More Manning short sleeves on eBay

[Nathan]

This one caught my eye for a couple of reasons. First off, seller 2xmvp18 has for sale what is described as a 2005 Peyton Manning blue Colts GI/TI jersey for $895. Seller 2xmvp18 has a 59 overall feedback (96.8% positive) with an astounding 13 bid retractions in the last 6 months.

Second, our good friend Bernie with ProSportsInvestments.com is selling what looks to be the same jersey...and also sold another one on April 25 to.....2xmvp18. The common thread between these jerseys? Once again, they have the unusually short sleeves that have been discussed numerous times on here.

2xmvp18's sale -- http://cgi.ebay.com/2005-PEYTON-MANNING-NON-GAME-USED-WORN-COLTS-JERSEY_W0QQitemZ160006358674QQihZ006QQcategoryZ249 59QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

prosportsinvestments sale -- http://cgi.ebay.com/2005-PEYTON-MANNING-INDY-COLTS-UN-USED-GAME-JERSEY_W0QQitemZ220005468609QQihZ012QQcategoryZ868 29QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

April 25 purchase by 2xmvp18 from prosportsinvestments -- http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=86829&item=8799714200

Just thought I'd give everyone a heads-up on these; I know we've discussed Manning short sleeves ad nauseum previously, but I continue to get nauseum from seeing them.

[dcrobt]

sure is a connection
i buy all of my jerseys from psi and usually get them auto not to resell but since i had an extra one i treid to sell it on ebay but no one wanted it
ty for noticing
if u can find one with the longer sleeves i'll take all you can get as i didn't realize these were incorrect until i saw the commotion about the white 2002 and navy 2002 i bought from him. i never beat them up and sell them as gu and am totally honest in all my ads.
good luck and keep up the grat work fellas!!!!!

[dcrobt]

ty for telling everyone and giving them the heads up
also
even here, there a lot of jealous posters who have nothing to do but flame and troll people and usually they are poor, young people who could only dream about having some of the items they post about and they try to cause other peolle grief etc.
i will close the auction if you are concerned about my relationship with psi as well.

[dcrobt]

i closed the auction
i'll just keep them
the shorter sleeves were used off the field like commercials and photo shoots maybe qb skills comp in hawaii maybe?
i know they are def not game used and i never tried to claim they were so what was the issue you were writing about?
this is a gu forum not team issued etc?
if i tried to sell them as game worn i could see your point but the prev topics were about someone selling them as game used.

[dcrobt]

the game used with correct longer sleeves sold for 15,000 each
big diff in price

[hblakewolf]

i'll just keep them
the shorter sleeves were used off the field like commercials and photo shoots maybe qb skills comp in hawaii maybe?
i know they are def not game used and i never tried to claim they were so what was the issue you were writing about?
this is a gu forum not team issued etc?
if i tried to sell them as game worn i could see your point but the prev topics were about someone selling them as game used.[/quote]

This sure sounds familiar!

As I noted in a previous post, Grey Flannel has a 1994 Michael Jordan White Sox jersey and pants listed on ther "Upcoming auction Preview". When I surfaced the fact that he never wore a home shirt in 1994 for a game, the description was revised from game worn to a "photo shoot/commercial" jersey.

In the past, when a jersey had an issue, the tag of "Spring Training" issued/worn was used. Is the new buzz-word for a flawed jersey "Photo Shoot" worn?

Just curious......


Howard wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[dcrobt]

see for yourself on getty

[trsent]

As I noted in a previous post, Grey Flannel has a 1994 Michael Jordan White Sox jersey and pants listed on ther "Upcoming auction Preview". When I surfaced the fact that he never wore a home shirt in 1994 for a game, the description was revised from game worn to a "photo shoot/commercial" jersey.

Howard, don't play dumb.

I explained it to you because the staff at Grey Flannel deletes your emails without even opening them because they do not wish to communicate with you personally.

The Michael Jordan item was listed by the companies web designer without opening the attached paperwork. He made an advertisement for their next auction and mis-labeled a jersey.

Since then the item has proper paperwork as previously mentioned to be from an advertisement shoot. No issues here, it comes with a letter from the photographer who took the shoot. In fact, this item was corrected immediately when I contacted Grey Flannel about your concerns.

