Anybody bidding in Vintage Authentics Auction

[1929tudor]

I see that Vintage Auctions still has there website going since the arrest of there owner Thursday at the National. Do you think it's safe to bid in the auction and send in your money hoping the money doesn't get held up till the out come of his situation. There is a couple things I would like to bid on but not sure if I send in a few hundred dollars if I win I'll ever see it again. What's your thoughts.

[jppopma]

That is a tough call. While I'm sure there is the usual mix of good and bad items up for auction, you do have to wonder about hold ups with the ongoing case.

The question to ask is if the items are being held as evidence or not. Judging that the site was taken down and then allowed to pop back up, I would be inclined to say things are ok. Not sure about the WWW, but we'd close anything and everything down during an investigation.

Your best bet would be to call their 800 number to place a bid. If they answer, it would be a good sign. The online part could easily just be automated.

[yanks12025]

Half the items are gone though.

[eagraham35]

If I saw correctly, all is game used items taken down...a majority were with Lampson LOAs. I took a quick look and didn't see any of his items still on.

[Lokee]

Could Lou Lampson be next to get popped ? You would think the trail would lead back to him.

[MikeSharon]

From looking at the site it looks like everything without rock solid auth. is now "sorry were closed" there are a few game used things left. I think the feds made it clear that if they sold anything that anyone could even question they were in deeper S**t than they already are

[earlywynnfan]

Odd, I was watching a Pudge GU bat that had MLB certification, and it's gone.

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

[eagraham35]

I was watching an item with Grey Flannel paperwork and its gone too. No idea what criteriea they used to pull items. Seems to have been almost anything they could get their hands on. Certainly a strange situation...

[DeacDoug]

Could be the consignor had the option to pull given the present situation.

[DeacDoug]

Both 800 and local number disconnected, perhaps at FBI's directive.

[seven4five20]

I have items consigned with Vintages. Some of which are still up, some of which are no longer available. One of the items, a Pujols bat, had a PSA/DNA GU 9 letter, came from a clubhouse source, and has been taken down. Does anyone have any insight as to how to get these items back?

[harleighb]

I also have items consigned to the latest VA auction. Some of the items have been "withdrawn" while others remain open for bidding. I understand that those items that have been identified as "withdrawn" on VA's website were seized when federal agents executed a search warrant of VA's facilities. There does not seem to be much rhyme or reason to what was seized vs. not seized. I understand that VA will continue to auction off those items that remain in its possession and will process payments in a manner consistent with past practice. I don't know (and I don't think anyone but the attorneys prosecuting the case know) when the seized items will be released to VA or consignors.

[Mark17]

I also have items consigned to the latest VA auction. Some of the items have been "withdrawn" while others remain open for bidding. I understand that those items that have been identified as "withdrawn" on VA's website were seized when federal agents executed a search warrant of VA's facilities. There does not seem to be much rhyme or reason to what was seized vs. not seized. I understand that VA will continue to auction off those items that remain in its possession and will process payments in a manner consistent with past practice. I don't know (and I don't think anyone but the attorneys prosecuting the case know) when the seized items will be released to VA or consignors.

All the Twins jerseys Brian, on this forum, had issues with are pulled. Wonder if the FBI is tapping into this site for help in getting tips from knowledgeable collectors about questionable items.

Just a few days ago I was asking about one of their jerseys (Rigby/Rigney) and now it sounds like the FBI is. Wow.

[harleighb]

One of the jerseys I had seized was a Francisco Liriano jersey with a MLB hologram that was photomatched to three separate games. The jersey was signed by Liriano and inscribed "2009 Game Used". I've got pics of Liriano and I at the signing holding up the jersey together. Tough to imagine someone with much background in this stuff identifying it as problematic.

[sylbry]

All the Twins jerseys Brian, on this forum, had issues with are pulled. Wonder if the FBI is tapping into this site for help in getting tips from knowledgeable collectors about questionable items.

Just a few days ago I was asking about one of their jerseys (Rigby/Rigney) and now it sounds like the FBI is. Wow.

