pitching crap doesn't hold water with me. Cardinals had rock solid pitching? Come on man. IMO it was a bad trade. I follow the Yanks and every single move they make. I just don't collect G/U stuff and read about stuff here and there so I do know what i'm talking about. Montero was the best hitting prospect since Jeter and most NY fans are tired of the same old broke down players not getting it done. It was time for a change. And Pineda was not the answer we were looking for.

And b4 you write a long post telling me about greating pitch, look up Cashmans interview about this being the hardest trade he's ever had to do. Middle of the order monsters don't grow on trees or come cheap in trades.


Montero only had acouple good weeks also, don't see how it's different then what Pinada did. What if next year Montero hits .200 with 2 home-runs and sent back down. While Pinada wins more that 12 games. I'm guessing you haven't seen that Pinada had the second highest K's per 9 innings this year, he was in front of Verlander.

[gorilla777]

No, he's right, pitching means nothing. It is truly overvalued and I now see the light. And this pitching crap was not requested!

[yanks12025]

Also how do we know that Pinada won't become one of those aces. Say he becomes the next Verlander, Timmy or Doc. That would do more good for the team in the long run, then having a power hitting DH.

Don't get me wrong, I liked Montero alot and would have loved to see him play longer for us. But when we need pitching more than a full-time DH right now. So I think it's a good move.

[kesseldawg]

His game used value has just gone down, as the Yankee mystique adds a TON. So if you just bought his Yankee game used road jersey for 2K (Steiner offered it to me for that), you just saw the value fall. Look at the hit Pujols Cardinals stuff is taking right now. People want what is current. Granted, a Yankees Montero jersey is nice, but if he wins ROY or becomes a big star, it is the pieces from the team he becomes that star with that will be most sought after.

[5toolplayer]

2011: Cards: Carpenter
2010: Giants: Timmy L., Cain
2009: Yankees: CC
2008: Phils: Hamels
2007: Red Sox: Beckett, Schilling



Yup again you experts on here are correct. Those teams listed above had no GREAT hitters at all. It was all pitching and no hitting. I'm done going back and forth about it. We will see in 5 years what a great trade this was. I along with tons of real yankee fans think this was a bad move. Montero has been followed by true fans for many years in hopes of finally having another young hitter in the lineup that was a homegrown stud. Pineda has done nothing but have few good weeks to start the season then totally tanked to the tune of a 5.12 ERA. I guess young .300 hitters with 30+ Hr power are a dime a dozen. Maybe Miami will trade Stanton to the yankees for Nova. Seems like a good trade considering the numbers Nova put up last year. Sounds pretty stupid huh? Talk to me in 2017 about this same topic. Worst trade in the Cashman era.

[gorilla777]

True Yankee fans? Don't know where to start with that one....So the call is to wait until '17 to pass judgment, but at the same time call it the worst trade of the Cashman area immediately? And then downplaying pitching again, always a great call. It may be influenced by owning a great deal of NY items for Montero, yet still sounds rambling.

[5toolplayer]

Time will tell. this convo is over

[legaleagle92481]

2011: Cards: Carpenter
2010: Giants: Timmy L., Cain
2009: Yankees: CC
2008: Phils: Hamels
2007: Red Sox: Beckett, Schilling



Yup again you experts on here are correct. Those teams listed above had no GREAT hitters at all. It was all pitching and no hitting. I'm done going back and forth about it. We will see in 5 years what a great trade this was. I along with tons of real yankee fans think this was a bad move. Montero has been followed by true fans for many years in hopes of finally having another young hitter in the lineup that was a homegrown stud. Pineda has done nothing but have few good weeks to start the season then totally tanked to the tune of a 5.12 ERA. I guess young .300 hitters with 30+ Hr power are a dime a dozen. Maybe Miami will trade Stanton to the yankees for Nova. Seems like a good trade considering the numbers Nova put up last year. Sounds pretty stupid huh? Talk to me in 2017 about this same topic. Worst trade in the Cashman era.

the yankees have more hitting than any of those teams. stanton and montero dont compare stanton has almost as many homers as montero has plate appearances at the same age, they are a couple of weeks apart. i can understand your frustration as a fan and collector though. i am a jets fan. i invested in keyshawn shortly before he was traded and when that happened i was so upset about it.

