Fake Ichiro Used Bat_same Loser Seller

[gnishiyama]

Dear members,
When I first saw Ebay user: 13alexrodriguez sell this so called "Ichiro
game-used bat Item#220615048505 " http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220615048505&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fshop.ebay.com%3A80%2F%3F_from%3DR4 0%26_trksid%3Dp3692.m570.l1313%26_nkw%3D2206150485 05%26_sacat%3DSee-All-Categories%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1

I just hoped that some unsuspecting collector or dealer wouldn't spend tons
of $$ thinking it was an actual gamer. Well thankfully this bat, which has
absolutely no Ichiro characteristics and clearly shows someone tried to
make it look "used" did not deceive even the most naive and gullible
collector and it sold for a measly $866 which is actually less than what a
signed unused game-issued Ichiro bat would go for. Ichiro's legitimate
signed game used bats easily go for $2500-$4000.

Ok so I figured no harm done until I see the SAME EXACT bat
relisted by the buyer, ichiro51collector, but now comes with a great
story! Its a 2004 bat that was auctioned off after Ichiro gave it to one of
his teammates!! For those that don't know, for Ichiro collectors 2004 bats
are one of the most highly sought after and valuable bats because it was
from his record-setting season.

Anyway the point of the thread is the bat is not an authentic Ichiro game
used bat (although the signature is legit) and this seller is notorious for
adding "stories" to his items to make it more appealing. Heres a thread
about his which eventually lead to him changing his ebay id:
http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=23656&highlight=kaz+sasaki

This seller also has been caught red-handed in the past selling and also
submitting fake "KANJI" signed Ichiro items to PSA/DNA. One of the
authenticators sent me a pic just for sh$ts and giggles. He has also
added a laughable Japanese "ichiro" signature to a previously authenticated
Ichiro english ball and try to sell it as a English/Japanese dual signed ball.
Of course when confronted he denied everything. In his own words
" I'm so mad because I got ripped off!"

I would welcome Mr. Josh Hanson to join this thread and defend the bat.
Smart money he says "this is what the seller told me." And just to add,
Mr. Hanson was once a customer of mine who I enjoyed dealing with
until he would beg me to sell an item I really didn't want to sell by
explaining how much of an Ichiro fan he was only to see him flip on
Ebay weeks later for a profit. Thats his character in a nutshell.

I started the thread so this bat will forever be in GUU archive. I have
attached a pic so this thread can be used for reference if it ever
pops up again either here, Japan or anywhere else.

Thanks,
Goh Nishiyama
gnishiyama@gmail.com

[gnishiyama]

screenshot

[gorilla777]

Yeah, saw this interesting description. Creative little tale....the cycle continues unfortunately. And someone probably will bite too.

[worldchamps]

Out of curiosity how would you know if a bat is from 2004?

[joelsabi]

remember the simple authentication card is for the signature only.

you can verify it here:

http://www.psadna.com/verify.chtml

[legaleagle92481]

So deceptive. Whenever there is an autograph on a "gu" item and a hologram from a respectable company that can be verified you have to verify it. This trick is used constantly it is not even funny. Who cares if the sig. is authentic if the GU item is a fake if you read that description without knowing better it would look like PSA certified that bat's gu.

[philsfan]

http://auction.mlb.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=123942570&prmenbr=33072944&aunbr=124289280

Interesting thread. I see that a similar "clubhouse issued" bat is up for auction through the MLB website for the Tiger's Charity. I assume this bat is also not game used, but the clubhouse issued label doesn't help.

The description does read "Item(s) featured in this auction were obtained directly from the player(s) during the 2010 baseball season." Bidding up to $760 with 2 days left. I'm guessing bidders are positive that the bat is not game used. Any thoughts.

[rj_lucas]

Interesting thread. I see that a similar "clubhouse issued" bat is up for auction through the MLB website for the Tiger's Charity. I assume this bat is also not game used, but the clubhouse issued label doesn't help.

