Photo matched PR4192 Rose bat with surprise!!!!

[schubert1970]

I was looking at Ebay this morning and saw someone selling a Beckett magazine with Rose on the cover (Issue #11 from Sept '85). After a closer look at the cover, I thought the bat Pete was holding looks just like mine (of course a bunch of PR4192 bats look alike).

I asked the seller to send me a hi-res pic of the cover and he did.

Here is a list of things that I thought matched.

1. The knob has a scuff just above the number 1.
2. The bottom of the tape job was started in the exact same spot and lines up with the 14 on the knob.
3. There are three distinct marks above the tape job that line up with the number 14 on the knob.
4. Looks like the grain match, but tough to notice.

I would have uploaded hi-res pics, but can't due to the size limits. I'm no pro at this and I was off about my Sheffield bat, but would really like to have some other opinions.


Also, would anyone happen to know from the background of the Beckett photo which park Pete is in?

txs!

[metsbats]

I think the no. 14 on the knob of the bat perfectly matches the bat in the photo too.

[Neal]

I think the no. 14 on the knob of the bat perfectly matches the bat in the photo too.

agreed

Nice bat!

[Lokee]

Nice bat !

[STLHAMMER32]

you have enough details that match up to consider this to be the same bat in my opinion. Everything looks good. Very nice catch on seeing the possiblity from the auction! Congrats!

[flota89]

Looks like a match to me. Nice find!

[UGA-1]

YEP. Its a match IMO too. Congrats!! It had to be a good feeling when you realized that was your bat in the pic!

[schubert1970]

YEP. Its a match IMO too. Congrats!! It had to be a good feeling when you realized that was your bat in the pic!

I still can't believe it. I contacted someoneat Beckett to see if they could give me more information about the photo. A date would be cool.

Thanks for to all for taking time to read my post and comment.

[tacprc]

fyi, I have reviewed that magazine and didn't see a photo credit inside. Chuck

[metsbats]

That would be great to get that photo from Beckett.

Congrats on this awesome photo match!

[schubert1970]

A while back I posted about photomatching my PR4192 Rose bat to a Beckett magazine cover from 1985.
http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=34952&page=2&highlight=pete+rose

I've taken things one step further (Steve Mears has been asking me to do this for a long time) and had my bat x-rayed today and guess what..........CORK. The x-ray tech thought this was the coolest thing, one was actually a Rose fan. I have the actual x-ray film, and it looks better then the pic I've attached taken from my iphone.

I know there have been few other corked bats that surfaced, but they were all torn apart and not photo matched. Earlier this morning I talked with a few other collectors who didn't think Rose corked his bats, but I think I changed their minds.

What an awsome day!!

[Dewey2007]

A while back I posted about photomatching my PR4192 Rose bat to a Beckett magazine cover from 1985.
http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=34952&page=2&highlight=pete+rose

I've taken things one step further (Steve Mears has been asking me to do this for a long time) and had my bat x-rayed today and guess what..........CORK. The x-ray tech thought this was the coolest thing, one was actually a Rose fan. I have the actual x-ray film, and it looks better then the pic I've attached taken from my iphone.

I know there have been few other corked bats that surfaced, but they were all torn apart and not photo matched. Earlier this morning I talked with a few other collectors who didn't think Rose corked his bats, but I think I changed their minds.

What an awsome day!!

What are you trying to do ruin Pete's image by posting this info! :rolleyes:

Good stuff...I think the Hit King is going to be looking for you now...

[jscott0688]

Wow! That's all I can really say. Congrats!

[CollectGU]

A photo matched bat with cork, now their is no doubt it seems he was corking many of his bats....One of the coolest bats I've seen posted up here for sure.....

Dave

[skipcarayislegend]

That's awesome. You should try and get him to write "I'm sorry I corked my bats" on it. :D

[gnishiyama]

Congrats on the awesome bat. It always feels great when you get an added bonus to an item you're already happy with. I'm sure you saw this article
but your bat is probably worth A LOT more than what you paid for now.
Goh Nishiyama

Pete Rose's $103,631 Corked Bat to Be Sawed in Half
Mon, 19 Dec 2005, 16:44:00 EDT


GoldenPalace.com to reveal the truth about legend's allegedly corked bat

SEAFORD, NY (SEND2PRESS NEWSWIRE) -- The Internet casino that bought baseball legend Pete Rose's allegedly corked bat now plans to saw it in half to reveal the truth to the world.

http://send2press.com/mediaboom/1205-gp-rosebat_72dpi.jpgInternet casino GoldenPalace.com bought the bat on Saturday for $103,631 on Lelands.com, the foremost auction house of sports and entertainment/Americana. The bat is signed by Rose and was used to hit his 159th home run. Rose holds the record for all-time hits. Now that the casino owns the bat, they have plans to saw it in half to reveal once and for all if the bat is enhanced in any way.

*(Photo Caption: GoldenPalace.com purchases authentic autographed Pete Rose Mizuno baseball bat)

"We love Pete Rose, we have nothing against him and are amazed by his accomplishments," said Drew Black, a marketing representative for the site, "but we think this is a terrific opportunity to put the bat's popularity to good use."

The sawing of the bat is part of the casino's plan to use it in an ongoing effort to raise money for charity. The casino has not yet decided on the exact details, but they have a history of devising creative ways to raise awareness and funds for many worthy causes.

"Anytime an item of this historical significance generates so much attention, it has enormous potential to raise money for charity," said GoldenPalace.com CEO Richard Rowe. "We expect to use the interest in the bat to develop a fund-raising campaign to help those less fortunate. You can also bet that we will find the most fun and innovative way to do that."

GoldenPalace.com has become famous for spending thousands of dollars on unusual and sometimes outrageous auction buys. Purchases such as the Virgin Mary Grilled Cheese Sandwich, Pope's Hat Doritos Chip, Holy Pierogi, and NASCAR Driver Robby Gordon's helmet have garnered extensive media attention for the casino, who have used most of the items they have purchased to raise almost $1,000,000 for various charities worldwide.

[chicagoglen]

This has got to be the coolest post I have ever read on ANY forum!

[5kRunner]

This has got to be the coolest post I have ever read on ANY forum!

Agreed. Definitely the coolest item I've seen posted here.

[spartakid]

Awesome, that's definitely a sweet bat and a cool story

[schubert1970]

Thanks for all the great comments and sharing in my excitement.

I spoke with John Taube today and he really liked the evidence I showed him when discussing the bat. At first he was a bit skeptical, but after sending him my pics, he agreed with my assumtions. I'll probably sentdthe bat off to him for documentation of everything I've gathered.

I'm tempted to head to Vegas and get a pic with Pete and this bat.

Bill

[33bird]

LMK when you go and I'll meet ya there. Would love to see him explain the cork!

[jays78]

Awesome Find!! Just curious as to when players cork these? Are they ordered that way, or do they have them modified after? You'd think they would want to keep as few people in the loop as possible...

[schubert1970]

Awesome Find!! Just curious as to when players cork these? Are they ordered that way, or do they have them modified after? You'd think they would want to keep as few people in the loop as possible...

In this case Pete's good buddy Tommy Gio claimed to corking the bats. To this day Pete claims to never have used a cork bat and the few that have surfaced, Pete claims were done after the bat left his hands.

Both have zero credibility.

[33bird]

I believe Pete, of course, since he's always been honest in the past!

[Rob L]

Unbelievable Bat! Congrats!!

[schubert1970]

I was contacted by a few media outlets today so we'll see what happens in the next few weeks.

Bill

[joelsabi]

I was contacted by a few media outlets today so we'll see what happens in the next few weeks.

Bill

for some reason, i am not surprised. great bat. i think everyone who owns a Rose bat want to x-ray their bats too. What gave you the idea that it was corked? Does the weight of the bat weigh more than it is supposed to?

[schubert1970]

for some reason, i am not surprised. great bat. i think everyone who owns a Rose bat want to x-ray their bats too. What gave you the idea that it was corked? Does the weight of the bat weigh more than it is supposed to?


Joel,

After I traded for the bat from Steve Wolter (owner of the pat and ball that passed Cobb) last August, I sent pics of my bat to Steve Mears and he thought the top of the bat look suspicious, and he suggested I take it somewhere and get it scanned. I didn't really think the bat was corked so I didn't bother to do anything about it.

After I made the photomatch a few months ago, I thought what the heck let's x-ray this thing and if it's corked, we have a pic of him using the bat and how incredible would that be. Plus, the other corked bats that have surfaced are damaged or the top portion of the bat has all the paint taken off. At least with an x-ray we didn't ruin the bat.

I have no idea what the bat should weigh, and I wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

Bill

[schubert1970]

fyi, I have reviewed that magazine and didn't see a photo credit inside. Chuck


Chuck,

The photo credit is on the inside cover. The pic was taken by Bob Bartosz. He told me he took the picture, but couldn't tell me what ballpark it was taken in.

Bill

[CowboyJohn]

Bill,

Congratulations for taking the effort to confirm what I strongly suspected. You now have yourself the definitive proof, corroborating my find of almost three years ago. Maybe now, guys like John Taube, who has a Pete Rose PR 4192 model will get off their duff's and X-ray theirs.

Now that the cat is out of the hat, I will share pics of mine.

Three interesting notes:

The paint stick/pen or whatever means that was used to apply the "14" on the end of my bat was obviously scuffed/messed up, and reapplied in an effort to cover up the dirty deed. Yours (assuming the picture you posted is the barrel end, not the knob end) is a bit less messy. It appears the number "14" on yours was only applied once. I'm nt sure what significance there is to this, but maybe one day we'll find out.

Secondly, please note that my bat was sent to MEARS for authentication. They totally missed the fact it was corked. They weighed it, made note of the weight, but the lighter result was apparently written off (in their analysis) as loss due to natural evaporation of the wood over time. A reasonable assumption, so I am not criticizing them for the miss.

Lastly, the technique used to prepare these bats appear to have been different. At the very least, mine was drilled with a machine drill bit, easilly identifiable by the stepped-in narrow end of the hole drilled. Bill's bat was drilled with an auger bit, as evidenced by the "V" shaped grove at the end. Bill's appears to be a bit off center as it travels through the bat, and mine appears to be dead-nuts through the center. This could be a minor "operator" error when locking the bat up in a vice, or possible because one was set it in a machine lathe which would insure better accuracy. Who knows, but it is interesting to note. It also proves that corking a bat is not an exact science.

A year or so ago, I mentioned I had a theory on why Pete Rose "sanded" a patch on his Black Mizuno bats. My theory was that he did so to inspect the wood grain on his bats.

Why?

His story, which most here reiterated as their belief to be true, was because he wanted to see the ball marks better on his bat the next time he used it.

Huh?

That made no sense then, and makes less sence now. What BETTER SUFACE would their be to show newly placed ball marks on a bat then BLACK LAQUER? Especially after he would wipe his bats down with rubbing alcohol to remove the old ones. THINK about that for a minute...

If you rub off the alcohol on the bat, removing all the old ball marks, WHY SAND THE PAINT OFF? So you can try to see lighter balls mark on a sanded light ash grained surface instead of on a BLACL LAQUERED SURFACE? That's ridiculous, the black surface would make it MUCH easier to see. Any of you that own a black vehicle will understand what I'm talking about here. Shiney black surfaces show EVERYTHING.

Pete's concocted story was...just that. I still believe to this day, that he sanded a patch of paint off these bats......because they were CORKED. And he wanted to check out the possible damage/errosion to the grain of the bat after some use. After all, being a few hits away from breaking Ty Cobb's record, what could be more disappointing than having a bat shatter on hit number 4102 and have cork fly all over the field?

As maybe a few more of these, NOW, will surface, we may all be able to put the pieces together.

Tommy Gioiosa told Vanity Fair magazine in his famous interview that Pete corked his bats. It appears Tommy was telling the truth.

Some pics of mine...

Notice on the two similar pictures on the knob the starting of the separation of the 3/4" wood plug, circling through the "4"...

[spartakid]

Steve, How much did it cost to get these x-rays? Just curious

[spartakid]

Wow, that's a lot less than I would have thought. I do have to say, I still remember that insane set of pics you posted with the Williams, Mays, etc. Nicest collection I've seen to date. Take care

[CowboyJohn]

Bill,

Congratulations for taking the effort to confirm what I strongly suspected. You now have yourself the definitive proof, corroborating my find of almost three years ago. Maybe now, guys like John Taube, who has a Pete Rose PR 4192 model will get off their duff's and X-ray theirs.

Now that the cat is out of the hat, I will share pics of mine.

Three interesting notes:

The paint stick/pen or whatever means that was used to apply the "14" on the end of my bat was obviously scuffed/messed up, and reapplied in an effort to cover up the dirty deed. Yours (assuming the picture you posted is the barrel end, not the knob end) is a bit less messy. It appears the number "14" on yours was only applied once. I'm nt sure what significance there is to this, but maybe one day we'll find out.

Secondly, please note that my bat was sent to MEARS for authentication. They totally missed the fact it was corked. They weighed it, made note of the weight, but the lighter result was apparently written off (in their analysis) as loss due to natural evaporation of the wood over time. A reasonable assumption, so I am not criticizing them for the miss.

Lastly, the technique used to prepare these bats appear to have been different. At the very least, mine was drilled with a machine drill bit, easilly identifiable by the stepped-in narrow end of the hole drilled. Bill's bat was drilled with an auger bit, as evidenced by the "V" shaped grove at the end. Bill's appears to be a bit off center as it travels through the bat, and mine appears to be dead-nuts through the center. This could be a minor "operator" error when locking the bat up in a vice, or possible because one was set it in a machine lathe which would insure better accuracy. Who knows, but it is interesting to note. It also proves that corking a bat is not an exact science.

A year or so ago, I mentioned I had a theory on why Pete Rose "sanded" a patch on his Black Mizuno bats. My theory was that he did so to inspect the wood grain on his bats.

Why?

His story, which most here reiterated as their belief to be true, was because he wanted to see the ball marks better on his bat the next time he used it.

Huh?

That made no sense then, and makes less sence now. What BETTER SUFACE would their be to show newly placed ball marks on a bat then BLACK LAQUER? Especially after he would wipe his bats down with rubbing alcohol to remove the old ones. THINK about that for a minute...

If you rub off the alcohol on the bat, removing all the old ball marks, WHY SAND THE PAINT OFF? So you can try to see lighter balls mark on a sanded light ash grained surface instead of on a BLACL LAQUERED SURFACE? That's ridiculous, the black surface would make it MUCH easier to see. Any of you that own a black vehicle will understand what I'm talking about here. Shiney black surfaces show EVERYTHING.

Pete's concocted story was...just that. I still believe to this day, that he sanded a patch of paint off these bats......because they were CORKED. And he wanted to check out the possible damage/errosion to the grain of the bat after some use. After all, being a few hits away from breaking Ty Cobb's record, what could be more disappointing than having a bat shatter on hit number 4102 and have cork fly all over the field?

As maybe a few more of these, NOW, will surface, we may all be able to put the pieces together.

Tommy Gioiosa told Vanity Fair magazine in his famous interview that Pete corked his bats. It appears Tommy was telling the truth.

Some pics of mine...

Notice on the two similar pictures on the knob the starting of the separation of the 3/4" wood plug, circling through the "4"...

I'm sorry for all the typos....here is a corrected version, typos highlighted...


Bill,

Congratulations for taking the effort to confirm what I strongly suspected. You now have yourself the definitive proof, corroborating my find of almost three years ago. Maybe now, guys like John Taube, who has a Pete Rose PR 4192 model will get off their duff's and X-ray theirs.

Now that the cat is out of the hat, I will share pics of mine.

Three interesting notes:

The paint stick/pen or whatever means that was used to apply the "14" on the end of my bat was obviously scuffed/messed up, and reapplied in an effort to cover up the dirty deed. Yours (assuming the picture you posted is the barrel end, not the knob end) is a bit less messy. It appears the number "14" on yours was only applied once. I'm not sure what significance there is to this, but maybe one day we'll find out.

