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View Full Version : Jose Reyes Batting Title



maverick14
09-28-2011, 06:23 PM
http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_/id/7031134/batting-title-line-new-york-mets-jose-reyes-pulled-hit

I don't know about you guys but I didn't like this much. I understand winning the game wouldn't matter as far as wild card standings go but I'm of the belief that the "W" is more important than personal stats. I hope Braun goes out there and goes 3-4, at least, and takes the title tonight.

Any opinions out there on a guy pulling himself out of a game to get a batting title?

bdeol4
09-28-2011, 06:36 PM
thats sad

freddiefreeman5
09-28-2011, 07:57 PM
Ted Williams didn't even set out his last game in 1941 even though a bad game would have cost him the shot at hitting .400.
Don't you wish Ted Williams was still alive and hear his opinion of this ball player?

ifirocked
09-28-2011, 08:02 PM
Being a Mets fan i was a bit disappointed myself. Though i am happy to see a batting title finally come to the Mets.

gnishiyama
09-28-2011, 09:08 PM
I'm sure this has happened plenty times before but this doesn't sit well with me.

I'm sure it will never happen but there should be some sort of requirement by
MLB for a player to play the full game of the final game of the seaon if he's
competing for the batting title, unless

1. he's injured or injures himself during the course of the game
2. gets replaced for strategic purposes that comply with some sort
of rules MLB sets. (i.e. pinch runner, pinch hitter allowed if game is within 3 runs)

Even being a Yankee fan, as a baseball fan I was paying particular
attention because of Kemp's potential Triple Crown run and to me,
Reyes title came "cheap" and sort of takes away from his otherwise
spectacular, albeit injury-shortened season.

As someone else said I would love to of heard what Ted Williams
would say about this.

gingi79
09-28-2011, 09:10 PM
The batting title only raises his asking price. Considering how hard it will be to re-sign him anyway you have to wonder what kind of sense this makes?

Fans seem really scorned by this move and find it akin to manipulating the rules. Nothing wrong with it of course just leaves a sour taste.

Perfect example of a contract year season though. He's suddenly the player his potential says he was. Excuse my cynicism if I see a bloated overpayed contract and .240 10 hr 55 rbi injury plagued next 2 seasons......

Manram
09-28-2011, 11:32 PM
Ted Williams didn't even set out his last game in 1941 even though a bad game would have cost him the shot at hitting .400.
Don't you wish Ted Williams was still alive and hear his opinion of this ball player?

Were my exact thoughts!!!

OaklandAsFan
09-28-2011, 11:56 PM
The batting title only raises his asking price. Considering how hard it will be to re-sign him anyway you have to wonder what kind of sense this makes?

Fans seem really scorned by this move and find it akin to manipulating the rules. Nothing wrong with it of course just leaves a sour taste.

Perfect example of a contract year season though. He's suddenly the player his potential says he was. Excuse my cynicism if I see a bloated overpayed contract and .240 10 hr 55 rbi injury plagued next 2 seasons......


Nothing that doesn't happen year in and year out with these guys. Majority of them dog it until their contract year and then blow up.

TNTtoys
09-29-2011, 11:21 AM
Let me play devil's advocate here... Should Reyes had gone 1 for 4 in the game yesterday (which wasn't a stretch of the imagination given Volquez was on the mound for most of it) and had fallen percentage points behind Braun before the Brewers even took the field later the same day, what would Braun have done???

brewcrew
09-29-2011, 12:32 PM
Let me play devil's advocate here... Should Reyes had gone 1 for 4 in the game yesterday (which wasn't a stretch of the imagination given Volquez was on the mound for most of it) and had fallen percentage points behind Braun before the Brewers even took the field later the same day, what would Braun have done???