Hi Mark,

Three of the items still remain; the Killebrew hat, the Mauer jersey, and the Puckett jersey. And in my opinion those are the biggest question marks. Why pull the Bruno jersey? My criticism was more tongue in cheek, as they said a 1986 jersey was used in 1985, which would be impossible. But the jersey itself was correct as a 1986. And why pull the Liriano? Isn't the MLB hologram near the gold standard for authentication (other than the certain teams labelling all jerseys as game issued. But that is a different discussion). And the so called team letter on the Puckett and letter on the Mauer is good enough but the hologram on the Liriano is not?

I will say it again:


On the Mauer jersey, show me a single legit Twins LOA without the store manager's signature. And the use on the tag is completely inconsistent. It would be impossible in a game situation to smear the numbers and yet not wrinkle the tag fabric.
On the Killebrew jersey, show me a photomatch.
On the Puckett jersey, show me where the Twins letter mentions any use of that particular jersey. It says the Twins ordered size 44 jerseys. It does not say he wore them. Nor does it say he wore that specific jersey. The letter proves nothing and it is misleading to insinuate that it does.I don't understand the reasoning why the Feds are looking at some items and not the others but that isn't important. Just glad they are looking into the issue.

And while I am rambling, in my opinion this is one of the biggest stories to come along related to game used collectibles but the issue really hasn't garnered much attention on this forum. Nor has the story received much negative criticism here. Other forums related to baseball collectibles have had harsh words for anyone intentionally selling fakes. Not here though.

Is it because many others here would sell off an item they buy that later turns out to be fake. Maybe put a caveat in the listing such as "I bought this as such but can't prove it". Or perhaps no one wants to anger the auction companies because they rely on them to build and dispose of their collections.

More so that any other area of sports memorabilia collecting game used relies on ethics and morals. We are seeing that someone who we thought could be trusted has allegedly engaged in activities that are anything but such and yet this community remains silent. Go figure. Makes you just want to give it up and move on to something else. Because others in the hobby either don't care about its integrity as much as you do so why bother.

[sylbry]

Mark,

By the way, those comments were not directed towards you. Intended to reply to your post that not all of the items I pointed out were pulled and then I just started rambling. Completely forgot I had even addressed you in the beginning.

[brewcrew]

I think the fact that there's a seven page forum on the arrest at the National indicates that a great many people on this board care about the integrity of the hobby.

I probably wouldn't buy anything of significance anymore unless it had a hologram or unless it came from a trusted member of this board.

[sylbry]

I think the fact that there's a seven page forum on the arrest at the National indicates that a great many people on this board care about the integrity of the hobby.

Yes... and so does the show me your Pirates items thread.

[eagraham35]

Paragon Auctions has a lot of items pulled as well and they just went live.

[nickacs]

All I gotta say (for now) is that they better pay the consignors!

[earlywynnfan]

I guess the Feds and lack of working phone and all else didn't keep the bidders away. I got blown out on everything I bid on.

I was also VERY disappointed to find out there was a hidden reserve on the Tony Oliva bat. Personally, I hate when auction houses do that.

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

[seven4five20]

Has anyone who consigned with Vintage for this auction heard from them? I talked to a representative today and basically got nothing out of him except that the feds (wouldnt tell me what branch) have possession of all the items and that they were going to return the items deemed genuine. Returns will apparently happen after they develop a process to determine which items are authentic......what does everyone think? I for one am ticked. I also asked him what about the items that the feds deem "non-authentic". All my items are 100% authentic, I want reimbursement from Vintage if some Star Wars geek at the IRS deems something non-authentic and it gets destroyed.

[nickacs]

WHAT? They better not be returning WINNING bid items?!? I will be so freakin pissed if they do. Then what's the point of continuing the auction if nothing was going to be sold??? The Feds should've just shut the whole operation down and clean house rather than continue with a "fake" auction for no reason and get people's hopes up on getting paid for their items :mad:

[eagraham35]

My understanding all items won means business as usual. If you won an item you will receive it.

