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View Full Version : Steiner admits there are many "fake" Steiner products



legaleagle92481
03-23-2010, 09:28 AM
Steiner has admitted to me that they are aware that there are many fake Steiner products out there and recommends that collectors avoid purchasing "Steiner" products off Ebay. They stated that they recommend collector's buy directly from them. I just figured I would post this in response to the discussions on here about this topic. If I were a direct dealer I would be extremely pissed off at them.

mbenga28
03-23-2010, 09:29 AM
you mean Brandon directly said this or one of his gremlin reps? and what kind of fake products, did they mean autographed items, game worn/issued related?

mbenga28
03-23-2010, 09:31 AM
They stated that they recommend collector's buy directly from them.

does anyone else feel that they are actually thrilled about there being "fake" Steiner knockoffs out on Ebay, then suggest you buy directly from them where you are at their mercy at paying full price?

legaleagle92481
03-23-2010, 09:34 AM
you mean Brandon directly said this or one of his gremlin reps? and what kind of fake products, did they mean autographed items, game worn/issued related?

One of the gremlins and he was talking about everything. I specfically brought up to him the Phil Hughes signed baseball that morphed into a Obama-Jordan "signed" baseball that was discussed on here last month and the star Yankee GI jerseys without loas.

legaleagle92481
03-23-2010, 09:37 AM
does anyone else feel that they are actually thrilled about there being "fake" Steiner knockoffs out on Ebay, then suggest you buy directly from them where you are at their mercy at paying full price?

Oh I know they are because he also said that if you buy from us you will pay a couple of bucks more but at least you know it is real. So basicially they are saying Steiner products are worthless unless you buy them directly from Steiner. So that basicially screws even those collectors looking to resell products that they bought from Steiner at retail and those direct dealers who invested in wholesale inventory and depend on the sale thereof for part of their livelihood.

mbenga28
03-23-2010, 09:40 AM
so say I go to one of the official clubhouse shops for one of the teams they partnership with, say the New York Yankees and one of their stores over at Times Square in New York City. They sell autographed Steiner authenticated photographs, am I not to buy from them now since it's not directly from Steiner?

suave1477
03-23-2010, 11:30 AM
so say I go to one of the official clubhouse shops for one of the teams they partnership with, say the New York Yankees and one of their stores over at Times Square in New York City. They sell autographed Steiner authenticated photographs, am I not to buy from them now since it's not directly from Steiner?


That is buying directly from Steiner

eric16841
03-23-2010, 11:49 AM
What i dont understand is buying a steiner item that is game used or issued comes with a hologram, a letter, and a numbered hologram matched on item and on letter. If your buying off ebay you should see all those items. I can see just on autos it being a little easier to fake but they should have the credit card coa and hologram. i think as long as you do your research your ok buying alternative. Its best if it comes directly from steiner but what about items they dont have anymore like older player that they sold all there game used years ago.

mbenga28
03-23-2010, 12:12 PM
That is buying directly from Steiner

why so, shouldn't a team clubhouse shop also be considered as a third party dealer? now if I purchased one of these from Steiner's store in Roosevelt Mall or Last Licks, I'd consider that as being directly from Steiner.

sportscentury
03-23-2010, 12:57 PM
Guys, if you follow GUU and the market, you should realize by now that the folks at Steiner are not the brightest bulbs in the shed. If they are spreading the word that the Steiner items on the secondary market (e.g., eBay) are fake, then this will ultimately DECREASE Steiner's sales. Why the heck would you want to pay Steiner's insanely high prices when you know that you won't be able to sell your Steiner on the secondary market if and when you tire of them or need to sell them to raise money for something? It's laughable. A real think tank they they have over there. We need to get their top sales rep "Jigga-Man" back on here to explain their business model! (GUU vets will enjoy this reference)

PwKw13
03-23-2010, 01:04 PM
If they are spreading the word that the Steiner items on the secondary market (e.g., eBay) are fake, then this will ultimately DECREASE Steiner's sales.

I agree. You would think that they would want people to believe that a Steiner certification means an item will hold its value.

indyred
03-23-2010, 01:10 PM
It's too bad they didn't do a better system in keeping track of game used stuff (Yankee, Red Sox, Dodgers) ect and had own serial # tags sewn in like MeiGray has. Then keep it all in a data base and keep population reports on the jerseys. So people can tell how many jerseys were worn each season ect.

mbenga28
03-23-2010, 01:17 PM
what's the purpose of using those numbered holograms if they're not even trackable, why not just issue the same general hologram they place on their signed items?

sportscentury, is it true that some of the more coveted items they do not list on their website and instead notify mailing lists recipients to not only give them first change before everyone else but to preclude use of discount codes?

sportscentury
03-23-2010, 01:34 PM
It's too bad they didn't do a better system in keeping track of game used stuff (Yankee, Red Sox, Dodgers) ect and had own serial # tags sewn in like MeiGray has. Then keep it all in a data base and keep population reports on the jerseys. So people can tell how many jerseys were worn each season ect.

