Palmeiro still insists he never used steroids

[3arod13]

Was this a good or bad move on Palmerio's part? I think it was a bad move.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=Amx15QAASq3tBm5Qw9kgHEwRvLYF?slug=ap-palmeiro-peds

[3arod13]

Was this a good or bad move on Palmerio's part? I think it was a bad move.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=Amx15QAASq3tBm5Qw9kgHEwRvLYF?slug=ap-palmeiro-peds

My reasoning for it being a bad move is, he didn't add anything new to the situation that would help his case. Bringing it back up, a week before the Baseball Writers Association of America announces its inductees to baseball’s Hall of Fame, just makes it look worse for him, and makes him look pitiful, IMO.

[Vintagedeputy]

At this point, with all of the ways players are getting caught, if he failed one test and he still swears that he didnt use steroids intentionally, I may have to lean towards believing him.

[cohibasmoker]

At this point, with all of the ways players are getting caught, if he failed one test and he still swears that he didnt use steroids intentionally, I may have to lean towards believing him.

I agree - anyone know why LADY JUSTICE is wearing a blindfold? It's because evidence/justice should be meted out objectively. Seems the blindfold has been removed and people are being judged by the media and public opinion instead of the evidence.

Just an opinion - hope I didn't offend anyone.

Jim

flaa1a@comcast.net

[frikativ54]

I agree - anyone know why LADY JUSTICE is wearing a blindfold? It's because evidence/justice should be meted out objectively. Seems the blindfold has been removed and people are being judged by the media and public opinion instead of the evidence.

Just an opinion - hope I didn't offend anyone.

Jim

flaa1a@comcast.net

The evidence is there - in a failed drug test. Palmeiro is guilty as heck; he must think the populace is gullible enough to believe him.

[Tim+Jeff]

How would you like to be a member of the Hall of Fame voting commitee now? This stuff probably was happening before testing was established.

As stated below, he definately did not help his cause!

-Tim

[cohibasmoker]

The evidence is there - in a failed drug test. Palmeiro is guilty as heck; he must think the populace is gullible enough to believe him.

Drug tests are flawed - I didn't read or hear about a 2nd test given to confirm the 1st test. Was one ever given? Has anyone seen the written document outling exactly what chemicals were found in the test sample? If such a document wasn't seen, who's to say the writer was accurate in his findings?

Hey, I am NOT defending Palmeiro or any of the others. It's called "DUE PROCESS" and we're all entitled to it. Since MLB didn't seem to do such a terrific job in investigating the entire steroid saga, if I were a writer and had a vote, I would base my decision on the "EVIDENCE" instead of rumor or innunedo.

With that said, if I were a writer and the dear Commissioner of baseball came up for induction into the Hall of Fame, I would NOT ever vote for him because of his handling of the entire steroid saga. Although he didn't hit a single pitch or throw and single ball, he failed to safeguard the intregrity of the game.

Hope I did NOT offend anyone - just an opinion.

Jim

[BostonSportsFan]

Drug tests are flawed - I didn't read or hear about a 2nd test given to confirm the 1st test. Was one ever given? Has anyone seen the written document outling exactly what chemicals were found in the test sample? If such a document wasn't seen, who's to say the writer was accurate in his findings?

Hey, I am NOT defending Palmeiro or any of the others. It's called "DUE PROCESS" and we're all entitled to it. Since MLB didn't seem to do such a terrific job in investigating the entire steroid saga, if I were a writer and had a vote, I would base my decision on the "EVIDENCE" instead of rumor or innunedo.

With that said, if I were a writer and the dear Commissioner of baseball came up for induction into the Hall of Fame, I would NOT ever vote for him because of his handling of the entire steroid saga. Although he didn't hit a single pitch or throw and single ball, he failed to safeguard the intregrity of the game.

Hope I did NOT offend anyone - just an opinion.

Jim

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2123113

Reportedly it was Stanozolol a very powerful steroid not available in any type of over the counter dietary supplements or otherwise. I don't recall either ever hearing of a B test sample that was given.