[yanks12025]

You're very funny, saying that we're not real "Yankee Fans" cause we actually like the trade. Only reason you want him to stay a Yankee is for his game used prices to go up. We'll see in five years, when Pinada is an all-star and Montero is just a DH.

The way you talk about him, is that he's has been around for years putting up a .300 batting average and over 30 homeruns. But in fact it's only been 62 at-bats. I'm sure there have been several other top prospects who have failed after having a good first 62 at-bats.

[legaleagle92481]

You're very funny, saying that we're not real "Yankee Fans" cause we actually like the trade. Only reason you want him to stay a Yankee is for his game used prices to go up. We'll see in five years, when Pinada is an all-star and Montero is just a DH.

The way you talk about him, is that he's has been around for years putting up a .300 batting average and over 30 homeruns. But in fact it's only been 62 at-bats. I'm sure there have been several other top prospects who have failed after having a good first 62 at-bats.

Gregg Jefferies comes to mind. He was supposed to be the next great thing. In his first year (29 games) he had .320 with 6 homers and 17 rbis at age 20. He finished sixth in the rookie of the year race that year. He had two all star years later on with the Cardinals but was never close to a superstar never hitting over 20 homers or knocking in a 100 runs.

[MarinersFan34]

Another thing to consider that some might not look at. Pineda pitched in a number of games that he gave up 2-3 runs, in Seattle that's almost an automatic loss for you. In NY, you're still more than likely gonna get the win at that point. They have run support, plain and simple.

As for the getting rocked by Boston in his lone appearance against them, let's not forget that the Yankees Ace, Sabathia gave up at least 6 runs to Boston THREE times last year. So Pineda did it once but your ace did it 3 times and Pineda is the guy that sucks?

Overall on paper some may see this as a bad trade for either or both teams, some see it as being great. There is no way we'll know until they play the field, the only ones who make or break this trade is the players themselves no matter what we think of the players or how we rate their abilities.

I have high hopes for Montero but we've seen all too many times in the past that a sure thing hitter has gone bust, that's what worries me. We only saw a small sampling of his ability to handle the bigs, doesn't mean he can make a case to stay up.

[5toolplayer]

You're very funny, saying that we're not real "Yankee Fans" cause we actually like the trade. Only reason you want him to stay a Yankee is for his game used prices to go up. We'll see in five years, when Pinada is an all-star and Montero is just a DH.

The way you talk about him, is that he's has been around for years putting up a .300 batting average and over 30 homeruns. But in fact it's only been 62 at-bats. I'm sure there have been several other top prospects who have failed after having a good first 62 at-bats.



http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x369/5toolplayer/IMG_1546.jpg

You're right high speed I only care about his G/U items and the value of them.....Or maybe because I know the family and how much they wanted Jesus to become a star in NY. I don't collect his stuff to make a profit. I could care less what they are worth because I will never try to move any of it. I just think its a bad move moving a homegrown, middle of the order bat for pitching right now with Manny and Dellin on the way.

[joelsabi]

You're right high speed I only care about his G/U items and the value of them.....Or maybe because I know the family and how much they wanted Jesus to become a star in NY. I don't collect his stuff to make a profit. I could care less what they are worth because I will never try to move any of it. I just think its a bad move moving a homegrown, middle of the order bat for pitching right now with Manny and Dellin on the way.

I think I too would be a bit devastated as a collector if the player I collect was also playing for my favorite team and then all of the sudden he is traded away.

Unfortunately, time and patience is something that the Yankee GM lacks as his MO is to win a championship now instead of building for the future. I think the trade made sense for both sides as the trade addressed a current need for both teams. I too had high hopes for Montero as a Yankee but I would have been even in favor of the Montero - Cliff Lee trade back in 2010 more so than the current trade with Michael Pineda, who seems like a great young pitcher with a full season in the major leagues to boot and with some upside. Hopefully Pineda's arm is managed properly by the Yankees.