Secondly, please note that my bat was sent to MEARS for authentication. They totally missed the fact it was corked. They weighed it, made note of the weight, but the lighter result was apparently written off (in their analysis) as loss due to natural evaporation of moisture in the wood over time. A reasonable assumption, so I am not criticizing them for the miss.

Lastly, the technique used to prepare these bats appear to have been different. At the very least, mine was drilled with a machine drill bit, easily identifiable by the stepped-in narrow end of the hole drilled. Bill's bat was drilled with an auger bit, as evidenced by the "V" shaped grove at the end. Bill's appears to be a bit off center as it travels through the bat, and mine appears to be dead-nuts through the center. This could be a minor "operator" error when locking the bat up in a vice, or possible because one was set it in a machine lathe which would insure better accuracy. Who knows, but it is interesting to note. It also proves that corking a bat is not an exact science.

A year or so ago, I mentioned I had a theory on why Pete Rose "sanded" a patch on his Black Mizuno bats. My theory was that he did so to inspect the wood grain on his bats.

Why?

His story, which most here reiterated as their belief to be true, was because he wanted to see the ball marks better on his bat the next time he used it.

Huh?

That made no sense then, and makes less sense now. What BETTER SURFACE would there be to show newly placed ball marks on a bat then BLACK LAQUER? Especially after he would wipe his bats down with rubbing alcohol to remove the old ones. THINK about that for a minute...

If you rub off the old ball marks on the bat, WHY SAND THE PAINT OFF? So you can try to see lighter balls mark on a sanded light ash grained surface instead of on a BLACK LAQUERED SURFACE? That's ridiculous! The black surface would make it MUCH easier to see. Any of you that own a black vehicle will understand what I'm talking about here. Shiny black surfaces show EVERYTHING.

Pete's concocted story was...just that. I still believe to this day, that he sanded a patch of paint off these bats......because they were CORKED. And he wanted to check out the possible damage/erosion to the grain of the bat after some use. After all, being a few hits away from breaking Ty Cobb's record, what could be more disappointing than having a bat shatter on hit number 4102 and have cork fly all over the field?

As maybe a few more of these, NOW, will surface, we may all be able to put the pieces together.

Tommy Gioiosa told Vanity Fair magazine in his famous interview that Pete corked his bats. It appears Tommy was telling the truth.

Some pics of mine...

Notice on the two similar pictures on the knob the starting of the separation of the 3/4" wood plug, circling through the "4"...

[yanks12025]

Nice bats. Hope you ask Rose about the bat and see what he says.

P.S
Has any company/mlb done tests to see how kork affects hitting the ball/distance, i think i may kork one of my bats and see if i can hit better.

[Rob L]

Nice bats. Hope you ask Rose about the bat and see what he says.

P.S
Has any company/mlb done tests to see how kork affects hitting the ball/distance, i think i may kork one of my bats and see if i can hit better.

I don't know if or who would have studied the cork bat issue, but com
on sense would indicate that the bat would be lighter allowing for a quicker swing and a spring affect would occur since the bat would have a compressable material in the center.

This getting very interesting.

[CowboyJohn]

From what I've read on scientic studies on this issue, the bat speed (velocity) gained is offset by the lost on impact (lighter density) and as a result, you may...may...get a little "pop" off the bat since the speed is increased, but assuming you've hit it on the screws and on a home run trajectory, the ball has will lose it's arc a bit quicker because of the loss of inertia on impact from the lighter density bat.

I posted on this a long time ago. I personally thing the biggest "gain", if any at all, is the psychological advantage a slumping player may gain, thinking he is gaining some time to choose whether to swing or not on a pitch, due to the lighter bat. That "split second" advantage, some have claimed, is a benefit to a guy who is trying to get his timing back. I don't really buy it. And, even if that's true, I don't believe Pete Rose would have been corking bats for that reason. I would be more apt to believe it was to get that "snap" back, the ball coming off the bat with a bit more "pop". But how much of that is a true advantage, versus a mental advantage?

Maybe he wanted to insure that he maintained his "stroke", and insured the possibility of getting the chance to break Cobb's record by doing what he felt necessary to not fall into a slump. Even as the player/manager, how could he justify keeping himself in the line-up if he slumped to, say, .180? Only he knows for sure what edge he felt he needed. He was getting way up there in age, and if he was losing speed on that swing due to his age, maybe a touch of eye sight too, he may have felt desperate to make a fix. But my GOD, what a chance he took. Corking your bats, as Gioiosa claimed "right before he broke Cobb's
record"....wow. He could had one blow out on him and shatter champagne plugs all over the infield, and then what??

Yeah, I guess you could say this guy was a gambler.

[33bird]

I've heard the studies on cork showed hardly any difference whatsover in POP from a normal bat. I agree with a couple things: A lot of his Mizunos had no 14 on either end. Maybe he mostly put the 14 on those bats to cover the corking. Secondly, I agree with the shaving thing somewhat except he did that long before he used black mizunos. I have sanding on one of his 1979 bats. Didn't make sense to me either: Why sand the black off the barrel? The black shows the ballmarks much better than white ash wood. Now for Taube's Mizuno. I've NEVER seen Rose using a Mizuno with the Mizuno sticker still on the bat. From what I've read and seen he always removed that sticker. So I wonder if that one was ever really used in a game? If anybody has him using the black Mizuno with the sticker still in place let me know. Just my 2 cents. I've had a number of Rose Mizuno bats and still have a couple in the family but none that have signs of cork and none of them are numbered.

[Jules9]

I think Mythbusters tested a corked bat in one of their baseball episodes

[schubert1970]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2295922

Jan 19, 2006


Bensinger: Do you think there are those that simply have personal vendettas against you?


“Twenty years after the fact, I used a corked bat. I didn't use no cork bat. I had cork in my arms. ”— Rose on recent rumors that he used a corked bat near the end of his career


Rose: Well, I don't know about vendettas. You know, there are some people in this world that don't think I could hit. I cheated to get hits. Now, all of a sudden, I used corked bats -- is that why I hit all those damn home runs? Because I used corked bats? Twenty years after the fact, I used a corked bat. I didn't use no cork bat. I had cork in my arms.

[schubert1970]

A few more funny quotes about corked bats from Pete.

Rose, at the end of his career and desparately wanting to break Ty Cobb's hit record, used a corked bat. Tommy said he asked Pete what would happen if the bat broke and Pete responded, laughing, "there will be f*****g cork all over the field."

The thing I love is how Sosa wants us to believe that's the one time he ever went to the plate with a corked bat," Rose says, laughing. "I have a friend who works in that clubhouse. He told me there were 79 other bats in there with cork in them. Seventy-nine. "It was like a Chinese fire drill to get rid of all them bats."

[dcrules01]

Awesome story photomatch . So are you keeping the bat or sending it to an auction? Great pickup either way :cool:

[schubert1970]

Awesome story photomatch . So are you keeping the bat or sending it to an auction? Great pickup either way :cool:

I plan on keeping the bat. Cork or no cork, I think the PR4192 is a great model.

[tacprc]

Chuck,

The photo credit is on the inside cover. The pic was taken by Bob Bartosz. He told me he took the picture, but couldn't tell me what ballpark it was taken in.

Bill

OK. Thx. Theoretically Bob should be able to find the photo negative and tell you when he took the picture.
p.s. I met Bob once. I flew to Philadelphia for the first Sportsfest. Bob picked me up at the airport and drove me to his house. I bought a Rose bat from him. I think it was a model R3631, definitely not a PR4192.

[schubert1970]

OK. Thx. Theoretically Bob should be able to find the photo negative and tell you when he took the picture.
p.s. I met Bob once. I flew to Philadelphia for the first Sportsfest. Bob picked me up at the airport and drove me to his house. I bought a Rose bat from him. I think it was a model R3631, definitely not a PR4192.

I wrote Bob a couple of times and he recognized the photo he took, but said he took 1,000s of Rose pictures and he wouldn't be able to look at all of them. I told him the photo was in 1985 and asked if he could just tell me what park the photo was taken in. I never received a response.

My hunch is the pic was taken in Philly only because of his location and the other photos he has taken seem to be in Philly.

[tacprc]

Steve / Cowboy John,

Please don't take offense, but I am wondering whether your PR4192 bat is a game model as opposed to a replica.

Your bat has a mushroom knob. Bill's doesn't. I also have photos of PR4192 bats from Greg Walker and Chris Smith, and their bats look like Bill's.

Does your bat have the letter "A" stamped into the knob?

Thanks.
Chuck

[tacprc]

Steve / Cowboy John,

Please ignore my last post.

I just got off the phone with Bill, and he pointed me to the American Memorabilia website where there is a slightly larger photo of your bat's knob.

I can fairly clearly see the A there.

Chuck

[CowboyJohn]

Steve / Cowboy John,

Please ignore my last post.

I just got off the phone with Bill, and he pointed me to the American Memorabilia website where there is a slightly larger photo of your bat's knob.

I can fairly clearly see the A there.

Chuck


No problem Chuck. He used both style knobs in 1985. I did some fairly extensive research before I bid on the bat. I did even more than I normally would have because it was being auctioned off by AMI.

Shortly after I received the bat, I went to a signing to meet Rose, and had some pictures taken of him with the bat. I posted the stroy of the meeting here months back. He asked me how I got the bat, instantly recognizing it as one of his gamers. He was NOT happy about the fact Bobby Wine sold it and made money on a nice "gift" he (Rose) had given him. He turned to Rod Carew and told him it was a gamer of his he had given to his old coach, and Rod just shook his head. Tony Gwynn, who was sitting there too blurted out "I would have sold it to. You're WORTH a lot of money!" It was pretty funny, but Rose wasn't laughing.

Here he is holding the bat...

[tacprc]

Steve, Thanks for the story and the pictures. Chuck

[schubert1970]

http://reds.enquirer.com/2004/01/13/red2qa.html


Q. The book has brought forth some of your accusers again. Your former friend, Tommy Gioiosa says you were using a corked bat when you were chasing Ty Cobb's hit record in 1985. He also said that 1985 is the year you financed a cocaine deal. He said he picked up $50,000 cash at your house, drove to Florida, and that seven days later he brought you $100,000 in a Gold Gym's bag. Everybody held you up on pedestal in '85 when you on the verge of breaking Cobb's all-time hit record. These sorts of accusations tarnish that pursuit, don't they?
A. You know what I would tell you to do? Go up to (memorabilila seller) Steve Wolter (in Montgomery) and get that 4,192 bat and take it to an examiner and see if there's any cork in it. I guarantee you there won't be. ... If somebody has a corked bat that has my name on it, bring it on down.

[spartakid]

http://reds.enquirer.com/2004/01/13/red2qa.html


Q. The book has brought forth some of your accusers again. Your former friend, Tommy Gioiosa says you were using a corked bat when you were chasing Ty Cobb's hit record in 1985. He also said that 1985 is the year you financed a cocaine deal. He said he picked up $50,000 cash at your house, drove to Florida, and that seven days later he brought you $100,000 in a Gold Gym's bag. Everybody held you up on pedestal in '85 when you on the verge of breaking Cobb's all-time hit record. These sorts of accusations tarnish that pursuit, don't they?
A. You know what I would tell you to do? Go up to (memorabilila seller) Steve Wolter (in Montgomery) and get that 4,192 bat and take it to an examiner and see if there's any cork in it. I guarantee you there won't be. ... If somebody has a corked bat that has my name on it, bring it on down.

Looks like some people need to take a road trip to Pete's and bring 'em down to him.

[CowboyJohn]

Looks like some people need to take a road trip to Pete's and bring 'em down to him.


Well, after some soul searching when I discovered my bat was corked, I did (see pictures above). But I decided that I just wasn't important enough in the grand scheme of things to embarrass him by sticking his gamer in his face, having him sing praise over the "nice bat you got there", involve Rod Carew and Tony Gwynn (and Tony Gwynn Jr., too) in a conversation on how disappointed he was his old coach sold this gift to make money on him.

You see, God help me, I like Pete Rose. I know the man is flawed, maybe more than most...maybe not. But he is a personable guy, friendly as hell to his fans. He takes time to talk to you. He makes you feel good because he doesn't treat you like a paycheck, like some a-holes do (Reggie Jackson, Jim Brown, Rod Carew, etc.)

I know that's not a reason for excusing him for doing something illegal in our great game, but he didn't get his base hits by sticking a needle in his ass to make himself stronger, with little possibility of having a down day due to being "artificially fresh" every day. He did it with raw talent, and longevity. He hustled his way through a long wonderful career, and I just don't place much value on the fact he may have earned a few of his 4,256 hits with the questionable aid of "cork" performance enhanced bats. There really is no proof or evidence, other than a few episodes on the field where a very small number of pro ball players wished they hadn't used one when the little secret broke all over the infield grass, that corked bats do anything worthwhile for a batter. He was absolutely one of the greatest contact hitters the game has ever seen. Add to that the fact he is still standing, after all he's been through (yes, and all self-inflicted), I can't help but like the guy. If only somewhere along his depressing journey, he would have found some sincere remorse, and was truly able to spew out a humble apology to everyone...I think he would have been reinstated by now. But we all saw a whole different approach, and bad timing from taking an opportunity to make money by selling a book. He just can't seem to get his footing down in this dance called life.

But the fact Pete used one of these little altered beauties at such a historic and overwhelmingly important time in his career, with baseball history on the line, and his standing and respect in life for that matter, just shows us how out of control he was personally. To laugh it off when questioned by Tommy Gioiosa what he would do if one broke....is just mind-boggling. He really must have thought he could do no wrong.

I never wanted to have any part, no matter how small or insignificant, in detracting from Pete's chances of reinstatement and ultimate election to the Hall of Fame that would no doubt bring. But as someone once said to me "It's not you that did this...It was Pete Rose."

[CowboyJohn]

Well, after some soul searching when I discovered my bat was corked, I did (see pictures above). But I decided that I just wasn't important enough in the grand scheme of things to embarrass him by sticking his gamer in his face, having him sing praise over the "nice bat you got there", involve Rod Carew and Tony Gwynn (and Tony Gwynn Jr., too) in a conversation on how disappointed he was his old coach sold this gift to make money on him......only to say in front of them all, and anyone in ear shot "Hey, Pete, by the way....check out this X-ray I took of your bat! What's up with the cork here, Mr. Rose??"

I left out the highlighted portion above at the end of the first paragraph, sorry!

[spartakid]

I see what you mean, maybe if it were in a less public place, but yea; you definitely wouldn't want to call him out in front of everyone. I would be interested to know what he would say though.

[CowboyJohn]

I see what you mean, maybe if it were in a less public place, but yea; you definitely wouldn't want to call him out in front of everyone. I would be interested to know what he would say though.

Well, with Bill's photo-match find, we all may get that chance soon if some media network finds this interesting enough. After all, accusations are what makes the media churn.

But proof....that's a whole different beast.

[spartakid]

I would assume that someone would think it interesting enough to publish. The one thing that I can't figure out about this is the fact that Pete would let these bats get out. I mean if I were doing something like this, I would guard these bats with my life, and destroy them after I was done with them. I mean to let all these bats get out there and he had to know that it was probably inevitable that someone would find out eventually. BTW, do you think it will cause a decline in the value of his bats, increase the value, or do nothing. Normally I would say go down, but with Pete's bad rep already, it may not affect it too much.

[CowboyJohn]

Another thought...

Any carbon dating experts here on the forum?

I have read some on the process, but it's unclear from what I've read if carbon dating the materials on/in these (now 25 years old bats) could result in accurate confirmation that the cork was placed in these bats close to the time they were made.

If so, that would eliminate the need to find the conclusive barrel-end shot of Bill's bat. If we could find a photo of the number 14 on the end of the barrel, and photo match it without question to Bill's as was done with the knob "14", that would leave no question that that bat, on the cover of Beckett's magazine, photo-matched as the very same one Bill now owns, did in fact possess cork inside of it the moment that photo was taken.

