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View Full Version : What do you think about the Olympic GU prices??



skinsfan0521
03-19-2010, 05:06 PM
Basically, I've been watching some of the game/event used items on eBay being sold by the official Vancouver username and have been really surprised by how high some have gone. Some (most) seem completely insane to me, which is why I want your opinion.

Do you think they're crazy prices too, or is it just me? Do you think that these items will ever hold their value or is it just a hype factor that's driving the prices up this high right now?

Some examples:
Team Canada autographed souvenir stick. NOT game used (http://cgi.ebay.com/Team-Canada-Mens-Hockey-Signed-Wooden-Souvenir-Stick_W0QQitemZ170457941005QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_D efaultDomain_2?hash=item27b015c40d) -- $7k+

Game Used USA vs Canada Gold Medal game hockey puck (http://cgi.ebay.com/MENS-GOLD-MEDAL-Game-Used-Puck-CAN-vs-USA-2nd-period_W0QQitemZ170453314465QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_ DefaultDomain_2?hash=item27afcf2ba1) -- $5,900+
**Many other game used pucks from that game ranging from $3,600 - $5,500

Tons of autographed REPLICA Canada hockey jerseys of various players for well over $1k

8x10 auto of Canadian Gold Medal mogul skier (http://cgi.ebay.com/Canadian-Gold-Medalist-Alexandre-Bilodeau-Signed-8x10_W0QQitemZ170453659701QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_De faultDomain_2?hash=item27afd47035) -- $700
** Many other auto'd 8x10s of various athletes for $300+++

REPLICA panel from skiing mogul competition (http://cgi.ebay.com/Vancouver-2010-Replica-Competition-Ski-Gate-Panel_W0QQitemZ170458825848QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_O lympics_Fan_Shop?hash=item27b0234478) - $200+
** There are several of these replica panels that have sold and some still listed

Game Used USA vs Canada Gold Medal game hockey puck (OT used) (http://cgi.ebay.com/MENS-GOLD-MEDAL-Game-Used-Puck-CAN-vs-USA-OVERTIME_W0QQitemZ170460251148QQcmdZViewItemQQptZU S_Olympics_Fan_Shop?hash=item27b039040c) -- $8,500 +++ -- bidding still going
** This is NOT the puck used to score the winning goal, it says it in the auction description.

So, anyway, just a few examples....

I'm wondering because I'm thinking of trying to pick up an Olympic competition used item, but I'm afraid that it will quickly get out of my range where I can justify the expense. (I have a specific item in mind, but won't mention it to try to keep exposure down. haha)

-Brian

sugarpam
03-19-2010, 05:23 PM
The prices vancouver2010auction are getting are ridiculous. A Sidney Crosby game worn jersey (1 game) is already up to $10K with just under seven days LEFT.

They've been auctioning off REPLICA, NON-GAME USED pucks that have been consistantly going for $150-$280, and I'm pretty sure one of the earlier ones listed went for closer to (if not exceeding) $500. For a replica puck - the kind you see at stores for $5. Heck, I won a jersey from them and they threw one of these pucks in FOR FREE.

I've already posted that I won a game worn Canadian Women's hockey jersey, and I know I'll never get the money back if I ever chose to sell, but for me, a lot of factors contributed to me paying more. Favourite player; gold medal for the country; Olympics played in my home country; all of this made it easier to swallow the hefty price tag.

A couple of years ago I won a Sarah Vaillancourt game worn jersey from the World Championships for $250, and I recently won her 2010 Olympic jersey for $660, so a lot of people definitely put a premium on Olympic gear.

In short, yes, I agree, the prices the Olympic stuff is going for are insane :)

-Pam

skinsfan0521
03-19-2010, 06:23 PM
sugarpam - Yeah, what really got my attention was the replica autographed jerseys going for thousands of dollars and the pucks that were going for several hundred. I couldn't believe that people would actually pay that much for these items that have no real significance.

As for the hockey jersey you won, that may be more than her items usually go for, but it's still "only" $660. You may have overpaid by a couple hundred dollars (maybe 50%), but at least you didn't overpay thousands (a few hundred %). haha Plus, the fact that it was game worn and olympics in your home country and gold medal all adds to the value.