Clubhouse issued? That's a new one. I guess pretty soon we'll start seeing bats described as 'tree issued' since they're made out of wood.

Rick
rickjlucas@gmail.com

[brianborsch]

Clubhouse issued is mlb's way of saying game issued. I won a Longoria bat and it is clearly game ready.

[gnishiyama]

Kind of OT from original thread but here's my take on the MLB authenticated
"team-issued", "clubhouse-issued", "game-issued" and "game-used" items.

Although as both a collector and dealer, I do not like to see items that
clearly show use authenticated as "issued", however I feel its better and safer
than adding "used" to a questionable item. As many know MLB uses a
pretty "safe" method in authenticating items in that they supposedly
only authenticate items as "used" when they see the item come off a
player or off the field and anything else, regardless of the level of
use the item shows, as "issued." However by sometimes doing things out of
the norm by having "used authenticated sessions" such as when MLB
authenticated a group of Yankees jerseys as "used" months after they were
initially used, it adds to the confusion of determining what criteria MLB
really sticks with for "used" and "issued" items.

As for the term of "team-issued", "clubhouse-issued", "game-issued" and
"game-used", although they seem to be quite loose and ambiguous to some,
to me they seem pretty accurate. Here's how I interpret these terms:

"Team-Issued": an item that the team issued for the player to wear at
one point or another and may or may not have been used. "Team Issued"
items are usually, although not limited to, uniforms, helmets, caps which
the team, and not the player, has ownership rights to. Players do not have
ownership rights to their jerseys and for the most part those used jerseys
that players resell for profit were previously pre-ordered by the player or a
representative of the player to be worn and marketed later. I've heard
stories of teams giving the player his uniform from milestones, record-
breaking games, etc., as well as having certain clauses in his contract
which allows him to keep and market his own uniforms but for the most
part the team has the ownership rights to the uniform the player wears.

"Clubhouse-Issued" : is an ambiguous term that MLB uses that I'm not a
fan of but as long as it stays within context I don't have a problem with it.
In the case with the Ichiro bat currently on MLB, I feel its pretty accurate
and "safe." However what can add to confusion is that Ichiro's camp also
orders "gift bats" that are very similar to his game bats but slightly different
that he gives out to charity, etc. So if this "gift bat" is donated or given
out by Ichiro out of the clubhouse it can be "clubhouse-issued" even
though its neither a "game-issued" or "game-used" bat. Since Ichiro, not
the team, owns his bats anything that comes out of the clubhouse from
Ichiro can be determined as "clubhouse-issued." FYI, its difficult to tell if
the bat on MLB is Ichiro's game bat or "gift bat" because they don't show
the knob but the bidders clearly are not taking this bat as a used bat
judging by the current bid price.

"Game-Issued" : another ambiguous term that combines elements from
both "team-issued" and "clubhouse-issued" but I would not have a problem
with it as long as the item is exactly what the player would have used
whether its an item issued to the player to be used in the game (i.e.
uniform, helmet) or a player's game item (bats, cleats, wristbands, etc).
However if (I have never seen this myself) an item that the player never
uses (like the Ichiro gift bats) gets authenticated as "game-issued" I would
see that as a mistake on MLB's end.

"Game-Used": since MLB is so strict with their "game-used" standards, I
only expect to see items that leaves no doubt they were used
such as, but not limited to, a player-issued item that has player's
characteristics as well as the date it was used and later authenticated.
We've all seen MLB mess up every now and then but for the most part
MLB is second to none when it comes to authenticating game used items.
They rely on seeing the item actually being used while other 3rd parties
determine use relying on past data, characteristics, exemplars, photo-
matches and/or "player's or rep's word of mouth (i.e. "game used inscription
and player LOAs" We all know how accurate a players words are right..LOL
(ASI, ESM, Arod)

This is just my lengthy take that I use in determining which MLB
authenticated "issued" item is actually just issued or used.

