Trembley finally fired!!

[JasonBanz]

As an O's fan I'm saying finally! He hasn't done anything for the team in the past few years. I'm hoping Juan Samuel can do a good job as interim.

[allstarsplus]

As an O's fan I'm saying finally! He hasn't done anything for the team in the past few years. I'm hoping Juan Samuel can do a good job as interim.

Jason - Yep, finally.

As a former Orioles season ticket holder, I wish you luck. I couldn't take it any more and blame this on Angelo$ ultimately.

This is a demise of one of the best franchises in baseball from the mid-1960's to the time Angelos bought the team.

This team has been awful for years and the fall guy is the manager who gets fired while the Owner won't look in the mirror. Until they commit to either bidding against the Yankees and Red Sox or truly rebuild with youth and great scouting, then all you are going to do is be frustrated with a losing record for season after season.

The Tampa Bay Rays have built with youth and scouting and coaches that followed the course. It took 10 years and this year they have a shot at the ring. It will be interesting to see what will happen with one of their cornerstone players Carl Crawford if they let him go after the season.

I wish all my friends in Baltimore a lot of luck as the cornerstones are there with Matusz, Wieters, AJones, Markakis to name a few. They have to add to what they already have and keep it together long enough.

My guess is the O's will have the first pick in the 2011 Draft so that should help.

[legaleagle92481]

It is not Trembley's fault. They are in the toughest division in baseball and there is no way they could outspend the Yankees or even the Red Sox. Their revenues will never be that high and they are not a storied franchise along the lines of those franchises. Unlike Tampa they have not had the top, top of the first round picks so it is hard to rebuild through the draft. Tampa had top three picks for so many years leading to Longoria, Price and Upton, etc. and even their bust former number 1 overall pick Delmon Young they convinced the Twins to give them Garza and Bartlett for. As far as free agents the best they can do is declining over 30 players like Tejada and Atkins. They have made alot of good moves though. Adam Jones and Sherill for Erik Bedard who I believe is out of baseball was one of biggest steals of last few years. Wieters will be a player, Nick Madarkis is underrated and some of their young arms will pan out. They lack an in his prime talent though and until their young guys mature Connie Mack could not have won with this team.

[BradleyERyon]

I agree that the product on the field is not Dave Trembley's fault. It is unfortunate that he was fired but I hope that Juan Samuel will be able to kick the team I love into gear and get them playing good baseball.

A couple of things: First, those who say that the O's need to spend like the Yankess are crazy. The O's will never be able to raise the revenue that the Yank's do thru tv deals, sale of merchandise, ticket sales, etc. You must make money to spend money. Second, how can we get the big name free agents to come to Baltimore now? Keep in mind that Mark Teixeira grew up in Severna Park just miles from Baltimore and was a big O's fan growing up (until he signed with the Yanks and magically claimed to be a Yanks/Don Mattingly fan all of his lfe). The O's offered him good money and could not get him to sign for a team just down the road that he rooted for as a kid. Third, this organization has been terribly mismanaged for a very long time. For the longest time there was no focus on youth and building a core of talented young players. This is starting to happen and I hope that it is successful. If Wieters, Matusz, Tillman, Arietta, et al are successful then free agents will be more willing to sign with the O's. I believe that Andy MacPhail is the right man for the job even though he made some very questionable free agent signings in the off season. Let's hope it all works out because there is nothing that I would like to see more that for this franchise to be successful.

[allstarsplus]

Keep in mind that Mark Teixeira grew up in Severna Park just miles from Baltimore and was a big O's fan growing up (until he signed with the Yanks and magically claimed to be a Yanks/Don Mattingly fan all of his lfe). The O's offered him good money and could not get him to sign for a team just down the road that he rooted for as a kid. .

Do you realize the Nats outbid the Orioles for Teixeira on the dollar amount per year? I don't really think that Angelo$ put out an offer that was going to be taken seriously, but that is my opinion.

The Rays have also dabbled in Free Agency although not well with guys like Pat Burrell and have made some excellent late round picks so they figured a way to compete.

The O's either have to play the hand dealt to them or sell to Ripken. Constantly complaining about the competition won't change what this team has become. The Yankees and Red Sox aren't going to change how they do business.

[BradleyERyon]

You totally missed my point. My point is that it's not all about free agency. You must draft well and grow players on the farm.

