Would you be upset?

[brianborsch]

So I sold a two-tone game issued bat to a person and it happened to be a LVS two-tone bat so it originally has the little colored tape around the two-tone border towards the middle area of the bat.

It was a bat I liked alot and after a few months, I came into some money and decided to check if the buyer would be willing to sell the bat back. I explained that I missed the bat and would be willing to pay more for it to get it back. I end up offering alot more than he paid for it.

So we work it out and I pay and he ships the bat. Well, I get the bat and the colored tape has been removed. So I contact the seller upset and asking for my money back as the bat is not in the condition I left it, and that was what I expected.

He said too bad. He thinks it is not altered in any way (he said it looks better this way?) and he thinks it was ok for him not to mention that he removed the tape before finalizing the deal.
If he would have mentioned that he did that, I would have rescinded my offer because the bat had been altered by an outside source other than the player.

I have tried to plead my case to him and he just isn't having it. So I am curious what your thoughts are? I feel like I have been wronged and he feels like I'm in the wrong...

[flota89]

I agree with your opinion of the situation. If it was clear that you were buying the same bat back, not mentioning any alteration would be wrong for the seller to do. I'd a least want a partial refund.

[camarokids]

Dispute the charge with paypal and get your money back! I hope you did not send the money as a gift??

[short84]

If you file a dispute, take the time to talk to a person. I filed a dispute for a similar situation and originally lost. I purchased a game used football that was presented as being in the same condition as when it left the field. It was through eBay. Seller listed photographs of the ball as it came off the field -- fully inflated -- a very nice collectible. In the description, he was very clear to the buyer that they would receive this item in this condition. After it was paid for (payment included $10 shipping) the seller totally deflated and flattened the ball and sent it to me in a envelope. No where in the listing did the seller state the ball would be totally deflated or altered. I was upset when I received it because in my opinion, he destroyed some of the value by altering the ball. It was no longer in the condition it was in not only at the time of purchase but (and I may be wrong) it was no longer in "a game used" condition or in the same condition that it was in when it left the field. I filed a dispute and tried my best in writing to explain why I felt a piece of game used memorabilia had been altered and why I wanted to return the item and receive a refund. Their response was "just air it up -- it's only a ball". I tried but it no longer would hold air. I could not get anyone to understand the significance of altering a game used item through the written word. I finally spoke to someone and explained the significance of a game used item and won my case. You might have to go through the same experience -- there are very few people who would consider completely deflating a game ball as an alteration but I did. When I purchase a game used item, I expect to receive it exactly as pictured and listed and in the same condition it was in when it came off the field. You may have to plead your case with a person in order to get your money back. I did and received a refund.

[brianborsch]

So I talked to someone at Paypal (before your response) to make sure it could be a legit claim, and they agreed and filed it for me. So we'll see!

[eisenreich8]

Just had the thought that you could see if Brian Hillerich could pull a string or two and have the LVS factory reapply the identical tape for you.

[maverick14]

I'd be very upset as well. No matter what you buy or where you buy it, you should be able to return an item within a certain time frame unconditionally. If I can go to a department store and buy a shirt and come back 2 days later and return it because I no longer like it then why shouldn't you be able to return a bat that is clearly altered. It annoys me when sellers 'get their money and run' :mad:

[brianborsch]

Yeah, what bothers me is the fact that the seller doesn't agree that it has been altered. If I did that to the bat and someone wanted to buy it back, I would let them know that I did that and then see if they still wanted it.

Now granted, the seller did go through some trouble to sell it back as he had plans to get it autographed as a gift to someone (which could still be done at some point for him), but he should have mentioned his alteration before selling it. I wouldn't have bought it, and we would have no problems.

We'll see how it goes.

[frikativ54]

Yeah, what bothers me is the fact that the seller doesn't agree that it has been altered. If I did that to the bat and someone wanted to buy it back, I would let them know that I did that and then see if they still wanted it.

Now granted, the seller did go through some trouble to sell it back as he had plans to get it autographed as a gift to someone (which could still be done at some point for him), but he should have mentioned his alteration before selling it. I wouldn't have bought it, and we would have no problems.

We'll see how it goes.

Good luck!

[halofan]

I would be upset as you are. Seller sounds like a total jerk telling you "Too bad". I agree, do the paypal dispute. Wish you luck and hope it works out for you.

Billy
halofan1527@yahoo.com

[brianborsch]

Hey Gang,

Just to be straight, he didn't literally say "Too bad", but basically he said he felt the tape detracted from the look so he removed it and that the bat having the tape removed is not a big deal. Not big enough to allow a return.

