Tony Kubel 215 S question - special order?

[Neal]

I recently picked up this bat, and I have a few questions.
The seller said that this is indeed a gamer, although it is 33". Kubek apparently used bats a bit longer.

Any chance this is a Kubek gamer, or one that was a special order bat?
Any and all info is appreciated

Thanks in advance.

Here is the barrel:

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgallery/memberfoldersd/1420/gameused/gameused//Kubek_barrell.jpg


the knob:

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgallery/memberfoldersd/1420/gameused/gameused/Kubek_knob.jpg

The initials on the knob obviously are not Kubeks, and I believe the 33 could be what the length is for another player to use.

So what is this thing? :confused: :)

[Neal]

could "C R" stand for cracked? I could not find any Yankee players with those initials by the way.

Thanks

[MSpecht]

Hi Neal-- the liklihood of Kubek using a 33 inch scaled down bat is very slight--- comparing the bat to his H & B orders of the period, he was a consistent 35 inch guy, sometimes 36 inch. The same controversy that hangs over Adirondack C and D series bats (whether any were actually manufactured for, and used by, Major League players) is even greater for S series bats.

Mike Jackitout7@aol.com

[Neal]

Thanks Mike. I figured that there was little chance this was used by Kubek, but the gamble was not expensive.

The bat has some use, and is cracked.

[MSpecht]

Here is an old blog for those who sent emails last night, asking for some additional info and discussion. Note also that Dave Grob has a well-researched article on this subject available on the MEARS site in the archived news section.

"The model number stamped into the knob of a professional model Adirondack/Rawlings bat is usually one, two, or three numbers, followed by one or two letters. The typical letters used by Adirondack in this fashion on professional model bats include A, B, X, and XX, such as appear on the following bats I have authenticated in the past -- Ted Simmons 256A, Garry Maddox 154B, Dick Stuart 113X, Mickey Mantle 113A, and Bobby Bonds 154XX.

Adirondack also used model numbers on professional model bats that start with one or two letters followed by two numbers. This most often occurs when the player's initials appear as part of the model number. Commonly seen letters used in this manner include M (Willie Mays M63), MS (Mike Schmidt MS20), DW (Dave Winfield DW20), RJ (Reggie Jackson 288RJ) and others. CAUTION: Do not confuse this Adirondack numbering system with H & B -- it is OK to have a player's initials stamped into the knob of an Adirondack professional bat, however if a Louisville Slugger has a player's initials stamped into the knob end it is a store bat (for instance, MM4).

There has always been some controversy surrounding Adirondack bats that have the letters C or D following the series of numbers in the model number. Some collectors' believe that Adirondack offered both C and D model bats to both the public via catalogue and to professional players. Others have the opinion that D bats were primarily shipped to colleges for the school's use. In 1991 bat researcher/collector Mike Montbriand stated that he was comfortable with C model bats with provenance, explaining : "I base that on my personal experience with C model bats plus my knowledge that professional ballplayers, such as Harmon Killebrew, own professional model Adirondack bats with model numbers stamped in the knob ending with the letter C." I, also, have personally seen Adirondack bats that are undoubtedly professional model bats that have come straight from former batboys, circa 1950's and 1960's, with model numbers ending with the letter C.

Here is an additional piece of information regarding Adirondack C model bats. In addition to the statement of Mike Montbriand noted above, there have been unimpeachable examples of Adirondack bats in private collections. My good friend Bill Riddell, co-author of the book BATS, currently has a Roy Sievers Adirondack in his personal collection with outstanding game use, appropriate labeling for the period, and vintage marker uniform number (2) on the knob. Provenance ? Bill acquired this bat personally from the Washington Senators bat boy of the time. This Adirondack is Model 282C, and is unquestionably a professional model, game used bat. The lesson here is that with C model Adirondacks, look to the individual game use characteristics and the provenance.

It is interesting, however, that the examples of the C series bats cited and put forth by Mike and Bill above were both from Washington players


The same controversy exists with Adirondack S model bats made prior to 1968.

As both Jim and I have noted repeatedly in responses to questions on this forum and in blog postings, YOU must be comfortable with the legitimacy of any bat you are considering , and what it ultimately comes down to is the probability that any specific bat is what it is purported to be. For my money, the less controversy the better !!! "

Mikejackitout7@aol.com (jackitout7@aol.com)