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frikativ54
06-22-2011, 01:08 PM
I want to begin by pointing out that this thread is not directed at anyone in specific. My goal is not to single anyone out, as I've seen this request from several people both on this forum and in private transactions as of late. I was just kind of wondering if others had trouble with the PayPal as a gift phenomenon on either ethical or practical grounds.

As a buyer, I have no problem paying for PayPal fees. However, I don't want to send money via PayPal as a gift for a seller I don't know personally. After all, if the item doesn't show up, what recourse do I have? If I understand correctly, by sending PayPal as a gift, I am losing any PayPal buyer protection I would get. It's just not a risk I want to take, especially if the seller is a stranger. Does anyone else feel similarly?

I also just have a problem saying that something is a gift if it's really not. I mean, it's not a huge deal if it's a $10 transaction, and that is so minor that it doesn't really bother me. However, if it's above that amount, then I feel an obligation to represent my dealings the way they truly happened. Again, I am more than gladly willing to pay a few dollars extra if someone asks me to offset PayPal fees. Just ask, and I am more than willing to compensate people.

But on the Collector to Collector Classifieds, I'm seeing people request that PayPal be sent as a gift, to the tune of $100+ dollar transactions. That is what's truly troubling to me. If the fees bother people so much, why not add an extra charge onto the price? This extra charge seems much more reasonable on my end than a request that I misrepresent my transaction to PayPal and ultimately lose any buyer protection.

Honestly, there is a lot of grey-area with this issue. Personally, I don't see as big of a problem with PayPal as a gift in partial-cash, partial trade deals. After all, in these types of deals, something else is being exchanged. For me, when a trade is involved, it is proof of a transaction in and of itself. I'm really curious to read what everyone else thinks about PayPal as a gift. It seems that in the past six months that these requests are really increasing.

Thoughts?

-Frik

commando
06-22-2011, 01:18 PM
I have wondered about this myself. I agree 100% that a seller should post a price that takes the Paypal fees into consideration. I'm no Paypal expert, but if its true that the buyer loses his protection in a "gift" transaction, then the gift thing should be banned from the forum classifieds.

godwulf
06-22-2011, 01:30 PM
I've sold maybe a dozen bats and a few jerseys on the C-to-C board in the last year or so, and - at least recently - I have asked for a PayPal gift, in order to save on some fees. I guess I justify this by thinking about how I usually end up losing money on the shipping end...but I recognize that it is a justification, not an excuse.

It would not hurt my feelings in the slightest if somebody balked at doing it...and, in the case of eBay transactions, I would probably never even ask, unless it was somebody I knew from other sales or in real life, or someone with whom I'd had friendly conversation prior to the payment.

Here's something else to think about: When I discovered eBay, about 1998, there were virtually no restrictions on how the Buyer paid. Check, money order, "well-hidden cash"...whatever. Then eBay bought PayPal. (I think we can all see where this story is going to end.) Not having sold anything on eBay for a few years, I recently tried listing an item, and included that money orders could be used for payment...and the system would not let me list the item until I'd removed the words "money order" from the item description. In my view, eBay has gone just a bit overboard in trying to wring more and more money out of its users; mandating that all payments must be made through PayPal goes too far, in my opinion.

34swtns
06-22-2011, 01:30 PM
I've had an increasing number of people lately asking that I pay them for goods or services as a "gift" through Paypal in order to avoid the fees. I don't know if Paypal monitors this sort of thing or not but it's not worth the risk to me so I just throw in an extra few bucks (per hundred sent) to cover the fee. My thought is that if you are receiving multiple payments from people all over the country as "gifts" paypal is eventually gonna catch on that you are selling stuff and hold someone accountable. All I know is that I'm not gonna get caught up in the inevitable crackdown that's coming once Paypal puts a stop to this practice, and they will eventually.

godwulf
06-22-2011, 01:36 PM
I've had an increasing number of people lately asking that I pay them for goods or services as a "gift" through Paypal in order to avoid the fees. I don't know if Paypal monitors this sort of thing or not but it's not worth the risk to me so I just throw in an extra few bucks (per hundred sent) to cover the fee. My thought is that if you are receiving multiple payments from people all over the country as "gifts" paypal is eventually gonna catch on that you are selling stuff and hold someone accountable. All I know is that I'm not gonna get caught up in the inevitable crackdown that's coming once Paypal puts a stop to this practice, and they will eventually.

A guy from whom I've bought a number of bats, both on and off eBay, recently told me that he'd been informed by PayPal that if he received two hundred or more payments in a year, even if they were processed as "gifts", the information would be provided to the IRS.

mariner_gamers
06-22-2011, 01:37 PM
Good timing with this thread. I just sent my last "gift" to a seller this morning. This practice has just exploded the past few months. Suddenly everyone wants the buyer to send money as gift. Look as a seller just figure out the darn fees, tack it on the price and lets get on with it.

ncbadges
06-22-2011, 01:38 PM
I don't really Like to send as a gift but TS no different than sending a money order...as most sellers used to prefer.
Ncb

otismalibu
06-22-2011, 02:27 PM
What it comes down to is that sellers think their gross should also be their net. If you want to work it into your price, then fine...just don't mention in the TOS. When I see someone asking for an additional 4% for Paypal fees, i just hit the back button. When I take a cab, I don't chip in for gas money on top of the fare.

BULBUS
06-22-2011, 02:36 PM
I just sent my last Paypal gift. Unless I have dealt with the person priviously and the transaction was smooth, I'll never use the gift option. I also think Paypal will crack down on this in the near future. They are losing money on these transactions.

lakeerie92
06-22-2011, 03:42 PM
Paypal now charges the fees normally charged to the receiver to they buyer now with the gift option, UNLESS, you have the money in your paypal account already then no fees are charged. There used to be no charges at all but it looks as if paypal has already caught on. I will gladly send it as a gift to someone I trust, but other than that I won't do it.

gnishiyama
06-22-2011, 04:39 PM
I have unfortunately had small deals fall apart because of a squabble
over paypal gift. Even if this hobby isn't a business for the seller,
paypal fees should be considered a cost of doing business and should
be incurred by the seller. The seller is paying for convenience and the
buyer is receiving protection. Its a win-win situation.

Sometimes if I really want an item I would offer to pay the fees but
its never a good feeling and most of the time I'll just refuse on
principle. I will go as far as saying its unprofessional. If you went to the
supermarket or a restaurant and they included a 4% fee for using a credit
card you would balk too. I am not talking here about a couple long
time trading buddies sending each other payment to cover a trade
but a general transaction with someone who you don't know.

As someone mentioned if you care so much about the 4% price it in to your
asking price.

Just my 2 cents.

Goh Nishiyama

R.Mansfield
06-22-2011, 04:51 PM
I have been asked about this gift option for almost every transaction I have been in for quite some time, and frankly it is getting old. It seems like on every deal we settle in on a price and then this gift crap comes up, one last gotcha…

I agree that the seller should account for these pay pal fees, shipping, handling, insurance…when coming up with an asking price.

I always end up chipping in some extra money to cover the fees, I am not willing to give up the protection that pay-pal provides, trying to do someone else a favor, saving a few bucks.

