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kswarriors
04-11-2011, 04:59 PM
REA's 2011 auction is now available for preview on the Robert Edwards site. I look forward to this one every year since they have great stuff and they only do one per year. Anything out there particularly interesting?

mfsquirrelmaster
04-11-2011, 05:38 PM
I was looking forward to it as well. A little disappointed, not much in the way of game used unless you got a boat load of cash for the Gehrig or Mays.

Sportsislife
04-11-2011, 05:44 PM
Gotta decide if I actually think that's the home plate from municipal but the Nolan Ryan last win plate would be a pretty solid addition.

dirtyla2000
04-11-2011, 06:07 PM
I was looking forward to it as well. A little disappointed, not much in the way of game used unless you got a boat load of cash for the Gehrig or Mays.

You are 100 percent correct! The last couple of years have been weak! I think the way to go this spring is to wait for Grey Flannel due soon! Even The Scp auction is whatever unless you like the Celtics. In which case you will be in heaven!Sick stuff from Red Auerbach!

cliffjmp33
04-11-2011, 07:52 PM
Love the Mo '98 World Series jersey, but out of my price range. Thought there would have been a little more GU stuff, but I guess people are consigning elsewhere more so.

bronx_burner
04-11-2011, 10:25 PM
Just took a look at that "1998 World Series Used Rivera jersey". The Steiner letter shown there is fake. I've seen this type of fake Steiner letter countless times now. The fake letters seem to all have come from the same source, somebody must have made a mint doing this at some time.

http://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/bidplace.aspx?itemid=19662

The tells on the letter are:
1-The use of different text for the description of the actual item from the rest of the text. True Steiner letters have the same text in the body of the letter throughout.
2-The use of the older non-numbered Steiner hologram. The perpetrator of many of these fake Steiner letters utilized those holograms (easily obtainable from very inexpensive Steiner items) and slapped them onto his fake letters and items. Easy to pair up as they are all the same. The later Steiner holos added numbers to match them up.
3-The yellow rail pattern at the top of the letter does not reach the edges of the paper. On real Steiner letters it does.

The letter is a color scan of an original letter with the description text slapped on and then printed and the new hologram added.

I don't have a personal critique for the actual shirt but the Rivera name on the tag appears suspect to me. Regardless, the fake letter is all I needed to tell me to stay away without even having to look at the shirt.

The extra "credit card" style certificate is what Steiner offers at public signings. I'd imagine the person who took this to the signing showed Rivera the paperwork to convince him to inscribe it that way. Because the auto looks completely legit. But the fact that the card is included in the auction actually does indicate it was signed at a later date.

The only question is whether the consignor of this item was duped himself and was unaware of it or if the consignor is the actual creator of the fake letter. But I wouldn't bid more than the price of an autographed jersey on this shirt because thats all it is.

bronx_burner
04-11-2011, 10:27 PM
Just wanted to clarify that when I said different "text" in item #1 of the tells, I should have said font.

bronx_burner
04-11-2011, 10:48 PM
I knew I had discussed these types of letters on here before. I just didn't realize it was this exact jersey that was the topic starter.

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?p=166762#post166762

cliffjmp33
04-11-2011, 11:10 PM
bronx_burner, much appreciated on the info. I recognized the "card" as a signing after the fact, but didn't fully take a look at the letter/jersey pics.

Thanks!

bronx_burner
04-12-2011, 04:41 PM
It appears REA has added a note that they are verifying this with Steiner. Will be interesting to see what comes of it.

I have concerns about the letter that comes with their Jeter jersey as well. While the font of the item description matches the rest of the text on the Jeter letter, that yellow rail pattern does not hit the top, left or right edge of the paper. Just my opinion but I have or have had over 50 different legitimate Steiner letters in my hands, and I have never seen one like that, other than on the faked letters I have seen over the last few years.

sammy
04-13-2011, 02:15 AM
If REA can't confirm the letter, I'm fairly certain they will pull the jersey or make a notation in the description in regard to this matter.


http://www.amazon.com/b?%5Fencoding=UTF8&site-redirect=&node=256994011&tag=colmor-20&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325

BU54CB
04-13-2011, 10:05 AM
Any thoughts on the Barry Sanders jersey?

http://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/bidplace.aspx?itemid=19807

trsent
04-13-2011, 10:29 AM
Any thoughts on the Barry Sanders jersey?

http://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/bidplace.aspx?itemid=19807

It was withdrawn from the auction yesterday, so any thoughts will be for fun since the item is no longer for sale.

