what will their legacy be?

[legaleagle92481]

i thought about this alot lately. what will the legacy of Lebron and alexender O. be if they never win titles?

Here is my opinion in some sports the ring does not really matter that much. In baseball Ted Williams, Griffey and Gwynn never won a ring and it really has not detracted much from their legacy. In football quarterback is really the only position where winning a ring is a big deal. In hockey and basketball though few great ones have not won it all. In the NBA Wilt Chamberlain won two titles and the big o, erving and west won one and it is considered a disappointment that they did not win more. jordan has 6 titles, kobe 4 closing in on a 5th, duncan and shaq have 4, hakeem has two, russell has like 9, bird has 3, magic 5, kareem i believe 6. the best players never to win are probably elgin baylor and karl malone and most people would probably not rank either among the 10 best players ever. In hockey gretzky has four, messier 6, orr two, lemieux two, brodeur 3, roy 4, sakic 2, yzerman 3. bourque was critcized until he finally won. so i think that if they do not each win at least two rings they cannot be considered top five players ever in their sport.

[WadeInBmore]

I don't think it neccessarily leaves a bad notch on their legacy, but they just get added to all the great players of all the major sports that didn't get to a championship...Tony Gwynn, Dan Marino, Peter Bondra (i don't really know hockey that well)...but you get my drift (nodding in agreement to legal)

On the radio here in Bmore a lot of people are talking about the make up of the teams with one star caliber player. Long of the short of it, Cleveland really hasn't put other people on Lebrons level around him. Shaq and Jamison aren't nearly the players that they once were 5 years ago. Lebron can only carry the team so far so long before he has an off day and his teammates need to step up to the occassion.

IMO a player is remembered for what they do and how they play, not how many championships they've won. I also think as the business side of things change and evolve players are traded and "bought" for their services for 1-3 years and the expectation is that the owner is building a championship team for now and not later...ie Yankees, Boston, Phillies.

I will always remember Griffey for his amazing defensive prowess in the outfield and his effortless swing that has launched 600 hrs in his 21 year career!!!!! I think it was Sparky Anderson that said if he has the best players he's always going to win.

wade

[Dewey2007]

i thought about this alot lately. what will the legacy of Lebron and alexender O. be if they never win titles?

Here is my opinion in some sports the ring does not really matter that much. In baseball Ted Williams, Griffey and Gwynn never won a ring and it really has not detracted much from their legacy. In football quarterback is really the only position where winning a ring is a big deal. In hockey and basketball though few great ones have not won it all. In the NBA Wilt Chamberlain won two titles and the big o, erving and west won one and it is considered a disappointment that they did not win more. jordan has 6 titles, kobe 4 closing in on a 5th, duncan and shaq have 4, hakeem has two, russell has like 9, bird has 3, magic 5, kareem i believe 6. the best players never to win are probably elgin baylor and karl malone and most people would probably not rank either among the 10 best players ever. In hockey gretzky has four, messier 6, orr two, lemieux two, brodeur 3, roy 4, sakic 2, yzerman 3. bourque was critcized until he finally won. so i think that if they do not each win at least two rings they cannot be considered top five players ever in their sport.

Of course their legacies will be less then if they don't win titles but I think it's much to early to think about the legacy of each of these players. That should happen when their careers are over and you can examine their full body of work. Gretzky and Lemeiux didn't win titles until their 6th and 7th years in the league and Ovechkin just completed his 5th season. Jordan didn't win his first title until his 7th season and LeBron has just completed his 7th season. After 7 years they each made it one NBA championship series. Also when Michael won his first title I believe he was just entering the prime of his career (27 years old). LeBron is still only 25 and yet to enter his prime years I believe. Also, I think if you give LeBron a hall of fame caliber teammate like Dwyane Wade (think Scotty Pippen) then I think he wins at least at least two titles. Jordan had Pippen and that cannot be overlooked. LeBron hasn't had anyone close to that as a teammate. Shaq is way past his prime to consider. I think almost every championship team has had at least two HOF caliber players or been great chemistry teams with one HOFer and great supporting cast and coach. I just don't think the Cavs had that this year. There are some exceptions but you see that Erving and the Big O didn't win their titles until they got that second HOFer (Moses Malone & Kareem Abdul Jabbar) as teammates. Unfortunately for Jerry West he had the Celtics teams to deal with but he always excelled in the postseason so that helped cement his legacy as one of the greats. Magic had Kareem and Kobe didn't win anything until he got Shaq. I think the Jazz will be the only team you ever see with two HOFers and a great coach that didn't eventually win a title.

[Mark17]

This thread is interesting to me and I agree with the premise. I think it will impact their legacies considerably.

My example is Elway. Losing QB of 3 Super Bowls, had he retired after the 1996 season, his career would've been somewhat empty. But he played another year and won the Super Bowl. Some thought it would be the right time to retire, but he played one more year and won another. Then he retired.

In my opinion, those 2 Super Bowl wins made his whole career and legacy story-book. The perfect way and time to call it quits. Contrast that with a Dan Marino. Every time I see him with the other greats, Montana, Elway, Stabler, Bradshaw, and so on, the elephant in the room is that he never won the big one.

In the odd way that Cubs fans have come to accept their fate, Ernie Banks' and Billy Williams' inability to win a World Series almst seems like a badge of honor, a tribute to playing for the love of the game, even with the fates, and the curse of the goat, insurmountable obstacles.

By the way, is that where the word "scapegoat" comes from? Cubs fans explaining why they didn't win last year, but might this season?