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Braun would have played the entire game unless Roenicke took him out. And that probably would have been against his will. ;)

Doodles
09-29-2011, 12:45 PM
Let me play devil's advocate here... Should Reyes had gone 1 for 4 in the game yesterday (which wasn't a stretch of the imagination given Volquez was on the mound for most of it) and had fallen percentage points behind Braun before the Brewers even took the field later the same day, what would Braun have done???

Good question...Braun actually had two possible outs...first, it was the High Jewish Holiday and he is Jewish. He could have played that card...also he could have said he was resting for the playoffs.

Reyes could have also screwed himself by sitting out...Braun could still have beaten him with a 3 for 4. The proper thing would have been to try to go 3 for 3 and lock Braun out. Plus, half of that pathetic crowd only came to see Reyes. He really screwed the fans.

There is some luck to a batting title also...for example, Reyes' .337 would only be high enough to win 4 out of the last 20 NL batting titles. I guess the whole thing, being such an individual accomplishment, can be out of sync with a team sport.

freddiefreeman5
09-29-2011, 01:25 PM
Reyes took the bush league way to a batting title.

It's a little unfair to Bruan to assume he would have done the same thing.

Titans74
09-29-2011, 01:42 PM
Reyes took the bush league way to a batting title.

It's a little unfair to Braun to assume he would have done the same thing.

I agree 100%. And I'm a Mets fan.

slab0meat
09-29-2011, 03:28 PM
VERY weak.

metsbats
09-29-2011, 04:17 PM
As Goh alluded to this would n't have been the first time : Ty Cobb in 1910, Wade Boggs in 1984, Bill Mueller in 2003 to list a few. Ironically Ted Williams was alive during the years that both Red Sox players were accused.

What Reyes did was get his hit and leave the game verses just not playing the game at all which would have been less selfish. What he did was blatantly selfish.

I think what bothers me more is the fact that game may have been his last as a Met and if he's does not return in 2012 he becomes one of the biggest bums in Mets history despite all good years and records he broke as a player with the team.

He said he won the title for the team and for the fans. Sorry Jose you won it to increase your asking price when you become a free agent after the WS.

Vintagedeputy
09-29-2011, 04:47 PM
Reyes took the bush league way to a batting title.

.


Agreed. What a candyass.

towne63
09-29-2011, 04:51 PM
also a big Mets fan and yesterday was a joke.....1st inning exit!!...Reyes is all about Reyes. Hopefully management is not gonna commit years/$$ to this hamstring waiting to pop

Doodles
09-30-2011, 08:13 AM
also a big Mets fan and yesterday was a joke.....1st inning exit!!...Reyes is all about Reyes. Hopefully management is not gonna commit years/$$ to this hamstring waiting to pop

The Mets are already top heavy in salary...7th highest payroll, but 22nd in median salary (http://content.usatoday.com/sportsdata/baseball/mlb/salaries/team)...for those who don't remember 8th grade math class, that means they have a few really high salaries and a large amount of middle and low end salaries. In fact, the Mets paid $41 Million this year to Johan Santana, Oliver Perez, Luis Castillo and Bobby Bonilla (http://nymag.com/daily/sports/2011/07/those_bobby_bonilla_deferred_p.html)(yes, his deferred salary is starting for the next 25 years). That is equal to the entire salary of the playoff bound Rays for ZERO production. Signing Reyes will make the problem worse.

G1X
09-30-2011, 09:43 AM
I fondly remember the 1976 season when one of my favorite hitters of that era, Bill Madlock, entered the final day of the season needing a miracle to repeat as the NL batting champion. Ken Griffey, Sr. was leading the NL with a .338 mark while Madlock was hitting at a .333 clip.

Cincinnati had long ago won the NL West (yes, both the Braves and Reds were in the NL West in those days), so Sparky Anderson sat Griffey for the upcoming playoffs as the finale against the Atlanta Braves was meaningless to the Reds. I will not go on record accusing the Reds of sitting Griffey to help protect his chances to win the batting title, but those of us sitting in front of the radio that sunny afternoon listening to the Braves broadcast of the game were convinced that this was the case.