[JasonBanz]

I do agree it is not Trembley's fault. Almost everything falls on poor decisions that Angelos has since he has bought the team. But Trembley never really had much enthusiasm as a coach. There was never really any fire behind him. Truthfully, we need someone like Earl Weaver again!!

[sox83cubs84]

Peter Angelos is Charlie Finley WITHOUT the promotional flair and baseball smarts. The
O's will be also-rans until Angelos sells the team.

[TheGreat#8]

It is not Trembley's fault. They are in the toughest division in baseball and there is no way they could outspend the Yankees or even the Red Sox. Their revenues will never be that high and they are not a storied franchise along the lines of those franchises. Unlike Tampa they have not had the top, top of the first round picks so it is hard to rebuild through the draft. Tampa had top three picks for so many years leading to Longoria, Price and Upton, etc. and even their bust former number 1 overall pick Delmon Young they convinced the Twins to give them Garza and Bartlett for. As far as free agents the best they can do is declining over 30 players like Tejada and Atkins. They have made alot of good moves though. Adam Jones and Sherill for Erik Bedard who I believe is out of baseball was one of biggest steals of last few years. Wieters will be a player, Nick Madarkis is underrated and some of their young arms will pan out. They lack an in his prime talent though and until their young guys mature Connie Mack could not have won with this team.

Several things are problematic here. First of all, The Orioles while not having the #1 draft pick repeatedly over the past twelve years have had one of the top 3 - 10 draft picks each of the past twelve seasons. While baseball is certainly more of a crap shoot than say picking the #3 - 10 picks in either football or basketball, there is simply no reason why the Orioles farm system has been a complete train wreck up until about two years ago. In fact, most of the top prospects who are either now in Baltimore or on their way up were acquired via trade from other teams not even home grown talent. The simple fact is that the Orioles from top to bottom have been a disgrace for the past now thirteen seasons and there is just no excuse for it.

Secondly, everyone keeps saying the Orioles cannot outspend the Yankees and Sox, to a degree that is true but not completely. The insiders in MLB who regularly can forcast revenue agree that the Orioles could complete and still break even if their payroll was in the 125 million annual range right below that of the Red Sox. While the attendance has become pitiful at Camden Yards, that would surely change if a concerted effort was made on behalf of management to turn around the culture of losing and over time the fans sensed that a real effort was being made to win and the results showed on the field. Additionally, Angelos received an insane amount of money from MLB to agree to allow the Nats to relocate to the Washington area. That coupled with the fact that he owns the MASN sports network, forcast are that the Orioles actually have revenue of somewhere around $330 million per year even with a nearly empty stadium and dwindling fan base. Based upon that, there is no viable arguement that they cannot spend money to put talent on the field.

Certainly they cannot just dump boat loads of money into free agents as many free agents it is true will not come to Baltimore because they think they cannot win. However, a concentrated effort to build the minor league system and develop talent along with strategic efforts to bring in key free agents should be and could be made.

Sadly, as another poster mentioned, this will never change as long as Pete Angelos and his 5 feet tall sons run the team. Angelos should stick to law and let the people that know the business run the business.

The other factor is that someone mentioned that the O's don't have the history of the Yankees and Sox. True, they do not go back to the turn of the previous century, however the O's were THE class of baseball in the mid to late 60's through the 70's. They had the best record in the majors over a 15 year period into the early 80's. While revenue and the distribution of it has changed over the years, there is simply no reason that this team cannot compete with the big boys. They have one of the most loyal and rabid fan bases in all of sports that just want the team to return to their past glory. I witnessed this personally on the home opening day when a record crowd of 49000 showed up filled with hope of a team that was finally turning the corner. That turned quickly to disgust when the wheels fell of the cart.

Only Angelos selling this team will ever make a difference and I don't believe in my lifetime, I will ever see this team win again.

[JasonBanz]

Several things are problematic here. First of all, The Orioles while not having the #1 draft pick repeatedly over the past twelve years have had one of the top 3 - 10 draft picks each of the past twelve seasons. While baseball is certainly more of a crap shoot than say picking the #3 - 10 picks in either football or basketball, there is simply no reason why the Orioles farm system has been a complete train wreck up until about two years ago. In fact, most of the top prospects who are either now in Baltimore or on their way up were acquired via trade from other teams not even home grown talent. The simple fact is that the Orioles from top to bottom have been a disgrace for the past now thirteen seasons and there is just no excuse for it.