Indy, do you remember the old GUU threads when people argued with me that Steiner's tracking system was as good as MeiGray's? At the time, I just had to laugh. There would be many laughing with me now. I wonder where these GUU users are now? They still post, but not in any of the recent threads about Steiner's tracking system, the fake items on eBay, or this thread about Steiner telling LegalEagle that you can only trust Steiner items that are purchased directly from the company. No surprise, though.

BCowan40
03-23-2010, 01:39 PM
Hi everyone one of the “gremlin’s” or "brightest bulbs in the shed" aka "Jigga-Man" chiming in here. I had to jump in here and hopefully nip this one in the bud before it spirals out of control as I can already see is happening. Without being a part of the conversation that was cited and without knowing who the conversation was between I do feel the need to set the record straight. Steiner Sports is not and has never "spread the word that Steiner items on the secondary market are fake." Again I was not part of the alleged conversation but what I think was meant to be said was the Steiner Sports is aware of fakes and misrepresentations that can happen on the secondary market, by no means are all secondary market purchases potential for fakes but the unfortunate reality as a lot of you know is in this day and age people do dishonest things and may misrepresent something in an effort to make a fast buck (a perfect example being the Obama/Jordan baseball which was portrayed as a Steiner item). Is it true that the best way to guarantee an item's authenticity is to buy directly from Steiner? Yes that's absolutely true but you can 100% get great and legitimate Steiner items on the secondary market. Nobody here believes that items not purchased directly from us are worthless at all we just don’t like to get involved in commenting on e-bay or other secondary sources because we don’t want to run into trouble in instances where our documentation has been tampered or someone is misrepresenting items. We stand behind our products and their authenticity as well as our dealers who resell our products. I think this thread has turned into a very big misunderstanding.

sportscentury
03-23-2010, 01:40 PM
what's the purpose of using those numbered holograms if they're not even trackable, why not just issue the same general hologram they place on their signed items?

sportscentury, is it true that some of the more coveted items they do not list on their website and instead notify mailing lists recipients to not only give them first change before everyone else but to preclude use of discount codes?

Mbenga, I really don't know. Andrew/AllStarsPlus and some others would be better able to answer this question. I really have never bought much from Steiner. I buy regularly from MeiGray and also some top items from Upper Deck here and there, but most of my buying is from my NBA contacts or a handful of reputable collectors. I have tried to buy from Steiner a few times, but each time have had the feeling that the sales rep simply didn't know what he was talking about -- when you are considering buying a top-dollar item, this is not exactly the feeling that gets you comfortable enough to pull the trigger.

sportscentury
03-23-2010, 01:50 PM
Hi everyone one of the “gremlin’s” or "brightest bulbs in the shed" aka "Jigga-Man" chiming in here. I had to jump in here and hopefully nip this one in the bud before it spirals out of control as I can already see is happening. Without being a part of the conversation that was cited and without knowing who the conversation was between I do feel the need to set the record straight. Steiner Sports is not and has never "spread the word that Steiner items on the secondary market are fake." Again I was not part of the alleged conversation but what I think was meant to be said was the Steiner Sports is aware of fakes and misrepresentations that can happen on the secondary market, by no means are all secondary market purchases potential for fakes but the unfortunate reality as a lot of you know is in this day and age people do dishonest things and may misrepresent something in an effort to make a fast buck (a perfect example being the Obama/Jordan baseball which was portrayed as a Steiner item). Is it true that the best way to guarantee an item's authenticity is to buy directly from Steiner? Yes that's absolutely true but you can 100% get great and legitimate Steiner items on the secondary market. Nobody here believes that items not purchased directly from us are worthless at all we just don’t like to get involved in commenting on e-bay or other secondary sources because we don’t want to run into trouble in instances where our documentation has been tampered or someone is misrepresenting items. We stand behind our products and their authenticity as well as our dealers who resell our products. I think this thread has turned into a very big misunderstanding.

Thanks for chiming in, Jigga. I, for one, want to thank LegalEagle for his post, and for starting this thread. He is a well-respected, regular poster here on GUU, and also a collector of Steiner items. He has no reason to make up a story or "alleged conversation" as you put it. The implicit suggestion that his report may be less than honest is not fair. Sharing this type of critical information is what helps us to look out for each other here on GUU, so LegalEagle is to be thanked for his contribution.

mbenga28
03-23-2010, 01:58 PM
agreed with sportscentury, and if there was a question regarding authenticity with say a MeiGray product, Barry Meisel would be here in a heartbeat to try to clarify matters. I'd like to hear Mr. Brandon Steiner address us, the valued customers, directly for a change.

BCowan40
03-23-2010, 01:58 PM
Sportscentury I’m with you about Legal’s post that’s exactly what this forum is about, I applaud his post as well. Multiple people have asked for a comment from the “bright bulbs in the shed” so I was making an effort to help as well. If you perceive it as an attack on Legal then I sincerely apologize. I was not in anyway calling him a liar or saying he made anything up, I used the word alleged simply because I was not a part of the conversation. I’m trying to help as well and clear up the misunderstandings that are permeating through this forum. Steiner Sports is not spreading the word that Steiner items on the secondary market are fake as some have said. I’m not doubting something along those lines was said in a one on one conversation between two people I’m stating that as a company we are not saying anything even remotely close to what’s being alleged. We believe that we are the best place to buy Steiner products of course but you can without a doubt get legit Steiner items in other places, that’s all I’m saying, nothing more, nothing less.

sportscentury
03-23-2010, 02:05 PM
agreed with sportscentury, and if there was a question regarding authenticity with say a MeiGray product, Barry Meisel would be here in a heartbeat to try to clarify matters. I'd like to hear Mr. Brandon Steiner address us, the valued customers, directly for a change.