We're working on it.

But if anyone knows if carbon dating works in such a short time frame, that would be helpful. In general, the longer the time passed, the better results carbon dating achieves. I don't know if 25 years is even measurable from what I've read.

P.S. Note to Bud Selig...If you come asking for either Bill or I to send you our bats for examination, I think I can speak for Bill too: Go pound SAND. If you want to start working on your legacy, start by overturning Jim Joyce's blown call in the perfect game that...wasn't. Do SOMETHING right and worthwhile before your reign at the helm of America's pastime is over.

[CowboyJohn]

I would assume that someone would think it interesting enough to publish. The one thing that I can't figure out about this is the fact that Pete would let these bats get out. I mean if I were doing something like this, I would guard these bats with my life, and destroy them after I was done with them. I mean to let all these bats get out there and he had to know that it was probably inevitable that someone would find out eventually. BTW, do you think it will cause a decline in the value of his bats, increase the value, or do nothing. Normally I would say go down, but with Pete's bad rep already, it may not affect it too much.

I thought about everything you asked in the period of about 3 months after I discovered my bat was corked. Now that almost three years has passed, I can answer with a much more constructive answer.

First off, I think Pete, possessing the wreckless personality he has, probably felt that the guys he gave these bats to were "safe". I mean, I'm fairly sure he didn't just hand them out to anyone who asked. He probably felt giving one to Bobby Wine, the interim manager of the Braves in last September just after he broke Ty Cobb's record was a safe bet. After all, what would his old coach do, give it away? Hell no.

But much to Pete's dismay, he did apparently sell it. And if he didn't sell it, he must have given it away to someone who did. So Pete made an error in judgement.

I'm sure Bill could lay the same kind of story on you all about his bat. As I recall, the bat has a very detailed trail of limited ownership, given by Pete to it's first owner, then ownership eventually transfering ONCE to Steve Wolter. So that would tell me the original person Pete gave this (now photo-matched) bat to was a close friend or family member. Maybe he just felt it would never be discovered, and even if it was, he could then joke about it with them? I know that's a stretch, but it's a bit more reasonable than just letting your corked bats out there.

But it appears that's exactly what happened. You have to remember, 25 years ago, these items didn't hold the value they do today. When the value of these game used items started to rise exponentially, these little gems he may have felt he placed in "safe" hands started to enter the public auctions. After all, they didn't know the bats were corked, and it took over 20 years of natural aging for the plug in the end of mine to show (a little evaporation of the moisture in the wood and painted over plug now shows the circular separation). A guy who has no experience of what happens with plugged bats after 20-25 years may have felt no one would EVER know. I mean, I'm SURE Pete assumed the folks he gave these bats to wouldn't be out in the backyard hitting grounders to the neighborhood kids with one of his gift gamers, right?

Who know's, it is a very interesting question, all speculation, and one that still baffles me.

As far as the values, I would guess that there are a limited amount of these "corked" bats around. The simple laws of "supply and demand" would state that they should be worth a bit more than a standard rose gamer. How much more? That would depend on how much a collector would be willing to dole out at any given moment in time to own one of these fairly cool pieces of history....pretty much like any other rare piece in our hobby. I know that as a collector of Pete Rose memorabilia, because he was one of the greatest players the game has ever known, I am much happier knowing I own a rare piece of interesting history than just a standard Rose gamer. But make no mistake, they are all fine pieces of history. No matter what happens to Rose in the fait of eventually (or not) being elected into the Hall of Fame....he is, without question, worthy of the status based on his on-field achievements no matter what any of us think about the guy as a member of society off the field.

[spartakid]

Well put Steve. These bats are older than I am, so I never got to see Pete play, but hearing about him, I'm guessing that he wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer and you're right, he just GOT a bit careless and let them out. I have seen studies on the corked bat idea and I remember hearing that a ball hit on the screws with homerun distance would only gain five to ten feet on average distance. Definitely better to find out that some corked instead of juiced...

[Rich Ellis]

Corked bat myth - When I am not authenticating jerseys or selling them I am bat rep for MaxBats and have been now for 2.5 years. We have over 700 professional ball players using our bats and we make over 200 models.

With that said I discussed at length about a year ago about corked bats and if there was any advantage in using them. We concluded that once someone drills into the bat and takes mass out of the bat you are weakening the bat overall. Hence the ball will not travel as far corked compared to a normal bat. The more mass/density behind the swing coming through the hitting zone will result in balls that go further. We always recommend to the younger ball players to swing as heavy a bat as they can for this very reason.

Once you start getting past that minus 2 differential of weight to length, a bat manufacturer must dry out the bat, again making the bat weaker. Its really about moisture content in the bat that gives the bats it's weight and its strength also in accordance to the number of grain lines in the bat, even though not totally proven about grain lines. But some major league ball players want less grain lines.

Corking does one thing for the hitter it makes the bat lighter which would let the hitter get through the zone quicker and that's it.

I do understand why Rose would clean his bats after games, it makes perfect sense in what he explains. We see a lot of major league ball players look at their bats and see where they are making contact. Some ball players also liked their bats unfinished so they can bone the bat. Which is actually compressing about 1/16" of the bat surface, making the surface harder and less susceptible to surface damage hence baseball lace impressions left on the bat.

This is a very cool story and bat.

[carct]

From Mythbusters website

http://dsc.discovery.com/fansites/mythbusters/db/sports/corked-bat-makes-baseball-fly-farther.html

[schubert1970]

Corked bat myth - When I am not authenticating jerseys or selling them I am bat rep for MaxBats and have been now for 2.5 years. We have over 700 professional ball players using our bats and we make over 200 models.

With that said I discussed at length about a year ago about corked bats and if there was any advantage in using them. We concluded that once someone drills into the bat and takes mass out of the bat you are weakening the bat overall. Hence the ball will not travel as far corked compared to a normal bat. The more mass/density behind the swing coming through the hitting zone will result in balls that go further. We always recommend to the younger ball players to swing as heavy a bat as they can for this very reason.

Once you start getting past that minus 2 differential of weight to length, a bat manufacturer must dry out the bat, again making the bat weaker. Its really about moisture content in the bat that gives the bats it's weight and its strength also in accordance to the number of grain lines in the bat, even though not totally proven about grain lines. But some major league ball players want less grain lines.

Corking does one thing for the hitter it makes the bat lighter which would let the hitter get through the zone quicker and that's it.

I do understand why Rose would clean his bats after games, it makes perfect sense in what he explains. We see a lot of major league ball players look at their bats and see where they are making contact. Some ball players also liked their bats unfinished so they can bone the bat. Which is actually compressing about 1/16" of the bat surface, making the surface harder and less susceptible to surface damage hence baseball lace impressions left on the bat.

This is a very cool story and bat.

Rich - Txs for the expert opinion and great info. Maybe the whole point of doing this was to get the through the zone quicker as you stated, especially if he didn't belive he could keep up.

Bill

[Mark17]

I thought about everything you asked in the period of about 3 months after I discovered my bat was corked. Now that almost three years has passed, I can answer with a much more constructive answer.

First off, I think Pete, possessing the wreckless personality he has, probably felt that the guys he gave these bats to were "safe". I mean, I'm fairly sure he didn't just hand them out to anyone who asked. He probably felt giving one to Bobby Wine, the interim manager of the Braves in last September just after he broke Ty Cobb's record was a safe bet. After all, what would his old coach do, give it away? Hell no.

But much to Pete's dismay, he did apparently sell it. And if he didn't sell it, he must have given it away to someone who did. So Pete made an error in judgement.



That was my first thought when you mentioned how upset he ws that the bat had been given away. Maybe part of the reason was that it was a bummer to hear that a gift to a friend had later been sold for money, but also, perhaps he was concerned about the idea of one of his corked bats being out in general circulation.

Pete's still hopeful of making the HOF. Last thing he needs is another scandal involving his career, so seeing that kind of evidence floating around must've been somewhat disturbing to him.

[ironmanfan]

Pete's still hopeful of making the HOF. Last thing he needs is another scandal involving his career, so seeing that kind of evidence floating around must've been somewhat disturbing to him.

Rose could have added lead to his bats to make them heavier and he still wouldn't have a prayer's chance at enshrinement.............

[33bird]

Every game used item I've shown to Pete he acts like it's fake and does his best to make you feel like you bought something stupid and HE NEVER gave anything away or sold anything either. He's full of crap. I think he wishes he would have kept everything for himself so he could be selling it all right now instead of signing autographs 4 days a week at a mall. Just my 2 cents.

[CowboyJohn]

Have you guys seen what Pete Rose is selling in Lelands July 9th auction?

How about his record setting last hit bat, #4256?

Starting bid.....$75,000.

I just don't understand why he would want to let that piece go. I know unloaded a lot of "stuff" in years past to pay off gambling debts. I sure hope that's not what this is about. This bat is a priceless piece of history. I am sad to see Pete is selling it. That bat should always belong to him, or someone in his family. It just doesn't feel right that he's selling it. But that's just me.

[skinsfan0521]

Have you guys seen what Pete Rose is selling in Lelands July 9th auction?

How about his record setting last hit bat, #4256?

Starting bid.....$75,000.

I just don't understand why he would want to let that piece go. I know unloaded a lot of "stuff" in years past to pay off gambling debts. I sure hope that's not what this is about. This bat is a priceless piece of history. I am sad to see Pete is selling it. That bat should always belong to him, or someone in his family. It just doesn't feel right that he's selling it. But that's just me.
Or at least in the HOF if nobody in his family owns it. That is sad, but I'm sure that somebody will end up with an amazing piece of memorabilia.

Now, the winner needs to x-ray that bat! haha

[CowboyJohn]

Well.....things just got real serious.

Check out the link below.

"DEADSPIN.COM" just put out a lenghthy article. God only knows where this goes from here.


http://deadspin.com/5555714/this-is-pete-roses-corked-bat

[tacprc]

Have you guys seen what Pete Rose is selling in Lelands July 9th auction?

I know unloaded a lot of "stuff" in years past to pay off gambling debts. I sure hope that's not what this is about. This bat is a priceless piece of history. I am sad to see Pete is selling it. That bat should always belong to him, or someone in his family. It just doesn't feel right that he's selling it. But that's just me.


How do you know he was selling his property to pay off gambling debts, and not to buy a car or a house or pay some other household expense?

[Rob L]

Well.....things just got real serious.

Check out the link below.

"DEADSPIN.COM" just put out a lenghthy article. God only knows where this goes from here.


http://deadspin.com/5555714/this-is-pete-roses-corked-bat

Wow, great article. It will be interesting to see if this goes anywhere.

[tacprc]

Well.....things just got real serious.

Check out the link below.

"DEADSPIN.COM" just put out a lenghthy article. God only knows where this goes from here.


http://deadspin.com/5555714/this-is-pete-roses-corked-bat

We are again reminded what happens when online journalists produce a story. They went to print without getting a comment from Pete. They state that the cover photo was taken during the July 4th weekend without any evidence. They state that he actually used the bat in a game, rather than batting practice, without any evidence. etc. etc.

[tacprc]

[quote=CowboyJohn;204062]Have you guys seen what Pete Rose is selling in Lelands July 9th auction?

How about his record setting last hit bat, #4256?

Starting bid.....$75,000.

I just don't understand why he would want to let that piece go.

The Lelands website indicates that this piece is coming from the Richard Angrist Collection not from Pete directly. It appears that Pete sold this bat to Lelands sometime in the past, and they sold it to Richard Angrist.

[CowboyJohn]

How do you know he was selling his property to pay off gambling debts, and not to buy a car or a house or pay some other household expense?

Chuck,

I have to say, I love the fact that you are so loyal to Mr. Rose. I like him too, as stated earlier.

But the debt problems he was going through, around 1986, mainly created by mounting gambling losses, is so well documented.... in the Dowd report, in general in articles, interviews, Tommy Gioiosa's statements, understandings expressed by guys who knew Rose well like Steve Wolter...I just think there's little reason to enter into a debate over this issue. I mean, it's the whole reason behind Pete doing a lot of the things he did, IMO. I don't think a guy who is baseball royalty, about to break (and even after he broke) one of baseball greatest records....is going to consider financing a cocaine deal because he's sitting phat and happy with ton's of money in his bank accounts. He was warned by associates to write checks under $10K so they wouldn't be identified...and therfore questioned...by the IRS...ALL to pay off debts. It's all out there, just Google it.

That said, I feel a bit blue today. With his documentary coming out this summer, this should be a good time for Pete, and instead he's having to deal with another bad revelation. I hope that the general public and most who don't even follow this great sport understand that corking a bat, although against MLB rules, just doesn't amount to much in the grand scheme of his achievements on the field. As argued here, for all we know they may have detracted from them.

[CowboyJohn]

We are again reminded what happens when online journalists produce a story. They went to print without getting a comment from Pete. They state that the cover photo was taken during the July 4th weekend without any evidence. They state that he actually used the bat in a game, rather than batting practice, without any evidence. etc. etc.


Chuck,

Please......stop.

You are speaking without knowledge.

They did a lot of research. Bill and I have remained fairly silent, because it was not our place to say anything.

They did extensive homework verifying what they had, spoke to the photographer who took that picture (as they referred to him by name in their article), stated the obvious that Pete in on deck, as that's what they were told by the photog, and he is wearing a GAME jersey, not a warm-up batting practice jersey.....I mean it's not for deadspin to answer to....the evidence is out there for all to draw their own conclusions with. The ball is now in Pete's court, with his reps, to spin out of.

It will be interesting to see what happens.

Look, I'll go as far as saying this: We are all collectors here. To any of you possibly worried about your Pete Rose items taking a hit due to another onslaught into this man's integrity....take a deep breath and rest easy. Pete Rose, and his hit record, is not going to be discredited by a few of his bats turning up corked. It's old news. But the revelation of proof isn't. So let Pete and his people state what they want. Eventually, it will blow over.

As an owner of one of these little altered gems, it's bitter-sweet. Enough said about that. But Pete's hit record, barring some genetic splice between Cal Ripken Jr. and Ty Cobb entering the baseball scene, will outlive all of us for generations to come. With the higher pressure to perform, and the immense competition to perform to even keep a major league spot on a roster in today's baseball, it's almost inconceivable anyone will break his hit record for decades....if ever. A 24+ year career as an active player who produced like Pete Rose is almost as rare as a perfect game ending and being lost on the last batter incorrectly!

[Mark17]

As an owner of one of these little altered gems, it's bitter-sweet. Enough said about that. But Pete's hit record, barring some genetic splice between Cal Ripken Jr. and Ty Cobb entering the baseball scene, will outlive all of us for generations to come. With the higher pressure to perform, and the immense competition to perform to even keep a major league spot on a roster in today's baseball, it's almost inconceivable anyone will break his hit record for decades....if ever. A 24+ year career as an active player who produced like Pete Rose is almost as rare as a perfect game ending and being lost on the last batter incorrectly!

Going into this season, Jeter was only 15 hits behind Rose at the same age. If Derek Jeter continues his current production another 4 years, when he turns 40 he'll be somewhere around 3,600 hits. Then it will be up to him whether he wants to go for it.

Rose only averaged 130 hits for the 5 years, from age 40 to 44, then tacked on 52 more when he was 45 years old. That would be doable for Derek, who takes fantastic care of himself.

Will Jeter break the record? Probably not. But it is not inconceivable.

[woody1351]

http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/the_sporting_blog/entry/view/68288/corked_bats_reportedly_belonging_to_pete_rose_come _to_light

got on to check my fantasy nascar team and saw this.

[tacprc]

Chuck,

I have to say, I love the fact that you are so loyal to Mr. Rose. I like him too, as stated earlier.

