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SaintsGeaux
11-23-2011, 01:47 PM
34swtns, I think Walter Peyton and most decent people would be disgusted with your stance which comes across as "not my problem, its yours". You have that right to feel that way but your indignant attitude and arrogance is why I believe the dirty dealers prosper and stay in business. You are smarter than the average guy, or so you think that your collection is perfectly photomatched.

Its difficult but not impossible for a corrupt person to fake use on a jersey especially on a football jersey where shoulder pads distort and stretch the jersey. Keep thinking your JO jerseys are so great and remember this when you sell it GUILTY OF FRAUD.

BU54CB
11-23-2011, 04:51 PM
34swtns, I think Walter Peyton and most decent people would be disgusted with your stance which comes across as "not my problem, its yours". You have that right to feel that way but your indignant attitude and arrogance is why I believe the dirty dealers prosper and stay in business. You are smarter than the average guy, or so you think that your collection is perfectly photomatched.

Its difficult but not impossible for a corrupt person to fake use on a jersey especially on a football jersey where shoulder pads distort and stretch the jersey. Keep thinking your JO jerseys are so great and remember this when you sell it GUILTY OF FRAUD.

I'm a decent person, and I am not disgusted at all by 34swtns stance at all, why should I be? If he is satisfied with the items he purchases from JO, then why do you or anyone else for that matter, care one bit? 34swtns isn't spending your money, so it should not matter to you.

I'd also bet my paycheck that 34swtns' entire Bears jersey collection is photomatched without a doubt. I have 5 jerseys from JO and they are all photomatched. You indicate its not too difficult to fake use on a GU jersey, I'd say you don't know much about GU football jerseys and probably don't do much research. I could be wrong, but I'm just going by your statement.

By the way, if you're going to use Walter Payton's name, please spell it correctly.

SaintsGeaux
11-23-2011, 05:04 PM
I'm a decent person, and I am not disgusted at all by 34swtns stance at all, why should I be? If he is satisfied with the items he purchases from JO, then why do you or anyone else for that matter, care one bit? 34swtns isn't spending your money, so it should not matter to you.

I'd also bet my paycheck that 34swtns' entire Bears jersey collection is photomatched without a doubt. I have 5 jerseys from JO and they are all photomatched. You indicate its not too difficult to fake use on a GU jersey, I'd say you don't know much about GU football jerseys and probably don't do much research. I could be wrong, but I'm just going by your statement.

By the way, if you're going to use Walter Payton's name, please spell it correctly.

Do as you want. My feelings are when you support a criminal, you are aiding and abetting their livelihood in that business. When will restitution be made to those who now have lost market value in their JO items?

My apologies for not spelling Mr. Payton's name correctly.

schubert1970
11-23-2011, 07:23 PM
I'm a decent person, and I am not disgusted at all by 34swtns stance at all, why should I be? If he is satisfied with the items he purchases from JO, then why do you or anyone else for that matter, care one bit? 34swtns isn't spending your money, so it should not matter to you.

I'd also bet my paycheck that 34swtns' entire Bears jersey collection is photomatched without a doubt. I have 5 jerseys from JO and they are all photomatched. You indicate its not too difficult to fake use on a GU jersey, I'd say you don't know much about GU football jerseys and probably don't do much research. I could be wrong, but I'm just going by your statement.

By the way, if you're going to use Walter Payton's name, please spell it correctly.

Funny how some of you who own JO items and become defensive and feel the need to defend your collection. If you want to make youself feel better then get therapy instead of trying to justify to the forum how your collection is perfect. The fact is you bought items from a bad company, if you ever want to sell them and don't think this whole debacle hurt the value of your items then you must have Lou Lampson syndrome.

BU54CB
11-23-2011, 08:32 PM
Funny how some of you who own JO items and become defensive and feel the need to defend your collection. If you want to make youself feel better then get therapy instead of trying to justify to the forum how your collection is perfect. The fact is you bought items from a bad company, if you ever want to sell them and don't think this whole debacle hurt the value of your items then you must have Lou Lampson syndrome.

I'm not defensive at all and don't need to defend my collection. I have photo matches and team LOA's, so I feel just fine, no therapy needed.

My items are authentic and can be proven so, why should the value change? Are you also saying that photo matches and team LOA's don't mean anything?

nickacs
11-23-2011, 08:43 PM
I'm not defensive at all and don't need to defend my collection. I have photo matches and team LOA's, so I feel just fine, no therapy needed.

My items are authentic and can be proven so, why should the value change? Are you also saying that photo matches and team LOA's don't mean anything?

Exactly.. Sure I purchased 2 JO game worn jerseys from last season, and both can easily be photomatched to the 2 games the players played in. If I was to sell them right now to an actual memorabilia collector that even knows about the whole JO situation, sure I'm pretty sure I would not get anywhere close to what I paid for them. To the "average Joe" collector, they wouldn't even know. But does it matter? Like we always keep saying, a jersey is worth what someone will pay for it, regardless of where it originated from.