I'm thinking of buying a snowboarding item of one of my favorite snowboarders, but I'm not interested in even paying $600 like you did for your jersey. We'll see what happens. I hope that it says low enough so I can buy it or goes for waaaaay more than I'm willing to pay... That way I won't feel like I just missed the winning bid and regret it. If I don't win it and it goes for like $1k, then I'll be much happier.

soxfan
03-19-2010, 06:29 PM
There is a website that has the Official rights to auction 2010 competion signed as well as used items, but I am not sure if I can post it....

Moderators, can you let me know if I can post the site address without it being a violation of the rules? Or just mention the company name?

Thanks!

Jeremy
macleodjeremy@hotmail.com

skinsfan0521
03-19-2010, 06:31 PM
They have an official auction username on eBay, but in the listings it says that it's run by Gameday Auction.

Is that what you're referring to?

soxfan
03-19-2010, 06:37 PM
yeah that's the one.

Just read a post earlier about the forum rules and pormoting websites, etc...so I thought I would play it on the safe side.

I live in Vancouver and there is a lot of Olympic stuff that is floating around here.

Even at the Canucks games you can buy competition used/signed bids, jerseys and other stuff. Saw one a few weeks ago at the Olympic hockey game that was around $125 and was worn by a bobsleigh team.

Jeremy
macleodjeremy@hotmail.com

skinsfan0521
03-19-2010, 06:48 PM
Yeah, I can see event used items selling for a pretty big premium just because it's the Olympics and the fact that it's only once every 4 years, etc... it's the replica and autographed photos that really get me.

Why are people spending $300 for an autographed 8x10 of somebody who is still alive and will probably be doing signings for the rest of their lives because of the Olympic medal?? That's the part that I think is ridiculous.

Even that Crosby GU that sugarpam mentioned, I can understand more than somebody spending $700 on an auto'd 8x10 of an olympic skier. At least that jersey was used in the Olympics by a major superstar. The sports like mogul skiing, bobsledding, etc are such niche sports that I'd think there would be plenty of opportunities to get a MUCH cheaper auto in the coming year or so.

$700 is what people are spending for a Muhammad Ali auto'd 8x10. Think about that comparison...

Just my .02.

skinsfan0521
03-19-2010, 06:50 PM
Oh, and btw, I figured there was no problem posting the name of that company because I'm not promoting it or have any vested interest in it. Just saying who is in charge of the Olympic auctions. It's the same as mentioning eBay, Gray Flannel, Hunts, etc. As a matter of fact, I'm saying that people shouldn't be buying from them because the prices are getting ridiculous. That's the opposite of promoting it. hahaha

legaleagle92481
03-21-2010, 11:20 AM
i think it is the worst time to buy it. this is the first time olympic used stuff is hitting the market in quantity so the prices will be inflated. look at a few years ago when nfl gu jerseys first hit the market a kicker went for 3,500 dollars and john beck went for over seven grand and everything went for a mint. with time the supply increased and the novelty died and prices leveled off for non-megastars. with the olympics it will be the same thing although it will take a few more years since the olympics are biannual rather than every year. i am counting the summer and winter both as i know each only occurs once every four years. most of these athletes will be forgotten as well how many people can name even five gold medal winners from the 2006 games? there will be exceptions of course. jerseys worn by crosby this year will always be valuable assuming he continues his path toward hockey immortality. also mens basketball olympic jerseys will go for a mint and maintain their value due to the high interest in nba jerseys and their relative lack of availability on the market in general (even regular season jerseys for most teams and players are scarce except for the small number of teams in meigrays program) and the fact that alot of deep pocketed collectors collect nba stuff. and of course stuff worn by household names like phelps or ono will always be valuable. as far as autographs most olympians do not have much future value as they will be forgotten and the pro athletes in the games there will be many chances to get them to sign olympic pics in the future.

skinsfan0521
03-21-2010, 11:34 AM
legaleagle - I basically agree with all of what you said about the fact that it's a novelty is what's causing things to go for so high. Same with the autographs... that's what I was trying to say. I'm sure that the rest of these people's lives will be made by trying to make money off of their olympic successes, so there should be plenty of time to get autographs.