The circumstances around Palmeiro are odd given that he was well over 500 homers and closing in on 3000 career hits, why would he risk taking steroids assuming that this was either a mistake as he claimed or done at the very end of his career in what would end up literally costing him his legacy and a chance to add to already incredible numbers by being forced into hiding?

Around Baltimore, HOF pitcher Jim Palmer who was an analyst for the O's in 2005 claims that watching Raffy in batting practice and taking live pitching during the 2005 season, it was obvious that his bat speed was rapidly decreasing and he was struggling to catch up to fastballs. Palmer hypothesized that he may have been so desperate to reach a plateau in 3000 hits and 500 plus homers that only 3 other men had ever achieved that he was willing to do anything to get to that level.

I am not completely convinced that he is not on some level telling the truth. On one hand, with the rapant apparent use of steroids by various players in the O's locker room during that time period, it would appear that they would have been readily available, yet maybe he really thought he was getting a B-12 shot from Tejada. Why one however would not go directly to the trainer for something like that really makes zero sense. In that regard, it seems almost ridiculous to even suggest that he is in fact telling the truth.

The one other telling factor in this, is that Tejada has never, ever came forward and said something like, it must have been a tainted shot or yes, Raffy was getting B-12 shots from me and something must have happened or anything. I don't recall him ever offering any measure of support for Palmeiro at all which in and of itself is rather telling that perhaps he is just keeping his mouth shut as he knows that this is a whole load of crap.

[BostonSportsFan]

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/24/sports/baseball/24palmeiro.html

Sorry I was wrong, Tejada did deny that it was anything other than B-12

Joe

[Bravesfan]

One look at his career numbers and you can tell about when he started taking steroids.

[BostonSportsFan]

One look at his career numbers and you can tell about when he started taking steroids.


The only problem with that argument is that unless he was juicing and never realized that juicing without hitting the gym is not going to do anything for you, then it does not make sense. Look at photos of Palmeiro from the day he entered MLB to the middle and end of his career and he is essentially the same player. Never got larger anywhere. Unlike players like McGwire, Bonds, etc. he never bulked up. According to people who also saw him in the locker room, he was always a rather soft looking player never muscular etc. If he was jucing and not hitting the weight room, it would have done nothing for him.

[Bravesfan]

He was not the same looking player. At least not to my eyes. I saw a skinny guy become a ripped guy with huge arms.

[Bravesfan]

I want to say also that I would like to believe him. I liked him as a player.
But, I saw him change. I saw him go into rages before for no reason. I believed he was on steroids before he was called to testify before congress. I still believe it.

[BostonSportsFan]

He was not the same looking player. At least not to my eyes. I saw a skinny guy become a ripped guy with huge arms.


We must be looking at two different things. While he certainly gained weight from say 1988 to 2000, nothing looks very different otherwise. Everyone generally gains weight as they age. I know several people who worked in the O's locker room during the later stages of his career with the team and according to them at least, he is or was anything but ripped at least by any measure of comparison to say Bonds or McGwire. I looked back at Getty photos of him over about 15 years and other than a little weight gain, he does not really look any different especially muscular.

Anyway, I really don't know or don't care all that much, I just don't know that he fits the protypical case study where you can take one look and say, wow, that guy had to be juicing he went from looking like specimen A to specimen B overnight. His stats also started to spike prior to Canseco's arrival in Texas around 1990 or 1991 and Canseco arrived in 92. Many people attribute Canseco's arrival of course to when the steroids started to flow in the Rangers locker room. Perhaps he could have had another source who really knows.

[Bravesfan]

Photos don't tell you much. Standing next to the guy will. Believe me, he was very muscular and as a middle aged man I can tell you that it wasn't weight gained from age.
Not to mention that his "roid rages" were no secret in the clubhouse.

[xpress34]

Let me start by stating the following is my .02 on Palmiero.

Do I think he juiced? Or would cheat to reach his goal? Absolutely. Once a duche bag, always a duche bag.

