Who is better Kobe or Lebron?

[legaleagle92481]

After the Lakers latest championship Kobe can now fill up an entire hand with championship rings. He actually wins games in June while Lebron just talks about doing so. There is nothing he has not accompolished so I am going with him and it is not even close. The more I watch it the more I am convinced Lebron will resign with the Cavs for three years, pick his coach and some teamates and then go through this drama again in three years.

[yankees24]

LeBron should not be mentioned in the same sentence as Kobe in terms of greatness. Kobe and Jordan debate would be good.

[joelsabi]

The debate by next year is who is better Kobe or Jordan. Don't even bring up Lebron until he has 3 championships.

[STLHAMMER32]

If we are talking about who has been the most successful its Kobe obviously...but keep in mind Lebron is young and is not apart of one of the best franchises in all of sports Like Kobe. Lebron came in and resurrected Cleveland almost immediately.

If you want to discuss who is the better basketball player it's important to look at each aspect of the game....Lebron is a triple double threat every single night.

Lebron is a better passer than Kobe, he is compared to Magic in this regard and has unbelievable court vision.

Lebron is a better rebounder, he crashes the boards with much more force than Kobe and can out up 10+ rebounds every night.

Lebron is becoming one of the best shot blockers in the league.....no fast break is safe anymore, he is faster than Kobe and has blocked countless layups and dunks coming from behind.

Scoring wise.....Lebron is among the top every year and has really worked on his perimeter game. Lebron takes the ball to the rim better than anyone in the league also but Kobe is the man you want taking the last shot.

Kobe's team can survive without him, we saw that throughout the year...when Lebron leaves the Cavs they are nearly hopeless.

Kobe has more rings adding his 5th last night but he has also had a tremendous supporting cast around him. The league has NEVER seen a player like Lebron, the size and skills could match up well with Magic but Magic did not have the ability to do many of the things Lebron is capable of.....Kobe is modeled after MJ, his game is much like Jordan's so we have seen something like his game before.....MJ is the teacher and Kobe is the student, he has done a great job but Jordan changed the game the way no one else has.....their games are similar but there impact on the game is not even close.....when you think of basketball you think of Michael Jordan.

[3arod13]

Can't compare Kobe and LeBron at this time. LeBron needs more time, and a few rings.

[sox83cubs84]

MJ!!:D :D

Dave M.
Chicago area

[flota89]

If I were picking one or two for my NBA team (if I liked NBA), I would go with Lebron. Like said in earlier posts, he takes his team from horrible to good. Kobe already has a good team.

[gorilla777]

This is not even a contest (at this point) - Kobe has the results that count.

[jetersbatboy]

You can't be the King, if you ain't got no RING!!

[3arod13]

You can't be the King, if you ain't got no RING!!

Does that say "Bling"? :)

[STLHAMMER32]

This is not even a contest (at this point) - Kobe has the results that count.

Well if thats the case then Robert Horry is better than both of them! 7 rings.....How do you judge how good a player is...to me its every aspect of the game. Rebounding, defense, passing, scoring...

Is Kobe a better rebounder....no.
Is kobe a better passer...no
Is kobe better defensively....no
Is kobe a better scorer...possibly

Kobe is a clutch player and one hell of a basketball player....but to me the ring argument does not make much sense....was bill cartwright better than Karl malone or John paxson better than John Stockton? My point is that rings don't necessarily mean you are a better player its just means you are very fortunate and in a position to win one. Kobe has been very fortunate with a successful franchise with a history of winning while Lebron entered Franchise that was a basement team....now he single handedly has rejuvenated the team....

If you put Lebron on the Lakers this year they still win a title, if you put Kobe on the Cavs they still lose....anyone think differently.

[legaleagle92481]

Well if thats the case then Robert Horry is better than both of them! 7 rings.....How do you judge how good a player is...to me its every aspect of the game. Rebounding, defense, passing, scoring...

Is Kobe a better rebounder....no.
Is kobe a better passer...no
Is kobe better defensively....no
Is kobe a better scorer...possibly

Kobe is a clutch player and one hell of a basketball player....but to me the ring argument does not make much sense....was bill cartwright better than Karl malone or John paxson better than John Stockton? My point is that rings don't necessarily mean you are a better player its just means you are very fortunate and in a position to win one. Kobe has been very fortunate with a successful franchise with a history of winning while Lebron entered Franchise that was a basement team....now he single handedly has rejuvenated the team....

If you put Lebron on the Lakers this year they still win a title, if you put Kobe on the Cavs they still lose....anyone think differently.

Your argument misses the point that Kobe unlike Horry, Paxton or Cartwright was a driving force behind the Championships he has won from day one of the season until the final game of the Finals. Even when Shaq was a Laker in his prime Kobe was still a huge reason that the team won.

Wilt Chamberlain was stats wise the best player in NBA history even better than Jordan but most people rank him below Jordan, Bill Russell and one or two other players on the list of all time great players because his teams failed so often in the postseason and often to Russell who had a far, far superior supporting cast and the greatest coach ever behind him. This is even more increadible when you consider that Wilt still managed to win two rings.

In the NBA very, very few alltime greats have not won a ring and they suffer for it when it comes to ranking them the same way NFL QBS do. I watched Marino and Elway their entire careers Marino was a much better QB especially stat wise but yet Elway is ranked higher by almost every expert because he won the big game.

Lebron has failed to get it done under pressure in the postseason time and time again especially this year. He is not exactely alone out there either Jamison, Williams and Shaq are not exactely slouches. The Lakers guys other than Gasol are not even allstars. Odom, Artest and Fisher are nice complimentary players but they are far from stars.