Exactly.

BULBUS
03-23-2010, 02:05 PM
what's the purpose of using those numbered holograms if they're not even trackable, why not just issue the same general hologram they place on their signed items?

I think the main purpose of the numbered holograms was to make sure the LOA and the game used/issued item go together. Before the numbers, there seemed to be a lot of "switching". Also, I think Steiner had the intention of starting a database for the hologram numbers, but for whatever reason, never followed through.

Steiner is now using MLB Authentication more and more, so I see that as a step in the right direction.

-Chris

BULBUS
03-23-2010, 02:11 PM
Brooks,

Do you have any comment on the Steiner game issued jerseys (on Ebay) discussed here. They are all star players, game issued, without the LOA's. The latest was a Jeter game issued WS jersey.

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=33860

nickacs
03-23-2010, 02:13 PM
Mr. Cowan-
Could you please address the fact that if you lookup Steiner hologram#'s via your website, they are always 'Not found'? Furthermore, in the past I have emailed certain Steiner employee's about specific Steiner hologram#'s to verify on Steiner's end and am always told 'We don't keep any record of them.'

I find this very irresponsible and as any other game-used memorabilia collector here or anywhere, if "buying directly" from Steiner is 100%, then I would expect the same level of satisfaction that on any given day, I can use your website or contact a Steiner employee and verify the game-used Steiner collectible in possession is 100% legit "game used".

I'm not trying to pick any fights here with you/Steiner, but in just the last several weeks, there have been several forum members here post similar threads and, personally, I have come in contact with two Steiner "game worn" jerseys with hologram #'s that are questionable at the very least. But without verifying the hologram#'s, it makes the latter more difficult.

Thank you in advance.

legaleagle92481
03-23-2010, 02:16 PM
Hi everyone one of the “gremlin’s” or "brightest bulbs in the shed" aka "Jigga-Man" chiming in here. I had to jump in here and hopefully nip this one in the bud before it spirals out of control as I can already see is happening. Without being a part of the conversation that was cited and without knowing who the conversation was between I do feel the need to set the record straight. Steiner Sports is not and has never "spread the word that Steiner items on the secondary market are fake." Again I was not part of the alleged conversation but what I think was meant to be said was the Steiner Sports is aware of fakes and misrepresentations that can happen on the secondary market, by no means are all secondary market purchases potential for fakes but the unfortunate reality as a lot of you know is in this day and age people do dishonest things and may misrepresent something in an effort to make a fast buck (a perfect example being the Obama/Jordan baseball which was portrayed as a Steiner item). Is it true that the best way to guarantee an item's authenticity is to buy directly from Steiner? Yes that's absolutely true but you can 100% get great and legitimate Steiner items on the secondary market. Nobody here believes that items not purchased directly from us are worthless at all we just don’t like to get involved in commenting on e-bay or other secondary sources because we don’t want to run into trouble in instances where our documentation has been tampered or someone is misrepresenting items. We stand behind our products and their authenticity as well as our dealers who resell our products. I think this thread has turned into a very big misunderstanding.

There is nothing "alleged" about the conversation. It took place by email and I retained a copy of it if you would like to see it. I would never post an email in a public forum but I felt that the information was very important to the collecting community so I communicated it here. I and other have noticed a widespread and disturbing pattern of fake "Steiner" products lately and I hope that Steiner takes its head out of the sand and takes the necessary action to correct this problem, which affects everyone in the collecting community. Yes, you stand behind "your" products but what about those products that are falsely passed off as yours? That people invested their hard earned money in, what happens to them?

indyred
03-23-2010, 02:31 PM
Can someone post some examples of what are supposed to be fake Steiner items out on the market?
I've never seen fake Steiner autograph items with both their hologram and COA with it.

mbenga28
03-23-2010, 02:40 PM
Can someone post some examples of what are supposed to be fake Steiner items out on the market?
I've never seen fake Steiner autograph items with both their hologram and COA with it.

this was posted in another thread.

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/6158/img0878.jpg

legaleagle92481
03-23-2010, 02:42 PM
Can someone post some examples of what are supposed to be fake Steiner items out on the market?
I've never seen fake Steiner autograph items with both their hologram and COA with it.

The famous Obama-Michael Jordan dual signed baseball is a great example. It had a Steiner hologram and Steiner Credit Card COA and was purported to be signed by both. The guy did an amazing job of doctoring and the Obama was a pretty good forgery but he forgot to remove the MLB hologram and gave the # on the doctored COA that corresponded to a Phil Hughes baseball. Other examples appear to be the game issued jerseys of star Yankees that have turned up in quantity being sold by a particular seller on Ebay that have the hologram but no LOA. There was a Mariano Riveria purported game used world series jersey that also generated much discussion on here that raised serious concerns as to its origin.