Where is your family and Montero's family in the picture?

[gorilla777]

Regardless of whether or not you like the move, which I believe was smart move by the Yankees and it seems those sentiments are shared by most of the so called experts, I have always been a believer that hitching your collecting wagon to a prospect is an extremely risky move from an investment standpoint. Especially if said prospect is a Yankee prospect. You will almost always come out in the negative if you decide to liquidate down the road. Now if that isn't a concern and you are just collecting to collect then no harm I suppose. I still remember what Drew Hensen bats were selling for in 99.

Steve, this is a good point

[5toolplayer]

I think I too would be a bit devastated as a collector if the player I collect was also playing for my favorite team and then all of the sudden he is traded away.

Unfortunately, time and patience is something that the Yankee GM lacks as his MO is to win a championship now instead of building for the future. I think the trade made sense for both sides as the trade addressed a current need for both teams. I too had high hopes for Montero as a Yankee but I would have been even in favor of the Montero - Cliff Lee trade back in 2010 more so than the current trade with Michael Pineda, who seems like a great young pitcher with a full season in the major leagues to boot and with some upside. Hopefully Pineda's arm is managed properly by the Yankees.

Where is your family and Montero's family in the picture?

Very good post sir ;)
My wife and I are in the NY away jerseys. In between us is Jesus's mom and dad. His girlfriends dad and brother are on the end. A great down to earth family. I'll be meeting up with them Aug 6-8 when the M's visit Baltimore.

[5toolplayer]

Couldn't have said it better myself!

Or here is another way to think of it: In five years, what is more likely, that Pineda is a No. 1 starter or Montero is a No. 4 hitter?




http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/yankees/dealing_away_big_hitting_montero_V9qIa9GpIXhCTt2x9 OejKJ

[5toolplayer]

Couldn't have said it better myself!

Or here is another way to think of it: In five years, what is more likely, that Pineda is a No. 1 starter or Montero is a No. 4 hitter?




http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/yankees/dealing_away_big_hitting_montero_V9qIa9GpIXhCTt2x9 OejKJ

Nice article from the NY Post below:

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/yankees/dealing_away_big_hitting_montero_V9qIa9GpIXhCTt2x9 OejKJ/0

[gorilla777]

I thought "this convo is over"?

[5toolplayer]

maybe I should have said, "I'm done talking to you"
The article just stresses the points I was trying to make. Now I'm done

[gorilla777]

Finally, what a relief that is to hear

[kellsox]

Nice article from the NY Post below:

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/yankees/dealing_away_big_hitting_montero_V9qIa9GpIXhCTt2x9 OejKJ/0

Good trade for ny. If they didn't see montero, there's no use keeping him to dh. They'll need that slot for the corpse of arod and his never ending contract.

[kellsox]

Good trade for ny. If they didn't see montero, there's no use keeping him to dh. They'll need that slot for the corpse of arod and his never ending contract.

Meant to say "didn't see montero as a catcher"

[dwn1955]

Being a Yankee fan myself I wasn't too thrilled with the trade either. And while it may be like comparing apples to oranges as Montero likely has more potential at a younger age, the September numbers he put up are pretty meaningless. Remember Shane Spencer, September 1998, 60 some ABs, 10 homers .373 avg and a nice ALDS? Nice player but it was pretty much downhill for his career after that. Just saying.

[Lennox.P]

the yankees have more hitting than any of those teams. stanton and montero dont compare stanton has almost as many homers as montero has plate appearances at the same age, they are a couple of weeks apart. i can understand your frustration as a fan and collector though. i am a jets fan. i invested in keyshawn shortly before he was traded and when that happened i was so upset about it.

@legaleagle92481

if you still have some keyshawn stuff contact me at
lorraine4me2000@yahoo.de

[5toolplayer]

Mark Feinsand ? @BloggingBombers
—
Brian Cashman just told me Pineda will have an MRI on his right shoulder.