My 1st personal encounter with Raffy was his 1st go round with the Rangers. He was signing at a card show - $3 admission got you an auto. While we were waiting in line, we here people grumbling as they are leaving the Auto table. Turns out, if you gave him a card to sign, he was bending EVERY card in half before he signed so people couldn't go sell their signed cards in the dealers room. JACK-ASS.

2nd time around was 2003 Spring Training at Surprise AZ. The wife and I were the only ones on the rail early and when Raffy went by, she had ONE card to have signed. He blew her off twice there (gave some excuse the 2nd time, then went and sat on the bench for 1/2 and hour while other players signed). Then he blew her off twice again at the batting cages and made another BS excuse that he was in a hurry for a meeting, went around the corner and sat on a bench for almost an hour while other guys signed.

3rd time - in CO during interleague w/ Baltimore. All 3 days... he hid out behind a column until his cab came and then claimed he didn't see us/hear us or he would have signed but now his cab was here. The whole time he was playing hide and seek, most of the rest of the team signed.

If he didn't want to sign, that's fine - but don't insult my intelligence.

Add to that the fact that when he became a FA, the Rangers made him an offer and he told them he was going to test the market (i.e. 'I want more money') so the Rangers made the same offer to Will Clark who accepted it. Then Palmiero becomes all Butt Hurt and calls both Clark (his 'friend' and teammate in college) and the Rangers all kind of nasty names stating that the Rangers left him out in the wind and that Clark 'stole his job'.

Anyway, that is where my Personal Opinion of the man comes from.

Do I think MLB protected him (to a point) for their own gain? Absolutely.

On July 15, 2005 he became only the 3rd player to have 3,000 hits and 500 home runs.

On August 2, 2005 MLB announced he tested positive for Steroids. Barely 2 weeks AFTER he hit the milestones? MLB would not state when the test occurred, but you can bet your @$$ it was well before July 15th.

MLB knew he had tested positive well before, but held back the results because they were making money (as well as the O's) putting people in seats to see him make history. Why kill the sacred cow when he was that close to hitting the historical numbers? After the fact, MLB has no interest whether he makes the HOF or not. Their only interest at that point is in trying to appear above board to Congress. And what better way to do that then offering up a guy who had just hit those milestones and was one of the biggest names in the game at the time?

MLB makes their money AND makes themselves look good to Congress. Win / Win for MLB.

And to address a few earlier comments (per the following article), Palmiero NEVER denied having Tested Positive - he only insisted that INGESTING them was an accident.

I'm sorry? You're a Professional Athlete. How do you NOT know what you're putting into your own body?

Anyway, here's the article:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2121659

As far as the poll, I didn't answer it because there wasn't a 'Who Cares' option.

I will say I think the timing is suspect at best. He's had 5 years to make a public comment, but he just disappeared and hid - just like when I was trying to get his auto - instead of trying to clear his name. He's just trying to get what he wants - again - by trying to sneak into the Hall by making an 11th hour plea.

Again, my .02 - do with it what you will.

- Smitty

[cohibasmoker]

This whole situation would have been closed if MLB would have conducted a better investigation and collected the samples professionally. Shoot, a rookie cop just out of the Police Academy could have done a better job at collecting the evidence than MLB did with its New York City address and high priced attorney's.

We may never know who was or wasn't juicing and at the end of the day, maybe that's what MLB wanted all along? However, to "PROFILE" a player as juiced based on muscle mass and/or attitude would NOT be right either.

Just an opinion - hope I didn't offend

Jim

flaa1a@comcast.net

[BostonSportsFan]

On July 15, 2005 he became only the 3rd player to have 3,000 hits and 500 home runs

Actually 4th Aaron, Mays Murray or others making him #4

[BostonSportsFan]

I don't think at this point it honestly matters what Palmeiro does or does not say. The minds of the voters have been long ago made up and unless some new compelling evidence comes forward, highly unlikely at this point, I don't believe we will see Palmeiro in the HOF anytime soon if at all.