But the debt problems he was going through, around 1986, mainly created by mounting gambling losses, is so well documented.... in the Dowd report, in general in articles, interviews, Tommy Gioiosa's statements, understandings expressed by guys who knew Rose well like Steve Wolter...I just think there's little reason to enter into a debate over this issue. I mean, it's the whole reason behind Pete doing a lot of the things he did, IMO. I don't think a guy who is baseball royalty, about to break (and even after he broke) one of baseball greatest records....is going to consider financing a cocaine deal because he's sitting phat and happy with ton's of money in his bank accounts. He was warned by associates to write checks under $10K so they wouldn't be identified...and therfore questioned...by the IRS...ALL to pay off debts. It's all out there, just Google it.

That said, I feel a bit blue today. With his documentary coming out this summer, this should be a good time for Pete, and instead he's having to deal with another bad revelation. I hope that the general public and most who don't even follow this great sport understand that corking a bat, although against MLB rules, just doesn't amount to much in the grand scheme of his achievements on the field. As argued here, for all we know they may have detracted from them.

Steve, You don't have all the facts. Besides the 4192 hit bat and ball, Pete didn't sell any of his memorabilia until 10 or so years ago. It was all on display in his Boca Raton restaurant called the Pete Rose Ballpark Cafe.
He still owns some of his major awards, World Series rings, etc.

[CowboyJohn]

Going into this season, Jeter was only 15 hits behind Rose at the same age. If Derek Jeter continues his current production another 4 years, when he turns 40 he'll be somewhere around 3,600 hits. Then it will be up to him whether he wants to go for it.

Rose only averaged 130 hits for the 5 years, from age 40 to 44, then tacked on 52 more when he was 45 years old. That would be doable for Derek, who takes fantastic care of himself.

Will Jeter break the record? Probably not. But it is not inconceivable.


Really?

Pete played first base late in his career. As a first baseman, you essentially have a goalie's mitt on to knock down hot shots, and just need to be able to schuffle to first base to catch a throw.

As a shortstop, if you really truly believe Derek Jeter will still have the tools to hold his position, then I think you're fooling yourself. Even if he maintains a strick JennyCraig regimen through his early 40's, there will be at least 10 other young guys with abilities abound to jettizen our beloved Jeter into retirement. Things just start to go. You'd have to do something other than "take care of yourself" to stay a starting major leaguer. Just ask Barry Bonds.

And you're going to ask the New York fans to hang around for 4-5 years of a guy performing at 60% so that he can make an attempt to reach this amazing unreachable feat?

I'll give you that it's not impossible.

But it's beyond highly unlikely.

[tacprc]

Chuck,

Please......stop.

You are speaking without knowledge.

They did a lot of research. Bill and I have remained fairly silent, because it was not our place to say anything.

They did extensive homework verifying what they had, spoke to the photographer who took that picture (as they referred to him by name in their article), stated the obvious that Pete in on deck, as that's what they were told by the photog, and he is wearing a GAME jersey, not a warm-up batting practice jersey.....I mean it's not for deadspin to answer to....the evidence is out there for all to draw their own conclusions with. The ball is now in Pete's court, with his reps, to spin out of.

It will be interesting to see what happens.

Look, I'll go as far as saying this: We are all collectors here. To any of you possibly worried about your Pete Rose items taking a hit due to another onslaught into this man's integrity....take a deep breath and rest easy. Pete Rose, and his hit record, is not going to be discredited by a few of his bats turning up corked. It's old news. But the revelation of proof isn't. So let Pete and his people state what they want. Eventually, it will blow over.

As an owner of one of these little altered gems, it's bitter-sweet. Enough said about that. But Pete's hit record, barring some genetic splice between Cal Ripken Jr. and Ty Cobb entering the baseball scene, will outlive all of us for generations to come. With the higher pressure to perform, and the immense competition to perform to even keep a major league spot on a roster in today's baseball, it's almost inconceivable anyone will break his hit record for decades....if ever. A 24+ year career as an active player who produced like Pete Rose is almost as rare as a perfect game ending and being lost on the last batter incorrectly!

Steve, I talked to Bill over the weekend. There is no evidence indicating exactly when or where this picture was taken.

[schubert1970]

Steve, I talked to Bill over the weekend. There is no evidence indicating exactly when or where this picture was taken.

At the time we talked I had no additional information. Since then, Barry confirmed with Bob that the photo was taken in Philly between July 4th - July 7th.

Bill

[STLHAMMER32]

Really?

Pete played first base late in his career. As a first baseman, you essentially have a goalie's mitt on to knock down hot shots, and just need to be able to schuffle to first base to catch a throw.

As a shortstop, if you really truly believe Derek Jeter will still have the tools to hold his position, then I think you're fooling yourself. Even if he maintains a strick JennyCraig regimen through his early 40's, there will be at least 10 other young guys with abilities abound to jettizen our beloved Jeter into retirement. Things just start to go. You'd have to do something other than "take care of yourself" to stay a starting major leaguer. Just ask Barry Bonds.

And you're going to ask the New York fans to hang around for 4-5 years of a guy performing at 60% so that he can make an attempt to reach this amazing unreachable feat?

I'll give you that it's not impossible.

But it's beyond highly unlikely.

Jeter might be the only man living who would have the support of New York fans to chase a record such as this. Whether or not he would decide to play to chase the record is a different story. However, Jeter is one of those players who is important to the team far beyond his abilities on the field. He is the ultimate Yankee and is the symbol of the city in alot of ways so it would not just be the performance aspect that fans would look at.... Anyone more famous then Jeter in New York? The man is absolutely loved. I think Jeter will have the license to end his career whenever he wants. Jeter breaking the hit record will likely never happened but I doubt it will be because the fans push him out of the game.

[tacprc]

Also, the article does not say that author talked to Bob Bartosz.

Also, the article says "Before the season, Rose had a box of about 30 black Mizuno bats specially made for him"? Where did they learn that? I have never seen any Mizuno production figures for Pete Rose or any other player.

Plus, as we have discussed, the model PR4192 came with two different knobs. Did the shipment of 30 bats include both knobs, or was one shipped earlier in the season, and the other later?

Also, the article says, "His trademark quick swing not nearly as quick as it used to be, Rose ordered his bats a little lighter than usual to shorten up his motion. The bats were 34 inches long, and weighed 31.6 ounces." Again, where did they learn that the bats weighed 31.6 ounces? That's an odd number. It sounds like weight of one particular PR4192 bat that was recently weighed, not the weight of Rose's bats at the time of shipment.

[tacprc]

At the time we talked I had no additional information. Since then, Barry confirmed with Bob that the photo was taken in Philly between July 4th - July 7th.

Bill

OK, I'll take your word for it, but seems odd. If I got a quote like that from Bob Bartosz, I would have put it right in the article.

I will circle back to Bob, and see what he says.

[CowboyJohn]

Steve, You don't have all the facts. Besides the 4192 hit bat and ball, Pete didn't sell any of his memorabilia until 10 or so years ago. It was all on display in his Boca Raton restaurant called the Pete Rose Ballpark Cafe.
He still owns some of his major awards, World Series rings, etc.


Chuck,

I mentioned earlier that Pete Rose had gambling debt issues to contend with, and he sold "stuff". I didn't specifically refer to his game used stuff, did I? And that wasn't the point of my comment.

For the record, Pete sold a lot of "stuff" in the past, and some of it was "stuff" signed "Pete Rose" by Tommy Gioiosa. Yes Chuck...forged "stuff".

He also sold "stuff" that he would have tagged by Tommy as they were sitting in his living room, and as they marked a specific item Pete had used to reach a specific milestone, or achieve a special feat with, Pete would say things like (and I'm not positive if I have the exact wordage ver batim, but it's close) "We're going to make some serious s%#t on that one!"

My only point in even bringing up the "gambling debt" issue was to bring up the point he had that problem in the past. So...selling TODAY one of the most...no, the VERY most precious piece he owns, his record setting l;ast hit bat, just made me think for a split second that I pray he hasn't fallen back into that kind of a mess again. That would be beyond tragic, and that's all I was saying. I hope he is just selling it because....he wants to sell it.

In regards to the last comment about speaking to Bill this weekend, and not knowing about the date of that picture......Chuck, three world wars have been fought and won between this weekend and today in regards to this bat. And that is just a figure of speech, Chuck. Please don't ask me which three.

The guys at deadspin DID contact the photographer, Bob Bartosz, and Bob confirmed to them, without question, that photo of Pete with that bat was taken BY HIM on JULY 4th, 1985, in Philadelphia while the Reds were visiting the Phillies.

A quick check on baseball-reference.com will verify the fact these two teams played on the weekend, Chuck. I hope this all clarifies things for you.

This is too serious an issue to be posting sympathetic "views" to confuse the readers. We should all try to refrain from waivering from the facts. Pete Rose and his people will have to come out and make a statement on what's out there. The facts are out for everone to see, and I think there's much of a possibility to explain all of these issues away. I don't see a batting cage next to Pete in that picture. I don't see a batting practice jersey. I do see a game jersey, a helmet, a serious looking Pete Rose with a weighted bat getting ready to hit...pretty compelling evidence to the average Joe...

[CowboyJohn]

TYPO ALERT......see underlined highlighted missing word below, my apologies...



This is too serious an issue to be posting sympathetic "views" to confuse the readers. We should all try to refrain from waivering from the facts. Pete Rose and his people will have to come out and make a statement on what's out there. The facts are out for everone to see, and I DON'T think there's much of a possibility to explain all of these issues away. I don't see a batting cage next to Pete in that picture. I don't see a batting practice jersey. I do see a game jersey, a helmet, a serious looking Pete Rose with a weighted bat getting ready to hit...pretty compelling evidence to the average Joe...

[CowboyJohn]

Jeter might be the only man living who would have the support of New York fans to chase a record such as this. Whether or not he would decide to play to chase the record is a different story. However, Jeter is one of those players who is important to the team far beyond his abilities on the field. He is the ultimate Yankee and is the symbol of the city in alot of ways so it would not just be the performance aspect that fans would look at.... Anyone more famous then Jeter in New York? The man is absolutely loved. I think Jeter will have the license to end his career whenever he wants. Jeter breaking the hit record will likely never happened but I doubt it will be because the fans push him out of the game.

I agree wholeheartedly with almost everything you said. Almost.

Anyone more famous than Jeter in New York? I hope you meant "today", because you have Babe Ruth, Sweet Lou, Joe D., and Mickey Mantle chuckling in the clouds if you meant of "all time".

That all said, he still falls way short.

[tacprc]

Chuck,

I mentioned earlier that Pete Rose had gambling debt issues to contend with, and he sold "stuff". I didn't specifically refer to his game used stuff, did I? And that wasn't the point of my comment.

For the record, Pete sold a lot of "stuff" in the past, and some of it was "stuff" signed "Pete Rose" by Tommy Gioiosa. Yes Chuck...forged "stuff".

He also sold "stuff" that he would have tagged by Tommy as they were sitting in his living room, and as they marked a specific item Pete had used to reach a specific milestone, or achieve a special feat with, Pete would say things like (and I'm not positive if I have the exact wordage ver batim, but it's close) "We're going to make some serious s%#t on that one!"

My only point in even bringing up the "gambling debt" issue was to bring up the point he had that problem in the past. So...selling TODAY one of the most...no, the VERY most precious piece he owns, his record setting l;ast hit bat, just made me think for a split second that I pray he hasn't fallen back into that kind of a mess again. That would be beyond tragic, and that's all I was saying. I hope he is just selling it because....he wants to sell it.

Steve, You have no idea when Pete sold his 4256 Hit bat, how he feels about it, or what he did with the money. Pete has been selling items to Lelands for at least the past 10 years. Also, give me an example of one meaningful game used item or award that Pete sold through Tommy Gioiosa.

[CowboyJohn]

Also, the article does not say that author talked to Bob Bartosz.

Also, the article says "Before the season, Rose had a box of about 30 black Mizuno bats specially made for him"? Where did they learn that? I have never seen any Mizuno production figures for Pete Rose or any other player.

Plus, as we have discussed, the model PR4192 came with two different knobs. Did the shipment of 30 bats include both knobs, or was one shipped earlier in the season, and the other later?

Also, the article says, "His trademark quick swing not nearly as quick as it used to be, Rose ordered his bats a little lighter than usual to shorten up his motion. The bats were 34 inches long, and weighed 31.6 ounces." Again, where did they learn that the bats weighed 31.6 ounces? That's an odd number. It sounds like weight of one particular PR4192 bat that was recently weighed, not the weight of Rose's bats at the time of shipment.

Chuck,

Where are you going with all of this?

Do you really think these guys at DEADSPIN would just make this stuff UP as they go? Do you really question whether they did their due diligence and made some calls to Mizuno, checked out what info they got, and then went with it WITHOUT making their list, and checking it twice?

This is, believe it or not, a professional news media who has a responsibility to report facts. They are open to lawsuits if what they print is not reflective of what they were told. And they check out what they are told, otherwise they would be spending all of their time in court instead of posting breaking news in the sports world.

Please...what is your agenda here?

[tacprc]

Chuck,

The guys at deadspin DID contact the photographer, Bob Bartosz, and Bob confirmed to them, without question, that photo of Pete with that bat was taken BY HIM on JULY 4th, 1985, in Philadelphia while the Reds were visiting the Phillies.

A quick check on baseball-reference.com will verify the fact these two teams played on the weekend, Chuck. I hope this all clarifies things for you.

This is too serious an issue to be posting sympathetic "views" to confuse the readers. We should all try to refrain from waivering from the facts. Pete Rose and his people will have to come out and make a statement on what's out there. The facts are out for everone to see, and I think there's much of a possibility to explain all of these issues away. I don't see a batting cage next to Pete in that picture. I don't see a batting practice jersey. I do see a game jersey, a helmet, a serious looking Pete Rose with a weighted bat getting ready to hit...pretty compelling evidence to the average Joe...

deadspin says the July 4th weekend. You say July 4th. It sounds like you have more concrete information than the guy who allegedly talked to Bob Bartosz.

I say "allegedly" because Bob told Bill that he didnt' want to take the time to go through all his negatives to find the Rose photo in question, but he apparently had a change of heart when the deadspin reporter contacted him. Really?

I have sent an email message to Bob. I will let everyone know what I hear back.

Yes, I have checked the 1985 Reds schedule and boxscores on baseball-reference.com. The Reds only played 12 games against the Phillies in 1985 -- six at home, and six on the road.

Going into the series from July 4 through 7, he was batting .286. He went 1 for 9 in the series, and his average dropped to .279.

Pete always wore a batting helmet during batting practice.

I don't know if the Reds wore bp jerseys on the road in 1985. They did in 1984. I have several hundred glossy and wire photos of Pete Rose from 1984-86, but didn't find one from 1985 where he was wearing a bp jersey on the road. I do have some from home (Riverfront).

In the many photos that I have of Pete in the on-deck circle, he is always kneeling.

Is that a green wall or astroturf behind Pete in the Bartosz photo? There seems to be a lot of blue in the background. Are these possibly blue helmets? Neither the Reds nor Phillies had blue uniforms or helmets.

[STLHAMMER32]

I agree wholeheartedly with almost everything you said. Almost.

Anyone more famous than Jeter in New York? I hope you meant "today", because you have Babe Ruth, Sweet Lou, Joe D., and Mickey Mantle chuckling in the clouds if you meant of "all time".

That all said, he still falls way short.

Yes, I mean "today", I guess I should have made that more clear.

[Rich Ellis]

This story is gaining legs.

Deadspin, Yahoo, Cincy's paper, Sporting News and USA TODAY. And
I was just interviewed by WCCO TV and Radio Sports Personality Mike Max on my expert opinion on the photo match and what my thoughts were on the bat. We did a TV spot at the WCCO studios and also did a spot for radio. The radio portion may air today before the Twins game. I don't know when the TV spot will air.

I have been on Maxy's show before over the years and he really likes to talk about sports memorabilia and its always a lot of fun.