The item that I'm going after has a bit more meaning to me because of it being an athlete that I follow regularly (between olympics lol) and have some small personal connection/interaction with. Plus the fact that I feel that the event used items will hold their value relatively well, doesn't deter me as much as. The auto'd 8x10s, pucks and things like that I can't believe will hold any sort of value compared to what they've sold for so far. Not to mention that the item that I'm going for won't get anywhere near the $10k mark of the Crosby jersey. haha

skinsfan0521
03-27-2010, 06:38 PM
Obviously a ton of people aren't interested in this topic, but I just need to post the Crosby jersey auction. It ended yesterday and it ended for... ready for this.... $34,000!!! (crazy auction here (http://cgi.ebay.com/Team-Canada-Sidney-Crosby-Game-Worn-Jersey-CAN-vs-SUI_W0QQitemZ170460157329QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Oly mpics_Fan_Shop?hash=item27b0379591))

This is NOT the gold medal jersey, it's the jersey from when Canada played Switzerland in the 2nd game!! He did score the winning goal in a shootout, but it was only the 2nd game.

I just don't see how this is even close to reasonable. You could probably pay for a meet and greet with him and have him give you a full uniform from the Stanley Cup for that price! haha

Anyway, just needed to post that because of how crazy the price ended up getting!!

skinsfan0521
03-27-2010, 06:40 PM
Sorry for the 2nd post, but the game used puck from the OT period in the Gold medal game vs USA (not the winning puck) went for $12k + (here (http://cgi.ebay.com/MENS-GOLD-MEDAL-Game-Used-Puck-CAN-vs-USA-OVERTIME_W0QQitemZ170460251148QQcmdZViewItemQQptZU S_Olympics_Fan_Shop?hash=item27b039040c))

I must just be underestimating Canada's insane love for hockey... or these people are crazy and have tons of money. One or the other...

gingi79
03-27-2010, 07:04 PM
It's not just Canada. Sami Salo's one game worn jersey was at $1500 plus US as of yesterday. I could buy 3 full price jerseys worn for either every single home or away game for an entire NHL season plus any playoff games up to and including the Western Conference Finals for LESS than that. If I wait for the 50% off sale during the summer, I could own 7 shirts!

Also, the last time they were sold after the 2006 Olympics, it was $750 for a 2 game worn shirt. On the secondary market, it couldn't sell at $700 2 years ago.

The hobby of NHL shirts is just like the late 80's early 90's baseball card market. Part of the reason why Mickey Mantle's cards are worth so much is because everyone's mom threw them away. Sidney Crosby wears a conservative estimate of 15 shirts a season. If he plays 20 seasons, thats at least 300 jerseys. Add in All Star games, one game wonders, Olympics, WC, that's over 350 jerseys. How many Mario jerseys are there? They sell for $6,000. Sid's great but I'd take 6 MeiGray registered Lemieux's over a one game wonder Olympic Crosby every day.

skinsfan0521
03-27-2010, 07:28 PM
gingi79 - Thanks for the input. I completely agree with what you're saying about the saturation. And I completely understand the Crosby jersey going for more than reasonable because it's an Olympics jersey and he was the olympic hero (even if it wasn't in this jersey), but to me, $34k is just out of this world for a jersey that barely has any more significance than any other jersey.

I don't know... it just astonishes me that somebody would pay $34k for that jersey. I could even almost see some deep pockets bidding up to that much for the Gold Medal winning jersey, but for a jersey that was just used in the 2nd game in the Olympics, I don't see it.

ivo610
03-27-2010, 08:16 PM
I dont follow or collect hockey items but is there any hockey items that have gone close to these prices for game worn items?

skinsfan0521
03-27-2010, 09:36 PM
I dont follow or collect hockey items but is there any hockey items that have gone close to these prices for game worn items?
I don't know since I'm not a hockey collector either... but I've gotta imagine that if there are any hockey items that are sold for that much would be much older and most likely more "rare" (in the terms of mine and gingi79's definition).

Again, I'm just dumbfounded by the price for such a "common" item... but to each their own. I'm sure to whoever bought this, the $34k is like me spending $1k on something (decent amount, but not a crazy, ridiculous amount)

gingi79
03-27-2010, 11:47 PM
I dont follow or collect hockey items but is there any hockey items that have gone close to these prices for game worn items?