WHAT A GREAT TRADE FOR THE YANKEES!! THIS KID LOOKS LIKE A YOUNG ACE IN THE MAKING. HAHAHAHA....20 LBS OVER WEIGHT AND NOW SHOULDER PROBLEMS. This will end up being the Worst trade in NYY history

[yanks12025]

Mark Feinsand ? @BloggingBombers
—
Brian Cashman just told me Pineda will have an MRI on his right shoulder.


WHAT A GREAT TRADE FOR THE YANKEES!! THIS KID LOOKS LIKE A YOUNG ACE IN THE MAKING. HAHAHAHA....20 LBS OVER WEIGHT AND NOW SHOULDER PROBLEMS. This will end up being the Worst trade in NYY history

Worst trade. Yeah I'm sure, Well see after montero bats 250 this year.

[frikativ54]

Worst trade. Yeah I'm sure, Well see after montero bats 250 this year.

It's too early to tell IMO. Give it a few years.

[brianborsch]

I personally think the M's made out like bandits. They got a legit DH and some prospects (I believe we got acouple good pitching prospect?) and the Yanks got a pitcher with a bum arm.

Go M's!

[5toolplayer]

M's without a doubt got the better end of this deal. This injury to Pineda is not the 1st time we are going to be let down by this guy. AL ROY= Jesus Montero. .280 27 HR 89 Rbis

[brianborsch]

It goes both ways though. Previously we got robbed when we traded Adam Jones for Bedard. If only we would have still had Adam Jones today!

In my opinion, it's a bigger risk to trade a top position player for a pitcher, unless they are the caliber of a Roy Halladay or a Clayton Kershaw. Someone with proven dominance of at least 3 years straight....

[yanks12025]

Top position player, he's a DH. That's all Montero will ever be is a DH. The Yankees are getting older, so they need the DH spot free to rest A-rod, Jeter, Tex. Montero had no place to play every day on the team and would have just taken up space.

[5toolplayer]

Are you telling me Montero will not be as good as Posada was behind the plate?Was Jorge ever more then decent behind the plater??? Nope! Jesus is not going to win any gold gloves but he wont be terrible. Wedge seems to think he's going to be a pretty decent catcher....too bad the Yankees didn't feel the same way. But if the SAME trade was on the table today, do you think the yankees pull the trigger???? HELL NO!!! Pineda on the DL for a month or so gets a chance to gain back 20 lbs of fat then he'll have to rehab and get his arm and chunky body back into game shape..so NY is looking at around a June/July time frame to get him on the mound. WINNERS~~~~

[metsbats]

@LastingMilledge85 Please refrain from your baiting posts.

If this thread gets off topic again it'll be locked.

[LastingsMilledge85]

@LastingMilledge85 Please refrain from your baiting posts.

If this thread gets off topic again it'll be locked.
Sorry David, won't happen again...

[metsbats]

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120425&content_id=29638044&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb


Guess we won't have to wait several years to see who got the better end of the deal on this one.

[yanks12025]

How does pineda being out for the year already determine it as a bad trade? Yes it's a failure now, but in the long wrong he'll still be better than montero.


What if next year he comes back and wins Cy young or something. Montero just as expected has showed nothing great so far this year to me.

[LastingsMilledge85]

How does pineda being out for the year already determine it as a bad trade? Yes it's a failure now, but in the long wrong he'll still be better than montero.


What if next year he comes back and wins Cy young or something. Montero just as expected has showed nothing great so far this year to me.
Well, the type of surgery Pineda is going to have is not an easy recovery. Most pitchers don't come back from it, and those that do are not half of what they once were. Chances are he will be a 5th starter at best, of course he could break the barrier, but I doubt he will be as he once was advertised. This is a serious career altering/ending injury.

[metsbats]

I agree. Only from the perspective that the Yankees needed pitching this year and this unfortunately happened. They wanted payback now but may now have to wait one year while the Mariners may see dividends from Montero this year.