Secondly, everyone keeps saying the Orioles cannot outspend the Yankees and Sox, to a degree that is true but not completely. The insiders in MLB who regularly can forcast revenue agree that the Orioles could complete and still break even if their payroll was in the 125 million annual range right below that of the Red Sox. While the attendance has become pitiful at Camden Yards, that would surely change if a concerted effort was made on behalf of management to turn around the culture of losing and over time the fans sensed that a real effort was being made to win and the results showed on the field. Additionally, Angelos received an insane amount of money from MLB to agree to allow the Nats to relocate to the Washington area. That coupled with the fact that he owns the MASN sports network, forcast are that the Orioles actually have revenue of somewhere around $330 million per year even with a nearly empty stadium and dwindling fan base. Based upon that, there is no viable arguement that they cannot spend money to put talent on the field.

Certainly they cannot just dump boat loads of money into free agents as many free agents it is true will not come to Baltimore because they think they cannot win. However, a concentrated effort to build the minor league system and develop talent along with strategic efforts to bring in key free agents should be and could be made.

Sadly, as another poster mentioned, this will never change as long as Pete Angelos and his 5 feet tall sons run the team. Angelos should stick to law and let the people that know the business run the business.

The other factor is that someone mentioned that the O's don't have the history of the Yankees and Sox. True, they do not go back to the turn of the previous century, however the O's were THE class of baseball in the mid to late 60's through the 70's. They had the best record in the majors over a 15 year period into the early 80's. While revenue and the distribution of it has changed over the years, there is simply no reason that this team cannot compete with the big boys. They have one of the most loyal and rabid fan bases in all of sports that just want the team to return to their past glory. I witnessed this personally on the home opening day when a record crowd of 49000 showed up filled with hope of a team that was finally turning the corner. That turned quickly to disgust when the wheels fell of the cart.

Only Angelos selling this team will ever make a difference and I don't believe in my lifetime, I will ever see this team win again.

Very well stated! My only thought with spending more money and spending for free agents, could possibly fill the stands a little better, creating more revenue, and making more money.

[geoff]

I am A Orioles Season Ticket Holder.Only 13 Games but its all good I love going to Games even though we are Losing.I say its about Time Trembley was Fired.He is A Nice Guy in all but He had to go.The Orioles need A Change.Maybe Samual is The Answer to Light A Fire in The Players but I do Think He will only be The Manager for The Rest of this Season.We need A High Profile Manager I think.Only Time will Tell what will happen.I will still go to Games And always Love The Orioles no matter what happens.Just my thoughts on this Subject.

Thanks
Geoff

[legaleagle92481]

Several things are problematic here. First of all, The Orioles while not having the #1 draft pick repeatedly over the past twelve years have had one of the top 3 - 10 draft picks each of the past twelve seasons. While baseball is certainly more of a crap shoot than say picking the #3 - 10 picks in either football or basketball, there is simply no reason why the Orioles farm system has been a complete train wreck up until about two years ago. In fact, most of the top prospects who are either now in Baltimore or on their way up were acquired via trade from other teams not even home grown talent. The simple fact is that the Orioles from top to bottom have been a disgrace for the past now thirteen seasons and there is just no excuse for it.

Secondly, everyone keeps saying the Orioles cannot outspend the Yankees and Sox, to a degree that is true but not completely. The insiders in MLB who regularly can forcast revenue agree that the Orioles could complete and still break even if their payroll was in the 125 million annual range right below that of the Red Sox. While the attendance has become pitiful at Camden Yards, that would surely change if a concerted effort was made on behalf of management to turn around the culture of losing and over time the fans sensed that a real effort was being made to win and the results showed on the field. Additionally, Angelos received an insane amount of money from MLB to agree to allow the Nats to relocate to the Washington area. That coupled with the fact that he owns the MASN sports network, forcast are that the Orioles actually have revenue of somewhere around $330 million per year even with a nearly empty stadium and dwindling fan base. Based upon that, there is no viable arguement that they cannot spend money to put talent on the field.

Certainly they cannot just dump boat loads of money into free agents as many free agents it is true will not come to Baltimore because they think they cannot win. However, a concentrated effort to build the minor league system and develop talent along with strategic efforts to bring in key free agents should be and could be made.

Sadly, as another poster mentioned, this will never change as long as Pete Angelos and his 5 feet tall sons run the team. Angelos should stick to law and let the people that know the business run the business.