$34,000 is not unheard of but it is high. Looking strictly at Classic Auctions, here are some of the higher end players and their recent sales:

A Bobby Orr Bruins jersey from 1969/70 sold for $82k+
Photomatched jersey Bobby Orr wore when he won the 1972 Cup sold for $120k+.
A 1954 Gordie Howe with missing Emblem sold for $23k+
Gretzky Kings game worn sold for $18K+
Photomatched Gretzky Rookie jersey sold for $126k+
83/84 Gretzky game worn sold for $39k+

To put things in perspective:
Wayne Gretzky's 1981 Canada Cup jersey sold recently for $16,000.
Rookie Sidney Crosby sold for $23K
Most other Crosby's sell for between 5 and 10K.
A Photomatched Crosby worn in the two Stocolm opening games last season sold for $7k+ (this is also a SCF winning season which helps prices)

I think the real measuring stick would be a 1972 Summit Series jersey worn by Paul Henderson or Bobby Orr or Miracle on Ice 1980 USA Olympic jerseys of Jim Craig or Mike Eruzione. I cannot find any recent sales of these however. (Craig has his Russia and Gold Medal jerseys I believe and the Henderson is part of the HHOF collection as I saw it at the last MeiGray expo.) Speaking of which, Barry Meisel's opinion would be valid on this topic as well.

Now, in my somewhat informed but incredibly fanatic sports collectible point of view, a jersey worn during one game selling for $34,000 is excessive. However, a hockey Gold for Canada, played in Canada is the epitome of a perfect storm. Hell, I'd have loved the throwback Ryan Kesler Team USA jersey they wore when they beat Canada but those prices are nuts as well, $2K already.

Far be it for me to ever question a collectors purchase but anyone collecting this generations superstars for monetary gain is fooling themselves. Unless you have a jersey that changes the sport forever, you have what will amount to the 1989 Upper Deck Baseball set. Hot for a few years until everyone figures out that anyone who wants it, has it, as they were overproduced by millions

skinsfan0521
03-28-2010, 09:04 AM
Yeah, I expected to see some of the vintage/classic jerseys sell for that much, but I can't believe that anything "new" (within 10 years) has even come close.

Also, I completely agree that the hockey gold by Canada in Canada would drive up prices to crazy levels. The only difference is that I would expect to see that on the jersey he won the Gold medal in, a jersey he wore for several games, etc.... not just one game that has little meaning in the whole scheme of things. That's the part that I don't understand.

But, like you said, far be it for me to question another collector's purchase, because I'm sure many people would look at my collection and say "why??". haha But, again, I completely agree with your point about it being like 80's & 90's sports cards. Tons of jerseys out there and I don't see how this one is any more special than that 1989 Griffey RC -- looks great now, but in 10 years, you're going to be saying "wow... I overpaid by a LOT for this".

But as long as the collector is happy with what they paid, then that's all that matters.

skinsfan0521
03-29-2010, 02:21 PM
So, I was unsuccessful in my attempt to add an Olympic item to my collection. I was trying to win the competition worn bib from Hannah Teter's Silver medal snowboarding performance. My high bid was around $500 and it went for over $800. Was under $350 until 8 seconds left.... then, as usual, skyrocketed.

She had everything (ceremony worn stuff, shoes, clothes, jackets, socks, pins, etc) from the Olympics up for auction to raise money for her many charities. Her uniform (Jacket & snowpants) that she wore for the event went for over $2k, which was a bit surprising. I wasn't expecting that her stuff would go for quite so much, but I guess the whole Olympic thing pushed them up pretty high.

I would've really loved to get that bib, but I decided that if I paid more than $500 for it, every time I'd look at it on my wall, I'd say "why did I spend so much money for that? I shouldn't have."

Oh well...

sugarpam
03-29-2010, 04:56 PM
So, I was unsuccessful in my attempt to add an Olympic item to my collection. I was trying to win the competition worn bib from Hannah Teter's Silver medal snowboarding performance. My high bid was around $500 and it went for over $800. Was under $350 until 8 seconds left.... then, as usual, skyrocketed.

She had everything (ceremony worn stuff, shoes, clothes, jackets, socks, pins, etc) from the Olympics up for auction to raise money for her many charities. Her uniform (Jacket & snowpants) that she wore for the event went for over $2k, which was a bit surprising. I wasn't expecting that her stuff would go for quite so much, but I guess the whole Olympic thing pushed them up pretty high.

