Game Used vs. Game Issued Jerseys

[sylbry]

Question

If a jersey was worn by a player who never left the bench would that jersey be considered game worn?

[allstarsplus]

MLB has stated that worn on the bench or BP would be considered Game Used.

Best to do your homework when specific dates are given to see if the player actually got into the game.

You see this all the time with regards to TBTC jerseys as they are usually worn for 1 or 2 games hence almost half the players in the dugout and bullpen never got into the game.

Andrew

[chakes89]

sure it can.
especially if your Steiner and your trying to sell carl pavano game used stuff from 2006 :D

sorry had to throw that in there

[Swoboda4]

This is an old question that always seemed to end up that "game used"-"game worn" somehow means the same thing. I've always disagreed.And now MLB declares it so with TBTC items,never entering into a game but worn on the bench,as game used/worn. Shouldn't an item used in the game be worth more? Well,how to describe the difference? Well,I'm not going to revisit the game used vs game worn argument but I will offer the following. That a new term be used to exactly describe where that jersey/item was used and that term is: "IN PLAY" An item can be described as "In Play" when it crossed the lines into a actual game(Not practice,not spring training,etc.) We've come along in this hobby to the point where I believe we need this description. Was the jersey "in play",yes or no, ends the confusion.

By the way-Zimmer's uniform qualifies as being,"In Play"(half-kidding)-
Robert
http://cache.corbis.com/CorbisImage/170/14/59/18/14591885/DWF15-453461.jpg

[steevyniu]

Is there anyway to tell the difference between the two other than wear and tear? FOr example, a 2003 White Sox alternate jersey?

Thanks for your help from this novice!

[Manram]

[QUOTE=steevyniu;185854]Is there anyway to tell the difference between the two other than wear and tear? FOr example, a 2003 White Sox alternate jersey?

Thanks for your help from this novice![/QUOTE

All jerseys are issued to the player with the same tagging. So no, the only way to tell the difference between issued and game used for a jersey is wear and tear

[legaleagle92481]

Here are a few tips. Apparent use means nothing. Anyone can buy a game issued jersey and turn it into a jersey that appears to have been used very easily. Dirt is dirt, grass stains are grass stains, etc. Photomatching can help but it is not foolproof and it is hard to do. For vintage stuff I would stick with stuff that is Mears certified. For modern stuff I would buy stuff from steiner, jo, meigray, and all the league auction sites or the teams themselves only, these companies are beyond reproach. NFL auctions sometimes makes errors as the threads on here will attest but they will correct them if you bring them to their attention. If you are patient stuff from virually every modern player becomes available. Yes it may cost more from these companies but you cannot put a price on piece of mind.

[G1X]

There are other long-time dealers who are just as trustworthy, experienced, and knowledgeable (if not more so) as those mentioned by leagaleagle. Read this forum long enough and you will discover these fine sellers. While you might not get all the fancy paperwork, etc. from some of those sellers, you will find that you don't have to take out a second mortgage to buy from them. Once you are in the hobby and learn more about the nuances of game-used jerseys, you will come to appreciate some of these "other" sellers, especially with regards to your bank account.

On the other hand, if you become dependent on letters, COAs, etc. and never truly learn how to research jerseys, you are doomed to over-spending and never really being able to discern for yourself whether a jersey is the real deal. Don't make the mistake some collectors make by depending on paperwork as it will greatly limit your possibilities not to mention your collection and bank account.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

Always looking for WFL and Atlanta Falcons jerseys, and Willie McGee and Darren Lewis items.

[legaleagle92481]

There are other long-time dealers who are just as trustworthy, experienced, and knowledgeable (if not more so) as those mentioned by leagaleagle. Read this forum long enough and you will discover these fine sellers. While you might not get all the fancy paperwork, etc. from some of those sellers, you will find that you don't have to take out a second mortgage to buy from them. Once you are in the hobby and learn more about the nuances of game-used jerseys, you will come to appreciate some of these "other" sellers, especially with regards to your bank account.