I will publicly apologize for the fact that Grey Flannel's web designer didn't look closely at an item before putting a tearer about it in their upcoming web preview.

I know, if you can't get a shot in at Grey Flannel your day is ruined, but they did nothing wrong here.

As for the jersey in the original discussion, we all know this is a serious issue that the original seller has used terms to divert the true issues for this and so many of their similar items.

[Nathan]

dcrobt,

I'm not directing anything your way here; I don't have reason to believe this was anything more than attempting to sell what was an inaccurately described item originally listed by PSI.

My beef is with Bernie at PSI, who certainly can't claim ignorance as to what a Peyton Manning jersey looks like. A team-issued or game-issued jersey is the same as one that will see the field/diamond/court/ice, only it never saw the field of play (that means same tailoring, same sleeves, same shortening/lengthening, etc). As has been mentioned here previously, there doesn't exist a single picture of Manning from 1994 to the present day that shows him wearing a jersey with short sleeves.

PSI looks to be doing what many others seem to be fond of doing, which is selling what seems to be a store-bought authentic as being in some way affiliated with the team/player/locker room. My beef is with PSI here, not you personally.

By the way, given how few posts I have compared to the duration of time that I've been around here hardly qualifies me as a "poor young person who does nothing except flame and troll". I'm quite satisfied with the scope of my collection...a Manning would be nice (although I'd prefer an orange and white Manning), but I'm not going to go for something like this myself (or insult anyone else who throws a red flag on the original source of the item).

[BigDiceBuddha]

I'm a bit confused. When you say that PSI is doing what "everyone else is doing" by buying store bought authentics, where can you buy authentic jerseys that are tailored to game day specifics?

[Nathan]

BigDiceBuddha,

I said "many", not "everyone" or "all". There are a TON of people on eBay who will buy an authentic jersey (or sometimes just a replica, or one of the so-called "replithentics") and then sell it as a game-issued or team-issued. By the same token, there are legitimate dealers who sell legitimate GI/TI jerseys (MeiGray, for example, has a ton of hockey jerseys like that and have been tagged and processed as being that).

The reason that those go for higher prices is because people will pay a premium for something that came from the locker room or team. The reason that what sells on eBay is an issue is because there's very little being sold that is legitimately game-issued (defined as "would be used if something happened to the original").

The Manning jerseys are a great example. Peyton Manning, for at least the last 12 years of his career, has worn a particular style of sleeves. Therefore, his backup jerseys would have the same style. What is being sold by PSI is not this style; the sleeves have been discussed at great length here on this board, and there is no evidence to suggest that he has ever worn this style of jersey with these sleeves.

If someone wants to sell a store-bought authentic as exactly that, that's great. That's at least being accurate. But if someone wants to take an authentic replica Eli Manning with lineman sleeves, Brett Favre throwback with lineman sleeves, etc and sell it as a game-issued or team-issued, that is clearly misrepresenting an item in an attempt to garner a higher sale price. I'm no lawyer, but I believe that's fraud.

This is what has become an eBay staple; how many times have we seen a jersey (normally of a star player) sell for a sizable amount when it's listed in the item's description as being "game-issued" or "team-issued"? And how many times has that item in question been nothing more than something that came off the clearance rack at The Sports Authority?

Like I said, if someone's got a legitimate TI/GI jersey and sells it as such, that's great. But if someone has something that clearly is unlike what is worn on the field and they sell it as GI/TI, then I have an issue.

[BigDiceBuddha]

I wasn't saying it defensively, I was just curious...

My question was, how can you find something that is tailored like that in a store? I get what you're saying about the sleeves, but where can you buy a Manning jersey like that that's tailored w/ additional length and tailored sleeves. I've never seen something like that in a store. Whether it's legit or not, I wonder where they are coming from.

[hblakewolf]

Joel:

I find your statement rather odd, "I will publicly apologize for the fact that Grey Flannel's web designer didn't look closely at an item before putting a tearer about it in their upcoming web preview".