I would've really loved to get that bib, but I decided that if I paid more than $500 for it, every time I'd look at it on my wall, I'd say "why did I spend so much money for that? I shouldn't have."

Oh well...


Wow, another sign that these Olympic items are going for ridiculous prices! I can't believe a snowboarder's items went for so much, sorry you didn't get the bib you were looking for.

I was hoping the Olympics would be out of people's minds by now as VanOc eBay auctions listed a set of white Canadian Women's National Team jerseys. As I mentioned, I won Sarah Vaillancourt's red game worn jersey for $660, I just won her white game worn jersey for $950!!! I was hoping the white jerseys would sell for less this long after the games, not more.

But I didn't spend $34K, so I guess I got a good deal :)

-Pam

skinsfan0521
03-29-2010, 05:05 PM
Yeah, I didn't expect a female snowboarder's stuff to go for so much... especially since she "only" won the silver medal.

I think that part of the problem is that snowboarding just doesn't have any event used items out on the market. I'm sure there are a few things here and there, but I've never actually seen any others besides these things. That may have contributed to the prices, but who knows.

I was hoping that the bib at least wouldn't go for that much. I just couldn't see spending $900 on it.

legaleagle92481
03-30-2010, 12:24 AM
Basically, I've been watching some of the game/event used items on eBay being sold by the official Vancouver username and have been really surprised by how high some have gone. Some (most) seem completely insane to me, which is why I want your opinion.

Do you think they're crazy prices too, or is it just me? Do you think that these items will ever hold their value or is it just a hype factor that's driving the prices up this high right now?

Some examples:
Team Canada autographed souvenir stick. NOT game used (http://cgi.ebay.com/Team-Canada-Mens-Hockey-Signed-Wooden-Souvenir-Stick_W0QQitemZ170457941005QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_D efaultDomain_2?hash=item27b015c40d) -- $7k+

Game Used USA vs Canada Gold Medal game hockey puck (http://cgi.ebay.com/MENS-GOLD-MEDAL-Game-Used-Puck-CAN-vs-USA-2nd-period_W0QQitemZ170453314465QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_ DefaultDomain_2?hash=item27afcf2ba1) -- $5,900+
**Many other game used pucks from that game ranging from $3,600 - $5,500

Tons of autographed REPLICA Canada hockey jerseys of various players for well over $1k

8x10 auto of Canadian Gold Medal mogul skier (http://cgi.ebay.com/Canadian-Gold-Medalist-Alexandre-Bilodeau-Signed-8x10_W0QQitemZ170453659701QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_De faultDomain_2?hash=item27afd47035) -- $700
** Many other auto'd 8x10s of various athletes for $300+++

REPLICA panel from skiing mogul competition (http://cgi.ebay.com/Vancouver-2010-Replica-Competition-Ski-Gate-Panel_W0QQitemZ170458825848QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_O lympics_Fan_Shop?hash=item27b0234478) - $200+
** There are several of these replica panels that have sold and some still listed

Game Used USA vs Canada Gold Medal game hockey puck (OT used) (http://cgi.ebay.com/MENS-GOLD-MEDAL-Game-Used-Puck-CAN-vs-USA-OVERTIME_W0QQitemZ170460251148QQcmdZViewItemQQptZU S_Olympics_Fan_Shop?hash=item27b039040c) -- $8,500 +++ -- bidding still going
** This is NOT the puck used to score the winning goal, it says it in the auction description.

So, anyway, just a few examples....

I'm wondering because I'm thinking of trying to pick up an Olympic competition used item, but I'm afraid that it will quickly get out of my range where I can justify the expense. (I have a specific item in mind, but won't mention it to try to keep exposure down. haha)

-Brian

in my opinion the autographs are a horrible investment. in twenty years except for the male hockey players noone will remember who these athletes are. it is like buying reality tv star autographs although the olympics are obviously a much bigger achievement than being on jersey shore the end result is still the same they will fade from the memory. can anyone name five different gold medal winners from the 2002 games (not including hockey) without looking it up. and said male hockey players have enough signatures on the market to go around and will continue to add more and more throughout the course of their lives.