The Cubs were hosting Montreal that day and their game was briskly paced lasting just under two hours. Madlock was perfect at the plate going 4-for-4 (four singles) which raised his final average to .339 and put him in the lead by a mere .001 over Griffey.

Word got back to Cincinnati and Anderson quickly called on Griffey to pinch hit for no other reason than to try to get a hit to take back the crown. There was no other reason for Griffey to come to the plate as the Reds were safely ahead of the Braves in a meaningless game.

Griffey failed, and I can remember my friends and me cheering as we felt that justice was being served. However, it wasn't quiet over as Griffey remained in the game and ended up getting one more shot as the Reds batted around in the 8th inning. Once again, Griffey was unable to smack a base hit which assured Madlock of the batting title.

On that day, I realized that the baseball gods do indeed exist!

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

Always looking for World Football League and Atlanta Falcons jerseys, and Willie McGee and Darren Lewis game-used equipment.

TNTtoys
09-30-2011, 10:29 AM
What Reyes did was get his hit and leave the game verses just not playing the game at all which would have been less selfish. What he did was blatantly selfish.

We're all assuming selfishness on the part of Jose, but did anyone think something like this may have happened... The Mets have zero batting titles in the history of the franchise. THEY pulled him once it was deemed safe and secure and that it in no way was Jose's decision. As their likelihood to resign Jose is growing dimmer and dimmer, they get a consolation prize in the end.

sox83cubs84
09-30-2011, 12:14 PM
I fondly remember the 1976 season when one of my favorite hitters of that era, Bill Madlock, entered the final day of the season needing a miracle to repeat as the NL batting champion. Ken Griffey, Sr. was leading the NL with a .338 mark while Madlock was hitting at a .333 clip.

Cincinnati had long ago won the NL West (yes, both the Braves and Reds were in the NL West in those days), so Sparky Anderson sat Griffey for the upcoming playoffs as the finale against the Atlanta Braves was meaningless to the Reds. I will not go on record accusing the Reds of sitting Griffey to help protect his chances to win the batting title, but those of us sitting in front of the radio that sunny afternoon listening to the Braves broadcast of the game were convinced that this was the case.

The Cubs were hosting Montreal that day and their game was briskly paced lasting just under two hours. Madlock was perfect at the plate going 4-for-4 (four singles) which raised his final average to .339 and put him in the lead by a mere .001 over Griffey.

Word got back to Cincinnati and Anderson quickly called on Griffey to pinch hit for no other reason than to try to get a hit to take back the crown. There was no other reason for Griffey to come to the plate as the Reds were safely ahead of the Braves in a meaningless game.

Griffey failed, and I can remember my friends and me cheering as we felt that justice was being served. However, it wasn't quiet over as Griffey remained in the game and ended up getting one more shot as the Reds batted around in the 8th inning. Once again, Griffey was unable to smack a base hit which assured Madlock of the batting title.

On that day, I realized that the baseball gods do indeed exist!

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

Always looking for World Football League and Atlanta Falcons jerseys, and Willie McGee and Darren Lewis game-used equipment.

I recall that, as well, Mark. I was at the Cubs/Expos game that day.

Dave Miedema

metsbats
09-30-2011, 01:24 PM
We're all assuming selfishness on the part of Jose, but did anyone think something like this may have happened... The Mets have zero batting titles in the history of the franchise. THEY pulled him once it was deemed safe and secure and that it in no way was Jose's decision. As their likelihood to resign Jose is growing dimmer and dimmer, they get a consolation prize in the end.

It was reported that Reyes asked Collins if he can be removed from the game if he got a hit on his first AB. I think Collins even stated this at his post game press conference.

TNTtoys
09-30-2011, 01:42 PM
It was reported that Reyes asked Collins if he can be removed from the game if he got a hit on his first AB. I think Collins even stated this at his post game press conference.