[legaleagle92481]

Well if thats the case then Robert Horry is better than both of them! 7 rings.....How do you judge how good a player is...to me its every aspect of the game. Rebounding, defense, passing, scoring...

Is Kobe a better rebounder....no.
Is kobe a better passer...no
Is kobe better defensively....no
Is kobe a better scorer...possibly

Kobe is a clutch player and one hell of a basketball player....but to me the ring argument does not make much sense....was bill cartwright better than Karl malone or John paxson better than John Stockton? My point is that rings don't necessarily mean you are a better player its just means you are very fortunate and in a position to win one. Kobe has been very fortunate with a successful franchise with a history of winning while Lebron entered Franchise that was a basement team....now he single handedly has rejuvenated the team....

If you put Lebron on the Lakers this year they still win a title, if you put Kobe on the Cavs they still lose....anyone think differently.

One final point Lebron may be the most SKILLED player in the NBA and noone can really argue that but that does not make him the best he lacks that drive that makes Kobe Kobe. Kobe pursues the title every single year like he has never won before and has the work ethic of a fringe roster player.

[STLHAMMER32]

Your argument misses the point that Kobe unlike Horry, Paxton or Cartwright was a driving force behind the Championships he has won from day one of the season until the final game of the Finals. Even when Shaq was a Laker in his prime Kobe was still a huge reason that the team won.

Wilt Chamberlain was stats wise the best player in NBA history even better than Jordan but most people rank him below Jordan, Bill Russell and one or two other players on the list of all time great players because his teams failed so often in the postseason and often to Russell who had a far, far superior supporting cast and the greatest coach ever behind him. This is even more increadible when you consider that Wilt still managed to win two rings.

In the NBA very, very few alltime greats have not won a ring and they suffer for it when it comes to ranking them the same way NFL QBS do. I watched Marino and Elway their entire careers Marino was a much better QB especially stat wise but yet Elway is ranked higher by almost every expert because he won the big game.

Lebron has failed to get it done under pressure in the postseason time and time again especially this year. He is not exactely alone out there either Jamison, Williams and Shaq are not exactely slouches. The Lakers guys other than Gasol are not even allstars. Odom, Artest and Fisher are nice complimentary players but they are far from stars.

Kobe has won 5 nba titles and for 3 of the 5 was not the most valuable player to his team....hence he only has 2 Finals MVP awards.

As far as support, Gasol was incredible this year and the reason for the back to back championships. The Lakers can't win a game win Kobe takes over 25 shots, the stats prove that.

Again, my question is would the Lakers have lost if they had Lebron?

[STLHAMMER32]

One final point Lebron may be the most SKILLED player in the NBA and noone can really argue that but that does not make him the best he lacks that drive that makes Kobe Kobe. Kobe pursues the title every single year like he has never won before and has the work ethic of a fringe roster player.

I think Lebron is better in nearly every category and the stats back that up but at this point Kobe does have the better drive your are correct about that for sure. I mean you can't go wrong with either player. My point is that Kobe is winning championships because of the situation. If you trade Lebron straight up for Kobe it would be hard to say Lebron wouldn't have the 5 rings right now. Lebron has many many years to catch up too lets not forget.

[legaleagle92481]

Kobe has won 5 nba titles and for 3 of the 5 was not the most valuable player to his team....hence he only has 2 Finals MVP awards.

As far as support, Gasol was incredible this year and the reason for the back to back championships. The Lakers can't win a game win Kobe takes over 25 shots, the stats prove that.

Again, my question is would the Lakers have lost if they had Lebron?

Yes, they would have lost with Lebron we all saw how well Lebron played against the Celts this year. Kobe and Shaq were both so valuable to the Lakers in the early 2000s that without either of them the team would not have won one ring. Both players came up huge throughout those seasons and the Finals who got the MVP is besides the point. As far as Gasol he did not win a single playoff game until he got on the Lakers and he played only 65 games out of 82 regular season games this year with except for grabbing an extra rebound and change per night was almost identical to every other year he has had. Yes he played well last night but he disappeared for a couple of games in the series as well. Plus Gasol does not get doubled since they are so worried about Kobe. He was far from the reason they won.

[legaleagle92481]

I think Lebron is better in nearly every category and the stats back that up but at this point Kobe does have the better drive your are correct about that for sure. I mean you can't go wrong with either player. My point is that Kobe is winning championships because of the situation. If you trade Lebron straight up for Kobe it would be hard to say Lebron wouldn't have the 5 rings right now. Lebron has many many years to catch up too lets not forget.

Its like Wilt and Russell. Wilt was much better in every category except Bill was the better allaround defender. Bill has 11 rings, Wilt has 2. Most people say Bill was the better player because of his drive and results. Wilt had the individual records, the scoring and rebounding titles and once even led the league in assists. Bill had Cousy, Sharman, Jones and Auberach on his side and barely scored 10 points a game. If you traded Wilt for Bill the Celts would have won 13 out of 13 championships instead of the 11 out of 13 Bill lead them to. But in sports there are no what ifs and situations are a chicken and egg argument. Would Odom have reupped without Kobe being there? Would Artest have signed there without Kobe being there? They could have went to the Cavs but chose Kobe because they felt correctly that he gave them best shot to win.

[Manram]

One final point Lebron may be the most SKILLED player in the NBA and noone can really argue that but that does not make him the best he lacks that drive that makes Kobe Kobe. Kobe pursues the title every single year like he has never won before and has the work ethic of a fringe roster player.