as for the event used stuff it is a novelty since this is the first time a large quantity of this stuff has hit the market in the same time period. when the novelty fades prices will level off. as for the crosby he is a great player when it is all said and done he will be top 10 alltime i predict and the pens are one of the few teams that do not have a contract with meigray so his stuff is relatively rare in any form.

gingi79
03-30-2010, 12:54 AM
in my opinion the autographs are a horrible investment. in twenty years except for the male hockey players noone will remember who these athletes are. it is like buying reality tv star autographs although the olympics are obviously a much bigger achievement than being on jersey shore the end result is still the same they will fade from the memory. can anyone name five different gold medal winners from the 2002 games (not including hockey) without looking it up. and said male hockey players have enough signatures on the market to go around and will continue to add more and more throughout the course of their lives.

as for the event used stuff it is a novelty since this is the first time a large quantity of this stuff has hit the market in the same time period. when the novelty fades prices will level off. as for the crosby he is a great player when it is all said and done he will be top 10 alltime i predict and the pens are one of the few teams that do not have a contract with meigray so his stuff is relatively rare in any form.

I agree with everything but the last comment. Not having a MeiGray contract means there is no accountability. He could be wearing 82 jerseys a year. The very few jerseys I have seen pictures of showed no wear. Sid plays all out and gets his ass handed to him in his helmet every night. So why are his game worns so clean? Now Joe Tomon handles their game worns and he is a truly honest dealer. Anything from him is real in my experience and he does get a nominal 3 sets of homes and aways. But the Pens have a history of "back door" jerseys going out from their original Equipment manager to the more recent guy who was the prior's protege. So there are 6 to 10 Tomon's and who knows how many one game wonders?


On a similar note, Alex Daigle was a hot shot "can't miss" prospect when the Ottawa Senators drafted him in the early 90's. Along with Alexi Yashin, they were supposed to be the next Gretzky and Messier. Neither lived up to their hype (unlike Sid and Malkin) but Daigle has said he wore a ton of jerseys, sometimes more than one a night! These sold for thousands when he was hot. You could get one now for $150 because honestly, their may be over 500 of them in the hobby.

Pavel Bure in the early 90's used to wear a ton of jerseys as well. He told an interviewer once that everyone from owner Frank Griffiths to the equipment manager to his best friend Gino Odjick would ask him to wear a jersey for a game and he would give them away as gifts. Makes me glad to see my Bure with a sleeve insert to protect his broken wrist and 3 repairs. Some Bure's I have seen are literally brand new looking. Maybe a mark on a sleeve. And they still sell today for $2k! In 1994, Bure's sold for $5k easily. So while he retained a value, it's only 40%. Not saying Bure and Crosby are the same player but in his prime, Bure was a lot like Ovechkin. And in VanCity, he was the Beatles.

Bottom line, I can only hope people who get the opportunity to spend $34k on a barely used shirt garners them the same sense of joy I get whenever I see my Bure. Otherwise, if their motive is future financial gain I think a very sad and disappointing road lays before them. It is a great moment in Canada sports, Sid is a bonafide superstar but it was worn in one Olympic game in the first round. I guess of Reebok would pay $10k for Sid's stick and gloves and sticks are usually 1/5th the price of jerseys, Sid's jersey from that game would be $50 to $100k (but since he is keeping it, we will never know for sure)

indyred
03-30-2010, 12:34 PM
Has anyone won one of these auctions? If so what is COA like and is their some type of hologram serial # on the item. Just looking at the game used Mens hockey pucks. If you pay 5-6 grand for a puck from one of those games. I would hope it has some iron clad authentication to it. From looks of auction pictures. You get puck in a plastic bad with game info on it. And a little paper cert. Does puck itself have some hologram on it?

skinsfan0521
03-30-2010, 01:03 PM
I'm not sure about the official Vancouver Olympics auctions, but I can tell you that the Hannah Teter stuff that I was interested in came with NO COA/LOA. Nothing at all. I tried to convince the seller (who was not Hannah herself) that I would bid more on an item if I could just get a simple LOA signed by Hannah, but never heard back.

The Teter stuff is definitely legit because she linked to the auctions from her Facebook page, mentioned it in interviews/news stories & Burton had a press release for it. But, as I told the seller of her stuff, I'd be much happier to spend more money on an item just to have the "insurance" of it having an LOA for the future. I completely believe 100% that the stuff was real, but an LOA is always nice.