Cooperstown: Does it Matter to You?

[frikativ54]

First of all, congrats to Barry Larkin. Let me say that by writing this, I am not trying to diminish his honor or anything like that. That being said, I was wondering if anybody shares my sentiments regarding the Baseball HOF. For me, increasingly, I don't really care if the players I grew up idolizing make it.

I watched Edgar Martinez growing up, but do I care if he's in Cooperstown? I value Edgar for his game winning double in the 1995 ALDS. As for Bagwell, his career means a lot of me, but I don't really care what others think about it. If writers want to feel like he's a steroid cheater, that's their business.

What, if anything, does Cooperstown mean to you?

[AWA85]

Having my favorite player of all time that I watched growing up make it to the HOF means a lot to myself. Meeting him and getting his autograph when I was 7 years old set me a Reds fan forever. He will forever be known as a Hall of Famer, it doesn't get any better as a fan and collector of the player.

[vdsporty25]

Great day for Barry Larkin and Reds fans everywhere!! Such a great honor to be recognized as an outstanding player, leader and team mate that he was. I couldn't be happier for him. Seeing the Reds sweep the A's in 1990 was the first World Series I remember being on TV when I was a little kid and Barry Larkin along with Eric Davis and the crazy manager Lou Pinella that threw bases the coolest guys around! I loved the under dogs and they were just that.... making them my team from then on. I will make my first trip to the HOF in July to see him get enshrined! :D

[asr1084]

Having my favorite player of all time that I watched growing up make it to the HOF means a lot to myself. Meeting him and getting his autograph when I was 7 years old set me a Reds fan forever. He will forever be known as a Hall of Famer, it doesn't get any better as a fan and collector of the player.

Lets see some of those Larkin items in honor of him?

[legaleagle92481]

The Hall of Fame is a total joke. Your either a HOFer or your not. The way the writers don't vote for someone one year then do the next to me is absurd. Also many people have gotten in just so they could have a ceremony that year. Would anyone have traded Bery Blynn for Jack Morris in their primes? Or Tony Perez for Mark McGwire? And alot of the guys in there are worse then guys not in, in many cases alot worse. McGwire, Palermiro, McGriff, Bagwell and Morris all should be HOFers but most will never make it. Steroids to me don't matter because noone knows who was really clean.

[Bondsgloves]

The Hall of Fame is a total joke. Your either a HOFer or your not. The way the writers don't vote for someone one year then do the next to me is absurd. Also many people have gotten in just so they could have a ceremony that year. Would anyone have traded Bery Blynn for Jack Morris in their primes? Or Tony Perez for Mark McGwire? And alot of the guys in there are worse then guys not in, in many cases alot worse. McGwire, Palermiro, McGriff, Bagwell and Morris all should be HOFers but most will never make it. Steroids to me don't matter because noone knows who was really clean.

100% agree, couldn't have said it much better.

[sox83cubs84]

It mattered plenty to me when Ron Santo finally got in. He should have been there decades ago.

Dave Miedema

[sylbry]

I used to care, but Ron Santo's election finally pushed me to the I don't give an F'. How do you vet a guy for 30 years? What changed? How can he be passed for so long then finally get in? And when do you finally say, no and mean it? It's absurd.

Then I read that boneheaded article by SI's Tom Verducci saying that next year he will vote for Jack Morris. So let me get this straight, next year Jack Morris will be a Hall of Famer in your opinion, but not this year? That reasoning defies logic. Why next year? Morris isn't going to add to his stat totals. Perhaps Tom believes Morris will have a stellar year doing radio color commentary for Twins games. I swear, when baseball writers get a ballot in hand they become stupid, and in some cases, more so than usual.

As much as I liked Jack Morris as a kid and still believe Game 7 of the 1991 World Series was the greatest pitching performance ever, at this point I couldn't care less if he is ultimately elected. In my opinion, if a player's case can't be made in the affirmative in five years, well then it has been made in the negative.

[Titans74]

Cooperstown means squat to me. I'm a diehard Palmeiro fan. I doubt he will ever be inducted and it doesn't matter to me in the least.

[gingi79]

Great question. LegalEagle said enough to close the thread, you can't really add on anything necessary. So instead, I'll add to other great thoughts, already in progress.