Am I upset at what happened, sure I am! No doubt about it. I'm not defending any actions committed by JOSports in this situation. But I know my jerseys are good and to the 'Saints' guy who keeps saying NFL jerseys are so easy to apply fake grass/dirt stains, sure no doubt about it. BUT, can anyone duplicate the EXACT grass/dirt stains to the EXACT same location and EXACT same color depth, no f-ing way. I don't care who you are, it is impossible. Without actual game photomatching and Getty/AP images to help my jerseys, sure, anything would be possible to fake. However, I feel 100% comfortable that my jerseys are 100% authentic, game worn and I will probably keep them for a very long time and that's all that matters to me :)

masp3392
11-23-2011, 08:53 PM
Exactly.. Sure I purchased 2 JO game worn jerseys from last season, and both can easily be photomatched to the 2 games the players played in. If I was to sell them right now to an actual memorabilia collector that even knows about the whole JO situation, sure I'm pretty sure I would not get anywhere close to what I paid for them. To the "average Joe" collector, they wouldn't even know. But does it matter? Like we always keep saying, a jersey is worth what someone will pay for it, regardless of where it originated from.

Am I upset at what happened, sure I am! No doubt about it. I'm not defending any actions committed by JOSports in this situation. But I know my jerseys are good and to the 'Saints' guy who keeps saying NFL jerseys are so easy to apply fake grass/dirt stains, sure no doubt about it. BUT, can anyone duplicate the EXACT grass/dirt stains to the EXACT same location and EXACT same color depth, no f-ing way. I don't care who you are, it is impossible. Without actual game photomatching and Getty/AP images to help my jerseys, sure, anything would be possible to fake. However, I feel 100% comfortable that my jerseys are 100% authentic, game worn and I will probably keep them for a very long time and that's all that matters to me :)

I dont understand how someone can say its easy to duplicate the exact location of hit marks, grass stains, paint from the turf, helmet color transfers, rips, et c.

completely agree with this post

schubert1970
11-23-2011, 09:26 PM
I'm not defensive at all and don't need to defend my collection. I have photo matches and team LOA's, so I feel just fine, no therapy needed.

My items are authentic and can be proven so, why should the value change? Are you also saying that photo matches and team LOA's don't mean anything?

So why do we all need this detailed info about your JO items? If you're happy with them great. It's like you want to prove to the world aside from the JO issues your stuff is good. Who cares? I'm sure there are people who own JO stuff and don't feel the need to explain their collection to everyone on the forum because their confident in what they own unlike others on this thread.

lakeerie92
11-23-2011, 09:43 PM
So why do we all need this detailed info about your JO items? If you're happy with them great. It's like you want to prove to the world aside from the JO issues your stuff is good. Who cares? I'm sure there are people who own JO stuff and don't feel the need to explain their collection to everyone on the forum because their confident in what they own unlike others on this thread.

You should stop posting because all your posts only try to incite reactions and do not help the discussion in any way. I think this thread would be much more constructive without you.

schubert1970
11-23-2011, 10:00 PM
You should stop posting because all your posts only try to incite reactions and do not help the discussion in any way. I think this thread would be much more constructive without you.

You posted this not long ago. So I should stop posting cause you're staying out of this?? Sound a bit hypocritical to me.

"Like I said, I am staying out of all of this, I just looked up the information to see if there was ties. I have owned one JO item I bought through a GUU auction, and don't collect football so I don't care to get involved with this. I definitely think the rest of the information should come out before the baby is thrown out with the bath water. There will be plenty of time to bash (or support) JO when all of the information is out there. I realize there is a lot of info already out, but the details aren't and I am waiting patiently to hear those."

lakeerie92
11-23-2011, 10:16 PM
You posted this not long ago. So I should stop posting cause you're staying out of this?? Sound a bit hypocritical to me.

"Like I said, I am staying out of all of this, I just looked up the information to see if there was ties. I have owned one JO item I bought through a GUU auction, and don't collect football so I don't care to get involved with this. I definitely think the rest of the information should come out before the baby is thrown out with the bath water. There will be plenty of time to bash (or support) JO when all of the information is out there. I realize there is a lot of info already out, but the details aren't and I am waiting patiently to hear those."

I posted that in a previous thread and you clearly tried to look through my previous posts to try and find something to throw in my face. It was a feeble attempt and really doesn't make much sense.

Your post are not constructive and are preventing this thread from staying on topic. Every post you have made has been an attack post and I think the forum is a better place without your comments.

I am in no way in favor of JO and will never buy from them again. I agree with most and disagree with a few, mostly the way 34swtns handled his posts. I can disagree without trying to attack them.

