Cal Ripken bat on eBay

[sportscentury]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180016527222 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180016527222)

What do folks think about this bat? I emailed the seller about the length and weight. He replied:

"Length 35 inches
Weight???? worth it in gold. Same as every other
professional model wood bat I guess...No way to
weight it accurately here."

This reply seemed straightforward enough to me (not everyone has a scale that weighs to the ounce). I hesitate because I'd like to know the weight and also because of the criss-cross tape. Does anyone have photos of Ripken using a bat with criss-cross tape? I've looked through my Rip photos and couldn't find one. I look forward to your observations/thoughts.

Reid

[ironmanfan]

I have photographic evidence of Cal using bats with criss crossed tape (though I have to admit that taped bats were not the norm for Rip).

[sportscentury]

Bill,

Thanks. What do you think of this bat? I am inclined to bid on it, though would still like to know the weight.

Thanks again.

Reid

[MSpecht]

Hi Reid--

Here is some food for thought--

Ripken's 35 inch P72 models in 1986 - 1989 were in a variety of finishes, including Natural, walker, Flame treated/burned, Hickory, etc.... the photos seem to look like the bat is unfinished, which appear documented in his records from May 1989 to July 1988....48 bats in all.... P72 35'/33 oz.

There is no record of 35" "none' (no finish) P72 shipped to any promo company until Jan, 1990, when 48 went to Anaconda-Kaye.... more unfinished 35' P72 Ripkens went to various places other than to Cal from mid-1990 forward.

I like the photo evidence mentioned of the taping, and it is probably worth a call to the seller to see if he can provide any additional provenance like a xerox of his old photographers pass, a pic of him on the field, or smething like that...

Good Luck

Mike Jackitout7@aol.com

[sportscentury]

Mike,

Thanks. So it sounds like it may match the factory records, depending on the weight. For the bats that went to Anaconda- Kaye, were they of the 1986-89 marking variety, or of the 1990 variety (with no Louisville Slugger under Rip's name), both, or is it impossible to know?

Thanks again,
Reid

[MSpecht]

That is the "worth it's weight in gold" question, Reid, and there is no good way to tell on this one. 1986-1989 pro labeling was used into the mid-1990's for bats sent to some minor league teams, often with many of the players names that were sold top Anaconda Kaye during the period. As you know, 1986 to 1989 Louisville Sluggers demand thorough research and examination both for professional use and individual player game used characteristics. I would like to see the photo-referenced Ripken tap job mentioned above posted in this thread. Ripken was, as stated, not particularly known for taping, and that would lend alot od credibility to the bat in my opinion, as that would be a difficult thing to "manufacture" given the vintage condition of the tape, the pine tar overlap, etc.

Good Luck, Reid.

Mike Jackitout7@aol.com

[mr.miracle]

Hello Reid:

For what it is worth, I know Alan the seller in this auction was indeed a photographer at Memorial Stadium during the mid to late 1980's. In fact I have seen a picture of him photographing on the sidelines at Memorial Stadium. I am sure he would be willing to show you a picture or two if you asked. Don't know if he has any old press passes but you might ask. I too questioned this bat specifically due to the tape job on the handle. Bill is right, there have been instances where Cal taped a handle I remember notebly on a Rochester Redwings 1981 P72 that sold at Edwards Auctions with a taped handle a couple months back. I was thinking perhaps this was more of a minor league/early career thing. If Bill has the photos of that I would feel better about this bat. Hope that helps. This is a great price for a Ripken if there are no problems with it.

Thanks
Brett Herman
brettherman2131@hotmail.com

[sportscentury]

Mike and Brett,

Thanks very much - I agree on all points.
...............
Bill,

is there any way you could post the photo(s) you mentioned or email it/them to me at rgf2@hotmail.com?

Thanks to all of you.

Reid

[Yankwood]

No bidders. I wonder if we all just missed out on a great buy.

[worldchamps]

The main reason I didn't bid is no one else did....I felt like people knew something I didn't?????

Bill

[sportscentury]

I think it's a nice bat. I just couldn't sink $900 into a bat that I wasn't certain of, though. I was about 90% okay with it. Someone will likely get a good deal, but this one is not for me.