Bert took 30 seasons and then got in. It's insulting as a fan to think anything changed other than the fact he died. Is that a credential for what some writers saw as borderline? How did his death enhance his numbers or values as a ballplayer? He can't even enjoy the so-called "sympathy" election. (Not saying he didn't deserve it, just saying it is under weird circumstance) Whether he deserved it or not, either it was too late or not necessary.

I like Barry Larkin. If you grew up in the 1980's, if someone said "Who plays for the Reds?", either you said Chris Sabo (at least briefly) or you knew the game and said Barry Larkin. The guy played hard, with class and had enough talent to make the Hall. He played 20 seasons with the same team. No one dreams he used steroids. If he didn't play in the same league as Ozzie Smith, he'd have more than 3 Gold Gloves (Being the second best SS in the NL behind a HOF like "The Wizard" for 15 seasons? Not shabby)

However in almost two decades: He only has 2,340 hits for an average of 123 a season. He averaged less than 10 HR a season and less than 51 rbi. He wasn't a threat to steal. Is it possible that he was elected because he is a clean anti-Steroid player from a decade drowning in them?

Agree or not, aren't these questions allowing entirely too much debate of whether or not he ever deserves to be there? A real HOF should be filled by guys no one doubts. Has anyone said Mickey, the Duke, Willie, the Babe, Gehrig, Stan the Man, Ozzie, Cal, Schmidt, The Yankee Clipper, Brooks.....etc don't belong there? (Eclectic mix, right?) I think Larkin becomes a no brainer in 10 seasons when and if none of the steroid users get in.

[Titans74]

Great question. LegalEagle said enough to close the thread, you can't really add on anything necessary. So instead, I'll add to other great thoughts, already in progress.

Bert took 30 seasons and then got in. It's insulting as a fan to think anything changed other than the fact he died. Is that a credential for what some writers saw as borderline? How did his death enhance his numbers or values as a ballplayer? He can't even enjoy the so-called "sympathy" election. (Not saying he didn't deserve it, just saying it is under weird circumstance) Whether he deserved it or not, either it was too late or not necessary.

I like Barry Larkin. If you grew up in the 1980's, if someone said "Who plays for the Reds?", either you said Chris Sabo (at least briefly) or you knew the game and said Barry Larkin. The guy played hard, with class and had enough talent to make the Hall. He played 20 seasons with the same team. No one dreams he used steroids. If he didn't play in the same league as Ozzie Smith, he'd have more than 3 Gold Gloves (Being the second best SS in the NL behind a HOF like "The Wizard" for 15 seasons? Not shabby)

However in almost two decades: He only has 2,340 hits for an average of 123 a season. He averaged less than 10 HR a season and less than 51 rbi. He wasn't a threat to steal. Is it possible that he was elected because he is a clean anti-Steroid player from a decade drowning in them?

Agree or not, aren't these questions allowing entirely too much debate of whether or not he ever deserves to be there? A real HOF should be filled by guys no one doubts. Has anyone said Mickey, the Duke, Willie, the Babe, Gehrig, Stan the Man, Ozzie, Cal, Schmidt, The Yankee Clipper, Brooks.....etc don't belong there? (Eclectic mix, right?) I think Larkin becomes a no brainer in 10 seasons when and if none of the steroid users get in.


Which "Bert" are you referring to that took 30 years to get in and is dead? At first I though Blyleven, but he is alive.

[gingi79]

Should have been Santo took 30 years. I meant to add something about Bert but somehow switched the names. Mea Culpa

[Klattsy]

I agree with a lot of things being said, especially you either are or aren't.

I don't think players should have to wait for the second year, i don't think *unproven* steroid use should be a factor, I do believe *proven* steroid use should. I don't think the vote should be "personal" like Mark Simon said on Baseball Today podcast. It's not a personal vote, you are representing the whole baseball community. Don't vote for someone who saved your cousins cat from a tree. Vote for the numbers.

And by proven I mean: 1. The substance you took was illegal, and deemed illegal at the time, and known/published to be illegal 2. you admitted or tested positive to tests for that substance. That's cheating.

Having said that, i can't think of a better way to vote people in. I don't like quotas or tiers of players (Like Bill Simmons has in his Basketball HOF). You can't set arbitrary stat numbers.

Maybe nothing really needs to be fixed? Maybe this is one of the reasons we love baseball so much, because it generates discussion. Everyone has different views and reasons (personal or not).

Mark.