Feel free to search through my previous 600+ posts to try and find something negative to bait me with, but I accept that this forum is a privilege and not a right. Therefore I will not be responding to anything else you post because there is no way it will be constructive to the overall thread.

BU54CB
11-23-2011, 10:25 PM
So why do we all need this detailed info about your JO items? If you're happy with them great. It's like you want to prove to the world aside from the JO issues your stuff is good. Who cares? I'm sure there are people who own JO stuff and don't feel the need to explain their collection to everyone on the forum because their confident in what they own unlike others on this thread.

You've done nothing but make inflamatory comments in this thread not only toward members but toward Chris Cavalier. What exactly are you trying to prove from your high horse?

You commented on a post that wasn't even directed at you, then make dumb comments and expect no response? I didn't purchase my jerseys from JO when they were a "bad company" and I'd keep going but I'd hate to give anyone reading the feeling that I'm defending my collection or giving detailed info about my items.

Why don't you lay off and find a better cause to direct your efforts?

schubert1970
11-23-2011, 10:26 PM
I posted that in a previous thread and you clearly tried to look through my previous posts to try and find something to throw in my face. It was a feeble attempt and really doesn't make much sense.

Your post are not constructive and are preventing this thread from staying on topic. Every post you have made has been an attack post and I think the forum is a better place without your comments.

I am in no way in favor of JO and will never buy from them again. I agree with most and disagree with a few, mostly the way 34swtns handled his posts. I can disagree without trying to attack them.

Feel free to search through my previous 600+ posts to try and find something negative to bait me with, but I accept that this forum is a privilege and not a right. Therefore I will not be responding to anything else you post because there is no way it will be constructive to the overall thread.

The post I quoted is basically the same subject. Since you didn't want to be involved I suggest you stop posting on this subject as you've stated in earlier posts. What gives you the right to tell people to stop posting? You're just bitter because you said one thing and did another on this topic and I called you on it.

Happy Thanksgiving Russ!

SaintsGeaux
11-23-2011, 10:41 PM
You should stop posting because all your posts only try to incite reactions and do not help the discussion in any way. I think this thread would be much more constructive without you.

I see the angle schubert1970 has. If you feel you have a photomatch, great for them. Anyone can claim they have a definitive photomatch. It can be very subjective. Otismalibu made some excellent points on what becomes a big blur. You can find a photomatch on Urlacher and Cutler, good luck on Lance Louis. That's the main issue on the common player. The other issue even on the stars is getting Hi Res photos. I am not fond of Low Res as they really become blurred as you enlarge.

For the doubters, I truly believe I could take a jersey and fake the use on it. Of course it wouldn't be exact because it is a fake. What happens is your eyes can play tricks on you sometimes you see what you want to see. I have a background in reconstructing scenes using modeling. We use CAD and machines that can duplicate in 3D and I would do something similar to take a photo and scale the exact size and then color separate using an altering system. I would cut out screens as if I were painting areas and put the jersey over shoulder pads on a real person and work hit marks and grass stains, chalk, and even synthetic field colors in small areas. Again, it wouldn't be exact but I could get it close. The most difficult part is for receivers and running backs when they get the pebbled ball marks when you are tackled on top of the football. I could replicate that look by cutting out sections of a football in the size and shape of the impact mark and apply the marks with force.

nycpropain
11-24-2011, 08:35 AM
I dont understand how someone can say its easy to duplicate the exact location of hit marks, grass stains, paint from the turf, helmet color transfers, rips, et c.

completely agree with this post

I understand, go grab a white shirt and a hunk of grass and dirt. Its not hard at all.

mickeymbz
11-24-2011, 11:42 AM
I understand, go grab a white shirt and a hunk of grass and dirt. Its not hard at all.
BS

nycpropain
11-24-2011, 02:12 PM
BS

So you have tried? Or is this based on nothing? In case you missed this topic you are posting in but the head of JO plead guilty to doing this. So apparently its not as off base as you seem to think.

Dewey2007
11-24-2011, 02:55 PM
I think the difference is the card companies were not trying to photomatch these jerseys like individual collectors do. They just want them to cut up into little pieces. It sounds like they were buying them based on the assumption that they were game worn. It's probably easy to manufacture some fake game wear on some jerseys especially if there is no quality control on their end and you mix them in with some real ones.

To put exactly matching hit marks, rips, team repairs, etc. on a blank football jersey, while not saying it's impossible, would take such painstaking attention to detail that it would not even be worth it IMO especially if you are trying to do this to multiple jerseys. Can you imagine trying to do this to a Darren McFadden or Adrian Peterson jersey? Have you seen how trashed their jerseys are after games. That's about as close to impossible as it would get.

It would be interesting to see someone try to do this. Is there a tv show out there that takes on these kind of challenges?