BU54CB
04-13-2011, 11:52 AM
It was withdrawn from the auction yesterday, so any thoughts will be for fun since the item is no longer for sale.

I noticed, curious what was behind that? From the part of the signature I could see, I thought it looked a little off. I also thought the NFL logo was off as well. In the photos I could find from 1992, all had the logo higher, centered on the ribbed collar material. I did see logos from 1993 of similar placement. Certainly not saying the jersey isn't authentic, just a couple details that stuck out to me.

sox83cubs84
04-13-2011, 02:13 PM
Any thoughts on the Barry Sanders jersey?

http://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/bidplace.aspx?itemid=19807

The year/month code (DY) actually pegs it to 1991, although that in and of itself isn't a deal breaker. I worry more about the jersey's ASI hologram.

Dave Miedema

trsent
04-13-2011, 02:31 PM
Email I received from Robert Lifson:

Hi Joel! I tried to post on GUU a couple of days ago about the Rivera jersey but I couldn’t get logged on (I think the system has changed since I last posted years ago) and when I tried to register, warnings came up that the security certificate had lapsed and that I should not continue. I’m not a computer guy but when my computer tells me very clearly not to proceed or it may harm my computer, I listen!)

Anyway, I saw your post about the Sanders and I can provide some information about our thought process. The jersey was identified by MEARS as dating from 1991 to 1993, but more specifically dated to precisely 1992 because in 1991 and 1993 there were sleeve patches (which are not present). But we now have the information from the email below (and images) that we have great confidence in and which suggest that this is not a jersey game-used in 1992. MEARS LOA notwithstanding, we are not comfortable that this jersey is properly described, we are not sure exactly what it is, and while it may very well have great merit properly described, based on the information that we have we have no choice but to withdraw this jersey from the auction.

You are welcome to post any or all of this information, and please communicate that we are grateful for any questions and heads-up on any potentially problem items. GUU members perform a tremendous service when potential issues are pointed out to look into. Thank you!

Sincerely,

Robert Lifson
President
Robert Edward Auctions, LLC
P.O. Box 7256
Watchung, N.J. 07069
908-226-9900
908-226-9920 fax
www.RobertEdwardAuctions.com (http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/)

PS We are checking with Stener regarding the Rivera jesrey and letter. They are not the easiest organization to communicate with and frankly it is a little frustrating, but we are confident that we will be successful. We think the letter (and jesrey) are fine but will verify. We have already called and emailed numerous times! We are persistant and WILL get confirmation!

trsent
04-13-2011, 02:36 PM
Robert also sent me a bunch of pictures that maybe can we can use to help him accept or reject this jersey:

42735

42736

42737

42738

42739

42740

42741

42742

42743

42746

cliffjmp33
04-13-2011, 03:35 PM
Found another Getty image for the Sanders jersey. Wish it was a little bigger photo though, but wanted to pass it along.

solarlottry
04-13-2011, 08:20 PM
That seems to be a photomatch looking at the Sanders shirt and game photos. The NFL shield looks exactly like the same placement in both photos and the shoulder repairs also look similar. The repairs, i supposed, could be faked but the shield you would have to remove and sewn on again and this would easily be seen by looking at the inside of the shirt.

This shirt looks like Roger Gibson's Sanders shirt. i wonder what he would have to say about it. i thought his shirt had a team letter and was photo and video matched.

Always buying 1994 49er shirts (and others) and paying up to a 500$ "finders fee" for any 1994 49er shirt depending on the player

Paul
garciajones@yahoo.com

trsent
04-13-2011, 08:37 PM
Just took a look at that "1998 World Series Used Rivera jersey". The Steiner letter shown there is fake. I've seen this type of fake Steiner letter countless times now. The fake letters seem to all have come from the same source, somebody must have made a mint doing this at some time.

http://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/bidplace.aspx?itemid=19662

The tells on the letter are:
1-The use of different text for the description of the actual item from the rest of the text. True Steiner letters have the same text in the body of the letter throughout.
2-The use of the older non-numbered Steiner hologram. The perpetrator of many of these fake Steiner letters utilized those holograms (easily obtainable from very inexpensive Steiner items) and slapped them onto his fake letters and items. Easy to pair up as they are all the same. The later Steiner holos added numbers to match them up.
3-The yellow rail pattern at the top of the letter does not reach the edges of the paper. On real Steiner letters it does.

The letter is a color scan of an original letter with the description text slapped on and then printed and the new hologram added.