The bat on Ebay was clearly a "game-issued" Ichiro signed bat that
someone, other than Ichiro, decided to "add" use. For the record, I am not
accusing the original seller 13alexrodriguez of doctoring the bat or any
wrongdoing as I have no evidence of such. He may received this bat as is
and seeing that its an Ichiro game bat with "use" just marketed as he saw
it. However, I have a problem with the buyer reselling the item with an
added storyline given his past history of doctoring his items and lying
about it (and caught) to add value to an item he's selling. Again
>:http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_f...ght=kaz+sasaki (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/../vb_f...ght=kaz+sasaki)

Thanks again
Goh Nishiyama

[rj_lucas]

To my way of thinking, if any item wasn't used in a game or issued/prepped for use but not used, it's a souvenir plain and simple.

Terms like 'clubhouse issued' are, in my opinion, an attempt to blur the lines at best and borderline deception at worst. Doesn't matter if it's an eBay seller or MLB making the claim.

Rick
rickjlucas@gmail.com

[philsfan]

Just to add a bit more confusion to this discussion. I have a game used bat directly fom a MLB team that is absolutely pounded. It comes with a MLB holo and a letter from the team directly confirming it was used by a certain player in 2009 and refrences the exact hologram number in the letter. Here's the rub, the MLB holo does not say "game used and broken on X date", instead it says "clubhouse issued". I spoke to one of the authenticators at MLB and asked for an explanation. He said that sometimes bats are presented to the authenticator from the team as game used well after they have been broken, but since the authenticator did not witness the use or mark it after the game, he can't put a game used holo on the bat. He told me it was likely that the bat was used in a game, but that the authenticator is unable to confirm. Ugh!

[legaleagle92481]

Just to add a bit more confusion to this discussion. I have a game used bat directly fom a MLB team that is absolutely pounded. It comes with a MLB holo and a letter from the team directly confirming it was used by a certain player in 2009 and refrences the exact hologram number in the letter. Here's the rub, the MLB holo does not say "game used and broken on X date", instead it says "clubhouse issued". I spoke to one of the authenticators at MLB and asked for an explanation. He said that sometimes bats are presented to the authenticator from the team as game used well after they have been broken, but since the authenticator did not witness the use or mark it after the game, he can't put a game used holo on the bat. He told me it was likely that the bat was used in a game, but that the authenticator is unable to confirm. Ugh!

Well that is not a bad thing it maintains the integrity of their program. How can the MLB authenticator tell after the fact: 1. Who used the bat? and 2. When the bat was used i.e. in a game, bp, spring training or in the player's back yard.

[rj_lucas]

Well that is not a bad thing it maintains the integrity of their program. How can the MLB authenticator tell after the fact: 1. Who used the bat? and 2. When the bat was used i.e. in a game, bp, spring training or in the player's back yard.

I don't disagree with you in principle but would ask what, then, is the point of MLB 'authenticating' it at all?

In other words, what exactly is MLB authenticating -- the fact that it's a baseball bat?

It seems to me the only purpose served by the hologram in cases like this is to increase the price to the collector.

Rick
rickjlucas@gmail.com

[al3xmac10]

I am the victim of this Ichiro Bat, victimized by Mr. Josh Hanson (ebay id: ichiro51collector).
Mr. Josh Hanson got $1,425.00 from me for the bat, but he never shipped anything to me.

Here are the details:

1) I am Alex from the Philippines, an ebay member and an Ichiro fan. I made several deals in the past with Mr. Josh Hanson, so I thought he was an honest ebayer.

2) The first time I saw this bat was through the ebay auction of Mr. Josh Hanson (ebay id: ichiro51collector). The screenshot of his auction was posted on this thread by Mr. Goh Nishiyama.

3) I was interested in the bat because I thought it was legit, so I contacted Mr. Josh Hanson (ebay id: ichiro51collector) directly to his email, [ichiro151@live.com]. I asked for several pics of the bat. He sent me the pics below:

http://i34.tinypic.com/29f4b4n.jpg

http://i33.tinypic.com/2lw64gn.jpg

http://i38.tinypic.com/2pocsxy.jpg



4) After asking several questions about the bat, and after negotiating the price, we agreed on $1,425.00 via Western Union Money Transfer.