So you have tried? Or is this based on nothing? In case you missed this topic you are posting in but the head of JO plead guilty to doing this. So apparently its not as off base as you seem to think.

mickeymbz
11-24-2011, 03:10 PM
So you have tried? Or is this based on nothing? In case you missed this topic you are posting in but the head of JO plead guilty to doing this. So apparently its not as off base as you seem to think.
you THINK you can pull it off..but compared to high res photo NO friggn way... you can put your little grass and dirt stains here and there...but NO way you gonna match up mesh holes locations..which IMo are the fingerprint of each shirt. no way u can match those up. and it is WAY off base... collectors/buyers may not be as naive as you

masp3392
11-24-2011, 03:48 PM
I understand, go grab a white shirt and a hunk of grass and dirt. Its not hard at all.

wow, im going to have to let this one go

gingi79
11-24-2011, 04:26 PM
you THINK you can pull it off..but compared to high res photo NO friggn way... you can put your little grass and dirt stains here and there...but NO way you gonna match up mesh holes locations..which IMo are the fingerprint of each shirt. no way u can match those up. and it is WAY off base... collectors/buyers may not be as naive as you

It has been my experience that there is a big difference between hearing and listening when it comes to dispelling the authenticity of their item.

People need very little convincing to see what they want to see. Other collectors much wiser than I have already stated how even knowledgeable collectors will be able to see wear and matches that the rest of us disagree exist. Let us not forget, this site is full of people with background and experience in research and photo matching. We know of websites and have each other (Kyle for example re: Braves at home and any opponent they play at The Ted) The average fan doesn't have these resources at hand.

And let's not forget how many people think a photo match means any photo from a game that some paperwork claims it comes from......:D

David
11-24-2011, 05:21 PM
In the future will be forged/altered 'photo match' photos. You can count on it. You can do a lot with photo shop.

David
11-24-2011, 05:29 PM
A current popular theory is you can't fake photo-matched dirt and wear, because it won't match up exactly to the photo. The problem with that theory being it doesn't take into account the genuine possibility that a forger might be manufacturing both the dirt and grass states on the jersey and the dirt and grass stains in the photo.

David
11-24-2011, 05:31 PM
P.s., I am one hundred percent certain that there will be a future case of a doctored photo-match photo. It's inevitable in this hobby.

mickeymbz
11-24-2011, 05:54 PM
A current popular theory is you can't fake photo-matched dirt and wear, because it won't match up exactly to the photo. The problem with that theory being it doesn't take into account the genuine possibility that a forger might be manufacturing both the dirt and grass states on the jersey and the dirt and grass stains in the photo.

again ,,, as stated previously...you can place your grass/dirt stains here and there...but they (forger) are NOT going to conclusively forge matching aligned mesh hole locations ...to a matching high res GETTY/AP etc photo..... doesnt take a brain surgeon to depend on a high res photo from a reliable source. a pic provided by the so-called forger and its acceptance by the buyer is fool hardy at best,,,,and would be as one stated here..as GOOD as a lampson LOA. obviously this is going to take homework on behalf of the purchaser,,,and obviously this will be a task without jersey in hand

mickeymbz
11-24-2011, 06:03 PM
Exactly.. Sure I purchased 2 JO game worn jerseys from last season, and both can easily be photomatched to the 2 games the players played in. If I was to sell them right now to an actual memorabilia collector that even knows about the whole JO situation, sure I'm pretty sure I would not get anywhere close to what I paid for them. To the "average Joe" collector, they wouldn't even know. But does it matter? Like we always keep saying, a jersey is worth what someone will pay for it, regardless of where it originated from.

Am I upset at what happened, sure I am! No doubt about it. I'm not defending any actions committed by JOSports in this situation. But I know my jerseys are good and to the 'Saints' guy who keeps saying NFL jerseys are so easy to apply fake grass/dirt stains, sure no doubt about it. BUT, can anyone duplicate the EXACT grass/dirt stains to the EXACT same location and EXACT same color depth, no f-ing way. I don't care who you are, it is impossible. Without actual game photomatching and Getty/AP images to help my jerseys, sure, anything would be possible to fake. However, I feel 100% comfortable that my jerseys are 100% authentic, game worn and I will probably keep them for a very long time and that's all that matters to me :)
EXACTLY..... this post hits the nail on the head!! "w/o actual game photomatching and GETTY/AP images....." the source of the photo is obviously the key important part of the equation. trusting a pic from unkown source vs getty/ap pic is akin to trusting lampson loa vs meigray loa.......... not that im an loa guy. just saying

trsent
11-24-2011, 08:08 PM
Are you folks really debating photoshoping photos to show game use?

Wow, shouldn't that be a new thread? What does that have to do with the original topic?

mickeymbz
11-24-2011, 08:23 PM
Are you folks really debating photoshoping photos to show game use?