I don't have a personal critique for the actual shirt but the Rivera name on the tag appears suspect to me. Regardless, the fake letter is all I needed to tell me to stay away without even having to look at the shirt.

The extra "credit card" style certificate is what Steiner offers at public signings. I'd imagine the person who took this to the signing showed Rivera the paperwork to convince him to inscribe it that way. Because the auto looks completely legit. But the fact that the card is included in the auction actually does indicate it was signed at a later date.

The only question is whether the consignor of this item was duped himself and was unaware of it or if the consignor is the actual creator of the fake letter. But I wouldn't bid more than the price of an autographed jersey on this shirt because thats all it is.

Here is the email I received from Robert Lifson, who talked to Steiner and they verified the letter with the Rivera jersey is genuine. I don't know what grounds were used to call the letter "fake" but it was not fair these accuations were made without first contacting the auction house or Steiner:

Hi Joel! I spoke to Steiner twice today and asked them to send a letter in writing to confirm the authenticity of the jersey and letter (which they did and which appears below). They have clearly expressed that they are certain the jersey and the letter are 100%. In my experience, if they were not certain they would never follow up with a letter such as that which appears below. They expressed that they appreciated my checking with them and very much want to be on top of any issues relating to the Steiner Sports name.

Sincerely,

Rob L

Robert Lifson
President
Robert Edward Auctions, LLC
P.O. Box 7256
Watchung, N.J. 07069
908-226-9900
908-226-9920 fax
www.RobertEdwardAuctions.com (http://www.RobertEdwardAuctions.com)

From: AJ Romeo
Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 3:51 PM
To: info@robertedwardauctions.com
Cc: AJ Romeo; Michael Tanella
Subject:

Robert -

Hope all is well, I wanted to touch base with you regarding the letter of authenticity for the Mariano Rivera 1998 World Series Game Used Jersey

After carefully looking at the letter of authenticity, it is valid.

If you have any further questions please contact me.

Thank you,

AJ Romeo
Steiner Sports | Director Team Partnerships
145 Huguenot Street | New Rochelle, NY 10801
o 914.307.1100 | f 914.632.1102 | m 914.318.9676
aromeo@steinersports.com

trsent
04-13-2011, 08:45 PM
Oops, I misunderstood the pictures that Robert Lifson sent, so please read the email he just sent me below:

Hi Joel! I'm not sure it is clear that the pictures I sent (that accompanied the email below) are pictures of the real 1992 Game-Used Sanders jersey that is owned by Roger Gibson. This jersey can be photomatched to every 1992 home game. Therefore, the jersey that REA has that is authenticated by MEARS cannot possibly be a 1992 Barry Sanders Game-Used home jersey. It also cannot be a 1991 or 1993 jersey due to not having patches on the sleeves (and there are no patch removals). We're not sure what the jersey is, but it isn't a 1992 Game-Used jersey. So we pulled it. I don't want GUU readers to get confused with the images we sent - they are not of the jersey we have. They are of the jersey we wish we had! Hope this helps with any confusion and thanks very much for posting the info.


Sincerely,

Rob L
Robert Lifson
Robert Edward Auctions LLC
www.RobertEdwardAuctions.com (http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/)

sox83cubs84
04-13-2011, 10:03 PM
The Mo Rivera jersey is junk. I don't recall ever seeing a Yankees jersey (or any jersey, for that matter) made by Russell with a dual case NIT. Everything I've seen that I like has been all caps.

Dave Miedema

bronx_burner
04-13-2011, 10:25 PM
I don't know what grounds were used to call the letter "fake" but it was not fair these accuations were made without first contacting the auction house or Steiner

I don't recall accusing REA or Steiner of anything. In fact I'm a fan of both. I have bid with REA and I own many Steiner items. That said, the reason I made my post was for the good of the hobby and for the benefit of anyone who might be interested in this item. But maybe I've been reading the line at the bottom of every page of this forum incorrectly.

While I commend both REA for inquiring about the letter with Steiner, and Steiner for their response, I still will stand by my statement that the letter is a fake. I guess by that, you can conclude that I think Mr. Romeo does not know the letters of his company as well as one might hope. I don't fault him for that in the least. I don't suspect there are too many Steiner employees that have examined their letters in great detail, that know how many different letterheads they have used over the years, that know what kind of paper they use, that know the font styles utilized, that know where certain border trims begin and end. I think its also common to fixate on the item itself and overlook a letter. And I suspect thats probably the exact reason why someone took advantage of the flaw in the system.