To me it is business not personal. I don’t care if it is a stranger or my brother who lives next door, I am weary about every transaction, it seems like everyone is constantly trying to pull something.

Russell Mansfield
batdna@sbcglobal.net

Tedw9
06-22-2011, 05:06 PM
I agree with those who pay the fees themselves, I won't send via gift, I pay the fees myself. The only time I gift the money is if I am donating to a cause. Or in a few months, I will be gifting my daughter money while she is away in college. I don't need my account banned because someone wants to save a few bucks, I'll pay it myself.

To help those who are paying the fees themselves, here is a nifty little site to help you figure out exactly how much to spend.

http://www.rolbe.com/paypal4.htm

5toolplayer
06-22-2011, 06:54 PM
I agree with every single post on this thread. I've done numerous deals on this board the last few months and 99.99% of the time after a price is agreed upon I tell the seller to send me a paypal invoice and then the "gift" option is brought right up. Why can't the seller just add all the charges into their asking price?? If you want 150 for a bat and want to clear 150, ask for 157 via paypal. Make this easy. Oh and yeah, if you send the payment as a gift and never receive your item, paypal doesn't cover anything!! Lesson learned, trust me!

indyred
06-22-2011, 06:55 PM
Unless you know the person well and live near them I would never ever gift a payment. As a buyer you lose any and all protection in the deal. No charge back or any recourse if you get screwed in the deal. No way to pressure seller if they are slow shipping ect... Seller doesn't even have to use insurance or prove it was delivered. You can't get back a gift payment no matter what.

As a Seller getting gift payments is the best. No worry of charge backs or having to worry about losing the money if deal goes bad.

shaunharr
06-22-2011, 07:15 PM
Didn't read thru everyone's posts, so not sure if this has been said, but...

PAYPAL WILL SHUT YOUR ACCOUNT DOWN IF YOU GET OR GIVE AS A GIFT TOO MANY TIMES!!!!!!!!

Shipp_96
06-22-2011, 09:11 PM
Well, after reading thru all of these I decided to post, since I am a person who currently has listed items for sale, and yes, I asked for Paypal as a gift.

First, I honestly had no idea you did not get buyer protection, or I would have never asked. As you all know, we cannot edit our posts, but I will add an addendum saying you do not have to choose the gift option.

That being said, the reason I did this, was because for the last year every time I buy anything, I am asked to pay as a gift. Even when I sell to Canada or Japan, I am asked to send it as a gift to avoid custom charges for the buyer. So, I figured I must be missing out on something here, and decided to ask for this.

Ironically, items I have bought on GUU, from even people who posted to this particular thread, made this request of me when I paid them.

So, I will chalk it up as a lesson learned, because I know I would have been p!ssed had I found out I was not protected when I paid for the numerous items I purchased via the gift option.

ferro39
06-22-2011, 09:24 PM
i ask for gifts, but im always upfront with potential buyers. i never bring it up after a deal has been shaken on

my list prices are usually by way of a money order or a gift. if they want the protection, im happy to accommodate if they add the 3.5%

i always give numerous options and tell them that i want them to be comfortable with the transaction. recently, a buyer sent me a bank check. that was fine. i just waited a set amount of time to make sure it cleared before i sent the item out

generally, im happy to work with buyers any way that i can and make them feel comfortable in doing a deal with me, but seeing as how sellers arent offered anything in the way of protection from paypal, i refuse to take the hit for the fee.

ferro39
06-22-2011, 09:42 PM
also, to offer a different POV, a lot of potential buyers ask for bottom line prices when they window shop and offer to pay as a gift if i can deduct the 3.5% off. like i said, in happy to work with a buyer as long as i get my money.

this isnt always about big bad sellers trying to take away a buyer's paypal rights. oftentimes, that small difference can be the difference between someone being able to afford a jersey and not

Billy77
06-22-2011, 09:48 PM
Personally...

I think Paypal as gift is really lame for any one to ask for....

And also...ALL transactions should be included and accepted through the post and not pm'ed or email...

Everything should be fair as possible but it seems mant members on this site rather be for themsleves and not what is fair...

Just my 02 and I DO NOT NEDD all thos ewho wish to be nameless chirp their b***s**t

jobathenut
06-23-2011, 02:30 AM
I just had to chime in to what you said about ebay,or greedbay as i call it.I also was a member back in the good old days when you could pay the way you wanted on there and i loved it.And then it went to hell when they bought paypal and then demand you pay only that way.I am still not sure how thats not a monopoly but whatever.I had to stop selling on there because of the paypal thing.As they dont understand not everyone can do it.I just had to say i have boycot ebay since and i just miss it cause it was so great back then.And now its all buisness and all stores.And back then it was normal everyday people,mom and pop kind of people selling thier items.Its like overstock . com now on there.
I've sold maybe a dozen bats and a few jerseys on the C-to-C board in the last year or so, and - at least recently - I have asked for a PayPal gift, in order to save on some fees. I guess I justify this by thinking about how I usually end up losing money on the shipping end...but I recognize that it is a justification, not an excuse.

It would not hurt my feelings in the slightest if somebody balked at doing it...and, in the case of eBay transactions, I would probably never even ask, unless it was somebody I knew from other sales or in real life, or someone with whom I'd had friendly conversation prior to the payment.

Here's something else to think about: When I discovered eBay, about 1998, there were virtually no restrictions on how the Buyer paid. Check, money order, "well-hidden cash"...whatever. Then eBay bought PayPal. (I think we can all see where this story is going to end.) Not having sold anything on eBay for a few years, I recently tried listing an item, and included that money orders could be used for payment...and the system would not let me list the item until I'd removed the words "money order" from the item description. In my view, eBay has gone just a bit overboard in trying to wring more and more money out of its users; mandating that all payments must be made through PayPal goes too far, in my opinion.

freddiefreeman5
06-23-2011, 08:44 AM
The Paypal and Ebay monopoly does suck. Too many Paypal horror stories out there.
I wish someone would develope a viable alternate to Ebay.

As far as the Paypal gift thing I just chalk it up to the seller nickle and diming the buyer. I don't like it but I can choose to buy the item or not.
I do have to say that it makes the seller look a little greedy.

commando
06-23-2011, 11:53 AM
I have been buying and selling on eBay since 1998. If you buy an item on eBay and use Paypal, of course you can't use the gift option. But the point I'm trying to make is I'm glad I had the buyer protection because of fraud. I have actually bought from sellers with feedback over 1,000 who decided to flake out after I sent them MY money. It's kinda like someone who had had a great credit score for many years, then just decides one day to "screw it."

MarinersFan34
06-23-2011, 01:02 PM
I am one of the ones that will usually hit the back button if I see a demand to pay via gift and/or add 3%. Even if the item is a grail item, nothing screams "I'm greedy" more than the 3% fees tacked on.

You are using an online service to get your money instantly, why should that be free for you? I'm sure if you were PayPal you'd certainly not want everyone using your online service for free since you have your own bills to pay, no?

While I have paid via gift for items when it wasn't asked it was more because I didn't get that same greedy vibe so I figured I'd help out the seller on fees. I doubt I'll pay by gift anymore though simply because of lack of buyer protection.