Wow, shouldn't that be a new thread? What does that have to do with the original topic?
Tell that to the poster who took a post about how JO could EASILY duplicate/replicate dirt/grass stains (absurd) found in photos of athletes to the fact that this goes hand in hand with photoshopped pics to match altered pieces.....

The fact that there is accusation as to "how" JO committed these crimes seems to be "on" the topic

but your condescending tude is appreciated (not)

Tyrcha
11-24-2011, 10:52 PM
This will be my ONLY post on this topic. EVERYTHING I've ever purchased from JO I've been able to photo match. Also, between high school, college, Arena and semi pro I've been a playing football going on 20 years. To go with that I am also a professional graphic/web designer. I can tell you with 99.9% accuaracy that all of my jerseys from JO have been photo matched without any sort of photoshopping from any party. The Bears items I have purchased, in my opinion, are 100% legit.

In my humble opinion, it's time for this thread to be shut down by Chris. All this thread has turned into is a smear campaign against JO Sports Co. At this point there's nothing constructive coming out of this thread. It's time to absoreb what's happend, internalize it and move on. Lets be honest, unless you got your jersey from the actual player who wore it...how do you really know if it's legit or not? Be educated on what you're purchasing.

commando
11-25-2011, 02:04 AM
This and other related threads are quite the study in human nature. More specifically, I am referring to the "knee-jerk" reactions many people seem to have when something big happens. And yes, I do think the J.O./dirty six thing is very big.

With that being said, you see this kind of thinking happen over and over in the financial markets: What? CEO John Doe may have to resign because he lied on his taxes? CALL THE BROKER AND SELL, SELL, SELL! What? Apple's earnings are eight cents below projections this quarter? CALL THE BROKER AND SELL, SELL, SELL! What? The numbers have been audited and it appears that the accountant pocketed a few thousand dollars? SELL, SELL, SELL!!!

To be fair, of course it is possible that J.O. Sports sold bad (or sloppily documented) stuff. I'm not defending anyone in that regard. All I am saying is that when you start talking about forged photo matches from companies that had direct team contracts, you might want to find at least one example before you start spreading the panic. Most card companies were apparently not concerned with photo matches, but were depending on the reputations of the sellers. As has been stated before, there is a big difference between selling to a card company versus selling to a collector who will leave the jersey in one piece -- and will be probably concerned with dates, stains and loose threads.

Once again, this post is not meant to defend anyone. I'm simply looking at how certain people -- whether an investor or collector -- tend to overreact when events happen. A large, quick drop in the price of a stock due to a short-term event usually signals a good time to buy. I'll say the same thing here; if anyone wants to sell me their J.O. jerseys for 20% the price they originally paid, feel free to shoot me an email. :D

nycpropain
11-25-2011, 10:35 AM
This and other related threads are quite the study in human nature. More specifically, I am referring to the "knee-jerk" reactions many people seem to have when something big happens. And yes, I do think the J.O./dirty six thing is very big.

With that being said, you see this kind of thinking happen over and over in the financial markets: What? CEO John Doe may have to resign because he lied on his taxes? CALL THE BROKER AND SELL, SELL, SELL! What? Apple's earnings are eight cents below projections this quarter? CALL THE BROKER AND SELL, SELL, SELL! What? The numbers have been audited and it appears that the accountant pocketed a few thousand dollars? SELL, SELL, SELL!!!

To be fair, of course it is possible that J.O. Sports sold bad (or sloppily documented) stuff. I'm not defending anyone in that regard. All I am saying is that when you start talking about forged photo matches from companies that had direct team contracts, you might want to find at least one example before you start spreading the panic. Most card companies were apparently not concerned with photo matches, but were depending on the reputations of the sellers. As has been stated before, there is a big difference between selling to a card company versus selling to a collector who will leave the jersey in one piece -- and will be probably concerned with dates, stains and loose threads.

Once again, this post is not meant to defend anyone. I'm simply looking at how certain people -- whether an investor or collector -- tend to overreact when events happen. A large, quick drop in the price of a stock due to a short-term event usually signals a good time to buy. I'll say the same thing here; if anyone wants to sell me their J.O. jerseys for 20% the price they originally paid, feel free to shoot me an email. :D


Your examples arent even close to this situation. A better example would be Ford has been selling fake Mustangs for the past 5 years mixing them in with real ones. But there is no way to really know if you are getting a much cheaper replica. Watch the prices then.

And you seem to think they only sold these to card companies, which isnt the case. As for the one example you seem to be needing isnt a federal conviction enough? Is that not one example?

commando
11-25-2011, 12:16 PM
Your examples arent even close to this situation. A better example would be Ford has been selling fake Mustangs for the past 5 years mixing them in with real ones. But there is no way to really know if you are getting a much cheaper replica. Watch the prices then.