On the other hand, if you become dependent on letters, COAs, etc. and never truly learn how to research jerseys, you are doomed to over-spending and never really being able to discern for yourself whether a jersey is the real deal. Don't make the mistake some collectors make by depending on paperwork as it will greatly limit your possibilities not to mention your collection and bank account.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

Always looking for WFL and Atlanta Falcons jerseys, and Willie McGee and Darren Lewis items.

It is hard though to discern what is real and what is not and speaking for myself I just do not have the time to learn. And personally I would rather spend a little more and be absolutely sure it is real than buy something that later turns out to be phony and have just wasted that money. I collect pretty much only star players so maybe my perspective is a little bit different than others and to be fair if you are looking for common, slightly above average players and veteran guys who maybe made a couple of allstar game appearances at some point than yes there are reputable dealers out there like yourself who it is much more economical to buy from. I think spending the money the companies I mentioned charge for common, above average or veteran one-two time allstars is not a great investment at all and is unnecessary what I was talking about are the "star" players who the market is filled with bad stuff of and I should have qualified my advice with that.

[steevyniu]

Thanks for the advice guys.

That is what I thought, but it is great to get some reassurance from experienced collectors.

Basically, I found a deal on a GU jersey froma favorite player. All the tagging matches but the price seems a bit too good and the actual jersey condition looks brand new.

[legaleagle92481]

Thanks for the advice guys.

That is what I thought, but it is great to get some reassurance from experienced collectors.

Basically, I found a deal on a GU jersey froma favorite player. All the tagging matches but the price seems a bit too good and the actual jersey condition looks brand new.

If you want you can give us the specfics and we can give you more specific advice to that item. If you have pics of it post them even. Everything is a case by case basis. Have you seen it in person?

[steevyniu]

If you want you can give us the specfics and we can give you more specific advice to that item. If you have pics of it post them even. Everything is a case by case basis. Have you seen it in person?


Thanks. Basically, everything matches up well. The lettering, the patches, the majestic tag and sizing, the wash tag. It just looks brand new - thus my guess that it is game issued. The seller claims game used but doesn't go beyond that - says it might have been worn for an inning.

The price and the player is what really makes me second guess it. While I have bought a handful of GU jerseys and always try to do my due diligence, I thought I would bounce this one off of the vets, before moving forward.

I guess even if it is just game issued, it isn't a terrible deal.

[steevyniu]

Here are a few pictures. Not sure how helpful they will be...

http://images.craigslist.org/3nf3m53l15Td5P15R7a23260b08033fc3198f.jpghttp://images.craigslist.org/3ke3me3od5T05Ra5Sca2336f069b2fa0f1646.jpghttp://images.craigslist.org/3na3o03p05Te5P15S7a2357e71bcb25d71602.jpghttp://images.craigslist.org/3n93k23p65T55P55Raa23b07d753beda51a7d.jpg

[legaleagle92481]

Here are a few pictures. Not sure how helpful they will be...

http://images.craigslist.org/3nf3m53l15Td5P15R7a23260b08033fc3198f.jpghttp://images.craigslist.org/3ke3me3od5T05Ra5Sca2336f069b2fa0f1646.jpghttp://images.craigslist.org/3na3o03p05Te5P15S7a2357e71bcb25d71602.jpghttp://images.craigslist.org/3n93k23p65T55P55Raa23b07d753beda51a7d.jpg

How much is the seller charging? There are alot of Thomas experts on here so you are in luck I am sure one of them can help you out.

[both-teams-played-hard]

It is hard though to discern what is real and what is not and speaking for myself I just do not have the time to learn.
This is what shady dealers are hoping for. This is also why shady dealers and shady auction houses hate this forum.

[Ozric]

Shouldn't there be a set number in place of the jersey number on the tag. I thought that Sox tags with the jersey number in place of the set number were promo jerseys and not game used/issued. Edgar, might be able to help out as White Sox gear is his specialty.

[steevyniu]

Shouldn't there be a set number in place of the jersey number on the tag. I thought that Sox tags with the jersey number in place of the set number were promo jerseys and not game used/issued. Edgar, might be able to help out as White Sox gear is his specialty.