5) On July 3, Saturday, I sent $1,425.00 via Western Union Money Transfer to Mr. Josh Hanson. Here are the Western Union receipient details:

Safeway - Western Union
c/o Joshua D Hanson
200 South 3rd Street
Renton, WA 98057-2031
(425) 255-4151
(253)677-2445
Birthdate: 12/01/1980
Email: ichiro151@live.com

6) On July 4, Sunday, Josh emailed me the following:

[I am picking up the check(s) right now and am getting the run around from everyone involved at the WU branch. They don't have the cash so they're writing me checks. I called my bank and they said that there will be a mandatory MINIMUM 10 day hold placed on any/all WU money orders/checks. I will not mail the bat until I receive notice from my bank that the checks have cleared. At that point, I will mail the bat and send tracking.

Josh]

7) This was a big red flag for me, because it was the first time I heard W/U not issuing cash; they always issue cash.

I have used Western Union several times (both sending and receiving money) before on ebay purchases,
and they always issue cash instantly.
That is why people use Western Union, for INSTANT cash transfer.
We should not have waited 10 days, so I asked him to ask Western Union again.
Becoming very worried about the high-dollar transaction, I also asked him for:

- pics of the [51] on the bat knob
- a special certificate issued by Mr. Josh Hanson, to certify that this is a real Ichiro gamer

8) On July 6, he sent the reply below:

[They gave me checks b/c I got there at opening and they didn't have any cash. I didn't have time to go there later in the day as I had to go to work so I took the checks, brought them to the bank and, as expected, they placed a 10-15 day hold on the checks. I'm away on business now for the next week (I'm on my way to the airport right now). I'll be in touch when I get back; I'll check on the holds (checks) as soon as I get back and let you know the status as soon as I know. I didn't have time to look at the attachment you sent me, but I can assure you that the bat was given to a player for the Mariners Care golf tournament. They don't give out "certificates" at the tournament if that's what you're asking. I bought the bat from the original buyer. He outbid me at the event back in 2004 and sold me the bat last year. I can write up a special cert detailing what I know about the history of the bat. I'll have that prepared and mailed with the bat once those checks clear. Be patient Alex. ]

9) In the following days, I sent several emails to ask for an update.
On July 9, he sent the email below:

[I'm really sorry Alex, but I'm out of town on business and have no access to my laptop that has the bat knob photos you want/need. I simply forgot to send it to you while I was packing for this important trip. I am so very sorry, I know you wanted that photo and I have no way of getting it to you. Anyway, if the checks have cleared by the time I get home, I'll get the bat in the mail to you. Please re-confirm the mailing address that you want the bat to go to. I know that you have always had me ship your items to an Ohio address; I'm assuming this will be no different. Take care Alex. Sorry again for forgetting that photo.

Josh]

10) Again, I waited for several days, but no email from Mr. Josh Hanson.
On July 17, I saw that he had active ebay auctions, so I emailed him via ebay asking for updates, and for the bat knob pics.

Here were his replies:

a) [I sent the pictures of the bat knob already. What "special LOA"?? Why are you writing me through ebay? We did this through email, write me via email. I don't want ebay to see any of these messages and assume we're working on deals outside of ebay (through the ebay system). ]

b) [It now has a sticker over the #51, but this is the handle before it was certified by PSA. This is ultimately what you're looking for... it now has a silver PSA sticker on it (not the ugly white sticker). ]

c) [I went out of town right after I picked up the checks; I had not one message from you when I returned. I will check my email and let you know if the new message goes through.