Reid

[MSpecht]

Ironmanfan --

Is there any chance you could scan for the forum or send me a file attachment of Ripken photo reference using the tape you mentioned in this thread? Thanks in advance ...

Mike Specht

Jackitout7@aol.com

[worldchamps]

I can't tell for sure, but it kind of looks like tape on this bat???

[MSpecht]

Thanks very much --- Great Photo...

Mike Jackitout7@aol.com

[mr.miracle]

Thanks for a photo on this, the only thing that raises an an additional question for me and perhaps Mike or another forum reader that might have knowledge in general of players taping bats can answer this question.

1. Cal Ripken was not known for taping bats so this would make the ebay
bat or any Ripken taped game bat much more rare if authentic.

2. The photos in the auction clearly show a crisscrossed tape pattern
that is not solid taping up the handle.

3. The photo provided as difficult as it is to make out clearly seems to
show a solid tape pattern up the handle not criss crossed at all.

Players like Ken Griffey Jr. known for taping bats in a criss cross pattern I am assuming would generally not deviate from that pattern. Do players switch from one type of tape job to another as a general rule or are all of their bats consistent which would make one or the other of the Ripken bats even more of an anomoly? Since the photo of him holding what appears to be a solid taped P72 blond bat is proof that he taped some bats, would it be consistent to think that he would have taped others differently in that criss crossed pattern exhibited in the ebay auction? The other possibility is that time and age have worn some of the original tape off but still does not necessarily account for a criss crossed pattern on one bat but apparently not on the other.

Anybody with any opinions I would love to hear them.

Thanks
Brett Herman
brettherman2131@hotmail.com

[cjclong]

The taping question interests me because I have an Alex Rodriguez black Louisville Slugger game used bat while with the Rangers that is taped and its the only ARod taped bat I've seen. Wondered if this was unique to him on this one or if another player used it. I suppose this issue comes up occasionally like with the Ripken bat. Anyone know of ARod taping a bat?

[sportscentury]

Brett and CJ,

It's a fair question. It really depends on the player. Ripken and ARod (since you brought them up) rarely, if ever, taped their handles and have had the same bat characteristics, for the most part, throughout their careers.

Then you have players like Rickey Henderson who have varied so incredibly that it is hard to keep up (he used bats with pine tar and no tape, shaved handle, pine tar with criss cross tape, pine tar with just tape on the knob, just pine tar, nothing at all, etc.). To make matters crazier, Rickey's bat variations can often be seen within the same season. I know this from going through Rickey's bats at the stadium a few times. They were all 100% real Rickey gamers (it literally would have been impossible for them not to have been real), but many of them looked like completely different players' bats, because the characteristics varied so widely.

You also have guys somewhere in the middle like Andruw Jones. While Andruw is known for usually using prepped bats with the black/white combo cushion tape, his bats have varied somewhat (shaved handle with no tape, plain handle with pine tar, etc.).

The reason I had placed my first post was because Ripken was so regular in his bat habits. If Ripken did use a few bats with this criss-cross tape pattern, they would be rarer (as you pointed out, Brett), but I don't think that would translate into added value in this case as I don't think many Ripken collectors are looking for this type of a Ripken gamer to add to their collections. It did intrigue me, though, as someone who has owned just about every example of Ripken's bats, at one point or another, but had never seen a Ripken bat with criss-cross tape before.

If there are more pics of Ripken using bats with tape, I am sure I'm not the only one who would love to see them posted in this thread.

Reid

[mr.miracle]

Reid,

Excellent points, prior to this bats appearance I had only been aware of one Ripken bat with tape on the handle prior to the ebay bats appearance but since Cal has minor league and major league bats dating approximately 25 years, it would certainly not be out of the realm of possibility that such other examples exist.

I think you are right that since this or any taped bat would not exhibit the common characteristics that are known in Ripken bats that this would probably not be a bat that would be highly valued by collectors. I kind of presented that wrong in my first post. I think we are probably seeing the reflection of that in the fact that the bat on ebay did not get a sniff at $900.00 when other Ripken bats if genuine would obviously bring somewhere aroun $2-$3k. John Taube just had a flame treated P72 from I believe 86-88 that he was selling for $3300 and I believe it sold rather fast. Just goes to show you what the market is doing for solid Ripken bats right now.