[5toolplayer]

This says it all... ( and YES this is a career CHANGING injury so enough with the CY YOUNG talk)

When the Yankees and Mariners announced their out-of-the-blue swap of Jesus Montero and Michael Pineda (yes, a few other players were included, too) in January, you could find a lot of strong opinions, but no consensus.

The kind of trade that is rarely made these days (young talent for young talent), there was one person who thought the Mariners got a steal for every observer who insisted the Yankees made out like bandits.

There was great risk and reward on both sides. Yes, Montero could be locked into DHing at the tender age of 22, but he could also be an annual 30-home run threat in a league with increasingly few of them.

And yes, Pineda’s fastball-and-flyball ways may not be as effective in new Yankee Stadium as they were in Safeco Field, but how often can you acquire a pitcher who posted a 3.74 ERA while striking out over a batter per inning in 171 frames as a 22-year-old rookie?

It was a trade with so many layers, what-ifs and intrigue that it couldn’t possibly be declared a win for either side until many years down the road. That is unless, of course, extenuating circumstances came into play.

They did in a huge way on Wednesday, one that has darkened the Yankees’ short-term outlook, severely clouded Pineda’s future and made the Mariners feel all the more fortunate they’re now DHing a player who’s been ranked among Baseball America’s Top 10 Prospects each of the past three seasons.

A spring that began with Pineda displaying a noticeable loss of velocity has ended with his placement on the disabled list with a torn labrum in his pitching shoulder. It’s that kind of injury that can end careers if things break the wrong way, and will leave Pineda as a markedly different pitcher even if he’s able to complete what will be a long and winding rehabilitation.

If he is taking the hill every fifth day at some point in the future, it won’t be with the 94.2 mile per hour fastball he averaged in 2011, and it certainly won’t be with the title of “future ace” he was sometimes given as he made his way through the Mariners’ minor-league system.

So as Montero continues to settle into his new role and home, the Yankees will try to figure out if Phil Hughes or Freddy Garcia should be penciled in as the fifth starter once Andy Pettitte enters the fray in May. That would have been an undesirable reality even if the Bombers had kept their bomb/BB catching prospect. Now it’s a reminder that baseball is as fragile a game as any, and that we only know everything until we know nothing.

[5toolplayer]

How does pineda being out for the year already determine it as a bad trade? Yes it's a failure now, but in the long wrong he'll still be better than montero.


What if next year he comes back and wins Cy young or something. Montero just as expected has showed nothing great so far this year to me.


.281 BA, 2HRs, 11RBIs through 17 games and has already caught 5 games with no errors? I wouldn't call it great but I would call it pretty darn good for a 22 year old.

[CollectGU]

This says it all... ( and YES this is a career CHANGING injury so enough with the CY YOUNG talk)

A spring that began with Pineda displaying a noticeable loss of velocity has ended with his placement on the disabled list with a torn labrum in his pitching shoulder. It’s that kind of injury that can end careers if things break the wrong way, and will leave Pineda as a markedly different pitcher even if he’s able to complete what will be a long and winding rehabilitation.



The only way to really judge this is to look back at their careers in 2 years , 5 years, 10 years. Your postings on this are like watching your positions in the stock market daily, let's wait and see how this plays out....

[GameUsedGR61]

Well, the type of surgery Pineda is going to have is not an easy recovery. Most pitchers don't come back from it, and those that do are not half of what they once were. Chances are he will be a 5th starter at best, of course he could break the barrier, but I doubt he will be as he once was advertised. This is a serious career altering/ending injury.

