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View Full Version : Albert Pujols Louisville order question (2002-2003)



spartanservitto
05-24-2010, 11:22 PM
Quick question:

I have an albert pujols gamer from 2002 or 2003. It is a C243 model. I have done some research and feel pretty good about it. The one problem I have is that it doesnt have the TPX logo on the back. Was this the case for Pujols gamers of this model during this time. I bought the bat from one of the most reputable dealers I have ever seen, Californiasportsinv.com. The guy Ron has amazing items, and I have always felt 100% confident purchasing from him.

Check his site: www.californiasportsinv.com.

Anyways any comments or thoughts would be appreciated.

5kRunner
05-25-2010, 08:07 AM
http://webpages.charter.net/birdbats/Birdbats/Player%20Models/pujols.htm

5kRunner
05-25-2010, 08:14 AM
Sorry, I hit enter too fast.

I'm by no means an expert on Pujols. Hopefully Jeff will reply.

But, your bat looks like its maple. According to Jeff's website, Pujols only ordered maple C243C's.

Maybe I'm not seeing something.

spartanservitto
05-25-2010, 08:16 AM
Thank you! Helps a lot, it definitely is maple, and the bottom has the right weight and ounce markings, definitely excited about this bat now.

-Tony

spartanservitto
05-25-2010, 08:17 AM
Yea that is definitely weird, if anyone else knows anything about this, it would help. Ive actually never seen a louisville with the added "C" at the end, at the C243's ive seen have been listed like mine.

-Tony

spartanservitto
05-25-2010, 08:21 AM
Its weird because it is a maple bat, but it doesn't say "Maple" by the louisville, it may be a promo bat; !?!?!?! The other characteristics appear correct, there is light to moderate pine tar, and pine tar missing where his hands would be.

The autographs is 100% legit, if anyone knows albert autographs... then they would agree.

-Tony

5kRunner
05-25-2010, 08:24 AM
Is the end cupped?

spartanservitto
05-25-2010, 08:25 AM
Yea, 5 written also.

-Tony

spartanservitto
05-25-2010, 08:25 AM
Im pretty sure, 34.5 is written at the bottom, but I can check when I get home, im at school right now.

-Tony

spartanservitto
05-25-2010, 08:31 AM
It might be 33.5 actually, not sure.

-Tony

rj_lucas
05-25-2010, 09:03 AM
The signature is legit, and appears to be vintage e.g. in 2002-2003 Albert still used the # in front of the 5 and placed the number below his name instead of embedding it within the s in Pujols as he began doing around 2004-2005, at which point he also dropped the #. In 2002-2003 he also began placing the ' after the year (as McGwire generally does). Prior to that, Pujols placed the ' before the year.

Rick
rickjlucas@gmail.com

spartanservitto
05-25-2010, 09:13 AM
Thanks for the signature details, i appreciate it. I personally this its one of the promo bats. The guy I got it from has had many pujols bats and is in TIGHT with Dodgers organization and told me that he knows a particular coach on the Cardinals where he has gotten his pujols gamers.

Im just trying to trace the model but it is weird.

-Tony

Birdbats
05-25-2010, 09:17 AM
It would help if you could post more photos -- the knob, the end, the barrel around the bat, etc.

Some things to consider:
Albert's first LS bats had the MLB logo on the front/sweet spot. Most of his early bats, though, should have the MLB logo and TPX logo on the back. I have seen a couple legit bats (not Albert's) without the logos on the back; maybe production errors, I don't know. The lack of logos on the back, in my opinion, doesn't automatically mean the bat isn't legit.
Most of Albert's C243C maple bats (the last C means cupped) were shipped with no finish. Your bat has a clear, natural finish. I see just two orders for natural finish C243C bats on Albert's records -- 12 total. Half are 34", 32 oz., half are 34", 31.5 oz. So, again, the natural finish is unusual, but not a deal breaker.
If the knob has 34.5 or 33.5 written on the knob, that's cause for some concern. Whether that's a reference to the bat's length or weight, it doesn't match either. I'd expect bats from Albert's C243C natural orders to say "34-32," "4-2," "34-31.5" or "4-1.5".

The pine tar on the lower part of the handle isn't typical for Albert. On his early bats, you should see a darkening of the wood on the upper handle, but most of the handle is void of tar. So, the tar is a bit of a red flag for me.Look forward to seeing more shots.

spartanservitto
05-25-2010, 09:25 AM
Ill post more pictures, there actually is a decent amount of tar towards the middle of the bat, its hard to see in the photos I posted. Ill post the ends also.

-Tony

rj_lucas
05-25-2010, 09:30 AM
Here are shots of my Pujols C243 from 2001 to illustrate some of Jeff's points.

Rick
rickjlucas@gmail.com

spartanservitto
05-25-2010, 09:38 AM
Thats definitely older, the autograph is vintage from his rookie year, it also not maple. I did a bad job with the photos, but the pine tar does match up. Im pretty up set right now either way.

-Tony

STLHAMMER32
05-25-2010, 10:36 AM
Here are shots of my Pujols C243 from 2001 to illustrate some of Jeff's points.