I spoke to Bill yesterday for about an hour and it was a pleasure speaking to Bill.

Here is what I told Maxy in my interview, that I believed the photo of Rose holding the bat is in fact the same bat Bill owns. Which I explained to Bill over the phone yesterday.

[kudu]

This story is gaining legs.

Deadspin, Yahoo, Cincy's paper, Sporting News and USA TODAY. And
I was just interviewed by WCCO TV and Radio Sports Personality Mike Max on my expert opinion on the photo match and what my thoughts were on the bat. We did a TV spot at the WCCO studios and also did a spot for radio. The radio portion may air today before the Twins game. I don't know when the TV spot will air.

I have been on Maxy's show before over the years and he really likes to talk about sports memorabilia and its always a lot of fun.

I spoke to Bill yesterday for about an hour and it was a pleasure speaking to Bill.

Here is what I told Maxy in my interview, that I believed the photo of Rose holding the bat is in fact the same bat Bill owns. Which I explained to Bill over the phone yesterday.

Was also on ESPN PTI show today.

[tacprc]

Chuck,

Where are you going with all of this?

Do you really think these guys at DEADSPIN would just make this stuff UP as they go? Do you really question whether they did their due diligence and made some calls to Mizuno, checked out what info they got, and then went with it WITHOUT making their list, and checking it twice?

This is, believe it or not, a professional news media who has a responsibility to report facts. They are open to lawsuits if what they print is not reflective of what they were told. And they check out what they are told, otherwise they would be spending all of their time in court instead of posting breaking news in the sports world.

Please...what is your agenda here?

Who the heck is Barry Petchesky? You can see his work experience here:
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/barry-petchesky/5/452/551
He's had five jobs in the past three years. Hmmm.

And you can read all his brilliant deadspin posts and stories here:
http://deadspin.com/people/barryap/posts/

Here are the titles of his two most recent posts:
College Wrester Condom Bombs Officer With Puke-Filled Rubbers;
Survival Of The Fastest At Citi Field, As Man Robs Kid Of Foul Ball.

So, YES, I would question whether this guy has properly researched this story and presented the facts. For example, I really doubt that he talked with the Mizuno bat factory in Japan and got their 1985 shipping records for Pete Rose. I guess it's possible that The Sporting News or some other reputable source stated that Mizuno sent Pete 30 new bats at the start of the 1985 season, but I have never seen such an article.

[CollectGU]

Who the heck is Barry Petchesky? You can see his work experience here:
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/barry-petchesky/5/452/551
He's had five jobs in the past three years. Hmmm.

And you can read all his brilliant deadspin posts and stories here:
http://deadspin.com/people/barryap/posts/

Here are the titles of his two most recent posts:
College Wrester Condom Bombs Officer With Puke-Filled Rubbers;
Survival Of The Fastest At Citi Field, As Man Robs Kid Of Foul Ball.

So, YES, I would question whether this guy has properly researched this story and presented the facts. For example, I really doubt that he talked with the Mizuno bat factory in Japan and got their 1985 shipping records for Pete Rose. I guess it's possible that The Sporting News or some other reputable source stated that Mizuno sent Pete 30 new bats at the start of the 1985 season, but I have never seen such an article.

What is your theory then, this bat and Steve's bat, and the bat from Leland's that was notated with Home run # were all BP bats and that Pete used corked BP bats and uncorked bats during the games? or that someone added cork to thse bats after they were used? I'm not understanding your point? Do you not believe the evidence to be overwhelming that Pete corked his bats ?

Dave

[tacprc]

Pete probably did use a corked bat at times in 1985, but reputable news sources shouldn't just sling mud. They need to nail down their facts and provide quotes and footnotes.

It's possible that Pete had a few corked bats for training purposes or just for fun (e.g., during batting practice).

Why did deadspin run the story without a quote from Rose? I heard from a friend that Pete told Barry Petchesky that he would be available for comment tomorrow (Wednesday) so why didn't he wait a day?

[joelsabi]

Pete probably did use a corked bat at times in 1985, but reputable news sources shouldn't just sling mud. They need to nail down their facts and provide quotes and footnotes.

It's possible that Pete had a few corked bats for training purposes or just for fun (e.g., during batting practice).

Why did deadspin run the story without a quote from Rose? I heard from a friend that Pete told Barry Petchesky that he would be available for comment tomorrow (Wednesday) so why didn't he wait a day?

I think the whole idea is having two independent sources to publish the story.
In this case two sources: Bill Schubert and Steve Mears.



Example of Journalist standard.


Reporting rumours

Reuters aims to report the facts, not rumours. Clients rely on us to differentiate between fact and rumour and our reputation rests partly on that. There are, however, times when rumours affect financial markets and we have a duty to tell readers why a market is moving and to try to track down the rumour - to verify it or knock it down. If we hear about a market rumour and it is clearly affecting the market our normal procedure is to:

* Make sure from at least two sources that we are clear what the rumour is without spreading it ourselves.
* Attempt to determine whether it is true or not.
* Write a report, if necessary saying that a spokesman or spokeswoman was unavailable for comment, or that no comment was available and that we are continuing to check. In that report also write why the rumour is moving the market.

[tacprc]

I think the whole idea is having two independent sources to publish the story.
In this case two sources: Bill Schubert and Steve Mears.

The existence of Pete Rose corked bats is not the story. Two different ones have been sold by big-name auction houses.

The photo id of the bat in Rose's hands is the new item here. So you would think that if deadspin was able to tie down the bat to a specific Reds game in 1985, then it would have quoted Bob Bartosz in the article and had additional pictures of Pete from that game or series.

[joelsabi]

The existence of Pete Rose corked bats is not the story. Two different ones have been sold by big-name auction houses.



Two different PR4192 bats were sold by big name auction houses? Was there evidence of cork?

http://lelands.com/Auction.aspx/AuctionDetailed/26961/page1
no mention of cork here.

BTW, the man with the greatest bat collection, Richard Angrest, is selling his Pete Rose bat. Weird timing.

http://lelands.com/Auction.aspx/AuctionDetailed/63970/June-2010-Catalog/Sports/The-Richard-Angrist-Collection/Lot1~Pete-Rose-Mizuno-Game-Used-Bat-Used-to-Set-All-Time-Hit-Record-of-4256-GU10

[CowboyJohn]

The existence of Pete Rose corked bats is not the story. Two different ones have been sold by big-name auction houses.

The photo id of the bat in Rose's hands is the new item here. So you would think that if deadspin was able to tie down the bat to a specific Reds game in 1985, then it would have quoted Bob Bartosz in the article and had additional pictures of Pete from that game or series.


It is my understanding that the photographer, Bob Bartosz is not willing to sell or allow access to any of these July 4th weekend photos.

You figure it out on your own.

Politics?

Pay-off?

A die-hard Rose fan wanting to protect him?.....or something more.

Or.....something way less, like he's older now (which he is) and doesn't want to be bothered going through a trunk full of old negatives in an attic he can't climb into anymore.

I emailed him a very nice letter, and have received no response, which was disappointing. But I have to respect the man's privacy.

In regards to Pete giving a response to DEADSPIN prior to the article coming out, it is my understanding that, if comment in hand, DEADSPIN would be obligated to print Pete Rose's response.

And just what do you think his comment would have been? "Yeah, you got me"?

Somehow I don't think it would fall along those lines. I think (as any rational person understanding the magnitude of this finding may) that it would be a spin of the truth, damage control, and would have been designed by his people to negate, dilute, and discredit the whole story....pretty much like Chuck here has been attempting to do this entire post.

We'll wait and see what Pete has to say as I'm sure he will be interviewed by a media outlet soon. Unfortunately for the baseball community, he will probably be interviewed by a sympathetic media, and the whole "response" with be something found from the rear-end of a 4-legged thoroughbred.

I hope for Pete's sake (no pun intended) that he just for ONCE says it the way it is, and is honest. If it were up to me, and I had the deciding vote, I'd still vote you into the Hall, Pete, even after this news. Do the right thing, getting caught up in another lie would crush ANY gains you have made towards reinstatement!! Fans want you in, so be humble God bless it and shuck off your people's B.S. damage control story certain to surface, and tell us the freakin TRUTH! It would show the world you are a changed man, and being so would maybe sway the geek Bud Selig to actually do something in the direction of reinstaing you.

Here is your chance....show us. Be less of the man you have been, and more of the man everyone wants you be. Honesty, Pete. That's the ticket to the promised land!!!

[platinum1]

Pete probably did use a corked bat at times in 1985, but reputable news sources shouldn't just sling mud. They need to nail down their facts and provide quotes and footnotes.

It's possible that Pete had a few corked bats for training purposes or just for fun (e.g., during batting practice).

Why did deadspin run the story without a quote from Rose? I heard from a friend that Pete told Barry Petchesky that he would be available for comment tomorrow (Wednesday) so why didn't he wait a day?
Tacprc are you Pete Rose?

[joelsabi]

Tacprc are you Pete Rose?

I think he's a Pete Rose collector.

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?p=197832#post197832

who owns this PR4192 bat?

[STLHAMMER32]

The controversy that surrounds Pete is one of the reason he remains talked about as much as he has. It's the reason why young fans know the name Shoeless Joe as well..... If he had just been inducted to the hall of fame, there would be no need to debate it year in and year out. Pete has been able to take full advantage of the hot issues that have surrounded him.

I see really no reason for Pete to deny that he corked bats at the end of his career. We can discuss how using a corked bat only hurt his chances of getting hits anyway. It's something he likely experimented with and the advantage was all in his mind. This story will only bring Pete's name up more in the news. If I were his "people", I would tell him to just embrace it and hell somebody will probably offer another book deal and he can start signing balls "sorry I corked" at his signings for an extra Andrew Jackson.

[schubert1970]

The controversy that surrounds Pete is one of the reason he remains talked about as much as he has. It's the reason why young fans know the name Shoeless Joe as well..... If he had just been inducted to the hall of fame, there would be no need to debate it year in and year out. Pete has been able to take full advantage of the hot issues that have surrounded him.

I see really no reason for Pete to deny that he corked bats at the end of his career. We can discuss how using a corked bat only hurt his chances of getting hits anyway. It's something he likely experimented with and the advantage was all in his mind. This story will only bring Pete's name up more in the news. If I were his "people", I would tell him to just embrace it and hell somebody will probably offer another book deal and he can start signing balls "sorry I corked" at his signings for an extra Andrew Jackson.

Well said!

[schubert1970]

Here is a great pic of Pete I think in late '84 in the on deck circle.

[STLHAMMER32]

Here is a great pic of Pete I think in late '84 in the on deck circle.

Are you sure that this phot in reality was not actually taken in batting practice? It is possible that the bp pitcher suited up in Cubs gear to fully prepare the Reds for what they would be seeing that night.:p

[tacprc]

Two different PR4192 bats were sold by big name auction houses? Was there evidence of cork?

The first Rose corked bat was lot 1038 in the Dec 2005 Lelands auction. Bidding for this lot ended 29-Nov-05.

This bat later re-appeared as lot 82081 in Heritage Auction 716. Bidding for this lot ended on 2-Oct-09.

The second Rose corked bat was lot 800 in the Lelands auction that ended 21-Nov-08.

[tacprc]

Here is a great pic of Pete I think in late '84 in the on deck circle.

OK. Good pic.

fyi, you can tell this is 1984 because Pete has a wrap on his right elbow.

[tacprc]

I think he's a Pete Rose collector.

Yes, I am a Pete Rose fan, researcher, collector, and collectibles checklister.

[joelsabi]

The first Rose corked bat was lot 1038 in the Dec 2005 Lelands auction. Bidding for this lot ended 29-Nov-05.

This bat later re-appeared as lot 82081 in Heritage Auction 716. Bidding for this lot ended on 2-Oct-09.

The second Rose corked bat was lot 800 in the Lelands auction that ended 21-Nov-08.

You are correct sir. You are a very good researcher.

ok read more and there were bats that were corked that went up for sale.

Here is the original listing of the bat in Leland mentioning cork in 2005.
http://www.lelands.com/Auction.aspx/AuctionDetailed/27140/December-2005/Sports/Cincinnati-Reds/Lot1038~1985-Pete-Rose-Game-Used-159th-Homerun-Bat-%28CORKED-%29


Couple of news cast reports.

http://www.wlwt.com/sports/23833800/detail.html
http://www.kypost.com/dpps/sports/baseball/reds/did-pete-rose-use-a-corked-bat%3F_4643002

I noticed that news on tv have higher standards of reporting than blogs.

I left an post on the Beckett blog asking if they know the date of the photo and what was the deadline for submitting photos for that Sept 1985 Beckett. Hopefully it gets a reply from Beckett. I dont think bloggers have editors that decide whether a story get published or not on the internet.

[schubert1970]

Sometimes the simplest explination is the correct one.

I don't have much more to say so this will be my last post on this topic. After watching some television reports that reported very little and obiously dismissed the entire deadspin report (but had no problem using the x-ray pictures), I sent my comments to them and I wanted to share them with you.

Dear Mr. Broo

My name is Bill Schubert and I was the one who purchased the Pete Rose bat from Mr. Wolter.

I've seen two of your report pieces this evening about the bat in question. I think the question that should be asked to Rose is why are there now 6 verifiable PR4192 models around the country with cork (one person is a bat expert from PSA/DNA John Taube)? Did all of use do this to conspire against Pete? We don't even know each other. All of us came together through an on-line game used forum and consolidated our findings. With this in mind and my photo matched bat (unlike the Leland auction bat) being used in a game by Pete Rose in 1985, at some point logic tells you all this can't be a coincidence.

Sincerely,

Bill Schubert

[platinum1]

Being a special year for Pete Rose How hard would it be to find video of the games?

[joelsabi]

Being a special year for Pete Rose How hard would it be to find video of the games?

There a people that recorded games back in the days based on video trading forums. I found someone with a 7/11/1985 tape but nothing from the July 4th weekend. Maybe contacting a local Philadelphia network and see what they have.

[CowboyJohn]

Sometimes the simplest explination is the correct one.

I don't have much more to say so this will be my last post on this topic. After watching some television reports that reported very little and obiously dismissed the entire deadspin report (but had no problem using the x-ray pictures), I sent my comments to them and I wanted to share them with you.

Dear Mr. Broo

My name is Bill Schubert and I was the one who purchased the Pete Rose bat from Mr. Wolter.

I've seen two of your report pieces this evening about the bat in question. I think the question that should be asked to Rose is why are there now 6 verifiable PR4192 models around the country with cork (one person is a bat expert from PSA/DNA John Taube)? Did all of use do this to conspire against Pete? We don't even know each other. All of us came together through an on-line game used forum and consolidated our findings. With this in mind and my photo matched bat (unlike the Leland auction bat) being used in a game by Pete Rose in 1985, at some point logic tells you all this can't be a coincidence.

Sincerely,

Bill Schubert


Bill,

Nice job. Unfortunately your common sense approach will be totally avoided by any and all media.

I've found out something fairly discouraging while this whole corked-bat issue has unfolded, although I must say it's not really all that surprising.

As in other Union based fields of employment, there seems to an unspoken form of "brotherhood" that bonds people together in an effort to hold back outsiders who happen to trip upon an issue that blackens the eye of one of their own.

I find it strange that this Bob Bartosz guy won't allow anyone access to his photo archive, whatever the situation may be. I offered him a fee, an undetermined amount so as to let him set the price, to possibly find other pictures of Bill's bat. He made it clear to Bill, myself, and the people at DEADSPIN.com that he wouldn't be involved. Then you get that new media piece Bill was referring to which totally lays out "doubt" that there is anything concrete that points to Pete's guilt of using a corked bat.

That's all fine. We know what we have, and some silly dude who dies his hair red and sits in front of a TV camera spewing out biased comments that there is no proof, when in fact there is now, just seems to go along with the brotherhood. They must feel the need to keep their "clique" intact.