The reason lebron does not pursue the title every year is because he has no one on his team that is good besides him. He can only carry his team so far. I do not like kobe at all, he is a very arrogant player IMO and can not handle himself on the court. He whines if he gets touched

[gorilla777]

The reason lebron does not pursue the title every year is because he has no one on his team that is good besides him. He can only carry his team so far. I do not like kobe at all, he is a very arrogant player IMO and can not handle himself on the court. He whines if he gets touched

Show me an NBA player that doesn't whine. Paul Pierce deserves an Oscar for some of his work. And as far as Kobe, you will not find any fellow players that don't respect the guys work ethic and drive. I have always put MJ in his own category, but Kobe is damn close. He is one of the best clutch players of all time, top five. Off the court I never cared much for him, but that isn't what we are talking about. LeBron does not pursue a title? That sounds ridiculous.

[gorilla777]

Well if thats the case then Robert Horry is better than both of them! 7 rings.....How do you judge how good a player is...to me its every aspect of the game. Rebounding, defense, passing, scoring...

Is Kobe a better rebounder....no.
Is kobe a better passer...no
Is kobe better defensively....no
Is kobe a better scorer...possibly

Kobe is a clutch player and one hell of a basketball player....but to me the ring argument does not make much sense....was bill cartwright better than Karl malone or John paxson better than John Stockton? My point is that rings don't necessarily mean you are a better player its just means you are very fortunate and in a position to win one. Kobe has been very fortunate with a successful franchise with a history of winning while Lebron entered Franchise that was a basement team....now he single handedly has rejuvenated the team....

If you put Lebron on the Lakers this year they still win a title, if you put Kobe on the Cavs they still lose....anyone think differently.

Actually Kobe has the skills to match or better LeBron in most or all of those categories. He shot horribly last night, but went out and grabbed 15 rebounds.

[STLHAMMER32]

Actually Kobe has the skills to match or better LeBron in most or all of those categories. He shot horribly last night, but went out and grabbed 15 rebounds.

Back up your argument with statistics....Kobe struggling offensively in the biggest game of the year isn't helping your argument. The Lakers outrebounded the Celtics like crazy last night which is ultimately why they lost....Kendrick Perkins was out so Celtics were overmatched on the boards.

Lebron averages more points, more assists, more steals, more blocks per game. Lebron also has more triple-doubles in his career than Kobe.. Kobe has 13 years in the league more than 2x as many as Lebron.

[jetersbatboy]

Lebron stats and skill set for the most part better then MJ. But does that make Lebron better then him NO! Then why does that make him better the Kobe?

[STLHAMMER32]

Lebron stats and skill set for the most part better then MJ. But does that make Lebron better then him NO! Then why does that make him better the Kobe?

Michael is on a different level than both of them because he IS basketball. He changed the way the game was played. He changed the marketing of the game which is the reason kids saved entire allowances to buy a pair of his shoes hoping that it could in some way make them jump like Mike. Kid's on playgrounds stuck there tongue out and wore baggy shorts. Kobe modeled his entire game after MJ and Lebron started playing ball because of him. Michael is the ultimate figure in basketball, both Lebron and Kobe could and never will even try to compare themselves to Mike.

[TheGreat#8]

I was listening to ESPN radio on Wednesday night and I can honestly say it was refreshing for a sports commentator in this case Brian Kenny to be truthful as most of these guys are not.

Kenny said that if the Lakers win he will be hating life for weeks as he just hates Kobe Bryant. He said that he despises Kobe and hates to see the Lakers win as he think that Kobe cares all about himself period and is the most selfish athlete he has ever seen. While that is certainly debatable as there are many, many selfish athletes, it is refreshing to actually hear someone admit this.

WHere I work, literally overnight the entire place became Celtic fans in the finals. I asked a few coworkers why that was when they had hated the Celtics through the early rounds of the playoffs and they kept coming up with stupid excuses like the Lakers win too much, (hello Boston has 17 championships to 16 now for LA) and to a person nobody would admit what I believe to be the problem and that is Kobe.

Success breeds contempt as the saying goes and Kobe is I believe the most polarizing athlete playing any sport today. People either love him or absolutely cannot stand him or hate him. In fact, people hate him so bad that they are blinded by his greatness and that is a shame.

While I never rooted for the Bulls during Jordan's run, I certainly could appreciate his greatness. It is funny that the same people that loved Jordan and actively pulled for him and the Bulls criticize Kobe for the way he acts and plays which in many ways really is a carbon copy of MJ. MJ was as selfish and arrogant and still is to this day as any athlete who ever walked the earth (see his HOF speech last year) yet Kobe is villified because of the way that he carries himself?

I heard Kobe being criticized for ripping Shaq last night. Perhaps everyone fails to remember when Shaq won #4 in 06 how has told Kobe through the media how does my blank taste?

Bottom line is that athletes like Kobe come around once in a lifetime. He is not Jordan, will never be Jordan but that does nothing to diminish his greatness. Just like people saying he cannot be compared to MJ because he has 5 titles and not 6. Well, he turns 32 in August and with this team could make a run at 1 2 or even 3 more titles depending on what the Lakers are able to do with role players. What if he wins 7 or 8 then what will the argument be.

This same sad stupid argument how Shaq was the NBA finals MVP in the 1st three and Kobe was his sidekick is ridiculous. Rick Bucher was on ESPN Radio three nights ago and said quite simply that if anyone really believes that the Lakers would have won one title without Kobe then they are absolutely idiots. He is correct as good as Shaq was, Kobe was no Pippen to Jordan, he was nearly the equal of Shaq and the Lakers would never, ever have won any of those titles without him period.