I don't think there was a set number on the tags in 2003

[steevyniu]

Anybody see this Thomas jersey.....Looks brand new to me, yet they are claiming game worn. Did 1998 home jerseys have set # tags? This one doesn't.


http://legendaryauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=105696&searchby=3&searchvalue=white sox&page=0&sortby=0&displayby=2&lotsperpage=100&category=1

[sox83cubs84]

Anybody see this Thomas jersey.....Looks brand new to me, yet they are claiming game worn. Did 1998 home jerseys have set # tags? This one doesn't.


http://legendaryauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=105696&searchby=3&searchvalue=white sox&page=0&sortby=0&displayby=2&lotsperpage=100&category=1

It's a Sox team-issued jersey, but the year-only strip tag indicates an extra jersey, as normal 1998 Russell White Sox tag is more detailed. It also could be a size 50 team-issued blank that someone turned into a Thomas. While possible, IMHO, it's not ironclad enouh to warrant a normal Thomas price.

Dave M.
Chicago area

[TNTtoys]

Here are a few tips. Apparent use means nothing. Anyone can buy a game issued jersey and turn it into a jersey that appears to have been used very easily. Dirt is dirt, grass stains are grass stains, etc.

I have come across a situation recently which involves a jersey that shows a decent amount of use but the seller admitted to having "worn the jersey and laundered it." The question it brings to mind is how does one know that the apparent use that he sees on a game used jersey is in fact game use and not "collector use"?

[steevyniu]

I have come across a situation recently which involves a jersey that shows a decent amount of use but the seller admitted to having "worn the jersey and laundered it." The question it brings to mind is how does one know that the apparent use that he sees on a game used jersey is in fact game use and not "collector use"?

Good question.

I don't think you can ever really tell 100%. First factors are correct tagging, lettering, etc. If all that falls into place, then wear and tear should be a pretty decent sign that the game use is genuine.

Of course, as a rookie in this great GU hobby, that's just my opinion. Advice from the pros is appreciated.

[Number13]

I know the definition of both, but my question is..........

I am collecting to just collect. I am not looking to try and make money off of my collection. I am in this for the fun of it, and that's all. So for me would it make that much of a difference if I had game issued vs. game used jerseys? My gut opinion would be that, for me, either one is ok. I just would like other opinions to help guide me since I am still a newbie.

Thanks

[beaglegypsy003]

Since my collection centers on University of Hawaii players, most of my jerseys are considered commons and for the most part won't make me any money. I try to get game used jerseys first but would buy game issued if the price is right. I also buy practice used jerseys. The main thing, I collect what I enjoy.

[icollectDCsports]

The question is whether it's important to you to know that your jerseys were worn by the players on the field, court, ice, etc. For game used collectors, that is the key, and there is something very special knowing that these exact jerseys and other equipment were the very items that were on field and a part of the game. That's why photo matches are so cool and why many of us like to see lots of evidence of wear (particularly hockey jersey collectors, who like their jerseys to be "hammered" with use).

Of course, some folks would be just has happy owning jerseys that are just like the ones worn by the players, but which were never actually worn in games. If that's all your collecting interest requires, then by all means save some money and buy those because they'll usually be much cheaper.

Bottom line is that each collector has their own particular collecting preferences. Collect whatever appeals to you.

[mad87man]

I personally like unwashed game used NFL stuff. The hit marks,mud,repairs,grass stains all make it unique and different.It also tells a little story about the game or the player that game. I have a Justin Miller Raiders that is pretty covered in mud, now i am the biggest Jets fan but that jersey is one of my favorite b/c of all the mud.

Game issued is something but not for but everyone. The only difference in them as you know is that it wasn't on the field. This could be good for a rare jersey per say a pro bowl or super bowl jersey if it issued over game worn b/c they will be cheaper.

At the end of the day collect what you like and only what you like. Most of the collections won't be worth half of what you paid for it anyway(not many things are), so buy for yourself and if you see a game worn you like more then an issued but for a bit more money, go for it.