Given the fact that Palmeiro actually did fail a test unlike McGwire for instance who many at the time suspected of juicing but was never confirmed at that time, nor did he ever fail a test. At the time McGwire initially became HOF eligible, there was no confirmation that he ever used steroids only sheer speculation. Based on that Big Mac has only ever obtained what 23 - 24% of the vote.

I would frankly be shocked if we see Palmeiro obtain more than around 20% of the total vote for induction.

To this point, Palmeiro is a rare if not one of a kind example as a high profile player that otherwise would be a slam dunk for HOF induction based on his numbers, however he failed a test confirmed by MLB and subsequently was suspended. No other MLB star calibre HOF level player has ever failed a test and been suspended by MLB so this is a bit of a unique situation. While everyone has their suspicions about various other players including players like Bonds, Clemens etc. coming up for induction in future years, none of those players ever failed a test that MLB suspended them for.

It will be very interesting to see what type of message the HOF voters send to Palmeiro and others that will come up in future years.

[cohibasmoker]

I don't think at this point it honestly matters what Palmeiro does or does not say. The minds of the voters have been long ago made up and unless some new compelling evidence comes forward, highly unlikely at this point, I don't believe we will see Palmeiro in the HOF anytime soon if at all.

Given the fact that Palmeiro actually did fail a test unlike McGwire for instance who many at the time suspected of juicing but was never confirmed at that time, nor did he ever fail a test. At the time McGwire initially became HOF eligible, there was no confirmation that he ever used steroids only sheer speculation. Based on that Big Mac has only ever obtained what 23 - 24% of the vote.

I would frankly be shocked if we see Palmeiro obtain more than around 20% of the total vote for induction.

To this point, Palmeiro is a rare if not one of a kind example as a high profile player that otherwise would be a slam dunk for HOF induction based on his numbers, however he failed a test confirmed by MLB and subsequently was suspended. No other MLB star calibre HOF level player has ever failed a test and been suspended by MLB so this is a bit of a unique situation. While everyone has their suspicions about various other players including players like Bonds, Clemens etc. coming up for induction in future years, none of those players ever failed a test that MLB suspended them for.

It will be very interesting to see what type of message the HOF voters send to Palmeiro and others that will come up in future years.

Well said Boston but please consider this - imagine going into work one day and your employer asks you for a urine test. Your whole career you've done the right thing, never been a problem and you're close to retirement. The test comes back positive and then what? The story peaks and then goes away without any further information or closure.

Time marches on and all everyone knows or remembers is that you came back positive on a "single test" (which has been revised because of its many false positives) and you're lumped in with all the other "suspects". So, instead of being judged for your actions, you're now being judged on personal feelings and that's NOT the way it should be.

Not only did MLB fail the players, they failed the game and its fans. Members of this forum (Boston, express and others) could have conducted a better investigation than MLB baseball did. Why did MLB fail? Who knows but with their hundreds of attorneys, investigators and bottomless pit of resources, one would have thought they could have done a better job with the investigation. The whole affair reminds me of the McCarthy hearings (which by the way netted ZERO arrests) and all we are left to do is "Profile" players who may have been users just because their name appeared on a list.

Just an opinion - hope I didn't offend.

Jim

flaa1a@comcast.net

[BostonSportsFan]

Well said Boston but please consider this - imagine going into work one day and your employer asks you for a urine test. Your whole career you've done the right thing, never been a problem and you're close to retirement. The test comes back positive and then what? The story peaks and then goes away without any further information or closure.

Time marches on and all everyone knows or remembers is that you came back positive on a "single test" (which has been revised because of its many false positives) and you're lumped in with all the other "suspects". So, instead of being judged for your actions, you're now being judged on personal feelings and that's NOT the way it should be.

Not only did MLB fail the players, they failed the game and its fans. Members of this forum (Boston, express and others) could have conducted a better investigation than MLB baseball did. Why did MLB fail? Who knows but with their hundreds of attorneys, investigators and bottomless pit of resources, one would have thought they could have done a better job with the investigation. The whole affair reminds me of the McCarthy hearings (which by the way netted ZERO arrests) and all we are left to do is "Profile" players who may have been users just because their name appeared on a list.