Rick
rickjlucas@gmail.com


Very nice bat Rick, I love that ink transfer. Can't be too many signed rookie gamers floating around....Also looks like there is some deep lace marks as well!

As far as the bat in question, I would be curious to know if there was any deep lace indentions?

I have noticed that Albert's pine tar seems to have a different look to it. It usually doesn't have that clumped pine tar appearance that you often see. Is this due to the type of pine tar he uses?

rj_lucas
05-25-2010, 11:27 AM
Very nice bat Rick, I love that ink transfer. Can't be too many signed rookie gamers floating around....Also looks like there is some deep lace marks as well!

Thanks, I picked it up from the Tony LaRussa Animal Rescue Foundation auction in 2001. If you don't mind, would you contact me off-forum when you have a chance? Specifically, I'd like to know if you have any 2001 Cardinals games from between August 22 and October 7 on tape. If so, I'd love to pay you if I could borrow them to have DVDs made.

Rick
rickjlucas@gmail.com

spartanservitto
05-25-2010, 12:09 PM
Heres some more photos, thanks for the feed back guys.... Let me know.

Im pretty sure the pine tar is consistent with albert bats, Im trying to show it with the photos.

spartanservitto
05-25-2010, 12:13 PM
here

spartanservitto
05-25-2010, 12:14 PM
heres some more.

spartanservitto
05-25-2010, 12:21 PM
heres the last one

spartanservitto
05-25-2010, 04:54 PM
Does anyone know about the natural finished louisville promo bats he ordered at the end of 03'? Where they all consistent or did Louisville try various things?

-Tony

Rboitano
05-25-2010, 05:03 PM
Those ball marks look like the classic California Sports Inv ball marks. Their have been threads about that before. Thos are very small allmost golf ball size ball marks.

spartanservitto
05-25-2010, 05:25 PM
After being on this forum for 2 days, I am probably going to sell everything i have ever bought and stay out of this hobby. I have probably been ripped off about 4-5 grand now. Amazing.

-Tony

spartanservitto
05-25-2010, 05:56 PM
Has anyone had California Sports Inv. Items pass PSA/DNA? Or any other major authenticator?

-Tony

spartanservitto
05-25-2010, 05:57 PM
Has anyone submitted any items to PSA/DNA from Ron and California Sports Inv. Im freaking out over purchases I made and I am just curious.

-Tony

Rob L
05-25-2010, 06:08 PM
Those ball marks look like the classic California Sports Inv ball marks. Their have been threads about that before. Thos are very small allmost golf ball size ball marks.

I thought the same thing. Here is the original thread:

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=11512&highlight=california+sports+investments

3arod13
05-25-2010, 06:36 PM
Has anyone submitted any items to PSA/DNA from Ron and California Sports Inv. Im freaking out over purchases I made and I am just curious.

-Tony

Freaking out about what?

spartanservitto
05-25-2010, 06:52 PM
An Albert Pujols bat I bought from them.

-Tony

gorilla777
05-25-2010, 08:21 PM
An Albert Pujols bat I bought from them.

-Tony

They have good items, I don't think you generally will have any problems. If you need Pujols bat commentary, then you should talk to Jeff at Birdbats.

Ben

spartanservitto
05-25-2010, 08:55 PM
I trust Ron, I dont think the markings are similar to the black bats with the white.

My question is this order.

2003 (Nov)
24
LS
Any
Natural
PROMO
34
0

- the length of my bat is 34 inches. Im not sure on the weight, because I dont have the ability to weigh the item. What were these promo bats sent by louisville? The reason being is that the bat has a natural finish. Which these bats do. Were the promo bats concept bats for albert to try? It would shed some light on the fact that the bat is maple yet has the powerized logo still. There also are no specific weights listed with these bats.

- My question is this... Can you even by a a model bat that wouldnt have the TPX or other logo on the bat like this one? To me it seems like concept bat.

-Tony

STLHAMMER32
05-25-2010, 09:07 PM
I trust Ron, I dont think the markings are similar to the black bats with the white.

My question is this order.

2003 (Nov)
24
LS
Any
Natural
PROMO
34
0

- the length of my bat is 34 inches. Im not sure on the weight, because I dont have the ability to weigh the item. What were these promo bats sent by louisville? The reason being is that the bat has a natural finish. Which these bats do. Were the promo bats concept bats for albert to try? It would shed some light on the fact that the bat is maple yet has the powerized logo still. There also are no specific weights listed with these bats.

- My question is this... Can you even by a a model bat that wouldnt have the TPX or other logo on the bat like this one? To me it seems like concept bat.

-Tony

Tony does your bat have any lace indentations?

spartanservitto
05-25-2010, 09:09 PM
I dont think so, its a pretty solid bat?

-Tony

Rboitano
05-25-2010, 09:20 PM
Every Maple bat I have ever had that was used, had seam marks. All of those ink transfers look just like the other CSI bats that I have seen. I will not purchase a bat that came from them. With all of those ink transfers their should be some seam marks.

STLHAMMER32
05-25-2010, 09:24 PM
I dont think so, its a pretty solid bat?