[Shipp_96]

As many have touched on this post already, the main difference is price. But sometimes that price is minor. For an "average" NFL player, you may only pay $25-50 less for an issued jersey than a worn one. But if you collect that player (or in my case a University), it is well worth it.

Bigger name players are one way to go for the issued jersey, as say you may not want to shell out 12k for Ichiro, but might pay 3k for his issued jersey (I would not personally, but for instance...).

Also, game worn can carry a much deeper significance depending on how and when that player wore those jerseys, cleats, helmet, etc.

I think for framing and potentially getting them signed, game issued is the way to go. But if you are into the torn, grass stained, mud, stink and rips then game worn is for you.

[Dolphins23]

whats the difference between, game used, player issued vs team issued

Is team issued not specific final cut to jersey for player

and game issued is the players exact cuts to jersey, just he never wore it.

and game used is worn in game or on sideline during a game


I ask because I just bought a Game Issued Pennington jersey from 09 season when he was listed on IR the whole season, but I'm pretty sure he wore the jersey on the sidelines with no pads on sometimes. So whats this considered?

[masp3392]

whats the difference between, game used, player issued vs team issued

Is team issued not specific final cut to jersey for player

and game issued is the players exact cuts to jersey, just he never wore it.

and game used is worn in game or on sideline during a game


I ask because I just bought a Game Issued Pennington jersey from 09 season when he was listed on IR the whole season, but I'm pretty sure he wore the jersey on the sidelines with no pads on sometimes. So whats this considered?

i would still consider that game worn, he did technically wear it during a game, just didnt play.

[jppopma]

"Team issued" gets bounced around here alot. The best way to think of team issued is being a jersey that was made for the player, but not used for some reason. The reasons can vary greatly; player injured, player gets trade, jersey made up for a minor league player who never gets the call up, or even jerseys in different sizes for the player to chose from. Regarless of the reason, a team issued jersey should have all of the proper tagging, patches, etc.

It get's tricky when you consider that MLB will not authenticate anything as game worn unless they SEE the player in the jersey. So if the authenticator is not there, or the team chooses to have everything authenticated at the end of the season.....then they are all codes as team issued, even though it may have tons of wear.

The next issue is like with the Pennigton...where does it do from game issued to promotional use to bench use? There are strict collectors out there who will deem a one game TBTC jersey as game issued if it is a player (often pitchers) who didn't pitch in the game. Is there really a big difference between a jersey worn for an inning of work and one that was worn by the player, just on the bench?

Next is pricing....in the case of lower end players, there is not going to be much difference because the gamers are so cheap themselves. On the higher end, there is not much difference in price because there is a big enough demand for that player. Somewhere in the middle though, the prices of team issued jerseys can be as much as half of the price.

[solarlottry]

I consider any jersey that was worn in the game, regardless if the player played or not, game used.

Lets say a special teams player is on the field for one play, but they call a time out before the play starts, and then he is taken out of the game and does not return-is that game used? He saw the field but didnt participate in a play. I think if someone is suited up and ready to go then it is game used.

Also from a baseball standpoint, lets say a pitcher comes out of the bullpen and is about to throw a pitch and the batter calls time out. Then the manager comes and makes a pitching change before the pitcher has thrown a pitch. Is that shirt game used? He was on the mound, ready to go but the manager took him out before he could throw a pitch. How is that different from just sitting in the bullpen ready to go?

People may disagree with that and think that a player has to be actively involved in the game for a shirt to be game used. I think that if a player is suited up the shirt is game used. It may not show any use but that is something for the collector to take into account when buying the jersey.

Always buying 49ers gamers and ANY 1994 shirt. Paying up to a 500$ finders fee
Paul
garciajones@yahoo.com

[mad87man]

I consider any jersey that was worn in the game, regardless if the player played or not, game used.

Lets say a special teams player is on the field for one play, but they call a time out before the play starts, and then he is taken out of the game and does not return-is that game used? He saw the field but didnt participate in a play. I think if someone is suited up and ready to go then it is game used.