David
03-23-2010, 02:54 PM
The problem with the 'buy only directly from us' idea is that their memorabilia only has long term value if it has secondary market resale value. If it doesn't have resale value on the secondary market, few people will invest in Steiner. Once you buy something from Steiner, the only way you can can get money from the item is on the secondary market.

David
03-23-2010, 02:56 PM
In short, for their own benefit, Steiner should be protecting their stuff on the secondary market and hoping it sells well and smoothly on the secondary market.

skinsfan0521
03-23-2010, 02:57 PM
I think that if Steiner was actually concerned about the authenticity of their items, they would just keep a database of all the numbers for you to look up. It's the simplest thing they could do and would go the furthest in restoring confidence in Steiner.

It always amazes me how these memorabilia companies seem to get further out of touch with customers as they get bigger. You'd think that as they get bigger, the better they would get at these things because they have more staff and capital to spend on these improvements... but it seems to be the exact opposite. They're growing as a company and forgetting about the details that made people respect them so that they could grow. EVERY reputable game used dealer (even small/new ones) has hologram numbers that can be matched using their website. It would take me literally 10 min to add that code to their website w/the database... and I'm not even a great web programmer.

Just unnecessarily irresponsible in my opinion...

indyred
03-23-2010, 03:00 PM
this was posted in another thread.

http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/6158/img0878.jpg

What is fake about it? Isn't it just a game issued jersey. Did you get it straight from Steiner or from Ebay.

skinsfan0521
03-23-2010, 03:00 PM
In short, for their own benefit, Steiner should be protecting their stuff on the secondary market and hoping it sells well and smoothly on the secondary market.
I completely agree David.

The only way they stay a respected company among the collecting community is to protect their name by making it easier for somebody to buy/sell on the secondary market. If they take away the option to sell on the secondary market by not allowing people to do research, then they've shot themselves in the foot.

The problem is that they don't quite see that far into the future. They're looking at the immediate future and what they can do to sell the stuff directly, but they fail to realize the best way to build up their brand is to make their name a respected one on the secondary market.

mbenga28
03-23-2010, 03:03 PM
What is fake about it? Isn't it just a game issued jersey. Did you get it straight from Steiner or from Ebay.

right the game issued ones that some suspected were made from blank jerseys that only had a Steiner hologram and no LOA.

BULBUS
03-23-2010, 03:15 PM
right the game issued ones that some suspected were made from blank jerseys that only had a Steiner hologram and no LOA.

mbenga,

the jersey you posted is another members jersey who got it directly from steiner and it has an loa.

sportscentury
03-23-2010, 03:17 PM
The problem with the 'buy only directly from us' idea is that their memorabilia only has long term value if it has secondary market resale value. If it doesn't have resale value on the secondary market, few people will invest in Steiner. Once you buy something from Steiner, the only way you can can get money from the item is on the secondary market.

Yes, this was the point of my first post in this thread (see post #10).

suave1477
03-23-2010, 03:20 PM
Another thread spun completely out of control for no reason

skinsfan0521
03-23-2010, 03:24 PM
Another thread spun completely out of control for no reason
I'm not quite sure what's "out of control" about it. Just pointing out that Steiner is doing nothing to help their customers out in the long run. They're short-sighted and aren't protecting their customer by building a reliable brand.

BULBUS
03-23-2010, 03:24 PM
Another thread spun completely out of control for no reason

I wouldnt say its out of control. We have a Steiner rep responding. More questions should be directed at him and maybe we can get some answers.

sportscentury
03-23-2010, 03:27 PM
Another thread spun completely out of control for no reason

Jason, I know you do a lot of business with Steiner, but your statement is inaccurate. There is nothing wrong with this thread, and it is not even close to being "completely out of control." LegalEagle brought a legitimate point to the table and it is being discussed reasonably by GUU members.

suave1477
03-23-2010, 03:29 PM
I wouldnt say its out of control. We have a Steiner rep responding. More questions should be directed at him and maybe we can get some answers.


Bulbus you have a Steiner rep who took the time out of his day to just lend a halping hand and try to make sense of what was possibly may have been a misunderstanding that was it.

And members here jump all over him like vultures.

It was completely uncalled for and now you want him to answer questions after you attacked him???

I mean come on are you serious?

He was just trying to help

BCowan40
03-23-2010, 03:29 PM
Bulbus I'd be more then happy to answer/discuss anything you or anyone else would like, feel free to give me a call at 914-307-1004 or shoot me an e-mail at bcowan@steinersports.com. I'm always willing to help where I can. Not promising I'm the end all be all for answers or can fix everyones issues in a day but I'm willing to help where possible.

suave1477
03-23-2010, 03:30 PM
Jason, I know you do a lot of business with Steiner, but your statement is inaccurate. There is nothing wrong with this thread, and it is not even close to being "completely out of control." LegalEagle brought a legitimate point to the table and it is being discussed reasonably by GUU members.


Sportscentury have I done business with Steiner YES. Is my opinion bias NO.
I am a very objective person and believe in standing for what is right.