They actually talked about that in the Yankees game last night with a graphic that stated the last 8 pitchers who had that surgery and 7 of them recovered without a problem. the only one who didnt match his earlier success from that list was jason schmidt

personally i had no problem with the trade. montero had no room on the team. everyone on the yankees staff said he was not a good defensive catcher when he was in the minor leagues. plus we have austin romine waiting in the helms. in addition, we have a prospect by the name of gary sanchez who supposedly is better than montero and austin romine.

i know jesus montero is a great hitterr and i am definitely not going to dispute it but why have someone like that to be our DH. Eventually Jeter, ARod, Jones, and Ibanez will serve that role now and in the years to come. We needed pitching and unfortunately it didnt go in our favor. Stuff like this happens. Dont forget we also got Jose Campos in the trade who in the coming years may show some promise as he did well in his minor league debut for the Yanks. We still have Banuelos, Betances, and Phelps who can step in and also Pettitte whenever he is ready

As a Yankees fan, I just have to wait and see what happens

[LastingsMilledge85]

They actually talked about that in the Yankees game last night with a graphic that stated the last 8 pitchers who had that surgery and 7 of them recovered without a problem. the only one who didnt match his earlier success from that list was jason schmidt
I didn't see the graphic, but was Jake Peavy on it? I think he had the same surgery, and he has fallen way off the table since his injuries. Bottom line is that this trade to evaluate is going to take a lot of time.

[gingi79]

http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_/id/7863696/new-york-yankees-gm-brian-cashman-calls-michael-pineda-deal-massive-decision-gone-wrong

"This is a massive decision gone wrong right now," Cashman told ESPNNewYork.com on Friday. "So all scrutiny is fair."

I have no dog is the fight but this was terribly telling of the Yankee's stance as of now.

[5toolplayer]

I've been saying this was a terrible move for NY since the night the trade was announced!! And still people are saying "give it 5 years" M's HANDS DOWN won this trade and thats all that needs to be said. Everyone who supported Cashman and his brilliant idea of trading away the Yankees best hitting prospect since Jeter can finally admit it was the wrong move. Cashman already has!

PS...Montero another JACK last night!! R.O.Y

[yanks12025]

We'll considering Montero already won the R.O.Y and that the trade is horrible already even though Pinade is 23. We might as well just end the season today and give the nationals the championship considering things are decided in the first couple of weeks.

[5toolplayer]

http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_/id/7863696/new-york-yankees-gm-brian-cashman-calls-michael-pineda-deal-massive-decision-gone-wrong

READ THE ARTICLE ABOVE.......

I guess Cashman is just making statements to make everyone feel better?? Wrong!!! This is the last thing he wanted to admit to anyone. Face the facts....this trade was clearly WON by the M's.

[Manram]

You have made your point very clear that the M's got the better deal.... We all understand

[yanks12025]

I've read the article and it means nothing. The point being is its still to early. The reason cashman said it is because pinade is on the DL. But if he comes back next year and pitches like an all-star,obviously people will be happy with the trade. Even if he comes back and pitches ok and montero becomes a bust, would that still mean the M's got a better deal. Montero had no place on this team, end of topic.

[yanks12025]

So you still think Montero should be ROY. hahaha

[5toolplayer]

If you're in Baltimore for the Nationals this week please please feel free to call me so we can meet up and discuss this thread one on one. I would love to put a face to all this internet traffic.

[yanks12025]

So it's starting to look like the Yankees probably won this trade. Montero looks to be a bust and Evan a user of peds.

[5toolplayer]

Who is Evan? I didn't know Evan was accused of PED use. I hope he gets 50 games for this. Damn you Evan!!!

[yanks12025]

Who is Evan? I didn't know Evan was accused of PED use. I hope he gets 50 games for this. Damn you Evan!!!

**^even... Stupid autocorrect

[slab0meat]

Good time to revisit this..

[yanks12025]

Figured I'd bump this thread one more time to look at how the trade has turned out.

Michael Pineda has so far been a good pitcher for the Yankees. While Jesus Montero is a minor league bum!

[BirdsOnBat]

Whoa this thread.

Pineda's been worth 6 more wins in his short career thus far while Montero has barely been above replacement level. I'm not sure what the argument is.

[cjclong]

Pineda just struck out 16 today with no walks.

[CollectGU]

I've been saying this was a terrible move for NY since the night the trade was announced!! And still people are saying "give it 5 years" M's HANDS DOWN won this trade and thats all that needs to be said. Everyone who supported Cashman and his brilliant idea of trading away the Yankees best hitting prospect since Jeter can finally admit it was the wrong move. Cashman already has!