Why do you fell it necessary to apologize for a listing error created by the web designer at Grey Flannel? Are you an employee of Grey Flannel or in some way connected with this company? Are you in fact the Grey Flannel web designer?

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[trsent]

Joel:

I find your statement rather odd, "I will publicly apologize for the fact that Grey Flannel's web designer didn't look closely at an item before putting a tearer about it in their upcoming web preview".

Why do you fell it necessary to apologize for a listing error created by the web designer at Grey Flannel? Are you an employee of Grey Flannel or in some way connected with this company? Are you in fact the Grey Flannel web designer?

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

Howard, so you can't admit that you have blown this whole mis-labeling issue out of proportion out of your spite for Grey Flannel? Be a man and stop stirring up trouble for a non-issue. Do you think as soon as I contacted Grey Flannel about the issue you posted they suddenly found a letter from the photographer and covered their tracks like in two minutes since their web designer made a error that didn't affect any bidders or anyone at all because once the description was written the item was properly described?

Where is that fax you were sending me a few weeks ago with the Expos jerseys for sale?

Oh yeah, and no, I do not work for Grey Flannel. If you search the forum you can see I last did some free-lance work for them about eight or nine years ago.

Have a great day.

[hblakewolf]

[quote=trsent]Howard, so you can't admit that you have blown this whole mis-labeling issue out of proportion out of your spite for Grey Flannel? Be a man and stop stirring up trouble for a non-issue. Do you think as soon as I contacted Grey Flannel about the issue you posted they suddenly found a letter from the photographer and covered their tracks like in two minutes since their web designer made a error that didn't affect any bidders or anyone at all because once the description was written the item was properly described?

Where is that fax you were sending me a few weeks ago with the Expos jerseys for sale?

Oh yeah, and no, I do not work for Grey Flannel. If you search the forum you can see I last did some free-lance work for them about eight or nine years ago.

Have a great day

Joel-
Is it actually possible just to address my original question-why are you the mothpiece for Grey Flannel, and specifically, making an apology for an error that their web designer made? If you are not on their payroll, why are you taking this position?

In this case, I sent an email to Rich at Grey Flannel asking how a 1994 Jordan White Sox jersey could be listed as a gamer with their LOA, when in fact, Jordan never played a home game in this outfit in 1994! All of the sudden, you post a response on this Forum with details about your commnication with Grey Flannel. How about having the actual firm, in this case Grey Flannel, answer questions that are sent directly to them? Likewise, a George Brett pre-game jersey was brought into question on this forum. I sent several emails to Grey Flannel, as their LOA was with it, however, no response. Grey Flannel has no issue taking $125. to write a LOA on the jerseys in question, however, refuses to address questions when asked.

I can't help but ask. Is the "Photographer LOA" covering the 1994 Jordan jersey more solid than the LOA that Grey Flannel provided with the Ripken Turn Back the Clock jersey? If memory serves correct, the judge at the Peoples Court episode not only made a judgement against Grey Flannel, she also indicated the LOA from the limo driver was worthless and could not be confirmed.

The Expos jerseys sold inbetween our phone conversation and the several days it took you to get me your fax number.

All the best.

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net

[trsent]

Howard, read your email above and you'll see why I can email or call Grey Flannel and receive immediate answers to my questions and concerns but your email are immediately deleted and not even opened and read.

I am not a mouthpiece for Grey Flannel, I just contacted them about your concerns with the Jordan jersey and I had it corrected for you immediately since you were not able to do it yourself.

You have an issue with a George Brett jersey that I didn't defend, I just told you to have someone else contact them and you felt that was wrong. I know your concerns are genuine, and you wanted to know how they could attribute the jersey to George Brett, so don't say once that I defended this jersey. My issue was that I know the answer will be something that you do not like from them, and I didn't care to contact them myself.

I still have an open challenge to you to find one post where I defended James Brown. You can search the forum to find it, but you haven't and I am still awaiting your public apology for that incorrect statement about me ever defending James Brown because it is an incorrect statement.

Finally, a judge on a television show stating that a limo driver's letter was no good basically means to you that any 3rd party letter from a ball boy or whoever is worthless? So the precedent is set - Anyone who has a letter from someone other than the player themselves means there is an issue with the item?