Attacking someone for trying to help is wrong period ended.

skinsfan0521
03-23-2010, 03:32 PM
Bulbus I'd be more then happy to answer/discuss anything you or anyone else would like, feel free to give me a call at 914-307-1004 or shoot me an e-mail at bcowan@steinersports.com. I'm always willing to help where I can. Not promising I'm the end all be all for answers or can fix everyones issues in a day but I'm willing to help where possible.
I think it would be most helpful if you answered questions in this (or a new thread) so it can be public knowledge.

I, personally, only have one question:

Why doesn't Steiner keep track of hologram numbers and make them available to search online?

It would improve confidence 100% if that simple thing were implemented.

Thanks a lot!

-Brian

sonic
03-23-2010, 03:38 PM
Thanks for chiming in, Jigga. I, for one, want to thank LegalEagle for his post, and for starting this thread. He is a well-respected, regular poster here on GUU, and also a collector of Steiner items. He has no reason to make up a story or "alleged conversation" as you put it. The implicit suggestion that his report may be less than honest is not fair. Sharing this type of critical information is what helps us to look out for each other here on GUU, so LegalEagle is to be thanked for his contribution.

Long time lurker, infrequent poster here.

I agree that its crucial for there to be as much transparency as possible in our hobby, but I'm not sure this thread is a constructive way to accomplish that. The OP posted a rather inflammatory conclusion that, if true, damages Steiner's reputration. The responsible thing to have done was cut and paste the email exchange verbatim and let people draw their own conclusions.

Moreover, Steiner seems to have been very helpful to the OP in authenticating his recent eBay purchase so as a matter of common courtesy I'm not sure that throwing the company under the bus was appropriate given that context of the conversation.

BULBUS
03-23-2010, 03:40 PM
And members here jump all over him like vultures.


Who directly attacked Mr. Cowan? There is a lot of Steiner bashing, sure, but I havent seen any "vultures".



Brooks,

If you could answer a couple of the questions asked here on the forum, maybe it will help a lot more people understand Steiners thinking. Why no data base for the holograms? Have you seen the game issued jerseys on Ebay?

Thanks,
Chris

suave1477
03-23-2010, 03:43 PM
Who directly attacked Mr. Cowan? There is a lot of Steiner bashing, sure, but I havent seen any "vultures".



Chris


I am not going to go into naming names if you read the thread you can see. The point is the guy was just trying to help.

suave1477
03-23-2010, 03:44 PM
Long time lurker, infrequent poster here.

I agree that its crucial for there to be as much transparency as possible in our hobby, but I'm not sure this thread is a constructive way to accomplish that. The OP posted a rather inflammatory conclusion that, if true, damages Steiner's reputration. The responsible thing to have done was cut and paste the email exchange verbatim and let people draw their own conclusions.

Moreover, Steiner seems to have been very helpful to the OP in authenticating his recent eBay purchase so as a matter of common courtesy I'm not sure that throwing the company under the bus was appropriate given that context of the conversation.


Sonic well said

mbenga28
03-23-2010, 03:46 PM
I re-read the other thread and apologize to the member, if you're reading this. And if my reference to gremlin was taken in a pejorative light, I apologize for that as well - though with my correspondences with other Steiner reps in the past left that impression with me. I'd e-mail them inquiring about a product and when I inquired just a little more, they'd just ignore me and never reply back.

legaleagle92481
03-23-2010, 03:51 PM
Long time lurker, infrequent poster here.

I agree that its crucial for there to be as much transparency as possible in our hobby, but I'm not sure this thread is a constructive way to accomplish that. The OP posted a rather inflammatory conclusion that, if true, damages Steiner's reputration. The responsible thing to have done was cut and paste the email exchange verbatim and let people draw their own conclusions.

Moreover, Steiner seems to have been very helpful to the OP in authenticating his recent eBay purchase so as a matter of common courtesy I'm not sure that throwing the company under the bus was appropriate given that context of the conversation.

Ok here is the portion of the email relevant to this post:

"We are aware of all the counterfeit Steiner items out there…that’s why we always recommend steering clear of eBay and purchasing directly from us. Sometimes, it might be worth a little extra money for the peace of mind that comes with knowing your product is 100% real!"

mbenga28
03-23-2010, 03:55 PM
did a female write that, gosh I hope that's not who I think it is.

sportscentury
03-23-2010, 03:56 PM
Ok here is the portion of the email relevant to this post:

"We are aware of all the counterfeit Steiner items out there…that’s why we always recommend steering clear of eBay and purchasing directly from us. Sometimes, it might be worth a little extra money for the peace of mind that comes with knowing your product is 100% real!"



Well, there you have it. I don't believe LegalEagle has acted at all irresponsibly. Even the Steiner representative said he applauded LegalEagle's post.

legaleagle92481
03-23-2010, 03:57 PM
did a female write that, gosh I hope that's not who I think it is.