I missed the press conference... I was at Citi Field watching other Mets not named Reyes play a fantastic final game of the season.

Hey...speaking of the press conference... How much attention was given to Miguel Batista who pitched an unbelievable 2-hit shutout? I bet the Reyes thing grabbed most of the attention, sadly...

MSpecht
09-30-2011, 04:15 PM
My guess is that Teddy Ballgame would have said something along these lines http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdJlHnlaNT4

WARNING: Unedited adult content

Mike jackitout7@aol.com

legaleagle92481
10-01-2011, 01:33 AM
I don't think he did anything wrong. Alot of stars dont play much in last game if its meaningless. I am all for play to the end but he is a free agent and even staying in to run the bases and come out in top of next inning like some in the media have suggested risked injury. The guy has hamstring problems. Look at what happened to Brees in his last game as a Charger he stayed in game was meaningless he busted his shoulder probably cost him some money on the market. Plus the batting title is huge to use in his free agency negotiations. a batting title is a good feather to have in one's cap. Plus the Brew Crew played later that day so Braun knew what he needed to do to pass Reyes and if Reyes played the whole game and went one for five and had his average fall who is to say that if Braun passed him before his game was over that he would not have wanted to been pulled?

freddiefreeman5
10-01-2011, 09:29 PM
.... who is to say that if Braun passed him before his game was over that he would not have wanted to been pulled?
Like I said before, its a bit unfair to asume what Braun might do when we know what Reyes did.
Reyes showed no class in what he did. To assume Braun would show just as little class is wrong.
We KNOW what and why Reyes did what he did.
We DON'T KNOW what Braun would do in the same situation.

To use an assumption, a hypothetical one made up in your own mind, of what Braun might do as an excuse for what Reyes did is not the best argument in my opinion. And I am suprised to read that argument at least 3 times. :confused:

Doodles
10-02-2011, 08:45 AM
Like I said before, its a bit unfair to asume what Braun might do when we know what Reyes did.
Reyes showed no class in what he did. To assume Braun would show just as little class is wrong.
We KNOW what and why Reyes did what he did.
We DON'T KNOW what Braun would do in the same situation.

To use an assumption, a hypothetical one made up in your own mind, of what Braun might do as an excuse for what Reyes did is not the best argument in my opinion. And I am suprised to read that argument at least 3 times. :confused:

This is the said part of this whole debate...many in this country see no problem with what Reyes did...even though holding it up to standards of the past, ie. Ted Williams, it falls so far short of expectations.

Ted must be unfreezing in his grave.

coxfan
10-02-2011, 09:04 AM
The question of going for individual titles, versus helping your team win games, is much larger than just sitting out games for batting titles. I'm old enough to remember the race between Maris and Mantle to break Ruth's HR record in 1961. Near the end of the season, Manager Ralph Houk was asked if he would consider moving Mantle or Maris up in the batting order to give them more chances to hit HR's. He replied that he was sure they'd rather break the record the legitimate way, by batting in their usual spots to help the team, or not break it at all. Of course, the Yankees were actually in a real pennant race with the Tigers.

How many times has a Manager left a pitcher in though he sees he's tiring, just to keep his shot at a no-hitter? Only when the guy nearly blows the game by giving up a big hit, does the reliever come in.

I prefer the idea that individual records should come only as a natural part of helping the team win that game. But I went through many losing Braves' seasons in the "BC" ( before Cox) era. And I recall that Braves' fans focused on individual achievments as a relief from the team's failures to win.

When I saw the Mets' Manager get choked up after the game, I think I sensed what was really going on: The Mets had had a disappointing year, and to get the club's first-ever batting title was emotional compensation.

gnishiyama
10-02-2011, 11:11 AM
When I saw the Mets' Manager get choked up after the game, I think I sensed what was really going on: The Mets had had a disappointing year, and to get the club's first-ever batting title was emotional compensation.That's deep. My heart is heavy for Terry Collins and the Mets.