And you seem to think they only sold these to card companies, which isnt the case. As for the one example you seem to be needing isnt a federal conviction enough? Is that not one example?

I appreciate your counter response, but I have to disagree. The example of Ford selling fake Mustangs with no way to tell the difference is not a realistic example. Cars, and even jerseys to a large extent, are unique and nearly impossible to fake correctly. If you have a degree of knowledge and access to info such as photos and characteristics of the real thing, you should absolutely be able to say an item is real.

Not to beat a dead horse, but I assume the "fake Mustangs" would be produced by Ford to save some money for the company. The corner-cutting and cheaper parts would be very evident.

I'm sure the dirty six are going to have to account for the bad stuff they sold. Hopefully, as many items as possible will be exposed for the benefit of us all. I will NEVER defend any of these guys.... But many of you on this board did indeed pay good money for good items.

Titans74
11-25-2011, 03:05 PM
I don't own one single JO jersey, but if I collected football I would purchase several. And I say this next sentence with 150% sincerity. I would by from JO before buying from 85% of GUU forum members. There are the very few, extremely rare, good guys here and then there are the majority that lie, cheat, misrepresent items for a buck etc.

Most (nearly all that I have personally looked at) of JO's products can be 100% photomatched and show OUTSTANDING, PHENOMIAL amounts of use. That can't be said about most of the items I've seen here with little to no evidence of use that some of you claim to be "game used".

freddiefreeman5
11-25-2011, 04:24 PM
I don't own one single JO jersey, but if I collected football I would purchase several. And I say this next sentence with 150% sincerity. I would by from JO before buying from 85% of GUU forum members. There are the very few, extremely rare, good guys here and then there are the majority that lie, cheat, misrepresent items for a buck etc.

Most (nearly all that I have personally looked at) of JO's products can be 100% photomatched and show OUTSTANDING, PHENOMIAL amounts of use. That can't be said about most of the items I've seen here with little to no evidence of use that some of you claim to be "game used".
Why do you want to hang out a bunch of cheats and liars? :confused:

schubert1970
11-25-2011, 05:37 PM
In my humble opinion, it's time for this thread to be shut down by Chris. All this thread has turned into is a smear campaign against JO Sports Co. At this point there's nothing constructive coming out of this thread. It's time to absoreb what's happend, internalize it and move on. Lets be honest, unless you got your jersey from the actual player who wore it...how do you really know if it's legit or not? Be educated on what you're purchasing.

Smearing JO Sports???? I'm still laughing over this comment. I think JO smeared themselves. Are you serious????? Sounds like another JO apologist.

If you plan to keep your items and you're happy with them great, but if you wanted to sell them your items took a financial hit photo matched or not.

Titans74
11-25-2011, 06:38 PM
Why do you want to hang out a bunch of cheats and liars? :confused:

Fortunately, for me, I am able to seperate "online world" and real world relationships. I don't "hang out" online. And there are a few, very few, good members left here with whom sharing and talking game used makes it worth what little time I do spend online.

Hope that clears up your confussion.;)

schubert1970
11-25-2011, 06:43 PM
Just saw this new, revamped version of the old thread.
Also saw some turd call me out in the very first post.

saintsgaux and shubert, do yourselves and all of us a favor: go find something else to sit for hours......literally HOURS your posts have required to type all the BS that flows from your gnarled fingertips.......and offer your opinions on.

Watch your neighbors, go sit at an intersection, lurk at the mall, whatever. I'm quite sure you both can find something else to occupy your necessary need to b#@ch about things you have no involvement in.

Your seemingly endless ranting like a couple of old busy-body women has become more than tiresome.

In short, get a life or simply just GO AWAY.

Typical.....once you run out of substance you get personal. Never seen someone so bitter and defensive about their collection. I'll give you this, you're entertaining. Keep 'em comming.

schubert1970
11-25-2011, 06:58 PM
Just saw this new, revamped version of the old thread.
Also saw some turd call me out in the very first post.

saintsgaux and shubert, do yourselves and all of us a favor: go find something else to sit for hours......literally HOURS your posts have required to type all the BS that flows from your gnarled fingertips.......and offer your opinions on.

Watch your neighbors, go sit at an intersection, lurk at the mall, whatever. I'm quite sure you both can find something else to occupy your necessary need to b#@ch about things you have no involvement in.

Your seemingly endless ranting like a couple of old busy-body women has become more than tiresome.

In short, get a life or simply just GO AWAY.


You know what. If I had bought as many items as you had from a fraudulent dealer, I'd be bitter too. I think I should be more understanding of your situation. Hope you future purchases have better results.

SaintsGeaux
11-25-2011, 08:08 PM
34Sweetness, when will you enlighten us on your CONCRETE FACT of how you know who buys from this membership from JO Sports.