PS...Montero another JACK last night!! R.O.Y

This is why trades like this need time to be evlauated. Reality is now trending 180 degrees opposite of your post...I say trending because Pineda could blow out his arm tomorrow. He is, however, currently pitching as an ace and early cy young candidate....

[BirdsOnBat]

Pineda just struck out 16 today with no walks.

It typically takes Montero 4 games to accomplish such a feat.

(I couldn't help myself)

[yanks12025]

Actually I want to congratulate Montero. He hit his 100th career minor league home run this week. lol

[5toolplayer]

Actually I want to congratulate Montero. He hit his 100th career minor league home run this week. lol

Maybe MiLB will auction off that HR ball so you can add it to your impressive collection. Montero HR ball and a Kris Bryant 4th career walk ball...thats thread worthy. Keep up the good work Brock

[yanks12025]

Maybe MiLB will auction off that HR ball so you can add it to your impressive collection. Montero HR ball and a Kris Bryant 4th career walk ball...thats thread worthy. Keep up the good work Brock



I don't collect items from cheaters! And sorry I'm not rich and can't afford thousands of dollars worth of bats but I'm pretty happy with my collection(which you have never seen what I actually have). At least I don't run around with a giant cut out of a player who's probably 20 years younger then you. That's a little creepy.

[5toolplayer]

Broccoli, you are an internet troll. No more no less. You come on here and bitch and cry about $50 dollar bat offers and post about a ball that was used during a walk and hope & pray it was used the entire AB . If you wanna get personal I can sure go there if you want to buddy, just let me know. Because I have more then enough ammo to send a cross eyed little boy like you crawling back to your mommy's basement.

[yanks12025]

Broccoli, you are an internet troll. No more no less. You come on here and bitch and cry about $50 dollar bat offers and post about a ball that was used during a walk and hope & pray it was used the entire AB . If you wanna get personal I can sure go there if you want to buddy, just let me know. Because I have more then enough ammo to send a cross eyed little boy like you crawling back to your mommy's basement.




Lol Scott. You're just too funny. Your name proves true to you, A TOOL!! You're nothing but a pompous a-hole who thinks he's better then everyone. You're the type of person who thinks their sh*t don't smell. And you prove it by attacking my small collection because I'm not wealthy like you. But you know what in my 11 years of collecting, I've owned some great gamers(Ott, mantle, Kiner, Larry Berra, Lajoie, Waner, furillo from 55, and the list goes on).

Im done talking to you because you know nothing. Case in point, you thought montero would be such a great player. Yet he's a bum. Have a good day Scott and happy collecting. If you feel the need to discuss this more, you can email me at boblee89@yahoo.com instead of wasting people's time on this board.

[gorilla777]

What did I miss?

[5toolplayer]

Find me the post where I said I was better then anyone else on GUU. If you find it, please post it. I just know for a fact that I'm better then you. And I'm wealthy because I've sent the majority of my life overseas living like a dog protecting scumbags. So while I was doing that and making my way, you are taking pictures of people at walmart sitting on chairs and being a funny guy. You should have left this thread alone instead of trying to be a tough guy and starting s*** up with something who thinks you are a complete turd. To be honest, you should be pretty excited that someone like me is even wasting their time replying to someone like you but enough is enough and I'll leave it at that.

[yanks12025]

Wow. I didn't expect you to creep/stalk me on Facebook. That's creepy as hell.




Have a good one Scott! Hope to see you at the national.

[5toolplayer]

Come on tough guy lets get personal ...since you "At least don't run around with a giant cut out of a player who's probably 20 years younger then you. That's a little creepy."

At least show everyone all those beautiful pictures of you & your cat. Tell ya what, I'll post my multiple pictures with the President & Congressmen and you post the photoshopped pictures of your cat as a walking dead character. HAHAHAHA

[yanks12025]

Come on tough guy lets get personal ...since you "At least don't run around with a giant cut out of a player who's probably 20 years younger then you. That's a little creepy."