I emailed the ebay seller after the auction ended and he seemed to be getting frustrated by all the questions. I explained to him that a Ripken taped bat was a very, very rare item and most likely this was what was holding back the price as many potential buyers were questioning the legitimacy of this bat.

I appreciate the feedback Reid, I forgot about Henderson using all kinds of variations of tape and many not with tape. That is a great example of players changing things up. You are right however, Cal was known for doing certain things with bats and taping them up was no one of them.

Thanks
Brett Herman

[worldchamps]

I wanted to chime in one more thought about Ripken, the player. I saw a great interview/piece on him on some old baseball show. It talked about his batting stance and how it changed a lot. He talked about resting the bat on his shoulder, slinding it back and forth like a violin, and then a more upright postion, and on and on. The point being is he said he would switch it up alot when he was in a slump or felt like trying something new. Would taping a bat be the same thing??? not sure, but it is a thought.

As for the Arod bat that has tape, it is my understanding sometimes taped bats are for batting practice only. I have heard of some players doing this, not sure about Arod though

Bill

[MSpecht]

I may be wrong, but under magnification it appears to me that the tape nearest the barrel end of the bat, above the second "s" in the overlay SportsIllustrated, is criss crossed and not solid. It is difficult to tell.

At any rate, my other thought is that since taping was a very uncommon/
unusual/rare Ripken characteristic, it seems likely that the few examples that may surface would be inconsistent in the application. Also, another possible reason for the use of tape besides "something different to get out of a slump" may be due a slight injury at the time. That may cause a player to use tape in some manner to protect a finger or hand, or to secure a better grip if one hand or wrist was not 100% at a certain time. Just a thought as I think about things I do on the golf course from time to time to cover off slight injuries.

If Ironmanfan has a different photo than the one posted by Bill, it would be great to see it in a post.

Best to all.

Mike jackitout7@aol.com

[sportscentury]

The other very possible scenario that we haven't considered as of yet is that it is a real Ripken game bat that was used by another player (who taped his bats). This is certainly well within the realm of possibility. In my discussions with the seller, he told me that the bat came from someone with the Orioles (a bat boy or someone like that; I don't remember specifically), so it's not like Ripken handed him the bat after stepping off of the diamond. The provenance certainly allows for this alternative explanation.

Reid

[mr.miracle]

Mike & Reid:

Excellent points, I remember talking to the seller months ago when he was selling an 85 game worn Ripken jersey. He told me he had a source on the team but would not reveal who or at what level the source was at. I would imagine that somebody was lifting these items from the clubhouse the way that he talked about it and the fact that he did not want to reveal a source from 20 years ago that one would wonder if the person is even still with the team. Not sure if the source was the same for the jersey and the bat and or the other items he obtained. He told me he had a batting helmet about 6 -8 total bats 2 jerseys etc. It would be entirely possible that this bat was used by a teammate. If I get some free time in the future I may explore whether any Ripken teammates were known to tape bats in that manner and if Ripken was ever known to share bats. I know a bat just sold through American memorabilia about a month ago that was a Ripken model and it said it was most likely turned over to Ripken teammate Floyd "Sugar Bear" Rayford who overwrote Cal's #8 on the know with Floyd's number. Certainly a possibility.

Brett Herman

[ironmanfan]

I had the good fortune last week of working in the Press Box of the Cal Ripken World Series in Aberdeen & had ample opportunity to speak with Cal. One of our discussions was about his game used bats & I specifically asked him about his use of tape. He told there was a time that the quality of the Pine Tar was below the norm for whatever reason and he did use tape on his bats for a bit as an experiment (similar to how he experimented with batting stances). He said that he ultimately wasn't happy with the grip he got with tape and went back to using the pine tar rags. When I get caught up from being out of town for the week, I'll try to post a couple pictures that I have him using taped bats.

[mr.miracle]

I had the good fortune last week of working in the Press Box of the Cal Ripken World Series in Aberdeen & had ample opportunity to speak with Cal. One of our discussions was about his game used bats & I specifically asked him about his use of tape. He told there was a time that the quality of the Pine Tar was below the norm for whatever reason and he did use tape on his bats for a bit as an experiment (similar to how he experimented with batting stances). He said that he ultimately wasn't happy with the grip he got with tape and went back to using the pine tar rags. When I get caught up from being out of town for the week, I'll try to post a couple pictures that I have him using taped bats.