[onlyalbert]

Seems like it has turned into not whether you are "worthy" of election but rather whether you are worthy "that year" based on who else is up for election....hence Barry getting in. Voters changing their votes is baffeling.

[panthrotc]

Mazerowski, Rizzuto, Santo , Tony Perez, and guys who were on the ballot for 15+ years who get in on their last shot ???

if they werent a HOF'r in their first few years how are they a hof'r 10-15 years later?

its a sham. Politics and BS. Robbie Alomar was the best 2b for a decade. He was first ballot. Its a complete joke.


would i like mcgwire to get in? sure, but i wont lose sleep if he gets shut out every january.

[rufusandherschel]

The HOF voting process has become a 'JOKE' ! I give less and less attention, and care less, to the entire affair with each passing year. Sad but true!

[cjclong]

I think the writers feel they have to elect someone every year. So if a player is at the top of a weak group one year he has a good chance of getting in just because the writers pick someone every year. If there was a real superstar on the ballot they wouldn't get in. I think it would improve the caliber of players in the HOF if the writers took the position that some years that there isn't anyone on the ballot who really qualifies.

[gnishiyama]

Has there ever been a year where nobody got in? As others mentioned
it seems like they're pressing every year to get at least one player in. I think
Barry Larkin deserved it but once Santo got in and now talks of Morris,
we're beginning to lower the HOF standards into a gray area that can forever
tarnish what it is to be a true hall of famer. I mean is this because the
whole HOF is a business? I mean a player inducted every year means
tourism, $$ to Cooperstown economy, etc.

Are we going to start labeling certain HOFers into the "they only got in
because there was nobody else?" sub-category? That's not good.

As mentioned countless times even if it takes you few tries maybe because you
were eligible with too many first/second ballot candidates, once
you're in there shouldn't be much debate after wards on whether he
deserved it or not.

Donnie Baseball will forever be my favorite player of all time but
for everybody's sake how long are they going to keep him and other
fringe superstars on the ballot when they simply don't deserve to be in?

In Japan they have two separate Hall of Fames. Players become eligible
to gain membership in the Meikyukai (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meikyukai) when he reaches a certain milestone
set by the Meikyukai committee. Although not as prestigious as the
getting into the Yakyu Dendo which is the equivalent of the HOF here,
when players reach milestones set forth such as 2,000 hits and 200 wins
its celebrated much more than just a milestone. With longer schedules
and more players in MLB, obviously the those numbers would have to
be changed but I wouldn't mind seeing something similar here where
a player with "not quite HOF #'s but outstanding career #'s" gets
recognition. I'm sure that it will never happen but just saying...

Just as a Yankees fan I can see Bernie Williams, Johnny Damon,
Mattingly, Posada, Mussina, Andy Pettitte in this category.

[momen55]

i will go visit the shrine because i have never been there, plus i want my son
to see it as well. other than that, i don't care for it anymore as there doesn't
seem to be enough talent left to induct. some of the ones inducted in the past few years are because there weren't any others to pick from. not to mention it is all about money.
personally, i would love to see sangy or al oliver in. they had better numbers than some recent inductees.

[Mark17]

I used to care, but Ron Santo's election finally pushed me to the I don't give an F'. How do you vet a guy for 30 years? What changed? How can he be passed for so long then finally get in? And when do you finally say, no and mean it? It's absurd.

Then I read that boneheaded article by SI's Tom Verducci saying that next year he will vote for Jack Morris. So let me get this straight, next year Jack Morris will be a Hall of Famer in your opinion, but not this year? That reasoning defies logic. Why next year? Morris isn't going to add to his stat totals. Perhaps Tom believes Morris will have a stellar year doing radio color commentary for Twins games. I swear, when baseball writers get a ballot in hand they become stupid, and in some cases, more so than usual.

As much as I liked Jack Morris as a kid and still believe Game 7 of the 1991 World Series was the greatest pitching performance ever, at this point I couldn't care less if he is ultimately elected. In my opinion, if a player's case can't be made in the affirmative in five years, well then it has been made in the negative.

Agree 100%.

As a Twins fan, I was really annoyed that it took the writers so long to elect Harmon Killebrew. With well over 500 career home runs, everyone knew he was a HOFer, so why didn't they just put him in as soon as he was eligible. Instead, they waited several years, and then elected him. What was the point of that? To embarrass him??

And there wasn't a nicer player around, either. It made me feel bad for him, and for the process.