The "grounds" for stating my belief that the letter is a fake were listed in my initial post on the subject. The font of the text of the description differs greatly from the font of the rest of the body of the letter. And the yellow rail trim at the top does not touch the edges of the paper. This does not match legitimate Steiner letters. Maybe thats not enough for someone, but its enough for me. Scroll through ebay, type in Yankees Steiner in the search and checking the box to search titles and descriptions, and limit your search to just the Game Used category. You will come up with hundreds of listings which have photos of accompanying Steiner letters. Tell me how many you find that go against these standards. I can tell you that in a quick search by myself, I only found one other, and it happens to match the style of this Rivera letter. I wasn't surprised that it was a high end Jeter jersey. In fact, as I have stated I've come across these letters more than a few times over the years and without fail, they are associated with star Yankees jerseys (Rivera, Jeter, Matsui, Pettitte, Posada etc.). Make of that what you will, but I think its obvious where it leads.

Below is a photo of the nine letters I have currently in my possession with the same letterhead as the REA Rivera. I limited to just examples with the Lecount Place address, though I can assure you that letters with the Huguenot Street address follow suit. I can also assure you that while I have not shown the descriptions of the items for my own privacy, all of the letters have text where the font style matches fully throughout the letters including the description of the items.


http://www.miamihost.net/ims/u/chachi/ebay/001.JPG

I don't know how the inquiry with Steiner was presented. If it was simply a question of whether they thought the letter looked good or if the actual features of the letter were pointed out specifically as to what is questionable about it. Also, REA should verify if the paper the letter is printed on has a watermark. Again, all legitimate Steiner letters that I have come across do.

I am not trying to call out anyone for bad business practices. I think both REA and Steiner are good companies. I don't necessarily think the consignor is at fault either, he may have been duped himself, which is a shame. The bottom line is that I'm certain regardless of who disagrees that there are items that are out there in this hobby that have taken advantage of this flaw in Steiner letters. This is a flaw that seems to have been somewhat lessened by the use of matching numbered holograms on the letters, because they cannot be removed from letters and reused without severe damage. That does not get rid of the items that are already out there using the older holograms to create these fake letters.

Again I made the post to help the collector community and that is also in answer to the second part of your response about why I didn't contact REA or Steiner. All that would have accomplished at best would get this item sent back to its consigner. In posting, it lets the members of this board become more educated on an issue that might be helpful to them in the future. If that is out of line, then I guess I see why a lot of good voices in the hobby are no longer heard from.

trsent
04-13-2011, 10:28 PM
The Mo Rivera jersey is junk. I don't recall ever seeing a Yankees jersey (or any jersey, for that matter) made by Russell with a dual case NIT. Everything I've seen that I like has been all caps.

Dave Miedema

Well, if Dave has issues, I guess more research needs to be done. When did Steiner start working with The Yankees? We all know they got a lot of stuff from years before when they were used and certified it.

Now, this jersey doesn't match the jersey he wore in Game One of the 1998 World Series:

42765

trsent
04-13-2011, 10:37 PM
I don't recall accusing REA or Steiner of anything. In fact I'm a fan of both. I have bid with REA and I own many Steiner items. That said, the reason I made my post was for the good of the hobby and for the benefit of anyone who might be interested in this item. But maybe I've been reading the line at the bottom of every page of this forum incorrectly.

While I commend both REA for inquiring about the letter with Steiner, and Steiner for their response, I still will stand by my statement that the letter is a fake. I guess by that, you can conclude that I think Mr. Romeo does not know the letters of his company as well as one might hope. I don't fault him for that in the least. I don't suspect there are too many Steiner employees that have examined their letters in great detail, that know how many different letterheads they have used over the years, that know what kind of paper they use, that know the font styles utilized, that know where certain border trims begin and end. I think its also common to fixate on the item itself and overlook a letter. And I suspect thats probably the exact reason why someone took advantage of the flaw in the system.

The "grounds" for stating my belief that the letter is a fake were listed in my initial post on the subject. The font of the text of the description differs greatly from the font of the rest of the body of the letter. And the yellow rail trim at the top does not touch the edges of the paper. This does not match legitimate Steiner letters. Maybe thats not enough for someone, but its enough for me. Scroll through ebay, type in Yankees Steiner in the search and checking the box to search titles and descriptions, and limit your search to just the Game Used category. You will come up with hundreds of listings which have photos of accompanying Steiner letters. Tell me how many you find that go against these standards. I can tell you that in a quick search by myself, I only found one other, and it happens to match the style of this Rivera letter. I wasn't surprised that it was a high end Jeter jersey. In fact, as I have stated I've come across these letters more than a few times over the years and without fail, they are associated with star Yankees jerseys (Rivera, Jeter, Matsui, Pettitte, Posada etc.). Make of that what you will, but I think its obvious where it leads.