Titans74
10-02-2011, 11:17 AM
The question of going for individual titles, versus helping your team win games, is much larger than just sitting out games for batting titles. I'm old enough to remember the race between Maris and Mantle to break Ruth's HR record in 1961. Near the end of the season, Manager Ralph Houk was asked if he would consider moving Mantle or Maris up in the batting order to give them more chances to hit HR's. He replied that he was sure they'd rather break the record the legitimate way, by batting in their usual spots to help the team, or not break it at all. Of course, the Yankees were actually in a real pennant race with the Tigers.

How many times has a Manager left a pitcher in though he sees he's tiring, just to keep his shot at a no-hitter? Only when the guy nearly blows the game by giving up a big hit, does the reliever come in.

I prefer the idea that individual records should come only as a natural part of helping the team win that game. But I went through many losing Braves' seasons in the "BC" ( before Cox) era. And I recall that Braves' fans focused on individual achievments as a relief from the team's failures to win.

When I saw the Mets' Manager get choked up after the game, I think I sensed what was really going on: The Mets had had a disappointing year, and to get the club's first-ever batting title was emotional compensation.

Best post in this thread. Thank you for your insight. As a fan, I agree 100%. Reyes staying or coming out had no affect on the Mets dismal season. But, the first Met EVER to win a batting title? In this particular scenerio I was happy to see it, just the way it happened. Had the Mets been in a tight race and he pulled himself out then I could understand and agree with the bashing.

godwulf
10-02-2011, 11:34 AM
Reyes pulling himself out like that was more than Bush League; it disrespected The Game, the fans, and his team.

On a much smaller scale than a batting title, but still noteworthy, I remember a couple of years ago when Conor Jackson of the Diamondbacks needed only a double to have hit for the cycle in a game - something a lot of good, even great, players never accomplish. In the late innings of a close game, Jackson made it to Second, and then stretched it into a triple without even slowing down. It was a close play at Third, and, because of that, few people would have blamed him for stopping at Second...but that isn't the kind of chickenshit move a real ballplayer makes. He contributes all he has until he has nothing left.

legaleagle92481
10-02-2011, 11:37 AM
Like I said before, its a bit unfair to asume what Braun might do when we know what Reyes did.
Reyes showed no class in what he did. To assume Braun would show just as little class is wrong.
We KNOW what and why Reyes did what he did.
We DON'T KNOW what Braun would do in the same situation.

To use an assumption, a hypothetical one made up in your own mind, of what Braun might do as an excuse for what Reyes did is not the best argument in my opinion. And I am suprised to read that argument at least 3 times. :confused:

Its every man for himself. He has no obligation to Braun to have stayed in. Braun could have gotten three or four more hits during the year and he would not have had to worry about what Reyes did. He didn't he lost too bad for him. I have more of a problem with how the Yankess threw the last game of the year to keep the Red Sox out of the playoffs. Instead of getting one of their starters some work with many days until they would pitch in the playoffs they pitched a rookie callup who had never started a major league game for a whooping two innings and then inserted relievers who were either callups or guys who have about as much chance of pitching in the postseason as I do. They pitched Proctor for three innings at the end. They either rested or pulled all of their starters well before the end of the game. As a result of their actions the Rays got an easy W and ended up in the postseason instead of a winner take all playoff game with the Sox.

gnishiyama
10-02-2011, 02:23 PM
I have more of a problem with how the Yankess threw the last game of the year to keep the Red Sox out of the playoffs. Instead of getting one of their starters some work with many days until they would pitch in the playoffs they pitched a rookie callup who had never started a major league game for a whooping two innings and then inserted relievers who were either callups or guys who have about as much chance of pitching in the postseason as I do. They pitched Proctor for three innings at the end. They either rested or pulled all of their starters well before the end of the game. As a result of their actions the Rays got an easy W and ended up in the postseason instead of a winner take all playoff game with the Sox.Talk about a completely baseless statement.