I personally would love to see him get 2 or 3 more and then see what stupid excuses people can dream up next as to why he can never, ever be compared to Michael Jordan, or Magic, Larry, Bill Russell, Kareem etc. Of course as I read elsewhere and this is true, people are so blinded with hatred toward Kobe that it would not matter what he did. If he averaged 40 points a game and had 8 rebound, 8 assist and the Lakers swept through the playoffs in 16 straight games three straight years, people would still say you cannot compare him to MJ.

I watched every single Bulls game over the 12 - 15 years of Michaels career at least in the playoffs. There were more than a few times when Michael had to get bailed out by his teammates. Go ahead and look up the stats, they do not lie. Why is that not held against him? DOn't get me wrong I don't hate Jordan he is the best that ever played, but people have cannonized the man and act like he never, ever had a bad game scored 50 a game in the playoffs and won every game he ever played. Revisionist historians just cannot stand the idea that someone might possibly be nearly his equal for whatever reason.

[STLHAMMER32]

I was listening to ESPN radio on Wednesday night and I can honestly say it was refreshing for a sports commentator in this case Brian Kenny to be truthful as most of these guys are not.

Kenny said that if the Lakers win he will be hating life for weeks as he just hates Kobe Bryant. He said that he despises Kobe and hates to see the Lakers win as he think that Kobe cares all about himself period and is the most selfish athlete he has ever seen. While that is certainly debatable as there are many, many selfish athletes, it is refreshing to actually hear someone admit this.

WHere I work, literally overnight the entire place became Celtic fans in the finals. I asked a few coworkers why that was when they had hated the Celtics through the early rounds of the playoffs and they kept coming up with stupid excuses like the Lakers win too much, (hello Boston has 17 championships to 16 now for LA) and to a person nobody would admit what I believe to be the problem and that is Kobe.

Success breeds contempt as the saying goes and Kobe is I believe the most polarizing athlete playing any sport today. People either love him or absolutely cannot stand him or hate him. In fact, people hate him so bad that they are blinded by his greatness and that is a shame.

While I never rooted for the Bulls during Jordan's run, I certainly could appreciate his greatness. It is funny that the same people that loved Jordan and actively pulled for him and the Bulls criticize Kobe for the way he acts and plays which in many ways really is a carbon copy of MJ. MJ was as selfish and arrogant and still is to this day as any athlete who ever walked the earth (see his HOF speech last year) yet Kobe is villified because of the way that he carries himself?

I heard Kobe being criticized for ripping Shaq last night. Perhaps everyone fails to remember when Shaq won #4 in 06 how has told Kobe through the media how does my blank taste?

Bottom line is that athletes like Kobe come around once in a lifetime. He is not Jordan, will never be Jordan but that does nothing to diminish his greatness. Just like people saying he cannot be compared to MJ because he has 5 titles and not 6. Well, he turns 32 in August and with this team could make a run at 1 2 or even 3 more titles depending on what the Lakers are able to do with role players. What if he wins 7 or 8 then what will the argument be.

This same sad stupid argument how Shaq was the NBA finals MVP in the 1st three and Kobe was his sidekick is ridiculous. Rick Bucher was on ESPN Radio three nights ago and said quite simply that if anyone really believes that the Lakers would have won one title without Kobe then they are absolutely idiots. He is correct as good as Shaq was, Kobe was no Pippen to Jordan, he was nearly the equal of Shaq and the Lakers would never, ever have won any of those titles without him period.

I personally would love to see him get 2 or 3 more and then see what stupid excuses people can dream up next as to why he can never, ever be compared to Michael Jordan, or Magic, Larry, Bill Russell, Kareem etc. Of course as I read elsewhere and this is true, people are so blinded with hatred toward Kobe that it would not matter what he did. If he averaged 40 points a game and had 8 rebound, 8 assist and the Lakers swept through the playoffs in 16 straight games three straight years, people would still say you cannot compare him to MJ.

I watched every single Bulls game over the 12 - 15 years of Michaels career at least in the playoffs. There were more than a few times when Michael had to get bailed out by his teammates. Go ahead and look up the stats, they do not lie. Why is that not held against him? DOn't get me wrong I don't hate Jordan he is the best that ever played, but people have cannonized the man and act like he never, ever had a bad game scored 50 a game in the playoffs and won every game he ever played. Revisionist historians just cannot stand the idea that someone might possibly be nearly his equal for whatever reason.


I don't hate Kobe, I respect his game and I think he is among the top 25 to ever play. What the question was to begin with was who was better Kobe or Lebron. I can honestly say Lebron is better at most aspects of the game and the statistics back that up. Lebron is well rounded and like I said earlier is a triple double threat every night. Who is more successful at this point, Kobe. The better player, I guess that depends on how you judge that....to me the better all around player is Lebron but that is my opinion. Lebron only has 6 years in the league and what he has done so far is incredible, the rings will come for him in time.

[gorilla777]

Back up your argument with statistics....Kobe struggling offensively in the biggest game of the year isn't helping your argument. The Lakers outrebounded the Celtics like crazy last night which is ultimately why they lost....Kendrick Perkins was out so Celtics were overmatched on the boards.

Lebron averages more points, more assists, more steals, more blocks per game. Lebron also has more triple-doubles in his career than Kobe.. Kobe has 13 years in the league more than 2x as many as Lebron.