Below is a photo of the nine letters I have currently in my possession with the same letterhead as the REA Rivera. I limited to just examples with the Lecount Place address, though I can assure you that letters with the Huguenot Street address follow suit. I can also assure you that while I have not shown the descriptions of the items for my own privacy, all of the letters have text where the font style matches fully throughout the letters including the description of the items.

I don't know how the inquiry with Steiner was presented. If it was simply a question of whether they thought the letter looked good or if the actual features of the letter were pointed out specifically as to what is questionable about it. Also, REA should verify if the paper the letter is printed on has a watermark. Again, all legitimate Steiner letters that I have come across do.

I am not trying to call out anyone for bad business practices. I think both REA and Steiner are good companies. I don't necessarily think the consignor is at fault either, he may have been duped himself, which is a shame. The bottom line is that I'm certain regardless of who disagrees that there are items that are out there in this hobby that have taken advantage of this flaw in Steiner letters. This is a flaw that seems to have been somewhat lessened by the use of matching numbered holograms on the letters, because they cannot be removed from letters and reused without severe damage. That does not get rid of the items that are already out there using the older holograms to create these fake letters.

Again I made the post to help the collector community and that is also in answer to the second part of your response about why I didn't contact REA or Steiner. All that would have accomplished at best would get this item sent back to its consigner. In posting, it lets the members of this board become more educated on an issue that might be helpful to them in the future. If that is out of line, then I guess I see why a lot of good voices in the hobby are no longer heard from.

Very interesting reply and neat to see your letters with the one shown in the auction.

My concern is the item was called out without first contacting REA or Steiner. I do not have any problems with REA and Steiner and I have had issues with them certifying items years after they were worn and also with their Muhammad Ali certified items without Online Authentics that PSA/DNA will not pass, but otherwise I believe Steiner to be a good company.

I didn't think you were accusing Steiner or REA of any wrongdoing. I just think before the item is called out Steiner or REA should be contacted.

trsent
04-13-2011, 10:42 PM
Email just came in from Rob Lifson who appears to be concerned about the forum's concerns:

Hi Joel! This is the email (below) sent to Steiner (to more than one contact person). You are welcome to post. We specifically pointed out the concerns about the design of the stationary on the phone as well. We will check the letter for a watermark and also absolutely follow up with Steiner about Dave Medima's concerns as well. We appreciate everyone's input and will do our best to get to the bottom of this!

Sincerely,

Rob L

Robert Lifson
President
Robert Edward Auctions, LLC
P.O. Box 7256
Watchung, N.J. 07069
908-226-9900
908-226-9920 fax
www.RobertEdwardAuctions.com (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/www.RobertEdwardAuctions.com)
 
----- Original Messge -----
From: "Robert Lifson" <info@robertedwardauctions.com>
To: <ereyes@steinersports.com>
Cc: <info@robertedwardauctions.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 12:23 PM
Subject: Steiner Rivera 1998 World Series Jersey Authentication Inquiry
 
To Efrain Reyes:

Re: Questions about the 1998 Rivera World Series Game Used Jersey that appears as Lot #1383 in the current Robert Edward Auctions auction. Here is the link:

http://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/bidplace.aspx?itemid=19662 (http://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/bidplace.aspx?itemid=19662)

We spoke to Mr. Molesso today and he suggested that we communicate with you. On the GameUsedForm questions have been raised about the authenticity of both the jersey and the Steiner LOA that accompanies. Here is the link:

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=42687 (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=42687)

We have no idea if there is any merit to these concerns, but want to address them and make sure that there is indeed no problem with the jersey or the accompanying Steiner letter. Prior to seeing these concerns on the GameUsedForum we were contacted by a collector who correctly pointed out to us that the jersey is not the one that Rivera was wearing in his one home game appearance on the mound in the 1998 World Series. (Note: We have verified this with images and have posted an addendum.) Apparently this is not unusual and jerseys that are worn by players that do not actually play in the game are commonly referred to as Game Used. Please verify. That is our understanding. If this is a Rivera Game Used 1998 World Series jersey as identified by the Steiner LOA, then by definition it has to be the one he wore during Game 2 (the game in which he did not pitch).