What's wrong with resting your starters for a meaningless game on the ROAD
with the playoffs only TWO days away? You must have only looked at the
final score since it was hardly an easy W for the Rays.

freddiefreeman5
10-02-2011, 04:37 PM
[quote=legaleagle92481;269057]Its every man for himself. He has no obligation to Braun to have stayed in. quote]

I have no idea what that sentence has to do with what I wrote but since you throwed it out there I will be glad to respond. ;)

Reyes has no obligation to Bruan at all.

Reyes does have an obligation to the fans, the sport, the legends that came before him, and the integrity of the game of baseball to not use bush league tactics to win a batting title.

Titans74
10-02-2011, 09:26 PM
Talk about a completely baseless statement.

What's wrong with resting your starters for a meaningless game on the ROAD
with the playoffs only TWO days away? You must have only looked at the
final score since it was hardly an easy W for the Rays.


Baseless?


Everyone and their blind grandmother knows that up 7-0 in the bottom of the 8th, the Yankees LET TB win to ensure the Redsox were out of the playoffs. Talk about bush league.

Vintagedeputy
10-03-2011, 01:34 AM
Baseless?


Everyone and their blind grandmother knows that up 7-0 in the bottom of the 8th, the Yankees LET TB win to ensure the Redsox were out of the playoffs. Talk about bush league.

That is absolutely ridiculous.

The Yankees would have much rather faced a "crashing and burning" team like the Red Sox than a hot team like the Rays. Nevermind the fact that the Red Sox had their own destiny in their hands, no matter what the Yankees loss might have given them. They could have won against the O's and forced game #163.

brewcrew
10-03-2011, 08:34 AM
Maybe I'm off-base here, but i assumed Titans was being sarcastic.

commando
10-03-2011, 09:35 AM
The shenanigans pulled by Reyes, if you even want to call it that, are nothing compared to the tons of stunts that have been pulled over the years in MLB. I would highly recommend reading the "Baseball Hall of Shame" books released in the 1980s. You'll laugh your ass off and won't believe half the things that are in there.

legaleagle92481
10-03-2011, 09:35 AM
Talk about a completely baseless statement.

What's wrong with resting your starters for a meaningless game on the ROAD
with the playoffs only TWO days away? You must have only looked at the
final score since it was hardly an easy W for the Rays.

My statement was intended as sarcastic and the point I was trying to make did not come out. My intended point was people are killing Reyes for pulling himself from a game that had absolutely no meaning for either team involved on the final day of the season. Besides the batting title the guy, (who has a long history of leg injuries including two dl stints in the last two or three months alone) would be risking tens of millions of dollars if he got reinjured in the field or during his three or four more meaningless at bats. Alot of players sit out entire games at the end of the year. The Yankees on the other hand were playing in a game that in part decided the AL Wild Card. The game was fraught with meaning for the other team and the Sox. Under the logic of some of these posters "to respect the integrity of the game" the Yankees should have played their starters the whole game, had their best relievers (Robertson, Soriano and MO) out there and started a pitcher with major league experience such as Phil Hughes. Of course it would be patently absurd to risk an injury or tiring pitchers out in a game that means nothing for your team with two days until the playoffs but no more absurd than risking tens of millions of dollars by playing a full game that meant nothing to noone like people advocate Reyes should have done. So in my opinion if the integrity of the game folks want to kill someone kill the Yankees as well. Instead and this is so frustrating as a Mets fan everyone always just wants to kill the Mets and their players. We have no mvps, no no hitters, maybe five great seasons in almost 50 years of existence and until the other day no batting titles. This meant so much to Mets fans like me to finally see this. We have had so much heartache. In another miserable season this was a bit of a silver lining and the last New York memory of a great player who will most likely be wearing a different uniform next year.

TNTtoys
10-04-2011, 01:14 PM
The Yankees would have much rather faced a "crashing and burning" team like the Red Sox than a hot team like the Rays.