As a seller I've never requested payment as gift nor ever added on the extra fee and never will. It's part of doing business and if I want my money instantly, there's a fee, I can live with that.

yankees506
06-23-2011, 02:29 PM
Well since i only accept "'gifts" ill throw in my 2 cents. I look at it this way, if i have seen you sell on the forum before and are reputable i have no problem with the "gift" option. However if some random person emails me and has an item i want then there is no way im sending a gift. It all depends on who the seller is in my eyes.

As for adding fees on top of prices, everyone wants a deal and a few dollars do make a difference. Lets say im selling a bat for $157 so i can clear $150 on paypal, someone is going to email me and say "can you take $150" so why the hastle over $7? Thats why retail prices are always $199, $299 and not $200 and $300 etc....... a dollar makes all the difference.

dabadestalbo69
06-26-2011, 04:47 PM
I see nothing wrong with sending payment as gift. I dont always ask for payment as gift but i do at times. Usually when dealing with me people have no problems, im a very legit person on forums and people have no worries when dealing with me.

If you ask questions, do you research and know who the seller has dealt with and protect yourself i see no problem sending a payment as gift. Ive seen payments as gift before.

Just use your head.

G1X
06-26-2011, 07:46 PM
What I find interesting in this thread is that while many folks have mentioned that they do not want to use the "Gift" option because they lose the buyer protection, the most important point is being ignored. Simply stated, using the "Gift" option on a sale/purchase is DISHONEST, UNETHICAL, and FRAUDULENT.

As someone stated in an earlier thread, Pay Pal is an online service that handles money transactions and offers certain protections for its customers. Like it or not, it is a business that provides a most useful service. It is not a free service - nor should it be - or else they could not exist.

Like it or not, once you start selling your game-used items, you have to be prepared to pay the expenses involved. Among other things, there are shipping costs, income taxes to pay, and any other expenses that might come into play.

The simple solution is that if you do not like Pay Pal's rules and do not feel that the fees are fair, simply ask for payment through another instrument such as a Money Order, bank check, bank wire, personal check, etc. And don't use ebay if you are not willing to play by their payment rules (Pay Pal).

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

Always looking for World Football League and Atlanta Falcons jerseys, and any Willie McGee and Darren Lewis game-used items.

both-teams-played-hard
06-26-2011, 09:09 PM
Simply stated, using the "Gift" option on a sale/purchase is DISHONEST, UNETHICAL, and FRAUDULENT.



Yes, yes and yes.
The best thing about PayPal is buyer/seller protection. A "gift" isn't covered.
C'mon folks just fork over the 3 per cent.
Or, if it's not an eBay purchase, send a personal check and wait 2 weeks.

legaleagle92481
06-26-2011, 09:29 PM
Many of us are taking losses on items when we sell so obviously not looking for another three percent hit is understandable. Lets face it mose items particularly those purchased from the JOs and Steiners of the world are not going to reap as much as we paid for them when sold. If you paid $1,000 for a Nick Mangold gamer from JO and JO has two currently in stock for that same price noone is going to pay you more than $1,000 or even $1,000 for yours. To sell it you have to take a hit. It is annoying having to then take the additional Paypal hit. Ive been there many times. i used to request gifts but then i started doing what I do now. If the charge is going to be minimal, like a few dollars I eat it. On bigger sales I request that the buyer pay by money order or cashiers check or pay my paypal fee. in most cases the buyer just wants the item and will gladly do this. I have had people pay 80 dollars extra before.

Gocong57
06-27-2011, 05:35 AM
I have the exact same experience/viewpoint as legaleagle. If someone really wants an item from me, they pay $$ on the spot, minimal haggling. I'm upfront about all additional costs. I don't offer paypal-gift sales to buyers I've never transacted with on multiple occasions. I wouldn't buy an item from anyone who demanded only paypal-gift pmt as an option--too risky and sketchy.

Even if you fairly price to include postage/paypal, buyers still try hard to lower list $ and don't accept it as firm. At the end of the day it's the bottom line price both buyers and sellers are willing to accept regardless of how you get there.

Gocong57
06-27-2011, 05:44 AM
I find it very hard to believe that big time business Paypal didn't calculate these "gift" sales transactions when it implemented the gift option--it takes out from their contractual responsiblity with users of having to deal with the headaches from resolving fraudulent or otherwise failed transactions (and commensurate hiring of personnel to deal with same). If paypal objected, there would be an explicit warning somewhere at point of transaction. When losing $ on charges > costs to deal with certain sales transaction, they'll clamp down.

commando
06-27-2011, 01:22 PM
It's true that a serious team or player collector will buy an item he/she wants with little haggling. A seller is very fortunate when they offer an item that fits in that category. The reality though is that many GU items up for sale are not in heavy demand, meaning the seller has to make the item as attractive as possible to appeal to potential buyers.

There is no doubt that it is a buyer's market right now. Cash is scarce. If you're selling items from you collection because of need, then you know this. Many collectors right now just don't have the money to buy random things for their collection, so they have to choose wisely and look for value. If someone is on the fence about buying an item and sees the seller is requesting a Paypal gift, there's a good chance they'll just move on to the next opportunity. You can argue all day about the "gift" payment not being a big deal, but I can tell you I have passed on more than one deal because of it.

PwKw13
06-27-2011, 01:38 PM
What I find interesting in this thread is that while many folks have mentioned that they do not want to use the "Gift" option because they lose the buyer protection, the most important point is being ignored. Simply stated, using the "Gift" option on a sale/purchase is DISHONEST, UNETHICAL, and FRAUDULENT.

The simple solution is that if you do not like Pay Pal's rules and do not feel that the fees are fair, simply ask for payment through another instrument such as a Money Order, bank check, bank wire, personal check, etc. And don't use ebay if you are not willing to play by their payment rules (Pay Pal).

That's the bottom line -- well said.

ferro39
06-27-2011, 05:21 PM
what i find most ironic is that a good # of the people who are so quick to label sellers as "greedy" for not wanting to foot the bill for paypal fees are probably the same collectors who make lowball offers on items.

truthfully, i dont like using paypal. as a seller i think it's a crock of s. i dont see why im supposed to eat 3.5% so some j4ck0ff can turn around and claim that i sent them a ratty t-shirt instead of a $400 jersey, file a claim, get their money back and get to keep the jersey i sent them. as a seller, where's my protection when something like that happens, so again why pay the 3.5%? so i can get my money faster?

im happy to wait for a check to clear or for a MO to arrive. im not in a big rush. however, im smart enough to see paypal as a necessary evil today. the same way people pass over items for sale if a seller insists on someone sending the money as a gift (which i never ever do) is the same way some buyers will pass on an item if a seller doesnt accept paypal. if you do any kind of buying and selling today, you have to have it.

forgive me if im coming off as bitter. im honestly not. i just dont appreciate people making blind and false assumptions about how anyone who prefers to deal with gifts is "greedy," "dishonest," or is guilty of "fraudulent" activities. those are some pretty heavy adjectives to throw around and are most certainly not true in most cases, certainly not in mine. the truth is that i would rather deal with money orders. i mean, how many times have we either read or said to ourselves, "someone really needs to come up with a better alternative to paypal?"