Could you please look at this Steiner letter and the jersey and verify the authenticity of both? If these is a problem with the letter, obviously this would be a big deal. If there is no problem with the letter (as I suspect), but a mistake of any kind has been made by Steiner with reference to the identification of the jersey, this could easily be addressed and remedied. If there is no problem with either, that would be great. We just want to verify. Our goal is to protect the integrity of the auction and authentication process both for REA and Steiner.

Thank you for your prompt attention to this matter.

Sincerely,
 
Robert Lifson
President
Robert Edward Auctions, LLC
P.O. Box 7256
Watchung, N.J. 07069
908-226-9900
908-226-9920 fax
www.RobertEdwardAuctions.com (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/www.RobertEdwardAuctions.com)
 
 

solarlottry
04-14-2011, 12:25 AM
Thank you for clearing the issue surrounding the Sanders "gamer" with MEARS LOA, which in this case is entirely worthless and misleading. I have been in contact with Roger and he still has his 1992 Sanders shirt that was worn in EVERY 1992 home game and is photo and video matched. I am unsure how MEARS was able to grade this shirt A7 which is the highest grade a post 1987 shirt can have (i think).

Shirts with flag tags like this one-DY (1991 D- for the year and Y for the month) can and have been used in later years. I have a number of 49er 1994 gamers that have year tags as early as CZ but had the 75th patch added and the shirt used in games played in 94. These shirts have team letters and good use so i know they are genuine.

What is troubling is that this shirt was given a LOA by a company that is considered one of the premier companies that evaluates and issues LOAs. If REA was able to determine that the shirt was not worn than MEARS should have been able to as well, considering that this is their profession. There is always the possibility that it could have been worn for part of a game etc but that is unlikely. Genuine Barry Sanders shirts are some of the hardest shirts to procure and it would seem that you get what you pay for, in that a real Sanders should be 5 figures in the least.

Another reason to always do your "game used homework" before buying anything and not using the presence of an LOA from ANYONE as a reason to buy anything.

Paul
garciajones@yahoo.com
Always buying 94 49ers gamers and paying up to 500$ "finders fee" depending on the shirt!

GameBats
04-14-2011, 07:52 PM
Steiner marks every game used jersey with proprietary DNA which is invisable to the naked eye. REA should send the jersey to Steiner to have the jersey inspected and the DNA verified. The letter alone should not be considered an acceptable means of authentication.

- John

trsent
04-14-2011, 10:11 PM
Steiner marks every game used jersey with proprietary DNA which is invisable to the naked eye. REA should send the jersey to Steiner to have the jersey inspected and the DNA verified. The letter alone should not be considered an acceptable means of authentication.

- John

I received this email from Robert Lifson tonight:

Hi Joel! With reference to GameBats' suggestion, this was our thought as well. The Rivera jersey was already sent to Steiner earlier today. They also allowed us to send the Jeter. It will be interesting to find out what the story is. For the record, the Rivera letter does not have a watermark. It is the only one we have that does not have a watermark. We were naturally very concerned about this fact when we checked this first thing this morning at the suggestion of bronx_burner. We immediately contacted Steiner Sports again both with this finding and the concerns expressed by Dave Mediema, whose knowledge we have great respect for. Steiner Sports was very clear in saying to us that it is absolutely possible the letter is 100% good without the water mark and that some Steiner letters do not have a watermark. The Jeter letter does have the watermark by the way (which is of note simply because the yellow rail trim at the top of the Jeter letter does not go all the way accross). Steiner Sports is looking at both of these jerseys as a courtesy to us and to be responsive to any concerns. We will report their feedback as soon as we hear from them hopefully next week.


Sincerely,


Rob L


Robert Lifson
President
Robert Edward Auctions, LLC
P.O. Box 7256
Watchung, N.J. 07069
908-226-9900
908-226-9920 fax
www.RobertEdwardAuctions.com (http://www.RobertEdwardAuctions.com)

ereyes
04-18-2011, 03:17 PM
Just want to clarify a couple of things about the Rivera Jersey.

1. When AJ Romeo stated that the letter look correct it was only off images sent by REA. Following up on the email posted here, AJ sent REA another email asking for them to send the Rivera jersey and letter to us to verify its authenticity.

2. The Rivera letter is 100% fake. The fonts are incorrect and looks like the hologram was taken off the Russell Athletic tag on jersey and placed on letter.

