Deadbeat Collectors

[G1X]

I believe that this topic has been discussed before - and part of this post is a repeat of what I stated in another thread earlier today in a different section of GUU Forum - but I feel that it bears repeating in its own thread as this problem seems to be getting worse.

No one likes to be strung out on a deal and left hanging out to dry. If you say that you are going to buy something and tell the seller that the payment is forthcoming, then either send the payment as promised or else be mature enough to let the seller know immediately that you had a change of heart and need to back out of the deal.

Most of us have been in the position where we had to back out of a deal, and there are usually no hard feelings on the seller's end (even if the excuse is lame). What irritates and frustrates any seller is when a buyer shows a complete lack of common courtesy and respect by failing to communicate their change of heart and then refuses to answer follow-up inquiries from the seller. Making false promises and stringing out the seller is not only unfair to the seller, it is also unfair to others who might have been interested in the item.

Here is a bit of free advice. Your word and your reputation are all that you really have in this hobby. Word gets around very quickly. Play this game enough times with enough people, and you might find yourself sitting at the same table with several other collectors guilty of this type of behavior (whose names will remain silent to protect the guilty) who are now at the point where they have a growing list of collectors and dealers who refuse to do deal with them.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net (gixc@verizon.net)

Always looking for World Football League jerseys, NFL/AFL durene jerseys, Atlanta Falcons jerseys, and Willie McGee and Darren Lewis game-used items.

[G1X]

Folks,

Could we please stay on topic in this thread? Thousands and thousands and thousands of words have been typed in this Forum - and rightly so - about the wrong-doings of dealers. Yet, little is said about the collectors who don't do the right thing.

Unless you are involved in selling more than an occasional item, you probably have never had this happen to you and perhaps are not that attuned to the frustration it creates. For me, it is not about the money, it is about common hobby courtesy and the simple act of communicating.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net (gixc@verizon.net)

Always looking for World Football League jerseys, NFL/AFL durene jerseys, Atlanta Falcons jerseys, and Willie McGee and Darren Lewis game-used items.

[godwulf]

Mark....

Most of the regular posters to this board are not Sellers, so it would not be reasonable for them to share your exact perspective, however much they might sympathyze with it.

I, for one, don't believe that pointing out, as several have, that pretty much the exact complaint frequently exists with regard to Sellers as you have about Buyers is at all wildly off-topic or irrelevant. It's just the other side of the same coin (or jersey).

Both Seller and Buyer should be open, honest and prompt in communication, and do exactly what they promise. If someone falls down in one of those areas, it really doesn't matter which side of the transaction they're occupying - does it?

Jeff

[rufusandherschel]

Mark....

Most of the regular posters to this board are not Sellers, so it would not be reasonable for them to share your exact perspective, however much they might sympathyze with it.

I, for one, don't believe that pointing out, as several have, that pretty much the exact complaint frequently exists with regard to Sellers as you have about Buyers is at all wildly off-topic or irrelevant. It's just the other side of the same coin (or jersey).

Both Seller and Buyer should be open, honest and prompt in communication, and do exactly what they promise. If someone falls down in one of those areas, it really doesn't matter which side of the transaction they're occupying - does it?

Jeff

Well put!

[b.heagy]

nothing frustrates me more when another dealer leaves you hanging and never comes through. especially when you made many sympathy purchases in the past to HELP THEM raise funds for fresh inventory.

[gwh11]

It should be said that for someone as patient, flexible and courteous as Mark Hayne to have to post this sort of reminder, this potential buyer must really be a nightmare.
-Guy

[Neely8]

I think there are far more inconsiderate time wasting tire kickers than dishonest sellers on this Forum.

[Mulligans]

I think there are far more inconsiderate time wasting tire kickers than dishonest sellers on this Forum.

I could not agree more......I sell and buy a good amount and in my opinion 99% of all my problems come with buyers in this hobby and many are those who I met through the forum. Unfortunately serious buyers are few and far between.

It's not always about price but more about the pain and suffering that they put you through only to leave you nowhere.

If a jersey comes through NFL auctions and is in the psa database as game used and easily photomatched.....why would someone ask you to get them the measurements of the Captains patch......do a 3 Week analysis and then tell you that they are going to pass because they feel that the captains patch color is off slightly?? I'm a firm believer of due diligence, but I think that's crazy!

[jppopma]

I agree with Neely and Mulligans on the tire kickers; or more so the expectations. I don't even sell much at all, but see all of the people needing every little detail (many that make no difference at all).

Neely can understand this better than anyone; it's like in a court case when they want DNA on a case where the person was caught in the act.

From a buyers perspective, I hope that I don 't come across as a tire kicker...I just have bad luck on being offered the same jerseys over and over (usually just another set of the same year). Then teased by other jerseys that I am patiently waiting to buy..hint hint hint.

[G1X]

I am a bit disappointed that this thread continues to get off track. I hear what everyone is saying and agree with just about everything that has been stated. However, my point is not about dealers or "tire kickers" (although I well understand complaints about both). My original post was strictly intended to point out deadbeats who do not pay the bill as promised and then refuse to communicate.

To Neely9, Mulligans, and jppopma,
In your posts about "tire kickers", it appears that at least you are getting a response most of the time. I would be perfectly happy to simply get a response instead of being left hanging out to dry with a "sale pending" tag attached to the item on my price list. (Having to "repost" that item to the price list can often create a whole different set of issues for me and most sellers which is a discussion for another day.)