I disagree as I am sure many of you would as well.

[short84]

I am glad it sounds like this will work out for you. After I spoke to a person at paypal and explained everything to them, they were very reasonable.

[sox83cubs84]

My own personal take:

If the jersey I have just bought was worn by the seller, his wife, son, etc., as long as no obvious differences were caused by it (broken zipper, missing button, untreatable tobacco or blood stain), I couldn't care less.

If the jersey, however, has a drastic appearance change (added patch that didn't belong, undisclosed restration, tag removed), then I would expect a refund if that change wasn't disclosed to me in the sale. I would consider bat tape (ornamental or player-usage driven) to be in the second category.

Dave Miedema

[brianborsch]

So I filed a Paypal claim like everyone suggested and they contacted the seller and requested documentation from him only. He sent them our email strings around the deal and they decided in his favor?! Even though it is clear that he altered the bat by removing the sticker and he certainly should have mentioned that! If he did I wouldn't have bought it!

This is such BULLCRAP! BTW, the seller's name is Adam Pedersen and I'm not sure he is a forum member on here or not, but he is the guy with all the high priced (over-priced) Mariner stuff (Ackley 2nd HR ball, Bernandez jersey, etc.) His ebay user id is: adamopedersen03

I just don't understand how someone can get away with it. DO NOT BUY FROM THIS SELLER! HE IS DISHONEST AND UNETHICAL!!!!

Paypal is basically saying it ok to alter items and not describe it. Awesome.

[brianborsch]

Here is Adam;s last email to me:

"Brian,

Let me be very clear. I gave Paypal our entire Email correspondence. Paypal is very aware of every detail involved with this case. At no point did you EVER ask for a description of the bat, or any photo's of the bat, or the bats current condition. Therefore "Item not as described" does not apply in any way! More importantly, I hope you realize that your last email is a veiled threat. You are threataning defamation of character. I will be keeping my eye's open for any negative connotation about myself in regards to this case, or otherwise. If I find that you have in any way done this you will be contacted by my attorney immediately and you will have a lawsuit on your hands for Slander and defamation of character. You are walking on very thin ice."

F him and his lawyer talk. He can take that shove it up his you-know-where....

[lakeerie92]

So I filed a Paypal claim like everyone suggested and they contacted the seller and requested documentation from him only. He sent them our email strings around the deal and they decided in his favor?! Even though it is clear that he altered the bat by removing the sticker and he certainly should have mentioned that! If he did I wouldn't have bought it!

This is such BULLCRAP! BTW, the seller's name is Adam Pedersen and I'm not sure he is a forum member on here or not, but he is the guy with all the high priced (over-priced) Mariner stuff (Ackley 2nd HR ball, Bernandez jersey, etc.) His ebay user id is: adamopedersen03

I just don't understand how someone can get away with it. DO NOT BUY FROM THIS SELLER! HE IS DISHONEST AND UNETHICAL!!!!

Paypal is basically saying it ok to alter items and not describe it. Awesome.

That is surprising to me, I sold the last of my cards a while back and the buyer was trying have me refund the shipping because I charged $5 and the postage came out to $4.05.(tried to explain boxes,tape, and trips to the post office weren't free) When I refused to refund the money she filed a claim saying the item wasn't as described. I forwarded the emails and PayPal told me the emails weren't able to be used in the investigation because they could have been altered. She ended up winning and mailing card blanks back so she got her money back and kept the cards. I tore into PayPal and they actually gave me the money from the transaction from them.

[Preston]

Amazing...usually PayPal has a habit of really screwing over the seller and protecting the buyer, which I've never understood. But in your instance it was (clearly) reversed...I'd keep pressing with PayPal because that's absurd.

[brianborsch]

BTW, email #2 from the seller:

"I feel wonderful about it Brian, thanks. You got exactly what you asked for. I have absolutely no regrets and will sleep very well knowing justice was served. I am quite pleased that you were not able to get away with a false claim. I warned you that the evidence would speak for itself. You should have taken my overly generous offer before you opened a ridiculous claim that had no validity to it.

Looking forward to having a great life, thanks!"

[b.heagy]

Brian,
I would appeal the case, call paypal and ask to speak to an appeal specialist. be the squeeky wheel.

[Griffey24fan]

Yes you need to call them and rip them a new one. If the person your talking to will not do anything or says they cannot you need to tell them you want their supervisor.

Same thing happened to me last year with a deadbeat seller.