The majority of the NBA players would choose Kobe to take the last shot or defend the best player on the other team.
So your argument is that LeBron is better in stats? That does not tell the whole story. Kobe has done what he had to beat the opponent. LeBron has failed when he has his big moments.You point out one game? Please.... Scoreboard-that is the argument ultimately.

[TheGreat#8]

Actually, Lebron just finished his 7th full season in the league and Kobe his 14th so Lebron has played roughly half of Kobe's career.

In terms of stats, they tell far from the whole story. I think the one thing that people fail to realize and perhaps Kobe does, is that 82 game seasons and 4 rounds of playoffs will really wear you down. Kobe has been in 7 NBA finals half of his years in the league and has gone into the playoffs every other year. I believe that if Kobe at this stage really cared about the regular season, he could average easily 7 or 8 assist a game and probably another couple of rebounds. I think what he and many other superstars and borderline star players realize such as the Celtics, it is not all about having the NBA's best record. Look what happened to the LeBron's the last two years, best NBA record and home early in the playoffs. LeBron's supporters keep throwing this out there that he has to do that for his team to win. Why? If he scaled it back a bit and say they won 10 less games, they would still make the playoffs and like the Lakers or Celtics and even the Spurs and the Bulls who did not always have the best record and famous 6th seed Rockets in 94, perhaps he would have something left in the tank in May and June when the real basketball starts.

Kobe realizes that the only thing that matters to his legacy is rings at this point in his career. Let LeBron have his regular season MVP's who cares if he gets 10 of them, the one that matters is the finals MVP and Kobe knows that and so do all the other great champions. Teams like the Lakers, Celtics, Rockets, Spurs and Bulls did not always have to have the league's best record they knew how to win on the road when it counted. LeBron needs to figure that out. Kobe already has as even a player like LeBron cannot keep killing himself to put up big numbers ever night for 82 plus games a season 100 plus if you factor a deep playoff run as he will hit a wall at some point as he actually seemingly has done several times in the past couple of years.

Why is he not as good as Kobe, it is simple, Kobe knows what is important and once LeBron figures out that he does not have to win all the awards, have the biggest stats and win every regular season game perhaps he will get there to. Nobody remembers who won the most regular season games, it is all about the ring at the end.

[gorilla777]

And rings for LeBron? He better get started. The guys start wearing down at a younger age nowadays when they enter out of HS, since there is only so much tread wear in their legs.

[STLHAMMER32]

The majority of the NBA players would choose Kobe to take the last shot or defend the best player on the other team.
So your argument is that LeBron is better in stats? That does not tell the whole story. Kobe has done what he had to beat the opponent. LeBron has failed when he has his big moments.You point out one game? Please.... Scoreboard-that is the argument ultimately.

Kobe has had 2x as many seasons in the league and been apart of one of the best franchises in all of sports...of course he will have more rings than Lebron at this point.

Do you think Kobe is a better passer than Lebron? Do you think he is a better rebounder than Lebron? Do you think he is feared on defense more than Lebron.....you can see the fear and how players adjust there shots on fast breaks and drives to the whole because they don't want to have the ball rejected into the 8th row of the stands and be on sportscenter.....

I am looking at this from an unbiased point of view I am just a fan of the game and looking at what I see. You may not agree with me and thats fine, I'm just looking at it from an overall player view. Comparing rings is tough like I said because if Lebron and Kobe changed shoes I think Lakers still win the 5 titles Kobe was a part of.

[STLHAMMER32]

Kobe has had 2x as many seasons in the league and been apart of one of the best franchises in all of sports...of course he will have more rings than Lebron at this point.

Do you think Kobe is a better passer than Lebron? Do you think he is a better rebounder than Lebron? Do you think he is feared on defense more than Lebron.....you can see the fear and how players adjust their shots on fast breaks and drives to the hole because they don't want to have the ball rejected into the 8th row of the stands and be on sportscenter.....

I am looking at this from an unbiased point of view I am just a fan of the game and looking at what I see. You may not agree with me and thats fine, I'm just looking at it from an overall player view. Comparing rings is tough like I said because if Lebron and Kobe changed shoes I think Lakers still win the 5 titles Kobe was a part of.

corrections....sorry lol!

[jetersbatboy]

Michael is on a different level than both of them because he IS basketball. He changed the way the game was played. He changed the marketing of the game which is the reason kids saved entire allowances to buy a pair of his shoes hoping that it could in some way make them jump like Mike. Kid's on playgrounds stuck there tongue out and wore baggy shorts. Kobe modeled his entire game after MJ and Lebron started playing ball because of him. Michael is the ultimate figure in basketball, both Lebron and Kobe could and never will even try to compare themselves to Mike.

You still didn't answer my question. Your say Lebron stats are better then Kobe, so that makes lebron better. But you cant compare stats when it comes to MJ???? How about Magic then, since Lebron stats are better then Magic, is he better then Magic. Stats are what they are NUMBERS..... Numbers don't win championships Heart, Determination, Work Ethic does, in those categories Lebron is behind Kobe.

[STLHAMMER32]

You still didn't answer my question. Your say Lebron stats are better then Kobe, so that makes lebron better. But you cant compare stats when it comes to MJ???? How about Magic then, since Lebron stats are better then Magic, is he better then Magic. Stats are what they are NUMBERS..... Numbers don't win championships Heart, Determination, Work Ethic does, in those categories Lebron is behind Kobe.