At least show everyone all those beautiful pictures of you & your cat. Tell ya what, I'll post my multiple pictures with the President & Congressmen and you post the photoshopped pictures of your cat as a walking dead character. HAHAHAHA

Keep talking Scott. I dont care if you've met the president or congressmen. I told you I'm done talking. I don't care what you do for a living, I don't care if you've been overseas protecting scumbags, I don't care if you're rich.

I'm fine with my small collection, I'm happy with my life and I enjoy doing fun things in life whether it involves taking a photo of some random guy reading a book in the middle of walmart or if it means turning my pet cat in a walking dead character. I don't care if you have a better life than me. Because you know why??? I"M HAPPY WITH MY LIFE!

And now I'm going to be the bigger person and stop talking. I will not reply to a post here or to any of your posts anymore. And again, have a good day Scott and happy collecting! :)

[yanks12025]

here you go

[5toolplayer]

And now I'm going to be the bigger person and stop talking. I will not reply to a post here or to any of your posts anymore. And again, have a good day Scott and happy collecting! :)[/QUOTE]


Only thing you've said since Jan 2006 that I agree with. Enjoy your life

[5toolplayer]

here you go

Must make you feel so bad ass to sneak behind an old man, snap a picture and post it on the internet. What an awesome life.

[ndevlin]

Ok, this is getting a little weird....

[kellsox]

My unbiased opinion after reading this thread is that yanks and 5 tool both sound like absolute fools

[5toolplayer]

[QUOTE=kellsox;379007]My unbiased opinion after reading this thread is that yanks and 5 tool both sound like absolute fools[/QUOTE

And when did we ask you to sit and read through the thread and give your opinion on the matter? This thread was bumped because Broccoli knew I'd come back at him full blast. Let this thread die... the trade happened in 2013. MOVE ON.

[CollectGU]

[QUOTE=kellsox;379007]My unbiased opinion after reading this thread is that yanks and 5 tool both sound like absolute fools[/QUOTE

And when did we ask you to sit and read through the thread and give your opinion on the matter? This thread was bumped because Broccoli knew I'd come back at him full blast. Let this thread die... the trade happened in 2013. MOVE ON.

I agree that you both got personal and ridiculous. Scott, you were so vocal in may multiple posts about this trade about how bad it was for the yanks, that you can't now pull the "Let's move on". It would be better to grab some humble pie, make light of it, and move on. Case in point, I texted my neighbor, big time Ranger fan, that the series is over" when the Caps went up 3-1. He reminded me of this immediately after Stepan scored. Time for me to eat Crow...so showed up at his house yesterday with a bottle of Old Crow bourbon. We both enjoyed the Crow together on his porch....Know when to fold em' and wave the white flag! Its the fun of sports....

[gingi79]

I love this thread personally. (at least before it became awkward with mudslinging)

I think we have all had a favorite player traded away. It sucks and we are personally offended. Scott hated the trade both as a personal fan of the player and a fan of the Yanks. Others thought it was a good trade for the Yanks or the M's and we all kinda agreed to "Wait and see."

First Montero was excelling while Pineda got seriously hurt. Now Montero is in the minors and Pineda struck out 16 during his last outing. This debate should be over, right?

Except Josh Hamilton came back from worse to be an All Star with a $100 Million plus contract and two WS teams due in major part to his contributions and Phil Humber (who?) had a perfect game once in 2012. (Insert any such pitcher with one truly memorable outing. There are literally dozens) The point is, neither career has played out yet and this trade has literally been a gem and a curse to both sides. Right now, the Yanks stole Pineda. 2 years ago, the M's stole Montero. If Montero doesn't improve and Pineda's shoulder gives out, this trade netted nothing but publicity. If Montero rebounds and becomes the Comeback Player of the Year in 2017 while Pineda gets fat again and tears a rotator cuff, the see-saw re-balances.

[CollectGU]

Agreed! This thread is why we all love sports ! zombie cats...not so much