I could care less. I have a Pete Rose corked bat. And hopefully one day I will be as lucky as Bill and find a photo match of it too. But I do know this: I understand now why, when I brought the bat to a signing to meet Pete and ask him to take a few pictures with the bat, he was visable concerned with the fact the bat was no longer in Bobby Wine's possession. He asked me where I got it. He asked me how much I paid for it. He at one point took his finger and started to rub over the inscription on the bat while he looked at me and said "Why don't you remove all of this and just leave my signature?" I told him noooo, that it added value and provenance to the bat. He looked consternated (for proper checklisting Chuck, that's consternated, not constipated), and it all seems pretty clear to me why.

[tacprc]

Bill,

I find it strange that this Bob Bartosz guy won't allow anyone access to his photo archive, whatever the situation may be. I offered him a fee, an undetermined amount so as to let him set the price, to possibly find other pictures of Bill's bat. He made it clear to Bill, myself, and the people at DEADSPIN.com that he wouldn't be involved.

fyi, I am still exchanging emails with Bob Bartosz, but he did say, "That color photo was on Kodak Slide Film. I sold all my Slides 50 or 60 thousand of them about 10 or so years ago."

So, that's why he can't be more helpful.

[CowboyJohn]

fyi, I am still exchanging emails with Bob Bartosz, but he did say, "That color photo was on Kodak Slide Film. I sold all my Slides 50 or 60 thousand of them about 10 or so years ago."

So, that's why he can't be more helpful.

Thanks for that info. I don't know why he couldn't have sent me a return email staing that himself.

[Rob L]

Wow, your story was just reported by Robin Quivers on the Howard Stern show. Crazy.

[tigerdale]

glad I just read all this....how interesting!!!

[tacprc]

fyi, this was the featured talk-radio topic on WLW 700 radio in Cincinnati today for two hours between 11 am and 1 pm.

Barry Petchesky was interviewed for about 10 minutes beginning at 11:05 am.

[STLHAMMER32]

Steve, You don't have all the facts. Besides the 4192 hit bat and ball, Pete didn't sell any of his memorabilia until 10 or so years ago. It was all on display in his Boca Raton restaurant called the Pete Rose Ballpark Cafe.
He still owns some of his major awards, World Series rings, etc.

According to the seller of this bat. Pete was selling items 25 years ago.....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170497241675&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

[yankees506]

About to be reported by ESPN's arround the horn

[spartakid]

About to be reported by ESPN's arround the horn

That's forum member Greg Walker

[tacprc]

According to the seller of this bat. Pete was selling items 25 years ago.

I was talking about important awards; World Series rings; World Series and All-Star Game bats; bats, balls, and jerseys from significant games; etc.

However, it is true that Pete sold some of the items related to his 4191 and 4192 Hit games.

I have read that Pete sold to Greg Walker's father, Dennis, the S. Rae Hickok Award belt that he was given for being named the 1975 Professional Athlete of the Year by a panel of 250 national sports writers.

And he might have sold other significant items to Dennis Walker. I don't know. Greg may have a list.

In the late 1970's or early 1980's Pete also began selling his own uniforms, bats, and equipment. However, it might have been the case that friends of Pete, like Whitie Willenborg, were really driving the business in order to enrich themselves. I don't know.

[33bird]

My dad bought most of Pete Rose's stuff back in the mid-80s. He was master of ceremonies at the opening of my dad's sports museum in Medford, Oregon back in 1984 or 85. I'm gonna get the inventory list from my mom soon of what he had in there, but I know he had many of his bats, jerseys, rings, baseballs, etc. and of course the Hickock belt. I know my dad believed he had the record breaking mizuno bat too, but I'm not sure that he did. Maybe Pete just told him that. It talks about it in this SI magazine back in 1989. I think it says 2 or 3 different thought they had the record breaking bat. I don't think Pete was always honest about what he sold to people. Just my 2 cents. This is the SI.

[33bird]

Now Zane Burns has one on ebay for 100k. The corked Mizunos are coming out of the woodwork now!

[rj_lucas]

Heritage is auctioning the jersey Rose worn for his 4000th hit, and after reading this thread, I had to chuckle when I read this in the Heritage auction listing:

"All shenanigans aside, Pete Rose stands alone as the game's most prolific hitter, holder of what is arguably the most important record in the sport. That's an honest, incredible achievement, completely unsullied by any misdeeds."

Rick
rickjlucas@gmail.com

[CowboyJohn]

Heritage is auctioning the jersey Rose worn for his 4000th hit, and after reading this thread, I had to chuckle when I read this in the Heritage auction listing:

"All shenanigans aside, Pete Rose stands alone as the game's most prolific hitter, holder of what is arguably the most important record in the sport. That's an honest, incredible achievement, completely unsullied by any misdeeds."

Rick
rickjlucas@gmail.com

Ouch...

Obviously that description was written before Bill's post hit and became public.

I think this is kind of a good time to revisit a thread from last year, close to this time.... post 45 would be a fairly good starting point, and shed a bit of insight into some of the posts on this thread. Link below...

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=27898&page=5&highlight=pete+rose+corked+bat

[STLHAMMER32]

Now Zane Burns has one on ebay for 100k. The corked Mizunos are coming out of the woodwork now!

Didn't even bother to cover this one up it looks like....wonder what the story is behind it... Was it corked after the fact? Used in BP where it didn't matter? Or did he really just not care and used it in a game that way?

I saw a couple corked bats awhile ago that were claimed to be Sammy Sosa's. It had his number on the knob and appeared to be his writing...what was interesting was that it was a pro model bat only it did not have a name on it....There was just a blank area where the block letters or signature usually would be. Looks like he was cautious not to have his name associated with it but if I remember right the one that broke did have his name. Anyone remember for sure?

[tacprc]

fyi, Earlier this afternoon I talked with Steve Wolter on the phone. He told me that he did not buy the Bill Schubert bat directly from Pete Rose in 1989 -- as was stated in the deadspin article. Rather he bought the bat in 1995 from a person who walked into his store. So there is no direct chain of custody from Rose to Wolter -- a key point in all of this. No one knows who handled the bat between 1985 and 1995, and whether they altered it in any way.

Shortly after the deadspin article appeared Steve asked Barry Petchesky to correct it. I just checked deadspin, and so far Barry has not issued an update. Great reporter!

[tacprc]

I think this is kind of a good time to revisit a thread from last year, close to this time.... post 45 would be a fairly good starting point, and shed a bit of insight into some of the posts on this thread. Link below...

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=27898&page=5&highlight=pete+rose+corked+bat

I stand behind all my comments.

[CowboyJohn]

I just got off the phone with Bill.

Any of you in the Sacramento area should immediately tune in your local CBS and ABC new stations. He just completed two interviews from his home.

They will be aired on the 4:00 o'clock and 5:00 o'clock local news stations (I believe channel 10 and 13, respectively) TODAY.

The news medias led Bill to believe that this will also be aired in San Fran and Los Angeles.

[schubert1970]

fyi, Earlier this afternoon I talked with Steve Wolter on the phone. He told me that he did not buy the Bill Schubert bat directly from Pete Rose in 1989 -- as was stated in the deadspin article. Rather he bought the bat in 1995 from a person who walked into his store. So there is no direct chain of custody from Rose to Wolter -- a key point in all of this. No one knows who handled the bat between 1985 and 1995, and whether they altered it in any way.

Shortly after the deadspin article appeared Steve asked Barry Petchesky to correct it. I just checked deadspin, and so far Barry has not issued an update. Great reporter!

I'm not going to argue chain of custody, beacuse this issue with every PR4192, especially anything from Pete and stated by Greg Walker

But I will say that I stand by the words of Steve Wolter himself as stated in my LOA from him and signed by him. "This is one of the finest 4192 game used bats we have ever handled or seen. We guarentee 100% the authenticity of game use."

:D

[CowboyJohn]

fyi, Earlier this afternoon I talked with Steve Wolter on the phone. He told me that he did not buy the Bill Schubert bat directly from Pete Rose in 1989 -- as was stated in the deadspin article. Rather he bought the bat in 1995 from a person who walked into his store. So there is no direct chain of custody from Rose to Wolter -- a key point in all of this. No one knows who handled the bat between 1985 and 1995, and whether they altered it in any way.

Shortly after the deadspin article appeared Steve asked Barry Petchesky to correct it. I just checked deadspin, and so far Barry has not issued an update. Great reporter!


Chuck,

You come on here, against all reasoning and common sense, just to support a guy you apparently idolize, follow, document, etc. That's all good.

What I don't understand is your side of this argument. The chain of custody is going to be questionable for ANY PR4192 unless it came directly from Pete Rose. But here's the problem.

If a guy got the bat directly from Pete, what would he be gaining by then corking it, and selling it to someone else? He wouldn't have gained a thing by his handy work, so what motive or conspiracy makes sense behind an act of this nature?

[STLHAMMER32]

Chuck,

You come on here, against all reasoning and common sense, just to support a guy you apparently idolize, follow, document, etc. That's all good.

What I don't understand is your side of this argument. The chain of custody is going to be questionable for ANY PR4192 unless it came directly from Pete Rose. But here's the problem.

If a guy got the bat directly from Pete, what would he be gaining by then corking it, and selling it to someone else? He wouldn't have gained a thing by his handy work, so what motive or conspiracy makes sense behind an act of this nature?


I could see someone corking a pete rose bat and then selling it as a corked bat to try and make profit off of it being a "Rare" corked bat. However why would someone cork a bat, cover it up with pete's 14 and then make no mention of it when selling....doesn't make much sense.

Defending an idol just as you would a close friend is admirable but at some point the evidence and stories can't all be some weird plot againt him. What would be the point? would it be to ruin Pete's perfect image?!

[CowboyJohn]

tacprc,

Would you pease consider emailing me your phone number so we can chat? I think this topic is too important to litter with unfounded accusations against the original story breaker at DEADSPIN who truly did his homework, around the clock, for a few days, before breaking this story.

You can contact me at the email below.

Thanks,

Steve

stevemears@roadrunner.com

[tacprc]

There's a big difference between Rose possessing corked bats and actually using one in a regular season game.

So it's important to try and find an example that went right from Pete's hands at home plate to another person.

For example, I have heard collectors say that Pete cracked his bat during an at-bat and then handed the bat to them in the stands.

Or photo matching -- including the barrel end of the bat -- might be a good substitute. That was Bill was trying to do.

Note: It's also possible that we're all naive, and lots of players use corked bats, or at least the players who can significantly benefit from using them do. It could be one of baseball's dirty little secrets. As Steve Wolter mentioned in one of his on-camera interviews this past week, MLB doesn't proactively check players bats. It only reacts when one explodes, or a manager lodges a complaint. That being said, Pete doesn't appear to have corked his bats prior to 1985 -- but I guess we'll see about that.

[tacprc]

tacprc,

I think this topic is too important to litter with unfounded accusations against the original story breaker at DEADSPIN who truly did his homework, around the clock, for a few days, before breaking this story.


In my opinion, the deadspin columnist mis-stated when and how Steve Wolter acquired Bill's bat; totally made up the details of Mizuno's spring 1985 shipment of bats to Rose including the number of bats and their weight; and totally made up the date and location of the Bob Bartosz photo showing Pete holding Bill's bat.

I would challenge Mr. Petchesky to produce his sources on those details.

[tacprc]

tacprc,

Would you pease consider emailing me your phone number so we can chat? You can contact me at the email below. Thanks, Steve

stevemears@roadrunner.com

No problem. Done.

[CowboyJohn]

I just got off the phone with Bill.

Any of you in the Sacramento area should immediately tune in your local CBS and ABC new stations. He just completed two interviews from his home.

They will be aired on the 4:00 o'clock and 5:00 o'clock local news stations (I believe channel 10 and 13, respectively) TODAY.

The news medias led Bill to believe that this will also be aired in San Fran and Los Angeles.

Here's the link...Nice interview Bill!!!

http://cbs13.com/local/pete.rose.corked.2.1745162.html

[CowboyJohn]

In my opinion, the deadspin columnist mis-stated when and how Steve Wolter acquired Bill's bat; totally made up the details of Mizuno's spring 1985 shipment of bats to Rose including the number of bats and their weight; and totally made up the date and location of the Bob Bartosz photo showing Pete holding Bill's bat.

I would challenge Mr. Petchesky to produce his sources on those details.

Wow.

No sooner is it syggested that you don't make unfounded accusations, you continue on the same path.

With all due respect, I'm fairly confident in saying your unfounded out-of-the-blue accusations backed by nothing more than your personal experience in handling and documenting Pete Rose items of interest, are starting to come off as a guy trying to bully his way into his 15 minutes of fame.

For a guy who checklist's "everything" Pete Rose, you have posted a few comments that lead one to believe you lack some basic knowledge of well publicized facts regarding Mr. Rose.

You question comments made by members here, contradicting yourself while doing so, then clarifying with "what I was referring to" type comments to squeeze out of the misstep.

There doesn't seem to be a point in the continuance of trying to argue a biased position from a guy hell-bent on supporting the reputation of a man who has some questions to answer. Pet Rose's reputation speaks for itself, and your trying to build the guy up as an unfairly picked-on Saint is misplaced. Legitimate questions about a very few select number of bats which have surfaced, backing statement made years ago by a guy who was as close to Pete as anyone could ever be. These bats have surfaced from different geographical locations, and from people who don't know eachother. There is photographic proof he used a bat that has turned up to be corked. I mean, I'm done. It's Pete Rose's turn.

I'll call to discuss. Thanks for emailing me.

[schubert1970]

fyi, Earlier this afternoon I talked with Steve Wolter on the phone. He told me that he did not buy the Bill Schubert bat directly from Pete Rose in 1989 -- as was stated in the deadspin article. Rather he bought the bat in 1995 from a person who walked into his store. So there is no direct chain of custody from Rose to Wolter -- a key point in all of this. No one knows who handled the bat between 1985 and 1995, and whether they altered it in any way.

Shortly after the deadspin article appeared Steve asked Barry Petchesky to correct it. I just checked deadspin, and so far Barry has not issued an update. Great reporter!

I hate to do this Chuck because I do like Steve and believe he's an honest guy. This is another sentence from my LOA from Steve Wolter.

"We purchased the Rose Mizuno 4192 game used black bat from its only owner on 8/8/09."

Steve told you what he told you for whatever reason, I'm just letting you know what he has actually printed and signed on his LOA. How did he know this was the only owner? This doesn't answer the who custody chain thing because if it was owned by 1 person or 20 there will always be an issue.

If Pete gave this bat to an MLB authenticator and I received it, you would still have an issue because the MLB authenticator could have corked the bat and passed it to me....this is why the cutody argument is lame best.

[schubert1970]

fyi, Earlier this afternoon I talked with Steve Wolter on the phone. He told me that he did not buy the Bill Schubert bat directly from Pete Rose in 1989 -- as was stated in the deadspin article. Rather he bought the bat in 1995 from a person who walked into his store. So there is no direct chain of custody from Rose to Wolter -- a key point in all of this. No one knows who handled the bat between 1985 and 1995, and whether they altered it in any way.

Shortly after the deadspin article appeared Steve asked Barry Petchesky to correct it. I just checked deadspin, and so far Barry has not issued an update. Great reporter!

I hate to do this Chuck because I do like Steve and believe he's an honest guy. This is another sentence from my LOA from Steve Wolter.

"We purchased the Rose Mizuno 4192 game used black bat from its only owner on 8/8/09."

Steve told you what he told you for whatever reason, I'm just letting you know what he has actually printed and signed on his LOA. How did he know this was the only owner? This doesn't answer the whole custody chain thing because if it was owned by 1 person or 20, there will always be an issue.

If Pete gave this bat to an MLB authenticator and I received it, you would still have an issue because the MLB authenticator could have corked the bat and passed it to me....this is why the custody argument is lame best.

[tacprc]

I hate to do this Chuck because I do like Steve and believe he's an honest guy. This is another sentence from my LOA from Steve Wolter.