I am not outing the writer or giving any clues as to his or her id. I don't want anyone to get in trouble at work over it it is not the writer's fault as he/she does not set the policy at Steiner and that person was very helpful.

sportscentury
03-23-2010, 03:58 PM
I am not outing the writer or giving any clues as to his or her id. I don't want anyone to get in trouble at work over it it is not the writer's fault as he/she does not set the policy at Steiner and that person was very helpful.

Actually, his/her honesty is rather refreshing.

indyred
03-23-2010, 05:52 PM
mbenga,

the jersey you posted is another members jersey who got it directly from steiner and it has an loa.

Yeah I thought he said he just took the hologram off and put it on the COA. So nothing is fake about that Jeter game issued jersey posted?

mbenga28
03-23-2010, 06:31 PM
Yeah I thought he said he just took the hologram off and put it on the COA. So nothing is fake about that Jeter game issued jersey posted?

I read that also, but why the hell would you do something like that? if you lose the LOA and the jersey has nothing on its tagging to prove its authenticity it becomes worthless then.

legaleagle92481
03-23-2010, 07:09 PM
here is the thread about the fake gi jerseys. http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=33860

mbrieve
03-23-2010, 07:24 PM
Ok here is the portion of the email relevant to this post:

"We are aware of all the counterfeit Steiner items out there…that’s why we always recommend steering clear of eBay and purchasing directly from us. Sometimes, it might be worth a little extra money for the peace of mind that comes with knowing your product is 100% real!"


Let me first start off by saying that Steiner may have their problems, but if I were to say that I received the same e-mail from Mitchell & Ness, would their be the same outrage? Counterfeiting is a problem that any large company with a "good" name has to deal with (just ask Rolex, Louis Vitton, Coach, Burberry, etc.). Each of those companies have had to deal with knockoffs/counterfeits, and all of them would be justified in saying to only buy directly from them and their authorized dealers to be 100% confident that they are getting an authentic item.

As for the fake Obama/Jordan signed baseball...that to me was the equivalent of browsing the Rolex watches in battery park. Both signatures were clearly forgeries and I am pretty sure that Steiner does not act as a third party authenticator--meaning unless they secured a private signing with Obama, they would not place their hologram on it to authenticate it.

Just adding to the conversation...I think both sides have good points (i.e. Updating holograph serial numbers on their website). Again, just my .02

sportscentury
03-23-2010, 07:31 PM
Let me first start off by saying that Steiner may have their problems, but if I were to say that I received the same e-mail from Mitchell & Ness, would their be the same outrage? Counterfeiting is a problem that any large company with a "good" name has to deal with (just ask Rolex, Louis Vitton, Coach, Burberry, etc.). Each of those companies have had to deal with knockoffs/counterfeits, and all of them would be justified in saying to only buy directly from them and their authorized dealers to be 100% confident that they are getting an authentic item.

As for the fake Obama/Jordan signed baseball...that to me was the equivalent of browsing the Rolex watches in battery park. Both signatures were clearly forgeries and I am pretty sure that Steiner does not act as a third party authenticator--meaning unless they secured a private signing with Obama, they would not place their hologram on it to authenticate it.

Just adding to the conversation...I think both sides have good points (i.e. Updating holograph serial numbers on their website). Again, just my .02

Of course not. This is a GAME USED forum. If you were to receive the same email from MeiGray or JO Sports (companies that sell game used items), then of course there would be the same "outrage."

mbrieve
03-23-2010, 07:44 PM
Of course not. This is a GAME USED forum. If you were to receive the same email from MeiGray or JO Sports (companies that sell game used items), then of course there would be the same "outrage."
Fair point, but this discussion has covered both signed items and game used items offered by Steiner. It seems that their main problem deals with people using their holograms in a dishonest way.

I don't have a dog in the fight, but it seems their main problem stems from their holograms and serial numbers not being entered into their database. However, when you become one of the big boys (as mentioned in my earlier thread) you become the target of counterfeiters...it is now up to Steiner to work to combat against this. Their continued success probably hinges on how they respond to this adversity.

kylehess10
03-23-2010, 07:54 PM
I'm starting to lose my trust in Steiner, and I will no longer buy anything with a Steiner hologram UNLESS it's photomatched (all my Steiner stuff is photomatched so I don't have to worry about it).

A few days ago I helped a forum member declare that his Jeter home jersey that was supposed to be direct from Steiner isn't real. It had the matching holograms and the LOA, so nothing appeared wrong, until I attempted to photomatch the jersey to the timeframe it was worn (which was a 2-month period). I checked photos and video from every game and couldn't find it. He was also looking at an Alex Rodriguez game worn jersey and I did the same research on that jersey and couldn't find a match for it either! I checked every single game....no match could be made. There's just too many fakes that Steiner is selling. They're becoming the new Lou Lampson with their authentication.


And in regards to Steiner selling game issued jerseys; I believe they should mark the jersey with ANYTHING that can't be tampered with. I remember I once saw a Nolan Ryan jersey that was a Scoreboard jersey from 1989, and Nolan signed the jersey with the inscription "this is not my jersey". Probably the best inscription I've ever seen. Game issued jerseys need to be tagged in a special way to identify them easier. Would it really hurt them to write "GI" somewhere on the inner part of the jersey?

mbrieve
03-23-2010, 07:59 PM
I'm starting to lose my trust in Steiner, and I will no longer buy anything with a Steiner hologram UNLESS it's photomatched (all my Steiner stuff is photomatched so I don't have to worry about it).