-Tony

Ive noticed if you hold the bat up near a light on most game used bats you can see lace indentions that are not always easily seen. The laces from fastballs coming in at 90mph+ in addition to bat speeds around the same will cause the laces from the baseball to leave indentations.

Every game used bat that I have ever owned has had the lace indentations and it is one of the first things I look for. Hope this helps!

STLHAMMER32
05-25-2010, 09:33 PM
A great example of the lace indentations can be seen on the photo in the light of the McGwire HR bat on this thread, the first post.

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=35409

spartanservitto
05-25-2010, 09:36 PM
I will tell you all, one week on this site and I want to be out of the hobby. Very sad. I was so proud of the bat, and now I am miserable, I saved up so much money to purchase that bat. Heart is absolutely broken, not so much that I was ripped off, but that I will never be able to own an Albert Pujols game used bat.

I wish athletes could read this. 25 year old young man, who not only has been ripped off, but more than likely albert participated in it (the auto is legit; no one can question that).

-Tony Servitto

5kRunner
05-25-2010, 09:45 PM
I'm really not sure what to make of this thread. You trust the guy who sold you the bat, and then go on to say Albert participated in ripping you off. :confused:

Its obviously a promo bat that more than likely was not used by Pujols. If you bought the bat within the last week, I'd try to get my money back.

spartanservitto
05-25-2010, 10:08 PM
Albert signed it, and I think he signed it after. The smudge indicates he signed over a ball mark. The seller said I can return it. Looks like that is what I will do.

-Tony

Rob L
05-25-2010, 10:10 PM
I trust Ron, I dont think the markings are similar to the black bats with the white.


huh? Your right, they are blue instead. White doesn't show up on Maple well. Blue transfers with no seam marks? It is the same. It sucks, I know I had a black bat from CSI that had the white marks. Just an expensive lesson for me.

spartanservitto
05-25-2010, 10:19 PM
Yea I screwed up. Way to be nonchalant about it. Its hard enough losing about a year worth of money I saved...

-Tony

justinlm24
05-26-2010, 12:01 AM
don't feel bad, I've bought 2 pujols bats myself in the past, and both turned out to be fakes....just a lesson you learn in this hobby. But rather than want to get out of the hobby, use this board for resources and do your homework before you make your next purchase. There are tons of people here who can help you or offer advice on any item you want to purchase prior to doing so. I know I've been able to avoid bad deals with the help of everyone here....good luck with the bat...take care bro

spartanservitto
05-26-2010, 07:49 AM
Yea, it's tough. I was just a kid when I went after the bats, and I thought CSI was a pretty safe bet on game used items based on the inventory and contacts. Apparently not.

Has anyone initiated a law suit against this company? Or anyone else in that matter?

-Tony

rj_lucas
05-26-2010, 08:56 AM
Don't be too discouraged Tony. You can bet that many, if not most, collectors have had an experience similar to yours at some point. You'll be smarter for the experience, since forewarned is forearmed.

Also, you can be sure that Albert was not involved in anything fishy. The guy is as upstanding as they come.

It's not unusual to see Sharpie get smudged on a finished bat. The ink doesn't set up as quickly because of the finish. That's a long inscription, and Albert's hand would have moved over the first few letters as he wrote, smudging them.

I'm glad to hear the dealer has agreed to return your money and wish every dealer offered a similar return privilege. Please post an update when you've received the refund, as I'm sure many of us will continue to follow the thread until we know the situation has been resolved.

Rick
rickjlucas@gmail.com

spartanservitto
05-26-2010, 09:01 AM
Thanks RJ, I guess an Albert bat has become my "white whale", Im looking for a bat if anyone has one.

-Thanks,

Tony

skipcarayislegend
05-26-2010, 10:08 AM
Yea, it's tough. I was just a kid when I went after the bats, and I thought CSI was a pretty safe bet on game used items based on the inventory and contacts. Apparently not.

Don't be in such a hurry to stop collecting. I bet all of us here have been ripped off at some point. (I got hosed for about $3k on something when I was 17, but later got my money back too.) At the least we've all overpaid for stuff that's good. It'll happen to you too. Consider all of it part of your right of passage. One day I'm sure you'll know enough to find a steal and flip it for a nice profit.

If Ron has offered you a refund, take it fast and don't look back. I've never dealt with CSI before but knowing what I do about them, I'm in no hurry to start.

The best thing you can do for yourself is to learn everything you can about what you're collecting. Before jumping into your next Pujols purchase, take a look at all the Pujols bat threads on GUU and visit Jeff Scott's site. Good luck Tony.

spartanservitto
05-26-2010, 10:18 AM
Thanks again.

Honestly, over the past week I would feel comfortable going after a Pujols bat. (IF i could ever find one now). This site is really a good thing for people, it allows you to research the item as well as the person your buying from. Im happy to be a part of it. Hopefully I have a lot of hobby left in me to use this.

-Tony

stlbats
05-26-2010, 08:08 PM
Hi Tony,

You will have to be patient. You will find tons of Pujols bats out there, but very very few authentic gamers. Even the Cardinals dont get very many if any per season to auction at their charity events.


Keep looking though, you never know when you'll run across one.

Jason