"We purchased the Rose Mizuno 4192 game used black bat from its only owner on 8/8/09."

Steve told you what he told you for whatever reason, I'm just letting you know what he has actually printed and signed on his LOA. How did he know this was the only owner? This doesn't answer the whole custody chain thing because if it was owned by 1 person or 20, there will always be an issue.

If Pete gave this bat to an MLB authenticator and I received it, you would still have an issue because the MLB authenticator could have corked the bat and passed it to me....this is why the custody argument is lame best.

I don't know why he wrote that. Maybe because he didn't know the name of the guy from whom he bought the bat in 1995. Maybe he did some additional record-checking once this story blew up. Go ahead and call him and ask him. By the way, I was talking with Steve about a related matter his afternoon, and he unsolicited told me that deadspin got the chain of custody wrong. I have known Steve for the past 15 years.

[tacprc]

Wow.

No sooner is it syggested that you don't make unfounded accusations, you continue on the same path.

With all due respect, I'm fairly confident in saying your unfounded out-of-the-blue accusations backed by nothing more than your personal experience in handling and documenting Pete Rose items of interest, are starting to come off as a guy trying to bully his way into his 15 minutes of fame.

For a guy who checklist's "everything" Pete Rose, you have posted a few comments that lead one to believe you lack some basic knowledge of well publicized facts regarding Mr. Rose.

You question comments made by members here, contradicting yourself while doing so, then clarifying with "what I was referring to" type comments to squeeze out of the misstep.

There doesn't seem to be a point in the continuance of trying to argue a biased position from a guy hell-bent on supporting the reputation of a man who has some questions to answer. Pet Rose's reputation speaks for itself, and your trying to build the guy up as an unfairly picked-on Saint is misplaced. Legitimate questions about a very few select number of bats which have surfaced, backing statement made years ago by a guy who was as close to Pete as anyone could ever be. These bats have surfaced from different geographical locations, and from people who don't know eachother. There is photographic proof he used a bat that has turned up to be corked. I mean, I'm done. It's Pete Rose's turn.

I'll call to discuss. Thanks for emailing me.

I can see why you have been banned from the forum in the past.

Let's skip the personal attacks, and stick to the facts.

[schubert1970]

I don't know why he wrote that. Maybe because he didn't know the name of the guy from whom he bought the bat in 1995. Maybe he did some additional record-checking once this story blew up. Go ahead and call him and ask him. By the way, I was talking with Steve about a related matter his afternoon, and he unsolicited told me that deadspin got the chain of custody wrong. I have known Steve for the past 15 years.

Do you think it's possible that Steve doesn't want to upset Pete? If Pete was mad enough at them he could claim their bat isn't the one that broke the record. Do you think Steve has any fear of this knowing Pete's past.

He signed his LOA with detailed information I see no reason to go back and have him reword we he really meant a year after the fact. Should I have him write another LOA because he has a different memory of facts now? Next time he should be more careful what he writes, before he pens his name if he wants his LOA's to have any meaning.

Once again chain of custody is a weak excuse. Here is my example again.....

If Pete gave this bat to an MLB authenticator and I received it, you would still have an issue because the MLB authenticator could have corked the bat and passed it to me.

[tacprc]

Do you think it's possible that Steve doesn't want to upset Pete? If Pete was mad enough at them he could claim their bat isn't the one that broke the record. Do you think Steve has any fear of this knowing Pete's past.

He signed his LOA with detailed information I see no reason to go back and have him reword we he really meant a year after the fact. Should I have him write another LOA because he has a different memory of facts now? Next time he should be more careful what he writes, before he pens his name if he wants his LOA's to have any meaning.

Once again chain of custody is a weak excuse. Here is my example again.....

If Pete gave this bat to an MLB authenticator and I received it, you would still have an issue because the MLB authenticator could have corked the bat and passed it to me.

Do what you want. If someone asks Steve about the LOA in the future, he'll likely say that what he meant to communicate is that on 8/8/09 Sports Investments repurchased the Rose Mizuno 4192 game used black bat from its only owner since Sports Investments originally sold it to him ten years earlier.

Also, I believe that Steve and Adam Wolter have an impeccable reputation in the hobby.

Also, my understanding is that Steve has documented the authenticity of his 4192 Hit bat and ball in every way possible, and Pete has publicly acknowledged on many occasions (and in several published articles) that he sold the bat and ball to Steve.

I take your point as regards chain of custody. Whoever receives a bat directly from Pete's hands could potentially cork it before selling it to another person -- but the corking would have to be consistent with the other known examples and the person would have to forge Pete's number 14 on the barrel end.

[schubert1970]

The Wolter family is the best and I've only bought my big ticket Pete items from them.

That being said we will need to agree that we disagree.

No sense in beating a dead horse, I'm sure the other forum members must be sick and tired of all this. Life goes on......

Bill

[joelsabi]

The Wolter family is the best and I've only bought my big ticket Pete items from them.

That being said we will need to agree that we disagree.

No sense in beating a dead horse, I'm sure the other forum members must be sick and tired of all this. Life goes on......

Bill


Hi Bill,

If you are going to end your thoughts on this thread, I just wanted to know if you were done collecting after this purchase. Thats what I read at least. Is that correct?

[spartanservitto]

I dont think a flurry of people are going to be corking rose bats after they receive them, it's way to coincidental. Also , look who is denying it... it is Pete Rose!!!. I think this is an amazing story, the possibility the bat was corked after is there, but I think very unlikely. Anyone that is trying to beat that point is just trying to pull down a collector because they themself do not have an item like this.

Great bat! Congrats!

-Tony

[otismalibu]

I decided to X-ray my Dr. J. gamers. This is a sad day for hoops fans.

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb110/otismalibu/spring1.jpg

[schubert1970]

Hi Bill,

If you are going to end your thoughts on this thread, I just wanted to know if you were done collecting after this purchase. Thats what I read at least. Is that correct?


As far as big ticket auction items and spending hours to photo match them, I'm done. But I'll still pick up the occasional bat and jersey here and there. What I enjoy most is reading all the other amazing stories on this forum. This place is a wealth of knowledege and great people.

Bill

[platinum1]

As far as big ticket auction items and spending hours to photo match them, I'm done. But I'll still pick up the occasional bat and jersey here and there. What I enjoy most is reading all the other amazing stories on this forum. This place is a wealth of knowledege and great people.

Bill
AGREE 100%

[schubert1970]

One last thing, everything I learned in the last two years about game used memorabilia came from here so big thank you to everyone!!!!!

Bill

[dcrules01]

Bill I do not know you but this has been a great thread and it has been very knowlegeable. I liked Pete Rose and always will no matter what. You have a great bat and a great story to go along with it.Congrats on both ends.Rose was far from perfect but any baseball fan had to love the way he played the game.Thanks for sharing ypour story.

[schubert1970]

A pic sent to me today from 9/11/85

[joelsabi]

A pic sent to me today from 9/11/85


Depending on how much foul territory there is, taking a knee in the on deck circle can be negligent, as your reaction time is slower when on the knee.

I found a photo of Mike Schmidt in the batting circle in Old Veteran Stadium in 1985. I assume the dugout is on the first base side based on where Schmidt is looking.

I assume a parallel location occurred for the visitor on deck circle too. Looking at Rose's photo on the Beckett Cover I don't think Rose is on the on deck circle based on the different relative location from on deck circle to the dugout compared to the Schmidt photo. Maybe my rotation is incorrect as I am not sure where the photographer is located and the background objects is blurry.

Also what is the rectangle green object in front of Rose in the Beckett Cover? The object is chin high to Rose. To me it looks like a post of some sort.

[schubert1970]

Depending on how much foul territory there is, taking a knee in the on deck circle can be negligent, as your reaction time is slower when on the knee.

I found a photo of Mike Schmidt in the batting circle in Old Veteran Stadium in 1985. I assume the dugout is on the first base side based on where Schmidt is looking.

I assume a parallel location occurred for the visitor on deck circle too. Looking at Rose's photo on the Beckett Cover I don't think Rose is on the on deck circle based on the different relative location from on deck circle to the dugout compared to the Schmidt photo. Maybe my rotation is incorrect as I am not sure where the photographer is located and the background objects is blurry.

Also what is the rectangle green object in front of Rose in the Beckett Cover? The object is chin high to Rose. To me it looks like a post of some sort.

Here is a better view. This is a pic of Alou in the on deck circle from 1993. If Alou was standing up, the Beckettt cover would be almost identical.

I've also included an overhead pic of the stadium so you can see where the photographers are compared to the on deck circle. The photographers at that time were on the right end of the dugout (visitor side).

[joelsabi]

Here is a better view. This is a pic of Alou in the on deck circle from 1993. If Alou was standing up, the Beckettt cover would be almost identical.

I've also included an overhead pic of the stadium so you can see where the photographers are compared to the on deck circle. The photographers at that time were on the right end of the dugout (visitor side).

Yes this looks like Alou in a same place as Rose. The object that I thought was a post seems to be a seam in the wall, the same level as Alou.

i was trying to figure out where the photographers are able to take photo from. make sense. thanks

To me this important to establish where he was photographed since I believe players normally wait in the on deck circle for their turn during a game and wait near homeplate behind the bp cage during bp.

[schubert1970]

Just when you think this thing is going to fade away, I was contacted from a person in Ohio today who actually has a picture of Pete Rose with my bat in hand during a photo shoot. This person originally sold the bat to Steve Wolter in 1988 or 1989. Apperantly this picture is so good, you can photo match the 14 on top of the barrel. He said the bat is the exact same from the photos posted on here and deadspin. So at least we can eliminate the last 22 years of someone else corking the bat.

Needless to say this person was really excited for me and gave me some great info.

This person would like to remain anonymous due to the coverage of this story. Hopefully I'll be able to post his photo in the next couple of days.

Also, my interview with Ken Broo aired today if your interest in listening click the link below and download the 3rd hour from the show on 6/13. Listen to the callers after my interview, some are spot on. One note, I said that John Taube had a corked PR4192, but after the x-ray this was a false statment. I didn't know till after the interview, but John thought for sure it was corked.

http://www.700wlw.com/cc-common/podcast/single_podcast.html?podcast=KenBroo.xml

Bill

[joelsabi]

Just when you think this thing is going to fade away, I was contacted from a person in Ohio today who actually has a picture of Pete Rose with my bat in hand during a photo shoot. This person originally sold the bat to Steve Wolter in 1988 or 1989. Apperantly this picture is so good, you can photo match the 14 on top of the barrel. He said the bat is the exact same from the photos posted on here and deadspin. So at least we can eliminate the last 22 years of someone else corking the bat.

Needless to say this person was really excited for me and gave me some great info.

This person would like to remain anonymous due to the coverage of this story. Hopefully I'll be able to post his photo in the next couple of days.

Also, my interview with Ken Broo aired today if your interest in listening click the link below and download the 3rd hour from the show on 6/13. Listen to the callers after my interview, some are spot on. One note, I said that John Taube had a corked PR4192, but after the x-ray this was a false statment. I didn't know till after the interview, but John thought for sure it was corked.

http://www.700wlw.com/cc-common/podcast/single_podcast.html?podcast=KenBroo.xml

Bill


Bill,

Is this what Steve Mears meant about working on finding a photo?

"If we could find a photo of the number 14 on the end of the barrel, and photo match it without question to Bill's as was done with the knob "14", that would leave no question that that bat, on the cover of Beckett's magazine, photo-matched as the very same one Bill now owns, did in fact possess cork inside of it the moment that photo was taken"


http://media.ccomrcdn.com/media/station_content/1209/100613_3_SMST_1276446534_1521.mp3?


Was the photoshoot of the new photo before or after the July 4th weekend?


Ken Broo kept on talking about the problem of Chain of custody and I think this upcoming photo is your smoking gun. It would be circumstancial evidence that the bat was unaltered from the time Rose had the bat in his hands until the time you tested it for cork. One of the callers mentioned about never find corked in a Rose cracked bat. If its corked in the barrell, its not likely that you have the bat cracked in the barrell area but rather in the handle area. What was the likelihood of a Rose bat being confiscated by an ump? Not likely.

Nice interview. Has your wife changed her opinion on your purchase?

Related:
Ken talks with Mike Hefner, President of Leland Auctions about Pete Rose's corked bats:
http://media.ccomrcdn.com/media/station_content/1209/100606_1_KEN_1275844871_24011.mp3?

[yanks12025]

I'm alittle lost, if the bat was used in a photo shoot wouldn't that show it wasn't used during a game or did you guys come to conclusion that the one photo is from a game and not BP. Thanks

[schubert1970]

Sorry for the confusion. This guy purchased the bat in '87 or '88 then wanted to take a picture of Pete (at a meet and greet) with himslef and the bat in '88 or '89 (I'll try to verify the dates).

I guess the pose has Pete extending the bat so you can see the top of the barrel. I was told the top still looks the exact same.

There is still a 2 or 3 year gap between '85 and '87 of ownership, but it does prove the bat has been in the same condition for at least 22 years.

Can't wat to see the picture.

Bill

[schubert1970]

[quote=joelsabi;204934]Bill,

its not likely that you have the bat cracked in the barrell area but rather in the handle area. What was the likelihood of a Rose bat being confiscated by an ump? Not likely.

quote]


Funny you mention this, my bat has a slight crack in the handle.

Steve Mears wanted a game photo of Pete using the bat showing the top of the barrel. This person just has a meet and great photo. Still can't believe he just contacted me out the the blue.

[tacprc]

Sorry for the confusion. This guy purchased the bat in '87 or '88 and then wanted to take a picture of Pete (at a meet and greet) with himself and the bat in '88 or '89. (I'll try to verify the dates.) ...

Bill

Yes, please try to verify the dates. Steve Wolter said that he bought the bat from this guy in 1996 per Ken Broo.

Also, please try to find out from whom he bought the bat in 1987 or 1988.

Thanks.

[tacprc]

I just took a look at Pete's detailed batting log for 1985.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?n1=rosepe01&t=b&year=1985

I just don't see at what point he would have really panicked and started using a corked bat.

Remember that Pete was a 24-year veteran and had battled through many bad weeks at the plate.

Remember also that Pete batted .365 for the last six weeks of the 1984 season -- after he returned to the Reds from the Expos -- so he knew that he still could hit major league pitching even at 43 years of age.

Let's assume for now that Rose never used a corked bat prior to the 1985 season, and his bat speed from 1963-84 was sufficient that he didn't need one. Prior to 1985 I have never heard of a Pete Rose corked bat in the collecting hobby. Moreover, prior to 1985 he always used an ash-colored bat -- with the exception of spring training (and possibly possibly the first six weeks) of 1981 when he used a pink Mizuno bat -- and it would have been harder to hide the corking.

[Mark17]

I just took a look at Pete's detailed batting log for 1985.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?n1=rosepe01&t=b&year=1985

I just don't see at what point he would have really panicked and started using a corked bat.

Remember that Pete was a 24-year veteran and had battled through many bad weeks at the plate.

Remember also that Pete batted .365 for the last six weeks of the 1984 season -- after he returned to the Reds from the Expos -- so he knew that he still could hit major league pitching even at 43 years of age.

Let's assume for now that Rose never used a corked bat prior to the 1985 season, and his bat speed from 1963-84 was sufficient that he didn't need one. Prior to 1985 I have never heard of a Pete Rose corked bat in the collecting hobby. Moreover, prior to 1985 he always used an ash-colored bat -- with the exception of spring training (and possibly possibly the first six weeks) of 1981 when he used a pink Mizuno bat -- and it would have been harder to hide the corking.

Yeah, and I don't understand why a guy making a lot of money for a lot of years would throw it all away by gambling. I guess it's hard to understand Pete's mentality, can we at least agree on that?

It is a LOT easier to hide corking when you can re-paint the top of the barrel black, and then paint a white #14 over that. As opposed to clear wood, where the grain is easily visible.