A few days ago I helped a forum member declare that his Jeter home jersey that was supposed to be direct from Steiner isn't real. It had the matching holograms and the LOA, so nothing appeared wrong, until I attempted to photomatch the jersey to the timeframe it was worn (which was a 2-month period). I checked photos and video from every game and couldn't find it. He was also looking at an Alex Rodriguez game worn jersey and I did the same research on that jersey and couldn't find a match for it either! I checked every single game....no match could be made. There's just too many fakes that Steiner is selling. They're becoming the new Lou Lampson with their authentication.


And in regards to Steiner selling game issued jerseys; I believe they should mark the jersey with ANYTHING that can't be tampered with. I remember I once saw a Nolan Ryan jersey that was a Scoreboard jersey from 1989, and Nolan signed the jersey with the inscription "this is not my jersey". Probably the best inscription I've ever seen. Game issued jerseys need to be tagged in a special way to identify them easier. Would it really hurt them to write "GI" somewhere on the inner part of the jersey?
Were the Jeter and ARod jerseys directly from Steiner or were these on the secondary market (meaning somebody may have tampered with holograms). This is troubling no matter how you slice it, but it would be helpful to clarify the origins of the purchase.

gingi79
03-23-2010, 08:12 PM
I am so happy they don't handle my teams. I sincerely hope Yankee collectors band together and refuse to deal with these people.

If Brandon Steiner was even 1 1/100th the business man, or could even spell the word ethics the same way say.....Barry Meisel does, NONE OF THESE ISSUES WOULD EXIST.

I realize I am only a college educated teacher and obviously not a businessman but if MeiGray can have exactly ZERO of the authenticity issues of Steiner, why can't they just steal the tagging deal and TADA! no more questioning.

How can you offer authenticity guarantees and not have a database of what the holograms line up with? Who came up that this plan? The 100 feces throwing monkeys who couldn't write MacBeth?

nickacs
03-23-2010, 08:19 PM
Were the Jeter and ARod jerseys directly from Steiner or were these on the secondary market (meaning somebody may have tampered with holograms). This is troubling no matter how you slice it, but it would be helpful to clarify the origins of the purchase.

I have the Jeter in my possession and have been offered the ARod. At this time, I cannot comment on the origins and outcome quite yet as I am still reviewing and will be hopefully talking to a Steiner employee tomorrow.

If the outcome is that either/both are not legit, I will be more than happy to post everything from start to finish :) There are a couple GUU members that have helped me out tremendously so far and would appreciate their confidentiality as well in my situation. I've learned to do your research first and then post/comment later than making premature statements.

As the saying goes, "innocent until proven guilty"!

ferro39
03-23-2010, 08:33 PM
Fair point, but this discussion has covered both signed items and game used items offered by Steiner. It seems that their main problem deals with people using their holograms in a dishonest way.

I don't have a dog in the fight, but it seems their main problem stems from their holograms and serial numbers not being entered into their database. However, when you become one of the big boys (as mentioned in my earlier thread) you become the target of counterfeiters...it is now up to Steiner to work to combat against this. Their continued success probably hinges on how they respond to this adversity.

that's the thing, though. they have never dealt with the adversity.

they have been keeping horrible records of their nyy game used items for as long as they have been handling them--everything from incorrect and vague letters to a slew of unidentifiable merchandise, which collectors are forced to do their own research on.

then there's their customer service, which is horrendous. the comical thing is that i actually no longer buy products directly from steiner because dealing with their customer service reps after they screw up an order (which, in my experiences, has been close to automatic) isnt worth the heart burn.

then, there stuff going on like this with no plan to counter attack.

meigray, on the other hand, addresses the problems when they pop up; alerts collectors about fake jerseys; is happy to field phone calls from collectors looking at jerseys both on ebay or for sale by collectors; and iirc, has even been proactive in getting bogus jerseys with bogus meigray tags pulled off of ebay.

if steiner was doing something, err anything, to help protect the people who keep them in business, we probably wouldnt be seeing the so-called pile-on here.

i mean, how out of touch are they with the same tino martinez GI BP jersey for sale for 2k for the past 9 years?

mbenga28
03-23-2010, 08:43 PM
are the Jeter and A-Rod game used jerseys you're trying to photomatched MLB Authenticated?

There was the Andy Pettitte 2009 home jersey that I was really interested in picking up, but I could not find any photo matches that aligned the pinstripes to the NY logo and 2009 Inaugural patch and when I asked a Steiner rep if he could help me by letting me know the MLB Authenticated number so I could check on the database, he simply said the jersey is MLB Authenticated and wouldn't budge revealing the serial number on the hologram. was there something to hide?

nickacs
03-23-2010, 08:55 PM
are the Jeter and A-Rod game used jerseys you're trying to photomatched MLB Authenticated?