i pride myself on my reputation and honesty. in a hobby like this, those are 2 of the most important things that collectors can have going for them, but yes, let's lump honest people who try to bypass a sometimes very silly and very ineffective system with people who fake jerseys and rip other collectors off. that makes no sense to me

ferro39
06-27-2011, 05:40 PM
to add another point, just so everyone is clear, i never force or try to steer a buyer into sending payment as a gift or spring the extra fee at the last minute ever ever ever. the only reason why i even offer the option these days is to save buyers a few extra bucks

as a previous member mentioned, money is tight now, so collectors are looking for the best possible deal on an item. i have a bunch of items currently listed on ebay now with BINs and BO options. more times than not, buyers arent even making offers anymore. they just send direct messages asking what my bottom line, drop dead price is.

to that, i provide a bunch of options. one such way is that if they're willing to send payment as a gift or via bank check or MO, i can shave that money off the price. if they dont want to do that, i dont particularly care. however, if they want a bottom line, drop dead price, i give it to them. if they want a bottom line price with ebay and paypal involved for their ease of mind too, i also give them that.

first and foremost, i want them to be comfortable in completing a deal with me and will do anything it takes to ensure that that happens.

freddiefreeman5
06-27-2011, 07:54 PM
the only reason why i even offer the option these days is to save buyers a few extra bucks


?

otismalibu
06-27-2011, 08:36 PM
im happy to wait for a check to clear or for a MO to arrive. im not in a big rush.

Plenty of buyers (myself included) like to get their items quick. I pay via Paypal and often have the item in 3 days. Same goes for selling. I ship same day, as long as the post office is open.

I'm sure many of these fee tackers are the same sellers that parcel post the item rather than cough up another two quarters for Priority. :)

ferro39
06-27-2011, 09:48 PM
if at all possible, i ship within 24 hours. if i have free time, i sometimes get jerseys out within the hour. i also always expedited shipping speed if possible.

who knows? from what ive been reading, maybe im the exception in that regard and shouldnt take any of this personally

and im serious freeman. if i have an item that i know that i absolutely cant clear less than $500 for, i either have to charge the $517 or whatever it is through paypal or i can get take the $500 as a gift, MO, etc

MLB~NUT
06-28-2011, 05:31 AM
G1X You took the WORD right outta my MOUTH!!!

larry bourget
06-28-2011, 12:33 PM
what i find most ironic is that a good # of the people who are so quick to label sellers as "greedy" for not wanting to foot the bill for paypal fees are probably the same collectors who make lowball offers on items.

truthfully, i dont like using paypal. as a seller i think it's a crock of s. i dont see why im supposed to eat 3.5% so some j4ck0ff can turn around and claim that i sent them a ratty t-shirt instead of a $400 jersey, file a claim, get their money back and get to keep the jersey i sent them. as a seller, where's my protection when something like that happens, so again why pay the 3.5%? so i can get my money faster?

im happy to wait for a check to clear or for a MO to arrive. im not in a big rush. however, im smart enough to see paypal as a necessary evil today. the same way people pass over items for sale if a seller insists on someone sending the money as a gift (which i never ever do) is the same way some buyers will pass on an item if a seller doesnt accept paypal. if you do any kind of buying and selling today, you have to have it.

forgive me if im coming off as bitter. im honestly not. i just dont appreciate people making blind and false assumptions about how anyone who prefers to deal with gifts is "greedy," "dishonest," or is guilty of "fraudulent" activities. those are some pretty heavy adjectives to throw around and are most certainly not true in most cases, certainly not in mine. the truth is that i would rather deal with money orders. i mean, how many times have we either read or said to ourselves, "someone really needs to come up with a better alternative to paypal?"

i pride myself on my reputation and honesty. in a hobby like this, those are 2 of the most important things that collectors can have going for them, but yes, let's lump honest people who try to bypass a sometimes very silly and very ineffective system with people who fake jerseys and rip other collectors off. that makes no sense to me

Ferro39,

This is one of the Best Post's i have read in a long time, and with regards to paypal with the SCAMing Buyer's having all the rights. I am getting very leary of accepting it anymore, i have never had a problem with anyone who POST's on this Forum that i recognize.

Sometimes asking for PayPal as gift can scare the Scammers off, especially the oppurtunistic low life that surf Ebay.

If your a serious enough buyer willing to send a M.O.,Cashiers check, etc., makes you a seroiusly accountable person in my book.

I insure everthing i sell for the purchased price no matter where it's going. I only ship to CANADA and the U.S.A.

larry.bourget@sympatico.ca

both-teams-played-hard
06-28-2011, 02:28 PM
If your a serious enough buyer willing to send a M.O.,Cashiers check, etc., makes you a seroiusly accountable person in my book.


You can't use a M.O., Cashiers check, etc. for an eBay purchase. Serious buyers have bank accounts, credit cards and use PayPal.

Preston
06-28-2011, 03:33 PM
My two cents - if I know the buyer and have dealt with them before, then I have no problem having it sent as a "gift".

However, if it's a first-time buyer or someone I may not be totally solid on their reputation, then I want payment sent over regularly, even if it deducts a small "fee" - I'd rather lose like $3-4 than the entire sale. Buyer protection is HUGE, IMO...but I personally don't see a problem with someone I've got a good rapport with sending payment as a gift.

Jags Fan Dan
06-28-2011, 04:10 PM
Paypal/Ebay have gotten so much money from me, I feel like if I am dealing with a reputable forum member I will send a gift payment. They (eBay/Paypal) don't need anymore of my money than they already have gotten and will get. I feel that is one of the advantages of the forum, you can kind of know who you are dealing with even if you don't personally know them. I know it might not be the high road, but at least I will be honest about it.

Preston
06-28-2011, 11:05 PM
Paypal/Ebay have gotten so much money from me, I feel like if I am dealing with a reputable forum member I will send a gift payment. They (eBay/Paypal) don't need anymore of my money than they already have gotten and will get. I feel that is one of the advantages of the forum, you can kind of know who you are dealing with even if you don't personally know them. I know it might not be the high road, but at least I will be honest about it.

eBay constantly jacking up their fees and PayPal charging the fee they do isn't exactly taking the high road, either.

G1X
06-29-2011, 08:59 AM
I am a bit surprised and personally disappointed by some of the recent posts. Referencing back to my previous post in this thread (post #27), Pay Pal is a business that handles money transactions. It acts much like a credit card company when making sales/purchases, and charges a fee for its services just like a credit card company at a similar rate. It's not a free service - it's a business, just like a credit card company.

As for those of you who continue to justify using the "Gift" option, I will repeat what I said earlier. It is UNETHICAL, DISHONEST, and FRAUDULENT. Maybe some of you do not perceive it in those strong terms, and I am sure that most of you are good folks, but that's exactly what it is. You are cheating a business out of its fees.

I've been in the hobby for over 50 years (37 in the game-used hobby) and one thing that I can attest to is the hobby has always had a somewhat less than favorable reputation in the eyes of the public when it comes to integrity issues. Although some of you may see using the "Gift" option as a very minor transgression or no sin at all, there are many who see it otherwise and another example of folks in the hobby being less than completely forthright in their dealings.