To Guy,
Thanks for your kind words and completely understanding the intent of this thread.

To Bill Heagy,
Hey, what about a few "sympathy purchases" from me? :) Seriously, you have always been a pleasure to deal with and communicate with, and it is much appreciated. I think that your comment would make an excellent topic for a separate thread!

To Jeff (godwulf),
I wholeheartedly agree with your last paragraph. But again, this thread is not about dealers. I am much more of a collector than a dealer and, having been in the game-used hobby since 1974, I would like to think that I am well attuned to not only both sides of the coin, but also all 360 degrees of the reeded edges of that coin. This doesn't make me any smarter or wiser than anyone else, but it certainly has put me into the position of having a whole lot of experiences to reflect upon. There isn't much from both buyers and sellers that I have not seen, and nothing anyone does that is unethical really shocks me anymore.

To brewcrew, frik, and rufusandherschel,
By quickly turning this into a dealer issue, you have all but deflected the heat away from the intended targets. You probably meant well, but in a sense, it was a disservice and a bit disrespectful to hijack this thread and the clear point that I was making about deadbeat collectors. Perhaps you could start a separate thread about dishonest dealers and share your experiences. As stated above, I am much more of a collector than a dealer, so I get it and feel your pain and frustration with dishonest dealers.

I prefer not to get into these sort of negative discussions as I try to stick strictly to informative and educational postings in this Forum, but after getting burned by deadbeats three times in the past month and many other times over the years, I felt overly compelled to post my frustrations.
I started this thread not so much as a debate or discussion topic - and certainly not about dealers - but to point out some facts of life to those collectors (especially ones reading this Forum) who do not give a second thought about making financial promises that they cannot/will not keep, and then go incommunicado.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net (gixc@verizon.net)

Always looking for World Football League jerseys, NFL/AFL durene jerseys, Atlanta Falcons jerseys, and Willie McGee and Darren Lewis game-used items.

[cohibasmoker]

I believe that this topic has been discussed before - and part of this post is a repeat of what I stated in another thread earlier today in a different section of GUU Forum - but I feel that it bears repeating in its own thread as this problem seems to be getting worse.

No one likes to be strung out on a deal and left hanging out to dry. If you say that you are going to buy something and tell the seller that the payment is forthcoming, then either send the payment as promised or else be mature enough to let the seller know immediately that you had a change of heart and need to back out of the deal.

Most of us have been in the position where we had to back out of a deal, and there are usually no hard feelings on the seller's end (even if the excuse is lame). What irritates and frustrates any seller is when a buyer shows a complete lack of common courtesy and respect by failing to communicate their change of heart and then refuses to answer follow-up inquiries from the seller. Making false promises and stringing out the seller is not only unfair to the seller, it is also unfair to others who might have been interested in the item.

Here is a bit of free advice. Your word and your reputation are all that you really have in this hobby. Word gets around very quickly. Play this game enough times with enough people, and you might find yourself sitting at the same table with several other collectors guilty of this type of behavior (whose names will remain silent to protect the guilty) who are now at the point where they have a growing list of collectors and dealers who refuse to do deal with them.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net (gixc@verizon.net)

Always looking for World Football League jerseys, NFL/AFL durene jerseys, Atlanta Falcons jerseys, and Willie McGee and Darren Lewis game-used items.

Mark,

I'm with you - All you're asking for is a little courtesy - I guess that's too much to ask these days.

-Just an opinion, hope I didn't offend anyone.

Jim

[brewcrew]

Mark,
I hear what you are saying, and I did not mean to be disrespectful. The point I was making is that sadly there are too many people on both sides of this hobby who don't hold up their ends of the bargain, whether financially or morally. And I'm sorry that you've had to deal with folks who have apparently failed to follow through with what they have agreed to do. That's definitely not cool.

On another board I frequent we have a feedback thread for transactions. I suppose we occasionally post feedback for folks on their C to C threads, but perhaps it would be helpful to actually create a thread (or even make it a sticky) so that people could post their positive experiences with other members during trades/purchases.

It gets a bit stickier when we start talking about the negative experiences...and as I have found, much of discovering who the bad apples are depends on who you know and who you ask. Some of that just comes with learning from bad transactions, but that shouldn't happen. You don't want to badmouth people who just had bad communication or had a misunderstanding, but I also think it's fair to folks on both sides to know who's going to jerk you around, whether they're buying or selling. I'm sure that the other people on this board who sell merchandise want to know who to avoid, just like you. :)

[G1X]

Jim,
You know me well. I am really quite easy and understanding - just a simple communication to cancel the transaction (not even a need to provide a detailed explanation), and an occasional "thank you" when I provide information or assistance goes a real long way with me!

brewcrew,
Thanks for your post and not taking my previous post the wrong way as no malice was intended towards you, frik, or rufusandherschel. I agree 100% with the point you were making as I've been bumped and bruised by both sides over the years. It would be nice to have a feedback system, but I can also see all of the issues it could create if it turned into a tool for negativity.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net (gixc@verizon.net)

Always looking for World Football League jerseys, NFL/AFL durene jerseys, Atlanta Falcons jerseys, and Willie McGee and Darren Lewis game-used items.