No, neither are. That's another reason why it's very fishy. There's a Jeter '07 that's been on Ebay several times during the same timeperiod these Jeter/ARod's were worn and both Steiner and MLB hologram authenticated. And it can be photomatched with no problem.
I guess it's possible neither were MLB authenticated, but almost every modern day's bball superstar jersey has been. And these are 2 of the biggest and nothing? Hmmm....

Hate to say it, but lately I'm starting to feel that having a jersey MLB hologram authenticated has more "credibility" than just a Steiner letter/hologram# alone.

skinsfan0521
03-23-2010, 10:00 PM
The whole point behind all of this is that if Steiner would just make a VERY SIMPLE modification to their website and inventory process, there would not be any of these issues. Sure, people would still be trying to counterfeit stuff, but at least Steiner would be making an effort to prevent them.

They offer an "Authenticity Guarantee" (link here (http://www.steinersports.com/ssm/control/authenticity)), but what good is that "guarantee" if it can't be proven. If you go to that link, they claim (#2), that the have a detailed, signed affidavit of EVERY item that goes through their company. If that's truly the case, why is it impossible for them to determine if items are authentic or not... well, besides the "trust us, it's good" line. That just sounds like a shady used car dealer line instead of a respected business in the high dollar sports memorabilia industry.

Again, this could all be fixed in a weekend if they're really serious about helping collectors and securing the future of their company.

mbenga28
03-24-2010, 07:22 AM
I'm curious to know the process in which Steiner receives their game jerseys, like from the Yankees. Do the Yankees just dump their inventory on them and let them figure it out for themselves what's game used/game issued and then Steiner creates the LOA? or do the LOAs accompany the items when the team gives them to Steiner?

What troubles me is that there doesn't seem to be the presence of a team representative authenticating these items as well. You just get a letter with a preprinted signature from Brandon Steiner unconditionally guaranteeing its authenticity. Whereas with MeiGray, you get both genuine signatures from Barry Meisel and (most importantly) another signature from someone affiliated with the team, or organization.

BULBUS
03-24-2010, 09:02 AM
hey dork, welcome aboard. pretty impressive for your first post :D

allstarsplus
03-24-2010, 09:34 AM
hey dork, welcome aboard. pretty impressive for your first post :D

First and last post. Dork_No-wits-ski (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/modcp/user.php?do=viewuser&u=5418) is a banned previous member.

BULBUS
03-24-2010, 09:44 AM
First and last post. Dork_No-wits-ski (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/modcp/user.php?do=viewuser&u=5418) is a banned previous member.

I kind of figured. His post seemed a little familiar :D

allstarsplus
03-24-2010, 09:50 AM
I kind of figured. His post seemed a little familiar :D

It looks like it was deleted. I started reading the threads from #1 to the most current to follow this and it was gone when I got back to this page.

sportscentury
03-24-2010, 10:01 AM
First and last post. Dork_No-wits-ski (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/modcp/user.php?do=viewuser&u=5418) is a banned previous member.

Yup, I knew that post wasn't going to last long!

nickacs
03-24-2010, 10:06 AM
Yup, I knew that post wasn't going to last long!

But boy, was it a good one. I actually wish it would stay up because there were a lot of good points in it. But also some laugh out loud comments :)

suave1477
03-24-2010, 11:25 AM
Here is what I do not get, why someone would continuously keep coming back where he is not wanted??

Doesn't make sense to me, the guy is banned time and time again and keeps coming back.


It's like back in school he tried to hang with the cool kids and got booted out from the group and still keeps lurking around hopng one day they will accept him. Yet all they do is make fun of him.

You would think he would just move on and find another forum to spaz out on!!

sportscentury
03-24-2010, 11:46 AM
But boy, was it a good one. I actually wish it would stay up because there were a lot of good points in it. But also some laugh out loud comments :)

My thoughts exactly. I knew it wouldn't last, but it made some excellent points and told it like it is. It was also rather funny!

We'll see how long Bob's post lasts. Welcome aboard, Bob... for now, anyway.

sportscentury
03-24-2010, 11:48 AM
Here is what I do not get, why someone would continuously keep coming back where he is not wanted??

Doesn't make sense to me, the guy is banned time and time again and keeps coming back.


It's like back in school he tried to hang with the cool kids and got booted out from the group and still keeps lurking around hopng one day they will accept him. Yet all they do is make fun of him.

You would think he would just move on and find another forum to spaz out on!!

Gosh ... if only.

;)

.

suave1477
03-24-2010, 11:55 AM
Gosh ... if only.

;)

.


I don't want to get ahead of myself here but Sportscentury does this mean we are now friends??? lol:p

tigerdale
03-25-2010, 05:44 AM
usually I dont post in to many threads like this....but you all know what a tiger fan I am & to get a ball from the playoffs in 2006 when the tigers played the Mets at Shea stadium....what can I say........

indyred
04-02-2010, 10:13 AM
I read that also, but why the hell would you do something like that? if you lose the LOA and the jersey has nothing on its tagging to prove its authenticity it becomes worthless then.

I guess will see, looks he is trying to move it on ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Steiner-Yankees-Derek-Jeter-road-gray-2009-game-jersey_W0QQitemZ150429180369QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_ DefaultDomain_0?hash=item23064721d1