A buddy of mine had some items in this auction and got a call letting him know what was happening. Basically what's already been said, somehow the Feds will be "authenticating" items themselves. If they find them genuine by their standard, then the items will be shipped back to the consignor (owner). There is no time table nor was there any mention of how they would deem an item authentic. Basically he was told to sit back and do nothing.

Every item I was watching in the VA auction and the Paragon auction has been pulled. The initial reaction is to assume they were bogus. But some items from both auctions had grey flannel paperwork and one had MLB authentication. So assuming they were bogus is not realistic. The Feds must have just grabbed stuff by the truckload.

[Mark17]

... Basically what's already been said, somehow the Feds will be "authenticating" items themselves. If they find them genuine by their standard, then the items will be shipped back to the consignor (owner). There is no time table nor was there any mention of how they would deem an item authentic. Basically he was told to sit back and do nothing.

Now the question is, who will the Feds get to do authentications? One of the items pulled already had a Lampson LOA. ;)

[DeacDoug]

Even as a relative liberal, I do not believe the feds should be getting into the authentication business. I would rather have them trace the origin of the items deemed dubious. Basically, forging "gamers" is a white collar or perhaps blue collar crime for which enforcement will be lacking and penalties not severe. See Wall Street!

[mmonte4]

I was the high bidder on the 2001 Pats Super Bowl ring. Unfortunately it didn't meet the reserve :(

[Mark17]

Even as a relative liberal, I do not believe the feds should be getting into the authentication business. I would rather have them trace the origin of the items deemed dubious. Basically, forging "gamers" is a white collar or perhaps blue collar crime for which enforcement will be lacking and penalties not severe. See Wall Street!

Sports memorabilia is big-time business, and there's plenty of fakes, forgeries, and criminal activity going on, as there often is with that much money involved. The Feds apparently recognize this and are investigating, as they would any other illegal activity. They have to start somewhere. I always though one of the many things liberals and conservatives agreed on was the need for some government, and that laws and law enforcement was a necessary and just function of government.

Saying it's white or blue collar, or comparing it to something bigger, like Wall Street, is like saying they shouldn't worry about investigating theft, because murder is so much worse.

One of the huge contributions of this forum is that it has exposed probably hundreds of highly questionable items, but us pointing them out isn't going to do anything to protect people who aren't aware of the forum. I'm glad law enforcement is taking the problem seriously. We can call bogus items to each others' attention, but they can actually DO something about it.

[sylbry]

Sports memorabilia is big-time business, and there's plenty of fakes, forgeries, and criminal activity going on, as there often is with that much money involved. The Feds apparently recognize this and are investigating, as they would any other illegal activity. They have to start somewhere. I always though one of the many things liberals and conservatives agreed on was the need for some government, and that laws and law enforcement was a necessary and just function of government.

Saying it's white or blue collar, or comparing it to something bigger, like Wall Street, is like saying they shouldn't worry about investigating theft, because murder is so much worse.

One of the huge contributions of this forum is that it has exposed probably hundreds of highly questionable items, but us pointing them out isn't going to do anything to protect people who aren't aware of the forum. I'm glad law enforcement is taking the problem seriously. We can call bogus items to each others' attention, but they can actually DO something about it.

Well said Mark.

[nickacs]

I received an update today from Steve (a voicemail & email) that my check is in the mail. I may have gotten really lucky as the winner paid the next day after the auction closed last week Friday.

So, I just wanted to let others that might have consigned this is a good sign! :)

[Tallyman77]

Does anyone have any recent news to report on the status of withdrawn auction items from Vintage Authentics......or any other news regarding the ordeal? Thanks! :)

-Walt

Tallyman77

Evergreen7777@att.net

[Scotchorama]

Just wanted to add that I won two items in the auction; communication was smooth and I received one of the two items and a refund check for the other, as its authenticity was in doubt (although marked with holo, etc...). Overall good experience.

[Tallyman77]

Hey guys.......I see where Vintage Authentics has another auction coming up in November, with the consignment deadline being October 28. Does anyone know what happened to all of those consigned items that were removed from the August auction?.......and will any of them be appearing in the upcoming auction?

Thanks,

-Walt

Tallyman77

Evergreen77@att.net