Also post photos of your conclusive photomatched jerseys. I want to see how great this collection is and sure others would be educated also.

Tyrcha
11-25-2011, 08:14 PM
And again, for the record, I will absolutely continue buying Bears jerseys from JO Sports and I do not care what any of you think about that.

Have a lovely weekend.

Second.

TriplexXxSports
11-25-2011, 09:14 PM
34Sweetness, when will you enlighten us on your CONCRETE FACT of how you know who buys from this membership from JO Sports.

Also post photos of your conclusive photomatched jerseys. I want to see how great this collection is and sure others would be educated also.


I normally don't get involved in the rif-raf, but I must tell you, Saints, that 34's collection IS exactly what he says it is. He and I share the same passion, and expertise in Bears jersey. Neither he, nor I, will purchase items unless they have EVERYTHING in order.

You want to see some of his stuff, look through my Bears thread. There you will find examples of just how "anal" we are about our collections. Look at some of my previous threads about techniques we use to photomatch...

Meaning NO DISRESPECT, but I would advise doing some research before calling out the senior members of this board.

mickeymbz
11-25-2011, 09:21 PM
Just saw this new, revamped version of the old thread.
Also saw some turd call me out in the very first post.

saintsgaux and shubert, do yourselves and all of us a favor: go find something else to sit for hours......literally HOURS your posts have required to type all the BS that flows from your gnarled fingertips.......and offer your opinions on.

Watch your neighbors, go sit at an intersection, lurk at the mall, whatever. I'm quite sure you both can find something else to occupy your necessary need to b#@ch about things you have no involvement in.

Your seemingly endless ranting like a couple of old busy-body women has become more than tiresome.

In short, get a life or simply just GO AWAY.
I second that motion!

MarkakisMania
11-25-2011, 09:41 PM
I normally don't get involved in the rif-raf, but I must tell you, Saints, that 34's collection IS exactly what he says it is. He and I share the same passion, and expertise in Bears jersey. Neither he, nor I, will purchase items unless they have EVERYTHING in order.

You want to see some of his stuff, look through my Bears thread. There you will find examples of just how "anal" we are about our collections. Look at some of my previous threads about techniques we use to photomatch...

Meaning NO DISRESPECT, but I would advise doing some research before calling out the senior members of this board.


What does that have to do with anything? If memory serves we correctly one achieves Senior Member status after posting like 80 posts on this forum. I believe that is what a moderator told me before. That hardly makes anybody an expert on anything. There are members on here who from their posting info have made only 50 posts but have been members since the inception of this forum and other members who have made over 500 posts in a year or less so it is not like someone actually earns the title of Senior member based on industry knowledge or anything.

MarkakisMania
11-25-2011, 09:46 PM
I stopped monitoring the other thread days ago, just as I said I would, for two reasons: 1) it's Thanksgiving and I have a life, and, 2) it was nothing more than a handful of self-appointed law experts and amateur deputy sheriffs spouting off at the mouth, endlessly repeating the same holier-than-thou, finger pointing statements over and over again.

Sorry, but I've got more than that going on.

I checked back this evening and saw the newly titled thread and thought it might have some interesting new angle on a topic that was related to, but not exactly the same as, the previous ridiculous debacle.
Lo and behold, it's really just a continuation of the same BS with the same finger-pointers flapping their gums and saying the same things they said CONTINUOUSLY on the previous thread.

So, from this point forward, I will only be looking at the two threads that I have had any interest in for the majority of the time I've been a member here: the Bears thread and the NFL thread. Historically, these two threads have been devoid of any "Barneys and Gladys's", and that's the way we like it.

Continue with the amateur sleuthing........I'm out.

And again, for the record, I will absolutely continue buying Bears jerseys from JO Sports and I do not care what any of you think about that.

Have a lovely weekend.

I have heard from a source that works for the NFL that there are now discussions that will begin internally at the NFL once the holiday weekend is over to mandate that all teams sever ties immediately with JO sports based on this plea agreement. From what my buddy is telling me the NFL does not care one way or the other about the specifics of what, when, where, how etc. all of this occured, they see one thing and one thing only it is that JO pled guilty to forging jersey's or selling forged jersey's etc. and at the end of the day they are concerned with only protecting the NFL brand and will not associate with a known felon.

I would not be at all surprised if JO has the rug pulled out form under them sooner than later and at the end of the day, the only thing that you guys might be buying from them is the stuff off the clearance rack as the lights are being turned out for the final time on the showroom floor out in Las Vegas.

Jeb

TriplexXxSports
11-25-2011, 09:54 PM
I think you completely missed the point of my reply...