What I said was that I feel Lebron is better in several areas of the game personally and the stats back that up. If you want to compare stats with MJ and Kobe go right ahead because MJ stats are pretty damn good......Michael also appeared in 6 NBA finals and won all 6 while taking Finals MVP honors for all 6 of them....Kobe will never compare himself to MJ and he shouldn't MJ is on a level all by himself.

[jetersbatboy]

Again why do stats make someone better?

[flota89]

Again why do stats make someone better?
Stats are what separate the good from the bad, the great from the good. Thats like trying to say Brendan Ryan (Cardinals shortstop) is as good as Albert Pujols because stats don't make someone better. Maybe I missed your point but stats are very important.

[flota89]

Stats are what separate the good from the bad, the great from the good. Thats like trying to say Brendan Ryan (Cardinals shortstop) is as good as Albert Pujols because stats don't make someone better. Maybe I missed your point but stats are very important.
Had to throw Brendan into this thread. Him and Kobe are my display picture.:)

[both-teams-played-hard]

Worth watching:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RxKoi__4Sg

How many points did Wilt hit from the outside, when he scored 100?
How many of you folks could hit 81 playing against a sixth grader?

I dislike Kobe and I think he is in love with himself. But 82 points is 82 points. Kobe is the greatest L.A. Laker ever.

[jetersbatboy]

Stats are what separate the good from the bad, the great from the good. Thats like trying to say Brendan Ryan (Cardinals shortstop) is as good as Albert Pujols because stats don't make someone better. Maybe I missed your point but stats are very important.

My point was two player that are separated by fractions in statistical categories, can not determine the better player. There are more to sports then numbers. The will to win ways heavier then a 1 point difference in scoring, to determine greatness.

[flota89]

My point was two player that are separated by fractions in statistical categories, can not determine the better player. There are more to sports then numbers. The will to win ways heavier then a 1 point difference in scoring, to determine greatness.
Ok in that case I see what your saying. I dont know how close the stats are between Kobe and Lebron (not an NBA fan) so I can't really say how much better Lebron's stats are or aren't.

[jobathenut]

This is a joke question,right? I mean come on it is not even a doubt-it's kobe.And the score is 5-0.Its a team sport the last time i checked and kobe makes his team better.And lebron just makes his own personal stats better.Its not about mvp's,its about nba championship's.Kobe bryant is the best player ever!!!!!Yes i said it.......:eek:

[jobathenut]

Some people are just "stat" people.And they rate a player by them as they think thats the measure of greatness.However i am not one of those people.As i think sometimes "stats" are the most over used things in sports.Not the same game and the same era so "stats" are not a good measure.I don't care what sport,"stats" are not everything.And i think the only "stat" that measures the impact of a player in a team sport like basketball is championships.Great players make thier team better.Players that care about thier own "stats" don;t win championships.Do you think kobe cared about his points last night as much as he cared about winning the game.He does'nt care about his own scoring,he just cares that they score.And for the people that might say he has a ego.Or is in love with himself.What pro player does'nt.Are you telling me none the celticks have that "spotlight" look them.Which means they are playing for the camera.Noone does it more than garnet.Again to me "stats" are so overrated to measure greatness.
Again why do stats make someone better?

[jobathenut]

I totally agree with you.
You still didn't answer my question. Your say Lebron stats are better then Kobe, so that makes lebron better. But you cant compare stats when it comes to MJ???? How about Magic then, since Lebron stats are better then Magic, is he better then Magic. Stats are what they are NUMBERS..... Numbers don't win championships Heart, Determination, Work Ethic does, in those categories Lebron is behind Kobe.

[jobathenut]

You are saying just what i have always said about the over importance in "stats" in sports.
My point was two player that are separated by fractions in statistical categories, can not determine the better player. There are more to sports then numbers. The will to win ways heavier then a 1 point difference in scoring, to determine greatness.

[TheGreat#8]

What I said was that I feel Lebron is better in several areas of the game personally and the stats back that up. If you want to compare stats with MJ and Kobe go right ahead because MJ stats are pretty damn good......Michael also appeared in 6 NBA finals and won all 6 while taking Finals MVP honors for all 6 of them....Kobe will never compare himself to MJ and he shouldn't MJ is on a level all by himself.

I am not sure that this is fair on several levels. First, I would think that there would not be too much disagreement that the Bulls played against overall less skilled teams than say the Lakers did in the 80's when they were facing the Celtics as an example. Magic Johnson played in 9 finals and won 5. Twice lost to the Celtics in the finals. I dare say that Michael never had to play teams at that level in the finals and if Magic's Lakers did not play those great Celtic teams he might have at least 7 rings, we will never know. While it is impossible to speculate what might have happened, and Michael could only play who he played, I think that people tend to overemphasize the fact that he was 6 - 0 in those finals. While certinly that is a phenomenal accomplishment, I don't believe that the overall skill level of any of those teams was say on par with the Larry Bird Celtics or even the 08/10 Celtics that the Lakers just played and this sentiment is echoed by several very notable journalist that I recently heard discussing this element as at no time did MJ have to play teams with three future HOF players in the starting lineup. He did have to play very, very good teams with two HOF players in Stockton and Malone in 97 & 98 but at no point did he face teams with the overall depth and quality of a lineup that the Celtics threw out there night in and night out.

The other issue here and it is pure speculation, is that the Lakers are already favored in 2010-11 to threepeat. You say that Kobe should never be compared to MJ. Again, pure speculation, but at 32 what if Kobe gets 2 - 3 more rings. If he wins two more than MJ and were to be named finals MVP in all those finals, you absolutely have to put him in that discussion.