I had a picture of the knob on my computer 'pre-PSA'. Wish I knew I had that on my computer before I posted the auction as I would have gotten my asking price; if not more. All of the idiots on Game Used Universe went crazy when the bat was listed b/c the sticker was over the knob. I was furious when the bat was returned to me w/ the sticker over the #51. You cannot remove it w/o the sticker leaving a checkered pattern all over the bat so I left it on there. If you know a way to get it off, I'd take it off. ]


11) I then requested a pic of the "pre-PSA" bat knob. He did send me a pic shown below:


http://i33.tinypic.com/2drgyds.jpg


12) At this point, found the ORIGINAL AUCTION of ebay id [13alexrodriguez]. This was where he got the bat, since it had the exact same characteristics as the bat I just paid for.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220615048505&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fshop.ebay.com%3A80%2F%3F_from%3DR4 0%26_trksid%3Dp3692.m570.l1313%26_nkw%3D2206150485 05%26_sacat%3DSee-All-Categories%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1

This was when I thought he was lying, because in the auction of ebay id [13alexrodriguez], THERE IS ALREADY A PSA/DNA STICKER ON THE KNOB. THIS MEANT THAT THE PIC OF THE "pre-PSA" BAT KNOB WAS NOT OF THE ITEM I PURCHASED.

13) Because of this, I sent him the email below:

[Josh, since you did not reply to my direct emails, I am again contacting you through ebay.

I am unhappy with the bat. You said that you purchased this bat from the original buyer last year, but I found out that you bought this at ebay last June 7, 2010 (item #220615048505). Also, you bought the bat already certified by PSA/DNA, with the sticker already on. Therefore, the [pre-PSA] bat knob pic you sent me was from a different bat. You have misrepresented the item, so I do not trust this transaction anymore. Please refund my money; Please send $1425 via Paypal to [alex.macainag@gmail.com]. Sorry Josh, thank you.]

14) Josh sent me the reply below on July 18:

[Once again, I'm not getting any of your direct emails. That's something I do not understand, but I am not happy with the message I just received from you. YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY WRONG as I have not only returned the bat I purchased back on the date provided, he has already relisted and sold the bat. Somewhere along the line, I must have sent you a photo of the wrong bat, but the knob photo I provided IS from the bat that I offered you. You're email makes me out to be a liar. My collection is full of Ichiro's rarest items; everything I own if fully certified and handpicked to ensure that I receive the nicest items available. After the conclusion of this transaction, you will not be able to bid (or make offers) on any of my items/auctions. Figure out what's wrong with you email account as I'm not going to read any of your messages that come through my ebay inbox (from here forward). I accepted your ridiculous, lowball offer on this bat b/c it covered the remaining funds we needed for our downpayment. I was hoping it would be easy, but you managed to make a simple Western Union payment difficult. Thanks Alex. Good luck in the future. You will receive your bat shortly. ]

15) Regarding the bat being returned to the original buyer, he was indeed telling the truth, because I found the bat relisted and sold on ebay on July 12, 2010:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ICHIRO-SUZUKI-SIGNED-GAME-MODEL-BAT-MARINERS-PSA-DNA-/220632325903?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item335eb61f0f


16) But this meant that I just sent him $1,425.00 for a bat WHICH I HAVE NOT HAVE EVEN SEEN.
So I sent him the email below:

[Again Josh, if you are saying the truth, please send me the CORRECT pics of the [2004 Ichiro game-used autographed bat PSA/DNA certified]. How can I complete this transaction with you when I was sent WRONG pics, and I have not even seen what I am getting? Please, please reply Josh, thank you.]


17) His last email was July 18, 2010.
I have emailed him directly at [ichiro151@live.com],
I have emailed him via ebay at [ebay id: ichiro51collector],
and I tried calling him directly at [(253)677-2445].

He never replied to my emails, nor answered my calls.
I have never heard from him again.

******************

I would like to ask for the help of the Game Used Universe authorities and community.
Since I am currently in the Philippines, it will be great if anyone can help report Mr. Josh Hanson to the Renton WA authorities.
I can send scans of the Western Union money transfer receipts, and all of my email correspondence with Mr. Josh Hanson regarding this deal.

I do not want to lose my money to fraud.

Thank you very much for reading this very long post;
Thank you in advance for eberyone's time and help.

Thank you very much,
Alex (alex.macainag at gmail dot com)