Also from a baseball standpoint, lets say a pitcher comes out of the bullpen and is about to throw a pitch and the batter calls time out. Then the manager comes and makes a pitching change before the pitcher has thrown a pitch. Is that shirt game used? He was on the mound, ready to go but the manager took him out before he could throw a pitch. How is that different from just sitting in the bullpen ready to go?

People may disagree with that and think that a player has to be actively involved in the game for a shirt to be game used. I think that if a player is suited up the shirt is game used. It may not show any use but that is something for the collector to take into account when buying the jersey.

Always buying 49ers gamers and ANY 1994 shirt. Paying up to a 500$ finders fee
Paul
garciajones@yahoo.com

Yeah i can agree with this as well. He used the item in a game he just wasn't participating in it.

[mlupo]

Personally I do not care for game issued items, I want an item that shows some use. To me, if you are going to buy a team issued jersey, why not just buy a retail authentic? Who knows if that team issued jersey was ever even in the same room as the player.

[slab0meat]

Personally I do not care for game issued items, I want an item that shows some use. To me, if you are going to buy a team issued jersey, why not just buy a retail authentic? Who knows if that team issued jersey was ever even in the same room as the player.


An easy answer is for authentic patches that may not be available for purchase (or to avoid the hassle of buying patches and having them sewn on)....

Or is someone prefers a size 46 or 50 or something..

[gadsden86]

Ok so while getting more into game jerseys. I have see a few Game issued jerseys.
What exactly is a issued jersey vs used.
I know used means they wore it in the game and shows use.
But what exactly is issued? Worn on the sideline? Had extra just incase they needed it? Made but never worn by the player....

[gingi79]

Many a thread has been started, debated and argued on the term Game Issued. I think it is generally accepted that any jersey made to exact specifications for a player and hanging in the players locker with the intentions of being used but somehow never worn = Game Issued.

However when selling a jersey, people tend to use the term for any jersey that isn't "screened on numbers" replica. MeiGray GI falls into the initial catagory. NFL Auctions tends to retard generally accepted language with things like "Issued" "Team Specs" and "Team Issued"

For me, unless it falls into the first description, it's an "Authentic" jersey.

[chd49er]

Game issued means the jersey, pants, helmet, cleats etc. are made to the players specifications and are game ready but have not been used by the player. Basically they would be one of the spares that did not get used.

Clay
cdubois@carolina.rr.com

ALWAYS BUYING 49ER GAMERS!!!

[frikativ54]

Many a thread has been started, debated and argued on the term Game Issued. I think it is generally accepted that any jersey made to exact specifications for a player and hanging in the players locker with the intentions of being used but somehow never worn = Game Issued.

However when selling a jersey, people tend to use the term for any jersey that isn't "screened on numbers" replica. MeiGray GI falls into the initial catagory. NFL Auctions tends to retard generally accepted language with things like "Issued" "Team Specs" and "Team Issued"

For me, unless it falls into the first description, it's an "Authentic" jersey.

If it isn't delivered to the player, then I consider it "game model." Such items don't fetch the same premium as game used or even game issued. Some will try to pass factory extras as game issued, but to me, it's not issued if it never reached the player.

[sox83cubs84]

Another offshhoot that I would call "game-issued": a uniform made for the player's use, but unused due to the player being cut or traded before the season of intended usage began. I once had a John Verhoeven White Sox jersey that was made for him, but never worn as he was let go and picked up by the Twins prior to season's beginning. To me, that would aslo be "game-issued". (FWIW, Verhoeven ended up buying the jersey from me, as he never got to keep ny of his Chisox uniforms).

Dave Miedema

[mad87man]

Game issued means the jersey, pants, helmet, cleats etc. are made to the players specifications and are game ready but have not been used by the player. Basically they would be one of the spares that did not get used.

Clay
cdubois@carolina.rr.com

ALWAYS BUYING 49ER GAMERS!!!
I like to go with this description. Like i know Favre always liked or heard he liked 2 jerseys in his locker and sometimes switched at halftime. If he didn't wear one of them i would say its issued.

[gadsden86]

Good to know guys thanks for the input.