We all need to do the "right thing", regardless of what misdeeds others have done to us or whether we feel that a busines is "ripping us off" with their fees, prices, etc. As said before, if you don't like a particular service, don't use them. (Show them your displeasure with your wallet.) If we don't do the "right thing", then the hobby's reputation and all of us who participate will be viewed in a lesser light.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

Always looking for World Fotball League and Atlanta Falcons jerseys, and Willie McGee and Darren Lewis game-used items.

commando
06-29-2011, 12:07 PM
You are cheating a business out of its fees.

Mark, I agree with everything you said except for this. It sounds like in the past, the "gift" transactions through Paypal were free. But now the person sending the money has to pay the transaction fee, rather than the recipient like in other Paypal transactions... But Paypal does get its money.

So what you have now with a gift transaction is the buyer paying the fees -- and he loses his buyer's protection as a thanks! Not a good deal for the buyer in my opinion.

I don't care how well you know the person selling you an item. What if you buy a $100 item from someone and it simply doesn't arrive in the mail? Even if you are 100% sure the item was really sent, stuff happens. Now, one of you will have to take the loss or split it unless you bought postal insurance.

BULBUS
06-29-2011, 12:26 PM
Paypal is a business with expenses. Plus, if you use your credit card, THEY have to pay the credit card fees (they try like heck to get you to use your bank account or Paypal balance to avoid those fees though). So in the end, their profit has to be what, less than 1%, 1/2%??

-Chris

G1X
06-29-2011, 12:58 PM
Anthony,

It is my understanding that the sender does not pay the transaction fee on a "Gift" when drawn from a bank account on file or from their Pay Pal balance. For example, I recently sent cash to a friend to help him with some personal expenses. I sent it is a "gift" (which it was) and was not charged a transaction fee by Pay Pal as I drew it off my bank account.

If the the money is drawn from a credit card, I would assume that Pay Pal charges a fee at that point as they have to recover the fees charged by the credit card company for a cash "advance". Chris (BULBUS) hit the nail on the head on that point in his post.

If the transaction was being conducted in the proper manner to begin with ("Purchase of Goods" instead of a "Gift"), the loss of Buyer Protection - the issue that seems to be rubbing some collectors the wrong way as being unfair - would not be an issue.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

Always looking for World Football League and Atlanta Falcons jerseys, and Willie McGee and Darren Lewis game-used items.

commando
06-29-2011, 03:59 PM
Anthony,

It is my understanding that the sender does not pay the transaction fee on a "Gift" when drawn from a bank account on file or from their Pay Pal balance. For example, I recently sent cash to a friend to help him with some personal expenses. I sent it is a "gift" (which it was) and was not charged a transaction fee by Pay Pal as I drew it off my bank account.

Ahhhh, I see what you're saying. I never have much of a Paypal balance, and have used my credit card on gift transactions so I'd have protection. Thanks for the clarification!

Jags Fan Dan
06-29-2011, 04:06 PM
Ok, so here is a big question I have, since we are worried about ripping off paypal and depriving them of their fees...
It does not take a genius with infinite foresight to see how the "gift" option could be abused, and I am sure the good folks running eBay/Paypal are way smarter than myself, so why would they (and how could they afford to) have a way where folks can send money with no fees at either end? Did they do that out of the goodness of their hearts?
All I'm saying is, they have to know this could be occurring and they still have the option out there. There has to be more to this than we all know.

G1X
06-29-2011, 07:10 PM
Personally, I am not near as worried about Pay Pal losing out on fees as I am concerned about the state of the hobby and society in general if it is becoming acceptable and justifiable to be less than forthright in our dealings. If so, heaven help us all.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

Always looking for World Football League and Atlanta Falcons jerseys, and Willie McGee and Darren Lewis game-used items.

Jags Fan Dan
06-29-2011, 08:07 PM
I just perused the paypal site, has anybody seen any specific rules about when it is ok to send a payment as a gift or not? I'd like to see paypal's official stance on this but could not find anything definitive.

ferro39
06-29-2011, 09:11 PM
I am a bit surprised and personally disappointed by some of the recent posts. Referencing back to my previous post in this thread (post #27), Pay Pal is a business that handles money transactions. It acts much like a credit card company when making sales/purchases, and charges a fee for its services just like a credit card company at a similar rate. It's not a free service - it's a business, just like a credit card company.

As for those of you who continue to justify using the "Gift" option, I will repeat what I said earlier. It is UNETHICAL, DISHONEST, and FRAUDULENT. Maybe some of you do not perceive it in those strong terms, and I am sure that most of you are good folks, but that's exactly what it is. You are cheating a business out of its fees.

I've been in the hobby for over 50 years (37 in the game-used hobby) and one thing that I can attest to is the hobby has always had a somewhat less than favorable reputation in the eyes of the public when it comes to integrity issues. Although some of you may see using the "Gift" option as a very minor transgression or no sin at all, there are many who see it otherwise and another example of folks in the hobby being less than completely forthright in their dealings.

We all need to do the "right thing", regardless of what misdeeds others have done to us or whether we feel that a busines is "ripping us off" with their fees, prices, etc. As said before, if you don't like a particular service, don't use them. (Show them your displeasure with your wallet.) If we don't do the "right thing", then the hobby's reputation and all of us who participate will be viewed in a lesser light.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

Always looking for World Fotball League and Atlanta Falcons jerseys, and Willie McGee and Darren Lewis game-used items.

there doesnt seem to be any happy medium here

what ive learned in this thread is that if i take payment as a gift, im "unethical" and "fraudulent," and if i charge the buyer the fee, im "greedy" and risk chasing away potential buyers

unless im missing something, basically, im supposed to either bend over and pay for a service that protects the buyer and the buyer only, or simply not use paypal at all and, by default, completely close up shop on ebay to take a moral stand...or i guess take my business over to a site like ioffer where the scamming makes the stuff that goes down on eBay look like kindergarten, and which doesnt get a fraction of the eyes that ebay does

what would you do if you were me? im not asking rhetorically. im genuinely curious

the most responsible solution seems to be to continue to offer paypal as an option, insist that buyers pay the 3.5% if they want the protection, and apparently risk alienating a bunch of people in the process

34swtns
06-29-2011, 09:40 PM
Here's an idea: next time you're at your local grocery store tell the cashier that the money you give her for the merchandise is a "gift" to the store and you don't want to pay the sales tax.

See how that works out for ya'.