The beauty of this whole thing is that Michael will never play another game again (unless his HOF speech was completely serious that he would play at 50) and Kobe still has 2 - 4 good if not great years ahead of him to keep making a run. I don't think you can put Kobe in that discussion yet, however if he were to win 7 or 8 titles, you absolutely have to do that as it does not matter your feelings on Shaq/Kobe during the first three runs, anybody that can win 6 or more rings in today's grueling NBA with the schedule etc. is accomplishing something amazing given the 4 total rounds of playoffs, and the length of the season. Lets face it, in many ways, MJ was very lucky to have played on teams that remained intact in terms of health. How many times historically have we seen potentially historic teams never reach the pinnicle due to injury. MJ was fortune that his teams never faced a serious injury that derailed the season and kept them from defending their title.

The bottom line is, that it is sheer stupidity for anyone to suggest that at no point, can any player ever be compared to MJ. At some point now or in the future, a great player will come along and do amazing things, win titles, MVP's, take his team to the next level and in sports, that is what you do compare players. Kobe is not MJ, however to suggest that nobody will ever come close to what he did is ridiculous as you cannot know the unknown. It seems like everyone gets caught up in this idea that if you even remotely compare anyone to MJ that you are somehow diminishing or trivializing what he accomplished which could not be further from the truth. While MJ is the gold standard against which others are compared, it is absolutely impossible to say that at no point can anyone ever come close to accomplishing any of those goals and records in the future.

[STLHAMMER32]

I am not sure that this is fair on several levels. First, I would think that there would not be too much disagreement that the Bulls played against overall less skilled teams than say the Lakers did in the 80's when they were facing the Celtics as an example. Magic Johnson played in 9 finals and won 5. Twice lost to the Celtics in the finals. I dare say that Michael never had to play teams at that level in the finals and if Magic's Lakers did not play those great Celtic teams he might have at least 7 rings, we will never know. While it is impossible to speculate what might have happened, and Michael could only play who he played, I think that people tend to overemphasize the fact that he was 6 - 0 in those finals. While certinly that is a phenomenal accomplishment, I don't believe that the overall skill level of any of those teams was say on par with the Larry Bird Celtics or even the 08/10 Celtics that the Lakers just played and this sentiment is echoed by several very notable journalist that I recently heard discussing this element as at no time did MJ have to play teams with three future HOF players in the starting lineup. He did have to play very, very good teams with two HOF players in Stockton and Malone in 97 & 98 but at no point did he face teams with the overall depth and quality of a lineup that the Celtics threw out there night in and night out.

The other issue here and it is pure speculation, is that the Lakers are already favored in 2010-11 to threepeat. You say that Kobe should never be compared to MJ. Again, pure speculation, but at 32 what if Kobe gets 2 - 3 more rings. If he wins two more than MJ and were to be named finals MVP in all those finals, you absolutely have to put him in that discussion.

The beauty of this whole thing is that Michael will never play another game again (unless his HOF speech was completely serious that he would play at 50) and Kobe still has 2 - 4 good if not great years ahead of him to keep making a run. I don't think you can put Kobe in that discussion yet, however if he were to win 7 or 8 titles, you absolutely have to do that as it does not matter your feelings on Shaq/Kobe during the first three runs, anybody that can win 6 or more rings in today's grueling NBA with the schedule etc. is accomplishing something amazing given the 4 total rounds of playoffs, and the length of the season. Lets face it, in many ways, MJ was very lucky to have played on teams that remained intact in terms of health. How many times historically have we seen potentially historic teams never reach the pinnicle due to injury. MJ was fortune that his teams never faced a serious injury that derailed the season and kept them from defending their title.

The bottom line is, that it is sheer stupidity for anyone to suggest that at no point, can any player ever be compared to MJ. At some point now or in the future, a great player will come along and do amazing things, win titles, MVP's, take his team to the next level and in sports, that is what you do compare players. Kobe is not MJ, however to suggest that nobody will ever come close to what he did is ridiculous as you cannot know the unknown. It seems like everyone gets caught up in this idea that if you even remotely compare anyone to MJ that you are somehow diminishing or trivializing what he accomplished which could not be further from the truth. While MJ is the gold standard against which others are compared, it is absolutely impossible to say that at no point can anyone ever come close to accomplishing any of those goals and records in the future.

Sure guys will have talent and stats that might surpass MJ, what I am saying is that as far as a player revolutionizing the game or setting the standard and changing the game on many levels, no one can be compared. Some goes for Babe Ruth, the impact he had on the game was something no one can compare to even though some of his numbers will be surpassed.

Sports is more than stats as you said earlier, I never relied upon stats soley when making my arguments....its what I see and how I feel. Kobe very well be the best player in the league it just depends upon how you view it. To me Lebron is the best overall player for the way I view it....and I was pointing out the stats don't say otherwise.....

I dont think the ring comparison is fair yet because Lebron has half of the seasons Kobe has had.....and once again its Kobe's situation that has allowed for the rings, Lakers are the best team in basketball no question....but if you put Kobe on the Cavs he would not have 5 rings right now.

[STLHAMMER32]

This is a joke question,right? I mean come on it is not even a doubt-it's kobe.And the score is 5-0.Its a team sport the last time i checked and kobe makes his team better.And lebron just makes his own personal stats better.Its not about mvp's,its about nba championship's.Kobe bryant is the best player ever!!!!!Yes i said it.......:eek:


By your argument of Kobe 5 to Lebron's 0. Then Bill Russell's 11 to Kobe's 5 would make Bill Russell better........