Again, I have no clue if the jersey on the television show was genuine or not, just making a point about your silly comment. Finally, once again, I am not on the Grey Flannel payroll, I made that clear before. I apologized because no one else will offer you that courtesy and I am very courteous.

[dcrobt]

dcrobt,

I'm not directing anything your way here; I don't have reason to believe this was anything more than attempting to sell what was an inaccurately described item originally listed by PSI.

My beef is with Bernie at PSI, who certainly can't claim ignorance as to what a Peyton Manning jersey looks like. A team-issued or game-issued jersey is the same as one that will see the field/diamond/court/ice, only it never saw the field of play (that means same tailoring, same sleeves, same shortening/lengthening, etc). As has been mentioned here previously, there doesn't exist a single picture of Manning from 1994 to the present day that shows him wearing a jersey with short sleeves.

PSI looks to be doing what many others seem to be fond of doing, which is selling what seems to be a store-bought authentic as being in some way affiliated with the team/player/locker room. My beef is with PSI here, not you personally.

By the way, given how few posts I have compared to the duration of time that I've been around here hardly qualifies me as a "poor young person who does nothing except flame and troll". I'm quite satisfied with the scope of my collection...a Manning would be nice (although I'd prefer an orange and white Manning), but I'm not going to go for something like this myself (or insult anyone else who throws a red flag on the original source of the item).

ok i apologize nate!
thought u were getting onto me etc, sorry
i never had a ut jersey but i did have 2 of his team issued helmets 1996 and 1997 but i traded them away.

[dcrobt]

dcrobt,

I'm not directing anything your way here; I don't have reason to believe this was anything more than attempting to sell what was an inaccurately described item originally listed by PSI.

My beef is with Bernie at PSI, who certainly can't claim ignorance as to what a Peyton Manning jersey looks like. A team-issued or game-issued jersey is the same as one that will see the field/diamond/court/ice, only it never saw the field of play (that means same tailoring, same sleeves, same shortening/lengthening, etc). As has been mentioned here previously, there doesn't exist a single picture of Manning from 1994 to the present day that shows him wearing a jersey with short sleeves.

PSI looks to be doing what many others seem to be fond of doing, which is selling what seems to be a store-bought authentic as being in some way affiliated with the team/player/locker room. My beef is with PSI here, not you personally.

By the way, given how few posts I have compared to the duration of time that I've been around here hardly qualifies me as a "poor young person who does nothing except flame and troll". I'm quite satisfied with the scope of my collection...a Manning would be nice (although I'd prefer an orange and white Manning), but I'm not going to go for something like this myself (or insult anyone else who throws a red flag on the original source of the item).

i've never seen a ti / gi jersey for sale at a store exc on team websites like the j.shockey jersey bernie bought from the nyg big blue pro shop.
these are correct exc for the shorter sleeves like he wears in commercials or off field endeavors skills comp. qb challenge direct tv commercials etc.

[Eric]

FYI-

The same buyer who purchased the Shaun Alexander with the questionable nameplate thegreatpianoman (http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&userid=thegreatpianoman&iid=220005536006)http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/s.gifalso purchased the "2005 PEYTON MANNING COLTS GAME ISSUED HOME JERSEY. ALL CUSTOM TAILORED READY FOR GAME USE." with the sleeves that have been questioned here for $654.

Happened to notice the buyer purchsed a lot of other items last night from the same seller
2005 TIKI BARBER N.Y. GIANTS UN-USED GAME JERSEY PSI $711.13
2005 CLINTON PORTIS GAME USED REDSKINS HOME JERSEY PSI $1,151.00
2005 STEVEN JACKSON GAME USED RAMS HOME JERSEY PSI $910.00
2005 JAKE DELHOMME GAME USED PANTHERS HOME JERSEY PSI $1,200.00
2005 MARC BULGER GAME USED RAMS HOME JERSEY PSI $560.00
2005 TRENT GREEN GAME USED CHIEFS HOME JERSEY PSI $1,025.00
2005 ELI MANNING N.Y. GIANTS UN-USED GAME JERSEY PSI $1,125.00

$7336 in one night, not bad