3. The Rivera jersey is 100% not a Rivera worn jersey. The Rivera on the tail should be in all caps, the name is a different font than the 1998, and it looks like the #2 is a different color then the # 4.

4. As it's true that the yellow line at the top of the letter should go from end to end, we at one point stopped ordering these and were printing them in house. This gives you the following (1) no yellow on the ends because of the margins on a regular pc printer and also no watermark.

trsent
04-18-2011, 03:21 PM
I'm on my mobile right now so I can't cut and paste, buy Robert Lifson just emailed me that they have pulled the Mariano Riviera jersey. Looks like the GUU community may have saved an innocent customer from buying a questionable item.

Also give it up to Robert for working with our community and showing he is concerned about the industry and his auction house selling legitimate items.

trsent
04-18-2011, 08:28 PM
From Robert Lifson:

Hi Joel! See addendum! Thank you bronx_burner! Thank you Dave Mediema! Thank you GameBats! Thank you Joel Alpert! Thank you Game Used Universe!

http://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/bidplace.aspx?itemid=19662 (http://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/bidplace.aspx?itemid=19662)

Sincerely,

Rob L

Robert Lifson
President
Robert Edward Auctions, LLC
P.O. Box 7256
Watchung, N.J. 07069
908-226-9900
908-226-9920 fax
www.RobertEdwardAuctions.com (http://www.RobertEdwardAuctions.com)

CollectGU
04-18-2011, 08:54 PM
Great job by the forum members here. I will note that the inscription handwriting including "game used" is definitely Mariano's when compared to other exemplars, so when and where did he sign this? At a steiner signing? I so, why was he allowed to sign it game used?

Dave

trsent
04-18-2011, 10:54 PM
Great job by the forum members here. I will note that the inscription handwriting including "game used" is definitely Mariano's when compared to other exemplars, so when and where did he sign this? At a steiner signing? I so, why was he allowed to sign it game used?

Dave

Dave, part of your question is answered in this email below I just received from Rob Lifson:

Hi Joel! Several quick notes: 1) The Rivera signature and the Steiner signature authentication card are authentic. 2) Steiner's request to see the Rivera letter and the jersey occurred only AFTER they had verified the authenticity of the Rivera letter on April 13, 2011. This request was made in response to the additional email (below) that we wrote to Steiner on April 14, 2011 after reading additional comments posted on the Game Used Universe forum AFTER we had been already been told the Rivera Steiner letter was authentic by Steiner Sports (both on the phone and with confirmation in writing per our request which was received). If it had not been for the additional GUU comments, we would have naturally assumed the issue was over and the Steiner LOA was good, as we had confirmation of this in response to our inquiry direct from Steiner. When we read the additional GUU comments by Bronx_burner about the stationary and Dave Miediema about the jersey which appeared later, we checked for the watermark on the letter (which was not there) and sent the email below to Steiner. It was only in response to this email (below) that Steiner wrote REA inviting us to send the Rivera jersey and letter to Steiner to verify its authenticity.

We think this is a pretty serious issue. We provided FBI contact information to Steiner, as well as making a report ourselves.

Unrelated, REA is offering a $1,000 reward to the first person who provides us with a photomatch of Joe DiMaggio wearing this 1933-1935 San Francisco Seals Joe DiMaggio jersey graded A9 by MEARS:

http://legendaryauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=60667 (http://legendaryauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=60667)

There are a lot of DiMaggio photos out there. Hopefully this will be an easy $1,000 for someone.

Back to Steiner: We really like what Steiner does. We think they just made an honest error identifying the Rivera letter as authentic. Who could blame them? It's a great forgery. GUU is totally responsible for the uncovering of this issue. REA is grateful and in our opinion you have done a great service for Steiner. Our best guess is that the signing of the Rivera with the inscription "1998 W.S./Game Used/3 Saves" was made in error because the Steiner letter looked good and their guard was down. But this is just a guess. I don't know their systems. It would seem a reasonable explanation. Our April 14, 2011 email to Steiner appears below.

Sincerely,

Robert Lifson


www.RobertEdwardAuctions.com (http://www.RobertEdwardAuctions.com)


On Apr 14, 2011, at 10:41 AM, "Robert Lifson"
<info@robertedwardauctions.com> wrote:

Some additional information which may be relevant:

We have just checked all our Steiner letters and all have the Steiner watermark in the stationary EXCEPT this one Rivera letter that accompanies REA Lot #1383:

http://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/bidplace.aspx?itemid=19662

This suggests to us that maybe the letter (and jersey) are indeed possibly a sophisticated forgery. Would not ALL authentic Steiner letters have the watermark? If this letter does not have the watermark (and we have it here and can confirm with certainty that it does not), then is there any possibility that this letter is authentic?