[TheGreat#8]

By your argument of Kobe 5 to Lebron's 0. Then Bill Russell's 11 to Kobe's 5 would make Bill Russell better........


I would personally vote for Satch Sanders of the 60's Celtics with 8 Rings or maye Jim Loscutoff or Frank Ramsey of those same Celtics teams with 7 rings each. One of those three is definitely the best player of all time :rolleyes:

One point that I think is interesting is that someone brought up how LeBron could not possibly be expected to win as many titles as Kobe to this point as he plays in Cleveland and the Lakers at least over the past 25 - 30 years have essentially been the class of the NBA or at least in the top two or three teams. I am not sure that is accurate in the same sense that the Bulls absolutely stunk when Jordan arrived. They had been somewhat competitive in the 70's but never played for a title. By the late 70's and early 80's they were horrible. Jordan's arrival and subsequently Pippen and the addition of role players changed all that.

LeBron has been in the league 7 years now. By all accounts Dan Gilbert their owner is willing to spend a ton of money to bring in support for LeBron. The argument that LeBron has to do it all due to the players around him seems silly to me. During the regular season when the Cavs are putting up 65 wins, nobody complains about Mo Williams, Boobie Gibson, Big Z, Big V, The Big Aristotle, etc. All of a sudden when they flame out in the playoffs, it is all those guys fault. If anything, they just don't know and understand how to play playoff basketball.

How many Cavs fans don't wish now that the Cavs had pulled the trigger on the Amare Stoudemire trade with Phoenix earlier this season instead of settling for Jamison. True, Amare could probably not have stopped Garnett either however he certainly would not have been missing in action on the offensive end as Jamison was especially against the Celtics.

If the Cavs have failed to surround LeBron with quality, that is somewhat their own dumb fault. If the front office is not shrewd enough to make good trades or bring in really good free agents it really has nothing to do with the city itself. True, the Lakers and Celtics have a rich tradition that Cleveland does not have however MJ proved that Chicago which was once a bottom feeder with zero championship pedigree could become world champions based on a great front office, player draft selection and development and surrounding MJ with the right players to get the job done.

I think LeBron will get his titles however I agree, he needs to get serious on a Kobe level about winning where it is obsessive to him to the point that almost nothing else matters. Those few players the MJ's, Kobe's, Bird's, Magic's etc. that cared for winning and little else are what sets them apart from others. I just wonder if LeBron has that drive. Only time will tell.

[joelsabi]

See answer to Question #2 and the signature at the bottom of the page.

[legaleagle92481]

Lebron's career regular season stats: 27.8 ppg, 7.1 boards per game, 7.0 assists per game, 1.7 steals per game, 0.9 blocks per game, 47.5 FG %, 32.9 3 point %, 74.2 FT %, 3.3 turnovers per game. 548 games, 547 starts, never less than 37.7 minutes per game in a season.

Kobe's career regular season stats: 25.3 ppg, 5.3 rpg, 4.7 assists, 1.5 steals per game, 0.6 blocks per game, 45.5 fg%, 34.0 3 pt fg%, 83.8 ft %, 2.9 turnovers per game. 1,021 career games 873 starts, 36.6 minutes per game with 15.5 minutes per game as a career low.

If not for Kobe's first two years when the Lakers did not start him their stats are fairly even.

[JasonM33]

Lebron is a talented player no doubt, however I just can't put him over Kobe. It's hard to say who's "better" because it's kind of apples and oranges because they don't play the same position and they have different roles on their teams. People get caught up with Lebron's stats vs Kobe's championships. I think it's more complex than that.

Kobe's stats are hurt but the fact that he didn't start until his 3rd year. Not that he couldn't have started but with Shaq there the Lakers could afford to be cautious with him. Kobe has done some amazing things scoring the ball in his career. 81 points in one game? Not even Jordan came close to that. 81 is more impressive to me that Wilt's 100 because Wilt was 5 feet from the hoop most of the time. Kobe is a perimiter player and he was hitting shots from way deep. Another time he hit 12 threes in one game including 9 in a row. That's still the record as far as I know. If Kobe was always on a team full of scrubs like he was in 2005-2007 you would see his career scoring numbers being off the charts. Even still he may retire as the all time points leader.

Kobe by anyone's definition is a better defender that Lebron from end to end. Lebron's blocks are impressive but they don't impact the game as much as Kobe locking guys down. He's made some clutch defensive plays in the postseason too. For as physically dominant as Lebron is, he should rebound a lot better than he does. If he can't get 10 reounds a game something is wrong.

Lebron is a great passer and he'll get you 2 or 3 more assists than Kobe in a game. However, the triangle offense is not a traditional inside-out offense. The ball has to move all to create opportunities and Phil Jackson encourages Kobe to get the "hockey assists" for than regular assists. Lebrons assists are dribble drive, 1 pass, shot. He essentially plays 1 on 5 most of the time. He creates all of the scoring opportunties himself.

One player can not win a championship by himself however it's very impressive that Kobe was able to be a dominant and important peice to the 2000,2001, and 2002 champions then rebuild from the gutter and win back to backs again. He still might not be done. I'n my opion Lebron's image is going to take a hit if he doesn't win a championship in Cleveland and then splits to a loaded team with two or three max salary players. It will be viewed as him failing to win as the main man. Kobe is most certainly the main man in LA even with a talented guy like Pau on the team.

I'm sorry this is so long and it could have been a lot longer. By the way Magic Johnson won 2 out of 3 championships against Boston. He did not lose to Boston twice as someone posted here earlier.