matt
11-18-2010, 03:59 PM
Since I asked for help in identifying Williams use characteristics recently, I received a number of helpful emails from members and others that I thought might be useful to capture here for others who might need the info. Please feel free to add on to this or take issue with what I have gathered here.
Specs: Almost always 35 inch H&B's. 32-33 ounces, though he ordered 35 and 36 oz bats early in seasons. Lighter ones later (less energy he says). Any 34 inch bat may be flagged as a team index bat by authenticators. He did order some 36 inch bats at times. See Vince Malta's book obviously.
Use: Look for deeply embedded stitch marks and cleat marks. Many teammates comment that his hit marks are very concentrated, as he always got the center of the barrel on the bat. Some bats show use on both barrels and Williams states in his books that often he hit label-down...thus it is hard to rule a bat in or out based on ball mark location. There is a bat rated 9.5 via MEARS with deep marks on both sides.
Knob: in the 50's and later, Williams game bats often had a black 9 in ink or paint with line under it.
Pine tar: He used a mix of resin and olive oil, but fastidiously removed the residue each night with alcohol. Sometimes you see some left near the centerbrand. He was always looking for better grip options and there is one photo of him wearing a golf glove in BP.
Handle scoring: I found a great deal of info on this as a solid, but inconsistent characteristic in the late 40's early 50's. You can see it in the MEARS census, including #251163, and this highly rated and priced bat: http://www.huntauctions.com/LIVE/imageviewer.cfm?auction_num=18&lot_num=298&lot_qual= .
I also heard from Joe Orlando, president of PSA/DNA who wrote about this Williams trait in his excellent book, "Collecting Sports Legends." He says in his email to me that "I have seen a few examples of Williams gamers with scoring and used to own two...one from 1947 and one from the mid-1950s...I think Williams was a guy who scored his handles sometimes and other times did not because I have seen well used, documented gamers with both characteristics." Williams is quoted saying that he remembers carving grooves in handles for his grip in the 40's in one book. I do do NOT think a bat needs to have a scored handle to be legit since only some have it, but I think such a trait is a very strong positive to look for and likely puts the bat in Williams' hands.
Other info I received: Rack marks are often green from Fenway on Wiliams bats. Watch out for any 01's from the 50's, as they were not ordered by Williams personally, though he may have used them. Wlliams boned his bats constantly and one can sometimes see evidence of this scraping process.
That's a summary of what I have learned so far. Anyone got any more data we can add to this thread as a reference? Hope this helps someone later.
Matt
Specs: Almost always 35 inch H&B's. 32-33 ounces, though he ordered 35 and 36 oz bats early in seasons. Lighter ones later (less energy he says). Any 34 inch bat may be flagged as a team index bat by authenticators. He did order some 36 inch bats at times. See Vince Malta's book obviously.
Use: Look for deeply embedded stitch marks and cleat marks. Many teammates comment that his hit marks are very concentrated, as he always got the center of the barrel on the bat. Some bats show use on both barrels and Williams states in his books that often he hit label-down...thus it is hard to rule a bat in or out based on ball mark location. There is a bat rated 9.5 via MEARS with deep marks on both sides.
Knob: in the 50's and later, Williams game bats often had a black 9 in ink or paint with line under it.
Pine tar: He used a mix of resin and olive oil, but fastidiously removed the residue each night with alcohol. Sometimes you see some left near the centerbrand. He was always looking for better grip options and there is one photo of him wearing a golf glove in BP.
Handle scoring: I found a great deal of info on this as a solid, but inconsistent characteristic in the late 40's early 50's. You can see it in the MEARS census, including #251163, and this highly rated and priced bat: http://www.huntauctions.com/LIVE/imageviewer.cfm?auction_num=18&lot_num=298&lot_qual= .
I also heard from Joe Orlando, president of PSA/DNA who wrote about this Williams trait in his excellent book, "Collecting Sports Legends." He says in his email to me that "I have seen a few examples of Williams gamers with scoring and used to own two...one from 1947 and one from the mid-1950s...I think Williams was a guy who scored his handles sometimes and other times did not because I have seen well used, documented gamers with both characteristics." Williams is quoted saying that he remembers carving grooves in handles for his grip in the 40's in one book. I do do NOT think a bat needs to have a scored handle to be legit since only some have it, but I think such a trait is a very strong positive to look for and likely puts the bat in Williams' hands.
Other info I received: Rack marks are often green from Fenway on Wiliams bats. Watch out for any 01's from the 50's, as they were not ordered by Williams personally, though he may have used them. Wlliams boned his bats constantly and one can sometimes see evidence of this scraping process.
That's a summary of what I have learned so far. Anyone got any more data we can add to this thread as a reference? Hope this helps someone later.
Matt