BostonSportsFan
11-25-2011, 10:01 PM
I have heard from a source that works for the NFL that there are now discussions that will begin internally at the NFL once the holiday weekend is over to mandate that all teams sever ties immediately with JO sports based on this plea agreement. From what my buddy is telling me the NFL does not care one way or the other about the specifics of what, when, where, how etc. all of this occured, they see one thing and one thing only it is that JO pled guilty to forging jersey's or selling forged jersey's etc. and at the end of the day they are concerned with only protecting the NFL brand and will not associate with a known felon.

I would not be at all surprised if JO has the rug pulled out form under them sooner than later and at the end of the day, the only thing that you guys might be buying from them is the stuff off the clearance rack as the lights are being turned out for the final time on the showroom floor out in Las Vegas.

Jeb


Jeb:

I have heard the same thing from several contacts I have with the NFL teams. I am told that this is being discussed on two different fronts, one with the teams themselves and the other inside the NFL offices.

I would honestly expect this to be a no brainer and a mandate to come down quite quickly from the NFL that this business deal would end. JO sports is like pocket change to the NFL but at the end of the day as Jeb mentioned they are going to protect their brand and anything that would possibly have a connection to criminal activity is not going to fly with the NFL brass.

My guess would be they will work on quickly determining if each team can take over its own marketing of game used and the ties with JO will come to an end very, very soon.

I think someone mentioned a possible takeover or buyout. I am told that the NFL wants assurances before they sign off on this that some type of fail-safes are built in to avoid this type of embarrassment ever again or they will not continue their relationship with JO or some other company that buys them out.

I am guessing we will see some changes coming very very soon however again, this is peanuts to the NFL and all of JO's combined sales in the last three years probably don't add up to the beer sales on the 2nd deck at Metlife stadium in a given Sunday. How soon they act depends on how worried they are that this will soil their brand.

Joe

BostonSportsFan
11-25-2011, 10:02 PM
I think you completely missed the point of my reply...

I cannot speak for Jeb but I too would question what Senior status has to do with anything related to any posts being made by anyone on this or any other thread???

Everyone had to get a start somewhere and having 1 post or 10000 means little to nothing about anything.

Joe

commando
11-25-2011, 10:31 PM
Everyone had to get a start somewhere and having 1 post or 10000 means little to nothing about anything.

Joe

Well, if you take the time to go back and read a few hundred informative posts that give good, solid information regarding our hobby, you may feel otherwise.

BostonSportsFan
11-25-2011, 10:47 PM
Well, if you take the time to go back and read a few hundred informative posts that give good, solid information regarding our hobby, you may feel otherwise.

In my experience on this board there are people who have literally done 1000's of post that don't amount to one solid post from others and vise versa. I don't believe for one minute that the amount of posts one has made contributes one way or the other to this board.

You are correct on one thing there are many worthwhile good solid posts on this forum and there are others who seem to be trying to jump their daily post count with absolutely useless nonsense. There are posts on this very thread that fall into that category.

I have been collecting game used for over 40 years and the stupidity of this argument is a perfect example of what I am talking about. I could be a charter member on this forum (I am not and don't pretend to be) but so what. Even with over 40 years of collecting I don't pretend to know everything yet I know that there are very few collectors that have been in this hobby for anywhere close to that length of time yet many collectors who have been collecting for two or three years pretend to begin to think they know it all. It is laughable as the one thing I do know is that I don't begin to know it all.

Lots of informative posts on here but there are also a lot of frankly ridiculous post on here just like there are on every forum and board on the net.




Joe

commando
11-25-2011, 10:57 PM
I agree with you 100%, Joe. I don't want to hijack this thread, so I'll just say that I may not agree with the opinions of several collectors here at any given time... But when it comes to their actual experiences in the hobby, I try to separate their opinions from the facts they have to offer.

We're on the same page here, for sure.

David
11-26-2011, 02:22 PM
Ala the authenticators in Operation Bullpen case (autograph forgery rings), is anyone concerned that eBay might ban LOAs from the dealers convicted for felonies in this case? Operation Bullpen has shown it can and did happen.

David
11-26-2011, 02:52 PM
P.s. it is my guess (I said guess, I have neither inside knowledge nor a crystal ball) that eBay will. That seems to be their policy in these types of cases.

tspane2k
11-26-2011, 09:59 PM
I bought 2 Steven Jackson Jerseys last year from Jo Sports. Both are easily photomatched. With that being said I will not buy anymore items from them just because I don't won't to support those types of actions. I really wanted the blue Steven Jackson jersey they have for sale right now, but I will have to just find it elsewhere.

BrianK
11-28-2011, 12:32 PM
I bought 2 Steven Jackson Jerseys last year from Jo Sports. Both are easily photomatched. With that being said I will not buy anymore items from them just because I don't won't to support those types of actions. I really wanted the blue Steven Jackson jersey they have for sale right now, but I will have to just find it elsewhere.

I feel exactly the same way.