By the way, a week or so ago you suggested everyone hold off reporting this story until Pete had a chance to give his explanation, which was supposed to come last Wednesday. Did he say anything? If so, I missed it.

[yanks12025]

Another thing is with the gap of when Rose used the bat and the photo shoot, why would someone cork a Pete Rose back then. There was no reason for a collector to have corked his bat during that couple year period.

[dcrules01]

Is it really that outrageous to believe he did this tacprc? In my eyes big deal he corked his bat at least he didn't kill anyone. At 43 playing the game is tough why do you think guys did steroids? To maintain that competitive edge is what I am guessing. Just like all them years he said he never bet on baseball. It would be hard for me to believe anything he says anymore. Just my opinion :) But I still think he should be in the hall of fame..

[tacprc]

By the way, a week or so ago you suggested everyone hold off reporting this story until Pete had a chance to give his explanation, which was supposed to come last Wednesday. Did he say anything? If so, I missed it.

I said that I had heard that Rose wasn't available to talk with Barry Petchesky until last Wednesday. I don't suspect that Rose would talk with him now after seeing what he wrote -- including all the factual errors and fictional statements.

[Boswell baseball]

I just took a look at Pete's detailed batting log for 1985.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.cgi?n1=rosepe01&t=b&year=1985

I just don't see at what point he would have really panicked and started using a corked bat.

Remember that Pete was a 24-year veteran and had battled through many bad weeks at the plate.

Remember also that Pete batted .365 for the last six weeks of the 1984 season -- after he returned to the Reds from the Expos -- so he knew that he still could hit major league pitching even at 43 years of age.

Let's assume for now that Rose never used a corked bat prior to the 1985 season, and his bat speed from 1963-84 was sufficient that he didn't need one. Prior to 1985 I have never heard of a Pete Rose corked bat in the collecting hobby. Moreover, prior to 1985 he always used an ash-colored bat -- with the exception of spring training (and possibly possibly the first six weeks) of 1981 when he used a pink Mizuno bat -- and it would have been harder to hide the corking.

Hello forum,

I have been following this thread and thought I would respond.

tacprc,

you seem to possess a deep rooted desire to go against everything resembling reality and circumstances pointing to Pete's having used a cork bat. You also seem to be confusing some statements here.

Many here have discussed old reports, facts published in several different means (Dowd report, interviews, close friends of Rose making statements, and now an apparent onslaught of collectors who , don't know eachother, but have because of a photo someone was able to match to their bat, upon further effort discovered their bats to be corked.

In particular, a close household friend of Pete Rose's who was as close to Pete as anyone could have been (he ran his bets, scuffed up the ends of his corked bats-if you believe him, knew everything about his personal dealings, etc.) has claimed that Pete "used corked bats right before breaking Ty Cobb's record", yet you are still bringing up accounts of your reasoning why Pete had no reason to use corked bats throughout his career, and even in the last months of 1984 while returned to the Reds from the Expos.

No one here is talking about any time frame other than right before and approaching Ty Cobb's record. Not throughout his career, and not even in 1984.

So what is your agenda? I for one don't understand your process of trying to discredit every rational thought presented here? You yourself told off a poster here asking everyone to "stick to the facts".

Are those the same facts you turn a blind eye to, just to support your waning opinion that Pete Rose is an Angel?

You are out at the plate as you leave the batter's box my friend. There is no reason for you to continue on your path to first base.

Let me know when you want to start analyzing the "facts" as you have suggested. Then maybe what you have to say here will become relevant. To this point, I don't believe you have made any point at all, other than to show you will support Pete against all common reasoning pointing in the other direction.

Thanks,

Bob

[schubert1970]

Thanks to my friend in Ohio for sending me the pictures of Pete Rose holding the bat, which at the time he owned.

This picture was from '87 or '88 and it shows a portion of the top of the barrel. He wasn't able to scan the photo since it 11 x 14 in size so he took some picture of it.

He began to tell me how awful the autograph looked and how much he hated it. I died laughing because I told him I almost didn't buy the bat because of the signature. It's doesn't look that bad in this photo, but in person it's bad.

Shortly after receiving from Steve Wolter, I posted photos (just posted them again) and asked questions on how to remove the signature so after some research on the forum I used olive oil and it worked like a charm. You can still see some residue, but looks better. Also, the signature was covering a good portion of the game use which is all I care about. I figured I can get Rose to sign it again anytime….maybe not now.

Anyway, the old owner was excited that I took it off without damaging the bat.

He doesn't remember the name of the person he purchased the bat from originally; just that he paid $700 at the time which was a good chunk of change for a bat.

Still can’t believe we can track the ownership of this bat from 22 or 23 years ago.

Bill

[schubert1970]

Also, received my LOA from JT today and he did a great job.
Took is own x Ray and gave a good history of the bat and recent media attention. The bat got a GU 10.

[tacprc]

... He began to tell me how awful the autograph looked and how much he hated it. I died laughing because I told him I almost didn't buy the bat because of the signature. It's doesn't look that bad in this photo, but in person it's bad. ... Bill

Just to be clear, when you say "bad", do you mean fake or just unattractive in some way? Thanks.

[schubert1970]

Just to be clear, when you say "bad", do you mean fake or just unattractive in some way? Thanks.

Unattractive. Just not a typical looking Pete sig when using a paint stick, and too large.

[tacprc]

Unattractive. Just not a typical looking Pete sig when using a paint stick, and too large.

OK. Thanks.

[emann]

Just reading this post for the first time. Bill, awesome bat & story...

[tacprc]

Here is a better view. This is a pic of Alou in the on deck circle from 1993. If Alou was standing up, the Beckett cover would be almost identical.

I've also included an overhead pic of Veterans stadium so you can see where the photographers are compared to the on deck circle. The photographers at that time were on the right end of the dugout (visitor side).

I believe that Three Rivers Stadium had a similar green background. I found one decent photo that shows the wall behind home plate.

I am not sure, but I think that the pictures for these two baseball cards were also snapped at Three Rivers.

[schubert1970]

I believe that Three Rivers Stadium had a similar green background. I found one decent photo that shows the wall behind home plate.

I am not sure, but I think that the pictures for these two baseball cards were also snapped at Three Rivers.


Above the green padding there are no bars in Pete's pic. The cards clearly show bars above the green padding.

[tacprc]

Above the green padding there are no bars in Pete's pic. The cards clearly show bars above the green padding.

Yeah, that's a good point. Like I said, I am not sure where those baseball card photos were snapped.

They could have been taken in spring training. Since 1969 McKechnie Field in Bradenton, FL, has been the spring training home of the Pirates. From what I have seen on the internet and perhaps in other Fleer baseball cards, it has green walls.

Note: The Reds played one spring training game against the Pirates at McKechnie Field in 1985.

I would like to see a better picture of the green wall behind home plate at Three Rivers Stadium. From the one good picture that I posted, there don't appear to be any railings behind home plate -- just a protective net.

[Tim+Jeff]

Great match looks like it.

[tacprc]

I have been exchanging emails with photographer Bob Bartosz for the past 10 days. Here's a conglomeration of what he has told me thus far.

"I did 100 baseball cards for Donruss when they put out their first set in 1981. Donruss were paying $3.00 to $5.00 for photos for cards, and they had Many Many freelancers sending in 100's of photos hoping they would use one -- just to say they had their photo on a BB card.

Then Fleer hired me and two other photographers in 1982; we were the only staff baseball photographers working full-time for Fleer Corp.

They did buy a few photos from freelancers from time to time but not many. I had over 40 plus percent of the photos used in each set. Also I did a lot of photos for their Football card sets.

My wife and I would go to Spring Training in Florida each year in February and March. I had all the teams on Florida's West Coast. Another Fleer photographer had the East Coast. The third guy had the West Coast teams also.

My wife was their proof reader from 1982 to 88. We both stopped working for them after that.

All three of us Fleer photographers keep a low profile -- not bragging about what we did. The freelancers bragged about just getting into a ballpark. I could get into the club house and locker rooms and on the field at any time for any ballpark in the NL and AL.

All the photos were taken with Kodak Slide Film that Fleer bought for us. We used over 500 rolls or more each year.

Kodak did all the developing. There were 36 slides per roll.

++++++

I was always in the dugout when I took photos. No one was permitted on the field.

In 1985 I was at spring training and at games all over from April to October.

All the 1985 photos would be for 1986 cards.

Fleer and Topps cards were printed by the same printer in Pennsylvania. Printing started in November and December. The new cards came out in February.

Fleer also put out special sets in 1985 using the 1985 spring training and 1985 game photos we took, but the Set and Wax pack cards were based on the photos from the year before.

++++

I took thousands of baseball photos during 30 plus years and to remember a place and time of a player just standing there would be hard to do. If it were a great play or event, then Yes. I have so many photos of Rose just standing by himself.

When I was taking photos for Fleer Corp Baseball Cards, I would take 25 to 50 rolls of film a week. I liked to take photos of games, rather than posing players just standing.

That Beckett color photo was on Kodak Slide Film. I sold all my Slides, 50 or 60 thousand of them, about 10 or so years ago.

For more info you would need to ask Beckett. I put my name and the date on my photos, and marked the place on the back of the photo or slide."

[schubert1970]

Take a look at this interview.

http://www.wlwt.com/video/23964386/index.html (http://www.wlwt.com/video/23964386/index.html)

I'm glad they actually have some footage of the bats. There is no #14 on top of the PR4192 so I could have told you the x-ray would have been negative. I don't know why they even bothered to scan an ATHL bat, these have never been questioned about cork.

And at the very least Pete himself verifies the findings.

JT recenlty told me a collector of his x-rayed their PR4192 and found cork, but he doesn't want to come forward.

[schubert1970]

I wanted to let everyone know that I built a simple web site www.pr4192.com (http://www.pr4192.com)

I developed this web site to help keep a history of Pete's PR4192's. If you have one (corked or uncorked), I'd like to hear from you so we can add your information to this web site. I think this will be a great information tool for anyone looking to purchase a PR4192 or someone just looking for more information about these.

txs

Bill

[tacprc]

... There is no #14 on top of the PR4192 so I could have told you the x-ray would have been negative. ...

There is no #14 on the barrel end of the Zane Burns bat or the bat that sold in the Nov-08 Leland's auction.

[schubert1970]

I saw Pete in Vegas today. Here is what happened.

http://www.pr4192.com/Page3.html

[Mark17]

Besides the Beckett photo that clearly puts this bat in Pete's hands during a game, here's the obvious problem with Pete's "Steve Wolter corked the bat" theory.

Did Steve even know there was cork in it? Did he sell the bat at a premium because there was cork in it? I believe the answers to these questions are "No."

So, if he wasn't benefitting from drilling into a very valuable bat and tampering/damaging it, why would he do so? My understanding is that Steve is a Pete Rose fan anyways..... Pete's little theory (excuse) is ridiculous, and from the look on his face when he's saying it, I think he knows it isn't believable.

You've done outstanding work on this story, and since it involves the breaking of one of baseball's most sacred records, it is definitely worth the effort to uncover the facts. I don't believe the cork helped Pete get hits, but it was cheating nevertheless.

Thanks!!

[schubert1970]

Besides the Beckett photo that clearly puts this bat in Pete's hands during a game, here's the obvious problem with Pete's "Steve Wolter corked the bat" theory.

Did Steve even know there was cork in it? Did he sell the bat at a premium because there was cork in it? I believe the answers to these questions are "No."

So, if he wasn't benefitting from drilling into a very valuable bat and tampering/damaging it, why would he do so? My understanding is that Steve is a Pete Rose fan anyways..... Pete's little theory (excuse) is ridiculous, and from the look on his face when he's saying it, I think he knows it isn't believable.

You've done outstanding work on this story, and since it involves the breaking of one of baseball's most sacred records, it is definitely worth the effort to uncover the facts. I don't believe the cork helped Pete get hits, but it was cheating nevertheless.

Thanks!!


Thanks for the kind comments. I was tempted to push the issue with him, but didn't think it would help, especially knowing the denial they are all in. Felling sorry for me because Steve ripped me off. What was odd was Rose wasn't angry at the person for the x-raying the bat, but mad at Steve for not defending him. Some of the people who work at that store are really really odd. It's a bit bizzare situation in that store.

By the way I bought his book and a baseball for my son a took a ton of other pics. He seemed to like the Tour of Japan jersey. I think he hates to here how much money his stuff sold for, seems to drive him nuts.

Also, the guy who runs the shop gave Pete a $100 bill and said this is from the next customer in line. Pete then said "This is the last time I'm doing this". I had no idea what they were talking about. All I could think of was there is Pete not paying taxes again (just kidding).

[33bird]

Ha. I've had Pete sign different gamers of mine-bats and jerseys and he denies they are his and he never sold his gamers and where did you get it? It gets old. When he signed one of my game used jerseys he called some guy and described the jersey and where I got it (Dave Grob) because he was sure it wasn't his ever. When he got off the phone he says: I guess you got a good one. Whatever Pete.

[tacprc]

Several months ago I had the chance to talk to Pete for 5-10 minutes, and one of the things he said is that he was surprised by the number of his game used bats that have been presented to him for signature at shows, etc. -- because he rarely broke bats and didn't use a ton of different ones each year.

[tacprc]

Besides the Beckett photo that clearly puts this bat in Pete's hands during a game, here's the obvious problem with Pete's "Steve Wolter corked the bat" theory.

Did Steve even know there was cork in it? Did he sell the bat at a premium because there was cork in it? I believe the answers to these questions are "No."

So, if he wasn't benefitting from drilling into a very valuable bat and tampering/damaging it, why would he do so?

I tend to agree with you. On the other hand, if Pete never (knowingly) used a corked bat, then it would make sense for him to blame the people who owned the bats after they left his hands.

[tacprc]

There is no #14 on the barrel end of the Zane Burns bat or the bat that sold in the Nov-08 Leland's auction.

There is also no #14 on the barrel end of the "first" Pete Rose corked bat -- the one that sold for $103K as Lot 1038 in the Dec 2005 Lelands auction.

This bat later re-appeared as lot 82081 in Heritage Auction 716. Bidding for this lot ended on 2-Oct-09. The sales price including Buyer’s Premium was $8365.

[33bird]

When Rose signed a game used Adirondack of mine once, he said the same thing: he rarely cracked a bat. But, that doesn't mean he didn't give a ton away or sell some during his long career. He told me during his 44 game hit streak he used the same bat the whole time. But, I think Pete has forgotten a lot over time too. He didn't remember when he used Adirondack bats and he said he rarely used bats over 33 ounces, which isn't right according to the bats I have and his ordering records (I'm talking 1970s). So you kindof have to take what Pete says with a grain of salt.

[tacprc]

I agree that you can not totally rely on what Pete says about his game used items.

[tacprc]

Last Sunday morning (7/18/10) I was a guest on Hour 2 of Ken Broo's Sports Talk show on WLW radio.

http://www.700wlw.com/cc-common/podcast/single_podcast.html?podcast=KenBroo.xml (http://www.700wlw.com/cc-common/podcast/single_podcast.html?podcast=KenBroo.xml)

[Fnazxc0114]

in the last weeks issue of SI there was a pic of rose using a bat that had the same strange tape job on it.

[schubert1970]

in the last weeks issue of SI there was a pic of rose using a bat that had the same strange tape job on it.

Can you tell me what issue or send a copy if the pic. Jus looked at issue from Aug 2-9 and didn't see anything.

[rj_lucas]

Can you tell me what issue or send a copy if the pic. Jus looked at issue from Aug 2-9 and didn't see anything.

August 16th cover date, College Football Preview issue, page 111.

You can also go to si.com/vault and do a search on 'rose cobb' to turn up some stuff, like this cover:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/cover/featured/8970/index.htm

Rick
rickjlucas@gmail.com

[Fnazxc0114]

It is right before the ncaa football preview, ill shoot a pic and send it to you.