And don't bother flapping the "but that's different" argument.
It's really not.....at all.

ferro39
06-29-2011, 09:50 PM
flapping? right.

i asked a honest question. no need to be condescending

freddiefreeman5
06-29-2011, 09:52 PM
there doesnt seem to be any happy medium here

what ive learned in this thread is that if i take payment as a gift, im "unethical" and "fraudulent," and if i charge the buyer the fee, im "greedy" and risk chasing away potential buyers

unless im missing something, basically, im supposed to either bend over and pay for a service that protects the buyer and the buyer only, or simply not use paypal at all and, by default, completely close up shop on ebay to take a moral stand...or i guess take my business over to a site like ioffer where the scamming makes the stuff that goes down on eBay look like kindergarten, and which doesnt get a fraction of the eyes that ebay does

what would you do if you were me? im not asking rhetorically. im genuinely curious

the most responsible solution seems to be to continue to offer paypal as an option, insist that buyers pay the 3.5% if they want the protection, and apparently risk alienating a bunch of people in the process
What you are missing here is that you pay Paypal to process your sale. You, the seller, are paying for a service. That service helps you recruit buyers to your product. If Paypal was not helpful to you, the seller, then you would not use it would you?
So you seem to want to use their service to help you sell your product but you dont want to pay for it.
And I will never send a "gift" payment unless I use my credit card because I want some protection. So I am stuck paying your fees while you enjoy the service for free.

ferro39
06-29-2011, 09:57 PM
so in that regard, if paypal helps sellers recruit buyers and if buyers are afforded the protection, is it fair to split the fees?

otismalibu
06-29-2011, 09:59 PM
im supposed to either bend over and pay for a service that protects the buyer and the buyer only,

Yes, we're usually expected to pay for goods and services.

Which do you think is a bigger problem in the hobby? Buyer fraud or seller fraud?

ferro39
06-29-2011, 10:06 PM
Yes, we're usually expected to pay for goods and services.

Which do you think is a bigger problem in the hobby? Buyer fraud or seller fraud?


i understand that goods and services need to be paid for.

another member mentioned that that a big reason why paypal is key for buyers (in addition to the protection) is because buyers like to get their items ASAP and paypal speeds up that process.

all of that said, shouldnt the buyer assume some of that responsibility then? it seems like paypal is as much of a service for the buyer as it is for the seller. it also saves them a trip to the bank or the post office

hard for me to say what is the bigger problem, though. i think that buying and selling fraud is equally slimy, but i have no idea which is more prevalent

34swtns
06-29-2011, 10:07 PM
The fact that this discussion has gone this far is ridiculous. No matter how you try to validate your argument the simple fact is there's no justification for stealing. None.

Their service, their rules.
Don't like it, don't use it.

otismalibu
06-29-2011, 10:14 PM
all of that said, shouldnt the buyer assume some of that responsibility then? it seems like paypal is as much of a service for the buyer as it is for the seller. it also saves them a trip to the bank or the post office

So should eBay buyers have to kick in a little for the seller's listing fees? They're both using eBay.

ferro39
06-29-2011, 10:16 PM
im not validating anything. im giving my side, which apparently other collectors agree with, and am trying to understand the other side in all of this.

if you dont like what i have to say, that's fine. granted, it's the nature of message boards, but there's no need to be smug with me

and talking this out, has given me a solution--higher asking prices and offering a 3.5% discount to anyone who wants to pay with a MO or bank check

otismalibu
06-29-2011, 10:23 PM
higher asking prices and offering a 3.5% discount to anyone who wants to pay with a MO or bank check

There you have it. You charge enough to cover your expenses (eBay, Paypal, etc.) If someone makes a purchase that doesn't involve eBay or Paypal, then you always have the option to reflect your reduced costs in their purchase. price.

ferro39
06-29-2011, 10:47 PM
a random question that just popped into my mind: why arent collectors who ask for "help" with getty images or MLB TV screen caps subject to criticism?

there are never any shortage of threads asking for pictures because people either dont want to foot the bill for a high-res image or because they dont want to subscribe to MLB's online service.

double standard or no?

both-teams-played-hard
06-29-2011, 10:57 PM
a random question that just popped into my mind: why arent collectors who ask for "help" with getty images or MLB TV screen caps subject to criticism?

there are never any shortage of threads asking for pictures because people either dont want to foot the bill for a high-res image or because they dont want to subscribe to MLB's online service.

double standard or no?
I think the people who find Gettyimages or MLB screenshots are just helping folks. These are jpegs, not hard copies and there is no money involved.

ferro39
06-29-2011, 11:06 PM
I think the people who find Gettyimages or MLB screenshots are just helping folks. These are jpegs, not hard copies and there is no money involved.

but those pictures also belong to getty and that video belongs to MLB and not to the people who are helping others. both parties charge for their services and a lot of people pay for those services.

does the fact that no money exchanged negate the fact that their product is being stolen and given away for free?

thanks to the search option on this board i think i have my answer. oddly enough, some of the same people who seem to be very outspoken against sidestepping paypal are ok with robbing from image sites and major league baseball and giving away their property for free

trsent
06-30-2011, 01:00 AM
but those pictures also belong to getty and that video belongs to MLB and not to the people who are helping others. both parties charge for their services and a lot of people pay for those services.

does the fact that no money exchanged negate the fact that their product is being stolen and given away for free?

thanks to the search option on this board i think i have my answer. oddly enough, some of the same people who seem to be very outspoken against sidestepping paypal are ok with robbing from image sites and major league baseball and giving away their property for free

You are correct, people steal images from Getty all the time and make bootleg photos that they have athletes autograph. Very common practice.

Someone stealing from Getty Images is not the topic and is not comparable with the concept of sellers demanding PayPal as a gift.

The concept of PayPal is to protect both the buyer and the seller. If a buyer sends money as a gift, they have nothing to protect them if the seller doesn't ship or ships the wrong item. Demanding a gift or money order leaves the buyer with zero protection.

If someone won't accept PayPal as payment, I ask them to ship me the item in advance and I will then forward them payment. I guess after 25 years in the industry I feel I have the right to ask for this. The seller also has the right to refuse this to me, but if they won't offer me protection I have to protect myself, my family and my business.

PayPal as a gift is meant to be used for sending money to family, friends, etc. when they need money. Maybe to save on fees from a company such as Western Union. It is PayPal offering good faith transfers for customers with a balance in their account.

Sellers demanding PayPal gifts are just as wrong as gas stations that charge extra to accept credit cards. Figure your price with all fees, and if you get lucky and someone offers to send you a gift or money order, enjoy the extra revenue.

Do not derail the discussion comparing stealing from Getty Images or MLB's game footage with sending PayPal gifts. They have nothing in common and are just a tactic to confuse the discussion which should have been started long before Friv started it because it is wrong and against PayPal rules and common sense.

ferro39
06-30-2011, 01:33 AM
Someone stealing from Getty Images is not the topic and is not comparable with the concept of sellers demanding PayPal as a gift.


i have never demanded that a seller send payment as a gift nor do i condone it. i was just offering my opinion on why as to why i GIVE THE OPTION if a buyer wants the cheapest possible price. when i did that, a bunch of people jumped on a bunch of us and accused us of stealing and using a service and not paying for it.

and the fact that "paypal" and "getty images" could be interchanged in a bunch of different posts in this thread, makes them extremely comparable, imho

if collectors feel so strongly about things like integrity and not stealing intellectual properties, perhaps a little more consistency would go a long way in not making certain people sound like complete hypocrites--openly sharing getty images in one thread and labeling people as thieves for accepting paypal gifts in another?

as for derailing the thread, that wasnt my intention, but the thought of this obvious double standard irked me and i felt it needed to be pointed out.

maybe another thread is in order?

otismalibu
06-30-2011, 08:01 AM
PayPal as a gift is meant to be used for sending money to family, friends, etc. when they need money. Maybe to save on fees from a company such as Western Union. It is PayPal offering good faith transfers for customers with a balance in their account.