The other factor is that someone mentioned that the O's don't have the history of the Yankees and Sox. True, they do not go back to the turn of the previous century, however the O's were THE class of baseball in the mid to late 60's through the 70's. They had the best record in the majors over a 15 year period into the early 80's. While revenue and the distribution of it has changed over the years, there is simply no reason that this team cannot compete with the big boys. They have one of the most loyal and rabid fan bases in all of sports that just want the team to return to their past glory. I witnessed this personally on the home opening day when a record crowd of 49000 showed up filled with hope of a team that was finally turning the corner. That turned quickly to disgust when the wheels fell of the cart.

Only Angelos selling this team will ever make a difference and I don't believe in my lifetime, I will ever see this team win again.

The Yankees spend about $200 million so the payroll gap at your suggested spending level would still be the equivalent of the entire payroll of a mid market team. If the Yankees really want a player no team can outbid them unless the owner is willing to dip into his personal fortune, which very, very, very few owners would ever do. Could they spend more? Of course but would it really make a difference? Maybe if they are lucky they finish third in the division. Baltimore is a great city but also lacks the media opportunities to do ads, etc. and the nightlife that New York has to entice players with.

What I meant by tradition is the Yanks and Sox are national teams meaning they have large fan bases across the country, while the Orioles and the vast majority of teams in all sports have localized fan bases. The time period you cite was 30-45 years ago and the 18-35 year olds who make up a large % of sports fans were either not born or were too young to really remember that era. Plus the Reds and Pirates also played very well during that period with multiple titles and it has not helped them today at all.

Yes Angelos is a horrible owner but then so are many owners I am a Mets fan and our owner would give Angelos a run for his money in lack of baseball smarts.

I think the bigger issue is the Jays and Orioles both will not be able to compete in the near future because of the three power house teams in their division. If they played in the AL or NL West they would fair much, much better. The best hope for their fans is defintely realignment.

[TheGreat#8]

The Yankees spend about $200 million so the payroll gap at your suggested spending level would still be the equivalent of the entire payroll of a mid market team. If the Yankees really want a player no team can outbid them unless the owner is willing to dip into his personal fortune, which very, very, very few owners would ever do. Could they spend more? Of course but would it really make a difference? Maybe if they are lucky they finish third in the division. Baltimore is a great city but also lacks the media opportunities to do ads, etc. and the nightlife that New York has to entice players with.

What I meant by tradition is the Yanks and Sox are national teams meaning they have large fan bases across the country, while the Orioles and the vast majority of teams in all sports have localized fan bases. The time period you cite was 30-45 years ago and the 18-35 year olds who make up a large % of sports fans were either not born or were too young to really remember that era. Plus the Reds and Pirates also played very well during that period with multiple titles and it has not helped them today at all.

Yes Angelos is a horrible owner but then so are many owners I am a Mets fan and our owner would give Angelos a run for his money in lack of baseball smarts.

I think the bigger issue is the Jays and Orioles both will not be able to compete in the near future because of the three power house teams in their division. If they played in the AL or NL West they would fair much, much better. The best hope for their fans is defintely realignment.


Well the problem is that argument does not really hold water either. While the Red Sox have a 2010 payroll of 168 million that is the highest it has ever been. They have regularly been in the 135 - 145 range only 10 - 20 million above what the Orioles could easily sit at and if you are making good business decisons at the minor league level and through free agency then Baltimore could easily compete for #2 in the division on a regular basis. Obviously this can be done simply based on the fact that Tampa did it two years ago and is doing it again this year. Free spending alone is not the answer and I am not saying it is but Baltimore has just been bad at every level from the minor league system to the majors for 13 years and it appears to not be getting better any time soon.

It is not about outspending everyone else, but Baltimore can spend with Boston or close to it but chooses not to do so. Don't underestimate the amount of money that Angelos actually makes off of this club. If the fans knew the real amount they would probably be sick especially based on the actual product put back on the field.

Realingment is probably not happening anytime soon. In fact, if Angelos was smart, he would have played that card several years ago and told MLB that the Nats could come to Washington if the O's were relocated to the NL East. I have heard that argument that this would have been done but good old Pete did not make the formal request.

Bottom line is they will have to compete where they are in the same division with what they have to compete with. People who are arguing that they cannot do so are simply misinformed and using the circumstances around the team as a poor excuse.