Just an opinion - hope I didn't offend.

Jim

flaa1a@comcast.net

Jim, All excellent points, I agree MLB should have done a better job. I am honestly not sure what Palmeiro could have done, but after the positive test and once the season ended, he disappeared off the face of the earth. If he was in fact innocent, then he should have gone to whatever lengths were necessary to attempt to clear his name including demanding to be retested or have the B sample tested or whatever he needed to do.

While everyone responds to adversity differently, crawing under a rock and disappearing did little to help clear his name. We literally have heard from him about two or three times all via phone interview over the past five years. Nobody seems to know where the guy is at. I guess at the end of the day, that is why many people just assume that he is guilty as charged in addition to the positive test.

[3arod13]

I am honestly not sure what Palmeiro could have done, but after the positive test and once the season ended, he disappeared off the face of the earth. If he was in fact innocent, then he should have gone to whatever lengths were necessary to attempt to clear his name including demanding to be retested or have the B sample tested or whatever he needed to do.

Well said!

[Chris78]

Well the votes are in and he received 11% of the vote. I thought it would be slightly higher myself (closer to 15%), but I knew it would be low.

It will be interesting to see how Clemens and Bonds do when there up in a few years. I figured it would be 40-50% prior to this vote. Now I would think closer to 30% for each of them on the first try.

Chris

[cohibasmoker]

I feel the Sports Writers should be in charge of airport security. Since they can "profile" athletes as "users" without any real evidence, perhaps they can take those talents and make it easier for all of us at the airports.

Just an opinion,

Jim

flaa1a@comcast.net

[psychovb]

Will Clark never put up the numbers that Palmeiro did, but in my eyes he's the true HOF'er. Although he didn't have the numbers to get into the Hall, he left baseball at the top of his game to spend more time with family. What does that say about the man? I know that this post is about Palmeiro, but I think the Hall should consider "character" as part of their voting process. As one member mentioned, Palmeiro is a jack-ass. From my 2 encounters with Will, he's been nothing but a class act.

Clark put it best when he was commenting on Palmeiro's positive drug test:
"You got caught partner!"

[Bondsgloves]

Its funny how the sportswriters think they are God. The majority of them have never picked up a bat in their life. I think the Hall of Fame is a joke that Rose is not in. So the "hit king", Home run king Bonds/ AROD, and one of the best pitchers Clemens , catchers Piazza /Rodriguez , never will be in the Hall. The Hall of Fame will be a big joke. There are a lot of players in already who broke the law, did drugs, and other immoral things. The fact that the media is constantly on these athletes of today that there are more things out in the public. Do you think there are athletes in the football hall of fame that used?

[sox83cubs84]

I feel the Sports Writers should be in charge of airport security. Since they can "profile" athletes as "users" without any real evidence, perhaps they can take those talents and make it easier for all of us at the airports.

Just an opinion,

Jim

flaa1a@comcast.net


+1

Dave Miedema

[mlbforeverhomer]

The voting system is way off, but that is why it is called the National Baseball Hall Of Fame. I believe the HOFers, and a "Past Players committee" should be put together at random and vote on the top players per year. Each committee should be changed per year so there are no biase voters. I dont believe the Baseball Writers Association, however, should be taken out of the voting picture all together. I believe 50% of the vote should be the Baseball Writers, and a split 25%-25% should be the HOFers, and "Past Players Committee". This would insure players that deserve to be in the HOF would not be ignored because of Writers with "chips" on their shoulder.

[Bravesfan]

I feel the Sports Writers should be in charge of airport security. Since they can "profile" athletes as "users" without any real evidence, perhaps they can take those talents and make it easier for all of us at the airports.

Just an opinion,

Jim

flaa1a@comcast.net
I bet the sports writers are more in touch with what is really happening than any of us.