When I first started selling on eBay, my Paypal payments received never had any fees associated with them. I'd say my first 20 -30 payments must have been from a balance and thus had no fees. Back then, there were no fees if you were paid from a balance. Eventually, someone would pay via CC. Then to accept that payment, you had to upgrade your membership (premiere?) and from then on, ALL payments were subject to fees, whether from a balance or CC. It was a great run, while it lasted.

I assume the Gift option is a way to let people have this freebie option, when maybe they don't need buyer protection.

frikativ54
06-30-2011, 09:49 AM
i have never demanded that a seller send payment as a gift nor do i condone it. i was just offering my opinion on why as to why i GIVE THE OPTION if a buyer wants the cheapest possible price. when i did that, a bunch of people jumped on a bunch of us and accused us of stealing and using a service and not paying for it.

and the fact that "paypal" and "getty images" could be interchanged in a bunch of different posts in this thread, makes them extremely comparable, imho

if collectors feel so strongly about things like integrity and not stealing intellectual properties, perhaps a little more consistency would go a long way in not making certain people sound like complete hypocrites--openly sharing getty images in one thread and labeling people as thieves for accepting paypal gifts in another?

as for derailing the thread, that wasnt my intention, but the thought of this obvious double standard irked me and i felt it needed to be pointed out.

maybe another thread is in order?

Honestly, I think that GettyImages and screenshots are different topics altogether; it's hard to make a comparison between these things and PayPal gifts. The issues raised by them are different, plus there are several concerns about PayPal gifts that have absolutely nothing to do with ethics. If someone wants to make ethics-based claims about GettyImages, I think that would be better left for another thread.

Tedw9
07-02-2011, 08:15 AM
I found this same topic on another board I visit. A couple of members there received this email from Paypal within the past week or so.





We recently changed our pricing so that all PayPal customers can receive
money from friends and family within the US/CA for free. PayPal
merchants receiving money as payment for a purchase, continue to incur
fees.

We’re not sure if you are aware of this, but we noticed that some of
your customers are sending you personal payments for purchases.
Unfortunately, this violates our rules, and we need your help correcting
this. Please don’t ask or allow your customers to use personal payments
to pay for their purchases.

If we continue to see such activity, we may have to disable your ability
to receive personal payments, and then you will pay fees for all money
received through PayPal.

You can find more information about payment types and fees in our User
Agreement – just click “Legal Agreements” at the bottom of any PayPal
page.

If you have any questions, concerns, or think we may have made a
mistake, please contact us at P2P@paypal.com. Thank you for helping us
resolve this matter.

Sincerely,

Laura




A few of the people who have replied to the thread have said that their ability to send or receive gift payments has been terminated.

I'm just putting the information out there for everyone.

commando
07-02-2011, 11:52 AM
Good post, Tedw9.

Paypal is now monitoring the frequency of gift transactions, probably through the use of a simple tracking program. We don't know when the red flag comes up (three gift transactions in a month, five in six months??), but I don't want my account to make the list.

camarokids
07-02-2011, 01:17 PM
Good post, Tedw9.

Paypal is now monitoring the frequency of gift transactions, probably through the use of a simple tracking program. We don't know when the red flag comes up (three gift transactions in a month, five in six months??), but I don't want my account to make the list.

I know I won't be sending gift payments anymore.

kmantm64
07-06-2011, 11:33 AM
I recently bought an item on this forum that turned out to not be authentic. I paid by Paypal gift and now I have no recourse. I'll be adding the fee to my payments from now on to cover myself in the future.

BULBUS
07-06-2011, 11:36 AM
I recently bought an item on this forum that turned out to not be authentic. I paid by Paypal gift and now I have no recourse. I'll be adding the fee to my payments from now on to cover myself in the future.

Did you use you credit or debit card to make the transaction through Paypal? If so, just call them and they can get your money back.

-Chris

trsent
07-06-2011, 12:02 PM
Did you use you credit or debit card to make the transaction through Paypal? If so, just call them and they can get your money back.

-Chris

I don't know about this situation, but most people, when sending a PayPal gift, have the money in their account to send the gift already.

BULBUS
07-06-2011, 12:17 PM
I don't know about this situation, but most people, when sending a PayPal gift, have the money in their account to send the gift already.

I recently sent a Paypal "gift" and used my cc. I was scammed (see Toby Upton thread), called my credit card, and got my money back. I will never use the gift option to make a purchase or sell an item again.

ferro39
07-06-2011, 03:54 PM
I recently bought an item on this forum that turned out to not be authentic. I paid by Paypal gift and now I have no recourse. I'll be adding the fee to my payments from now on to cover myself in the future.

assuming the seller is a member here and isnt standing behind what they sold, id be very curious to know who it is

ferro39 (at) yahoo dot com

trsent
07-06-2011, 06:19 PM
I recently sent a Paypal "gift" and used my cc. I was scammed (see Toby Upton thread), called my credit card, and got my money back. I will never use the gift option to make a purchase or sell an item again.

Now, did PayPal seal your account or anything for your actions? My concern as I do a high volume with PayPal that if I disputed a gift I would find the money frozen from other transactions.

cohibasmoker
07-06-2011, 06:57 PM
I think if we keep this thread going, perhaps someone at PayPal will see it and bye, bye "gift" payments.

Just a thought

trsent
07-06-2011, 07:48 PM
I think if we keep this thread going, perhaps someone at PayPal will see it and bye, bye "gift" payments.

Just a thought

They will not get rid of gifts - The gift option is useful for family to exchange money and other reasons. They will be monitoring accounts that appear to be abusing the gift option for payments and that I can understand.

lakersmets49ers
10-24-2011, 10:48 PM
I recently bought an item on this forum that turned out to not be authentic. I paid by Paypal gift and now I have no recourse. I'll be adding the fee to my payments from now on to cover myself in the future.

If you pay with your credit card you can file a chargeback with your credit card company and get your money back.

Regarding some of the opinions on here about sellers being greedy for wanting either the payment sent as a gift or the 4% fees covered, I feel there's two sides to every story.


As a seller, most of the time regardless of how good the price is, people are going to offer you less then the asking price and it's fair game to me but all I ask from a sellers perspective is that the buyer helps me make as much as I possibly can if I'm going to work with them to help them spend less then my asking price.

From what i see it's unfair to label sellers as greedy and refusing to even acknowledge other views. personally i feel in the case of those people is that if their interested in the item the seller is selling that they shouldn't be offering anything less then the price the seller has listed because to me if they expect the seller to negotiate the price but refuse to help the seller make as much as he can that their the greedy ones as they want the seller to lower their price but refuse to help the seller out by covering fees or sending the payment as a gift. I just don't think it's right for them to want to have it both ways.

i sell on jerseycentral.org regularly and i'm upfront in my listings about either payment as a gift or cover the fees and have never had a single bad transaction. doing it this way allows me to provide reasonable prices on the stuff i sell.



As a buyer, if I'm dealing with someone I know is legit or I've dealt with regularly, I have no problem sending the payment as a gift and usually that allows the seller to give me a better price. If it's someone I don't know I have no problem covering the 4% fees as more then likely the item im purchasing im getting a good deal on anyways.