In addition (and possibly related): Dave Miedema (who is extremely knowledgeable about jerseys and is a true scholar of the field) has written the following: “The Mo Rivera jersey is junk. I don't recall ever seeing a Yankees jersey (or any jersey, for that matter) made by Russell with a dual case NIT. Everything I've seen that I like has been all caps.”

Dave Miedema’s reservations (which have nothing to do with the letter)certainly have to be taken into consideration also, and if there is no reasonable explanation for his observation (and we hope there is), an authenticity issue with the jersey would of course be consistent with an authenticity issue with the letter.

Could you please have Steiner Sports review this? We want to be sure to bring all of this information to your attention before withdrawing the jersey from the auction as of course perhaps there are explanations that only Steiner Sports could provide that is consistent with the jersey and letter being authentic.

In addition, we have had concern expressed about the Derek Jeter jersey Lot #1387:

http://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/bidplace.aspx?itemid=19666 (http://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/bidplace.aspx?itemid=19666)

Would it be possible to take a look at this lot for us? The Steiner letter does have the watermark.

Our goal is to protect the integrity of the auction and authentication
process both for REA and Steiner.

Thank you for your prompt attention to this matter.

Sincerely,

Robert Lifson

President
Robert Edward Auctions, LLC
P.O. Box 7256
Watchung, N.J. 07069
908-226-9900
908-226-9920 fax
www.RobertEdwardAuctions.com (http://www.RobertEdwardAuctions.com)

sox83cubs84
04-18-2011, 11:06 PM
And thank YOU, Rob. Your auctions are as or more above reproach as any in the industry. Your willingness to recieve additional input, and your willingness to act on it when necessary, is a big part of that upper class status.

Dave Miedema

sammy
04-19-2011, 05:37 AM
This is just one of the reasons I have always thought REA was the best auction company around.


http://www.amazon.com/b?%5Fencoding=UTF8&site-redirect=&node=256994011&tag=colmor-20&linkCode=ur2&camp=1789&creative=9325

bronx_burner
04-19-2011, 02:09 PM
Good to hear the final outcome. Glad to be of help. And Kudos to both Steiner and Rob at REA. Also glad that I posted this rather than just contacting REA. I'd like to think if even a few more people are aware of these things to look for, the post was well justified.

trsent
04-28-2011, 11:47 PM
Any thoughts on the Barry Sanders jersey?

http://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/bidplace.aspx?itemid=19807


The year/month code (DY) actually pegs it to 1991, although that in and of itself isn't a deal breaker. I worry more about the jersey's ASI hologram.

Dave Miedema

Dave, while talking to Troy Kinunen today he said that you did the original research for the original letter for this Barry Sanders jersey that was given a MEARS A7 grade.

Just curious, do you remember working on this jersey when you were working for MEARS? I just wonder if you remember if it had an ASI hologram when you originally worked on it if Troy's comment is correct?

trsent
04-29-2011, 02:36 PM
Email I received from Robert Lifson this morning:



From: Robert Lifson [mailto:info@robertedwardauctions.com]
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2011 11:51 AM
To: joel@alpert.net
Subject: Jeter Jersey Follow Up! 100% Good!

Hi Joel! Just a quick follow up on the 2006 Jeter Steiner jersey: We sent this in to Steiner and they have confirmed that the jersey (and accompanying letter) is 100% authentic. Steiner was really very helpful in being responsive to our concerns. I believe they can definitely tell what’s real and what is not (and can also identify their letters with 100% certainty, although they do need to see them in person – giving a definitive pronouncement from a scan alone can be tricky – we’re card guys and we can’t always tell if a card is authentic from a scan alone – same thing).

sox83cubs84
04-29-2011, 05:12 PM
Dave, while talking to Troy Kinunen today he said that you did the original research for the original letter for this Barry Sanders jersey that was given a MEARS A7 grade.

Just curious, do you remember working on this jersey when you were working for MEARS? I just wonder if you remember if it had an ASI hologram when you originally worked on it if Troy's comment is correct?

I do not recall viewing that piece. It's feasible that I did, but I have no memory of it and doubt it.

Dave Miedema