Thanks as always to Ironmanfan for the excellent feedback. That is most helpful as you cannot get any better verification than that.

Thanks
Brett Herman

[sportscentury]

Bill,

Interesting stuff. Thanks for sharing/updating. I've had the pleasure of talking equipment with Steve Carlton a few times in the past and so I can imagine what that experience was like.

Btw, the seller (Alan) contacted me and stated that the bat sold. Someone out there very likely got an incredible deal.

I look forward to seeing the additional photos, when you get a chance to share them.

Reid

[ironmanfan]

As promised, I'm enclosing a picture of Cal Ripken Jr. using a bat with tape. You'll note that the taping "criss cross" pattern is very similar to the one on the bat that was offerred on eBay. This picture is from a 1990 USA TODAY promotional item (although the actual picture they used is from 1989).

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k172/whhp72/ebay008-1.jpg

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k172/whhp72/ebay011.jpg

[mr.miracle]

Below is a link to a current Hunt Auctions Cal Ripken Jr. 1980-83 game used bat that has a taped handle. These bats have proven to be very rare and this is only the 2nd bat from this era that I have ever seen used by Ripken with a taped handle. The other being a Rochester minor league gamer used by Ripken during his 81 season in New York. Seems to provide additional evidence that Cal used taped bats during a couple of stages in his career. I would like to see additional close-up pics of the bat to clearly see just how much use this bat really has.

http://www.huntauctions.com/online/imageviewer.cfm?auction_num=29&lot_num=761&lot_qual=&url_referer=search.cfm

[mr.miracle]

Here is the other one I am familiar with.

http://robertedwardauctions.com/site/bidplace.aspx?itemid=4700

[mr.miracle]

Below is a link to a current Hunt Auctions Cal Ripken Jr. 1980-83 game used bat that has a taped handle. These bats have proven to be very rare and this is only the 2nd bat from this era that I have ever seen used by Ripken with a taped handle. The other being a Rochester minor league gamer used by Ripken during his 81 season in New York. Seems to provide additional evidence that Cal used taped bats during a couple of stages in his career. I would like to see additional close-up pics of the bat to clearly see just how much use this bat really has.

http://www.huntauctions.com/online/imageviewer.cfm?auction_num=29&lot_num=761&lot_qual=&url_referer=search.cfm


Just a quick additional note on this bat. I have asked Hunt Auctions for additional photos of this bat. I did not originally read the description closely as this bat had all the markings of a Ripken P72 Walker finish which is the bat of choice for the most part during the 1980-83 labeling period for Cal. This bat is an M159 which I checked with Mike Specht and he verified that according to factory records Cal never ordered any Walker finish M159 bats during this labeling period. The only factory records listing this model were for natural and Hickory finishes during this label period. Unless I am blind, the bat in question in Hunt Auctions is a Walker finish with a taped handle which we know that Cal did use in very limited roles. In any case, I am awaiting Hunt's reply but it appears that this may be yet another bat from early in Cal's career that does not match factory shipping records. If that is the case it is a real shame as it appears to be a very, very nice bat.

[sportscentury]

Brett,

Criss cross tape PLUS an undocumented finish does not sound like the road I'd want to travel. How comfortable would you feel with it? Thanks for your posts and let us know what you find.

Reid

[mr.miracle]

Brett,

Criss cross tape PLUS an undocumented finish does not sound like the road I'd want to travel. How comfortable would you feel with it? Thanks for your posts and let us know what you find.

Reid


Excellent points Reid, you are right it looks like this is going to be another very questionable bat even with all the Ripken traits present assuming they are which I cannot tell from the photos which are very blurry. Unless something comes up which we don't know now this will be a bat that I pass on.

[mr.miracle]

Just to update everyone on the Ripken GU bat on Hunt Auctions, I have emailed Hunt Auctions a total of three times beginning Sunday 10/29/06 and ending on Monday 10/30/06. It has been more than 72 hours and I have heard nothing back from them regarding the numerous concerns related to this bat not matching factory shipping records. At this point I have no plans to bid on this bat given it does not match factory records. As previously stated by myself, if any auction house is unable or unwilling to take the time to respond to my questions or concerns I will not spend my time or money bidding with them. That is pretty much that.