EurekaDave
10-24-2011, 11:55 PM
Hey, for two months, I've been tracking a deadbeat seller because of the Paypal "gift." I've got local police, Canadian police, US Postal Inspectors and federal investigators on the case. All this because I thought I'd be a nice guy and send money as a gift. Warning to all. Paypal gift? You're giving away the store.

Dave Silverbrand
das1721@att.net

commando
10-25-2011, 01:18 AM
Hey, for two months, I've been tracking a deadbeat seller because of the Paypal "gift." I've got local police, Canadian police, US Postal Inspectors and federal investigators on the case. All this because I thought I'd be a nice guy and send money as a gift. Warning to all. Paypal gift? You're giving away the store.

Dave Silverbrand
das1721@att.net


Amen, brother. I'll pay the extra couple of dollars.... But I will NEVER again use Paypal as a gift.

trsent
10-25-2011, 07:11 AM
You guys are correct - Why people keep defending the PayPal Gift option are being silly. It is not safe and not worth the money saved if you get burned.

4% keeps being a number mentioned. I don't know about most, but I pay only 2.2% +.30-cents per transaction. If you sell under $3000.00 a month, you pay 2.9% +.30-cents per transaction.

Unless it is international, no one should be paying 4% to PayPal.

Protect yourself and your family and do not be tricked into sending PayPal Gifts for payments. It is against the PayPal rules and you can get burned for every dollar you send if the party on the other end is fraud or disappears.

Protect yourself and use the system correctly. If it costs you a few extra dollars you will find the difference is made up on the protection you have.

lakersmets49ers
10-25-2011, 03:07 PM
i see where you guys who are anti gift are coming from but how is it silly to defend the paypal gift or cover the fees option in some situations?

like i said before, say i'm selling an item for $100, i get an offer from someone for $80, i'm willing to take that $80 price and give them a good deal and save them $20, all I ask in return is that they either send the payment as a gift, or send me $83.20 regular payment so that I don't get hit with anything else on top of the $20 i cut off the price already. I think it's a fair compromise on both sides and it's the least the buyer could do when the seller is helping them out by dropping the price. I don't mind people sending me offers but it's only fair that I don't get hit with paypal fees if I'm dropping the price for them and I give them two options where I don't get hit with the fees.

In a perfect world from a selling standpoint buyers and potential buyers would be willing to pay the listed asking price and not try and haggle and get the price marked down even more and this wouldn't be a problem. fees could be factored in the price from the get go. ex sell a $100 item for $104 shipped and no need to include fees or the gift method.

Still though contrary to popular belief, you can get your money back if you send the payment as a gift. I said it before and I'll say it again, pay with a credit card that's linked to your paypal and if anything goes wrong, you call your credit card company, file a chargeback and your money is back within 24-48 hours.

Another thing that's been neglected to be mentioned is that buyers can be scammers too. I've heard numerous situations of buyers getting their item then filing a fraudulent claim that leaves the seller out of their money and their item.

Buying and selling wise though, 99% of the time if you do your homework on the seller and know who your dealing with you'll have nothing to worry about.

trsent
10-25-2011, 03:12 PM
i see where you guys who are anti gift are coming from but how is it silly to defend the paypal gift or cover the fees option in some situations?

like i said before, say i'm selling an item for $100, i get an offer from someone for $80, i'm willing to take that $80 price and give them a good deal and save them $20, all I ask in return is that they either send the payment as a gift, or send me $83.20 regular payment so that I don't get hit with anything else on top of the $20 i cut off the price already. I think it's a fair compromise on both sides and it's the least the buyer could do when the seller is helping them out by dropping the price. I don't mind people sending me offers but it's only fair that I don't get hit with paypal fees if I'm dropping the price for them and I give them two options where I don't get hit with the fees.

In a perfect world from a selling standpoint buyers and potential buyers would be willing to pay the listed asking price and not try and haggle and get the price marked down even more and this wouldn't be a problem. fees could be factored in the price from the get go. ex sell a $100 item for $104 shipped and no need to include fees or the gift method.

Still though contrary to popular belief, you can get your money back if you send the payment as a gift. I said it before and I'll say it again, pay with a credit card that's linked to your paypal and if anything goes wrong, you call your credit card company, file a chargeback and your money is back within 24-48 hours.

Another thing that's been neglected to be mentioned is that buyers can be scammers too. I've heard numerous situations of buyers getting their item then filing a fraudulent claim that leaves the seller out of their money and their item.

Buying and selling wise though, 99% of the time if you do your homework on the seller and know who your dealing with you'll have nothing to worry about.

Sure, you can get your money back from a PayPal gift if you use a credit card, but you can lose your PayPal account privileges if they determine you are abusing the system.

For those of us who are high volume users of PayPal it isn't worth the risk to lose our accounts.

lakersmets49ers
10-25-2011, 03:52 PM
Sure, you can get your money back from a PayPal gift if you use a credit card, but you can lose your PayPal account privileges if they determine you are abusing the system.

For those of us who are high volume users of PayPal it isn't worth the risk to lose our accounts.

to each their own i guess i respect where your coming from completely.

i've been doing the gift method for about 3 years now, with some deals in the thousands range, some transactions legit where people owed me money and they paid me as a personal payment and marked it payment owed.

this thread is a good read though, everyone has a point with where they stand and where their coming from.

Neely8
10-27-2011, 09:23 AM
If you pay with your credit card you can file a chargeback with your credit card company and get your money back.

You can't fund gift payments with credit cards. They have to be sourced through bank accts. or paypal balances. That being said you have no recourse should you get screwed by sending a payment as a gift.

MarkakisMania
10-27-2011, 09:51 AM
You can't fund gift payments with credit cards. They have to be sourced through bank accts. or paypal balances. That being said you have no recourse should you get screwed by sending a payment as a gift.


That is absolutely not true at all. I have done this as recently as several weeks ago. I have used a credit card through paypal to fund a gift payment. In this case it was to a charitable organization but it can be done.

Jeb

TNTtoys
10-27-2011, 10:10 AM
You can't fund gift payments with credit cards. They have to be sourced through bank accts. or paypal balances. That being said you have no recourse should you get screwed by sending a payment as a gift.

You can fund a gift payment with a credit card, but you will get the 2.9%+.30 fee tacked onto your payment; hence buyer pays the fee upfront. Gift just means no fee for the seller.

Neely8
10-27-2011, 10:10 AM
That is absolutely not true at all. I have done this as recently as several weeks ago. I have used a credit card through paypal to fund a gift payment. In this case it was to a charitable organization but it can be done.

Jeb

Then something must have changed since the last time I tried it like that because the payment would not be processed if funded with my credit card.

Neely8
10-27-2011, 10:17 AM
You can fund a gift payment with a credit card, but you will get the 2.9%+.30 fee tacked onto your payment; hence buyer pays the fee upfront. Gift just means no fee for the seller.

Ok. That is what I meant. When most refer to gift payments it is usually a way to make payments to avoid paypal fees. So to clarify, you still can't use your credit card to fund a gift payment if you are looking to avoid any kind of fees.