You do need to make it out of the first round of the playoffs to even be able to face the other playoff team from your division, no matter who it is ;)

Seriously, with a payroll of $209 million, could they possibly have a worse overall pitching staff???

sox83cubs84
10-04-2011, 01:28 PM
I'm surprised that nobody's mentioned the stunt John Kruk pulled in 1995 with the White Sox. He cracked a single, ran to first, and was immediately replaced by a pinch runner. He immediately retired, thereby ensuring that he would retire with a .300 career average

Dave Miedema

TNTtoys
10-04-2011, 01:30 PM
Alot of players sit out entire games at the end of the year.

Very good point. You all know I am a die-hard Mets fan, but the fact that I play fantasy baseball allows me to keep close watch of other teams...

A curious case is Paul Konerko of the White Sox. Given the fact that so many things went wrong for the team this year (i.e. Adam Dunn, Ozzie Guillen's departure, etc.), Paulie remained the most consistent bright spot. Without distraction, he continued to put up his usual 30 HRs, 100 RBIs and .300 BA.

Very oddly, he wrapped up the last weekend series of the season hitting .300 on the nose. With 3 games to go (Mon, Tues, Wed), and at home nonetheless, Konerko sat out every game, despite being healthy.

As Justin mentioned, this type of thing happens all of the time (and in some cases like the one above, to a bigger degree). What I see is that it often goes unnoticed. I for one was annoyed that the starting 1st baseman on my fantasy team sat out these final three games, but how did the home fans feel? We're not talking about a player playing part of a single game and then pulling himself out; we're talking about the star of the team sitting out three games in a row...

Titans74
10-04-2011, 01:50 PM
I'm surprised that nobody's mentioned the stunt John Kruk pulled in 1995 with the White Sox. He cracked a single, ran to first, and was immediately replaced by a pinch runner. He immediately retired, thereby ensuring that he would retire with a .300 career average

Dave Miedema

It's probably not been mentioned because not many people these days truly have detailed knowledge of the sport. They only know what ESPN tells them per segment.

apfriz
10-08-2011, 10:43 AM
Maybe Im an idiot but I dont see the connection between Kruk and the topic at hand...(Reyes pulling himself for enhanced chance of clinching title)

Did Kruk brake some crazy record??? Was he the first person to retire with a .300 average ?? Hardly....

Did he do it late in the season with his team in a pennant race?
hardly.....

Kruk was good gritty player who played the game hard, that showed great adversity returning from testicular cancer, and has given much back to the fans and the game...

Did Kruk disrespect the game ? please
The fans? doubtfull, almost everyone loves the krukker and many mention this moment as one of the things they LIKED about him !

My opinion of Reyes is like most on the thread, this is one of the cheapest watered down batting titles ive seen....126 games? and then has the stones to take himself out of the last one??? comical
It would have been much easier to watch / accept if Reyes grinded out the schedule with 158 games played 700 abs and pulled this stunt...at least he would have legitimately earned it....what he did is simply garbage
in my mind...

and the rationale that its the first mets batting title??? really?
is THAT how you want it? Michael Strahan style?

legaleagle92481
10-08-2011, 11:07 AM
Maybe Im an idiot but I dont see the connection between Kruk and the topic at hand...(Reyes pulling himself for enhanced chance of clinching title)

Did Kruk brake some crazy record??? Was he the first person to retire with a .300 average ?? Hardly....

Did he do it late in the season with his team in a pennant race?
hardly.....

Kruk was good gritty player who played the game hard, that showed great adversity returning from testicular cancer, and has given much back to the fans and the game...

Did Kruk disrespect the game ? please
The fans? doubtfull, almost everyone loves the krukker and many mention this moment as one of the things they LIKED about him !

My opinion of Reyes is like most on the thread, this is one of the cheapest watered down batting titles ive seen....126 games? and then has the stones to take himself out of the last one??? comical
It would have been much easier to watch / accept if Reyes grinded out the schedule with 158 games played 700 abs and pulled this stunt...at least he would have legitimately earned it....what he did is simply garbage
in my mind...

and the rationale that its the first mets batting title??? really?
is THAT how you want it? Michael Strahan style?

If Reyes batting title is watered down, what do you think of Joe Mauer's batting tittles? Joe played 140, 146 and 138 games in batting title seasons. He had 181, 176 and 191 hits respectively. Reyes had 181 hits and more at bats than Mauer had in any of his three batting title years. Yes, he is a catcher but shortstop is no picnic defensively either and after catcher is probably the most taxing defensive position. Nomar won two batting titles and played 135 and 140 games those years. Josh Hamilton played 133 games last year and won. Chipper Jones played 128 games when he won his with a whopping 160 hits.

sox83cubs84
10-08-2011, 10:01 PM
Maybe Im an idiot but I dont see the connection between Kruk and the topic at hand...(Reyes pulling himself for enhanced chance of clinching title)

Did Kruk brake some crazy record??? Was he the first person to retire with a .300 average ?? Hardly....

Did he do it late in the season with his team in a pennant race?
hardly.....

Kruk was good gritty player who played the game hard, that showed great adversity returning from testicular cancer, and has given much back to the fans and the game...

Did Kruk disrespect the game ? please
The fans? doubtfull, almost everyone loves the krukker and many mention this moment as one of the things they LIKED about him !

My opinion of Reyes is like most on the thread, this is one of the cheapest watered down batting titles ive seen....126 games? and then has the stones to take himself out of the last one??? comical
It would have been much easier to watch / accept if Reyes grinded out the schedule with 158 games played 700 abs and pulled this stunt...at least he would have legitimately earned it....what he did is simply garbage
in my mind...

and the rationale that its the first mets batting title??? really?
is THAT how you want it? Michael Strahan style?


Hey, I like the Krukker too, but this wasn't just "retiring with a .300 BA". It was knowing you had a career .300 BA, intentionaly removing yourself from the game, and retiring before the game was over in order to be credited with a desirable personal career statistic. I also wonder if the Sox would have fared any better in '95 with a full season out of Kruk instead of losing him in midseason by his own choice in order to look better in the Baseball Encyclopedia?

Most of Kruk's carrer and post-career moves have been fine with me (I really enjoyed him on The Best Damn Sports Show, Period in the late 1990s). But, on this call, he really blew it.

Dave Miedema

apfriz
10-12-2011, 08:52 PM
Hey Dave, I understand to a degree what you are saying, but maybe I dont think what he did compares to Reyes??

I think you and I can come up with many many examples of players who 'stuck around' to get a milestone.....300 wins, 4 - 500 hr, I dont think what kruk did was any different than that...

It seemed like Glavine stuck around FOREVER to get 300 wins....

I guess in the end what I see differently in Kruk's case is that he didnt take up a roster spot to hang around for a milestone, or do what reyes did to put his name in the books....

Perhaps we just dont see eye to eye on this one which is fine too, that is what makes baseball great ! the debate and discussion over different situations and how they are handled...greatest game out there...

.....still cant stand reyes though......lol

apfriz
10-12-2011, 09:03 PM
Eagle,

I wasnt so much debating that he won while only playing 126 games...
(hamilton won the title by close to 30pts! and he was hurt in sept, he didnt pull himself to enhance his chances)
I am aware that players have won over the years playing fewer games

My beef with him is that he ONLY played 126 games AND pulled himself OUT ON TOP OF THAT....

I will lay my cards out and admit I hate Reyes, so perhaps my opinion is skewed, he has so much talent that he wastes....he's hot dogging, he is constantly hurt, probably too lazy to stretch, but again, i might be unfair as i dont care for him much...

Being said, I stand my opinion of what he did as bush-league...