Stampings on Louisville Sluggers from 1980-1983

[SkubeBats]

Hello,
I have been asking myself this question for sometime now and I would like to ask you all what you make of it. I have 3 game used bats from the time period of 1980-1983 BIG 125 Louisville Sluggers. As you can see that there is 3 different stampings found on them. You start with the top two bats and you notice that the Powerized stamping is angled downwards and the bottom bat's Powerized goes upwards. So that was 2 different stampings. Now here is the third stamping notice the the top bat and where the 125 is located in the midle circle. You see that the dot over the I in Louisville is under the 2 in the 125. Now look at the bottom two bats and the dot on the I in Louisville is between the 2 & 5. Why so many different types of stampings. Is there any way to tell if a bat is from certain year in the time period these stamping were used in 1980-1983. Can you tell if a bat is from say 1981 not 1982? I have many bats like these 3 with the different stampings. Lookfoward to seeing what you think....

[Birdbats]

Jamie, I have found bats pinpointed to specific seasons with the Powerized stamp running downhill in each of the four years of that era. So, IMO, you cannot date a bat from this era to a specific season based on the angle of the Powerized stamp alone. I'd guess the angle of the stamp simply varied by branding station.

The bat with the dot under the two is much more rare, apparently. As you know, I collect the 1982 Cardinals and have many bats from this label era. However, only one in my collection -- an Ozzie Smith pinpointed to records with a ship date of 10/5/82 -- has the dot under the two. The rest all have the dot between the two and the five. Never noticed that before tonight.

[Birdbats]

BTW, I have Ted Simmons bat envy. A Simmons with the 80-83 label is one of the voids in my Simmons bat collection. Nice.

[SkubeBats]

Jeff,
Thanks for the info on the stampings. To bad there isn't a better way to pinpoint the year on them. I have 4 other bats in my Brewers collection (Howell, Picciolo, Brouhard, and Thomas) that have the dot under the 2 in the 125. I just picked the Simmons bat up last week with 11 other 82 Brewers bats.

[Birdbats]

Then the Simmons is clearly an extra since you already had one, right? And it's available??? :)

C'mon... humor me.

[SkubeBats]

Sorry to say it's the only one like it that I have in my collection and the only one I have ever seen. It's just pounded with use!!

[joelsabi]

Jeff,
Thanks for the info on the stampings. To bad there isn't a better way to pinpoint the year on them. I have 4 other bats in my Brewers collection (Howell, Picciolo, Brouhard, and Thomas) that have the dot under the 2 in the 125. I just picked the Simmons bat up last week with 11 other 82 Brewers bats.



Is there any way to tell if a bat is from certain year in the time period these stamping were used in 1980-1983. Can you tell if a bat is from say 1981 not 1982?

I am learning about bats and here is my observation based on information online and this is just a hypothesis which can be developed or refuted with more bat examples and comparing factory records.

Years not on Brewers for said players mentioned above and Simmons from the photo.
Howell, 1980
Picciolo, 1980 and 1981
Simmons 1980

So the bat dot under 2 in the 125 cannot be 1980 or 1981 if there is a way to distinguish individual years from the 1980-1983 period.

I just wonder how fast was the transition from large label and large 125 (1980-1983 period) to small label and small 125 (1983-1985 period) as the 2 label periods overlap in 1983. Not all bat label periods overlap like in 1983.

http://webpages.charter.net/birdbats/Birdbats/Bat%20ID/LS%201980-Current.htm

I am thinking the hybird bats (large 125, small label) were rare since it was used as a transition brand, maybe experimenting with brand change in late 1982 or early 1983.

Seems like a question for Brian for the real answer. Different branding plates at different workstation sounds like a good possibilty as branding on blonde bats were burned on manually. The number and LVS name are on the same plate apparently so it could be slight variations of a plate used on different workstations as your dot under 2 bat is different than the hybrid bat in the chart.

Anyone else have examples in their collection of LVS hybrid bats?

[SkubeBats]

Mike or BMH any ideas on this one or does anyone else have any info about these stampings.

[momen55]

i have a cliff johnson from 82 and a julio cruz from 83 and both have the "i" between the 2 and 5, if that indicates anything. :confused:

[joelsabi]

i have a cliff johnson from 82 and a julio cruz from 83 and both have the "i" between the 2 and 5, if that indicates anything. :confused:

So both your bats have the large 125, small label?

Is the Cliff Johnson bat a Oakland or Toronto bat?

Is the Julio Cruz bat a Mariners or White Sox bat?

[momen55]

both are large labels.
correction; the johnson is from 83, cruz 82.
the cruz is a mariners bat. the johnson is a bluejays bat.

[woodbat]

Here are three photos of three large label LS bats:

1. Bobby Bonds signature model K75, dot is offset. This has to be a 1980 bat as his uniform number 00 is on the knob and 1980 was the only year he used that number.

2. Steve Mura block last name model C235, dot is under the 2. This is a Padres bat as the knob exhibits a 27 and that was his number 1980-1981. He came to StL in 1982 and wore 38. So this bat should date 1980-81.

3. Doug Bair block last name model K55, dot is offset. This bat could be from 1980 with Cincy or 1981-82 with StL. There is no uniform number on the knob or barrel. In StL he wore 43 in 1981 and 40 in 1982.

The "Powerized" on the Bonds and Bair slant down and up on the Mura. Doug Bair's bat has the 'R' after the K55 and the other two do not have the 'R'. The LS 'logo' is different on the Mura bat. As one example compare the 'gg' in slugger between the Bonds and Mura. Does that make the Mura a 1981?

So I have a Bonds StL bat, a Bair that I am not sure which date and a Mura that is a Padres bat. Have never seen a Mura with 38 uniform number on the knob/barrel, hence a Padres bat in my Cardinal collection.

Not sure if the above helps or hinders. Listed below are a few others(mostly Cardinal bats) hopefully from the 1980-83 time frame. Many of them I havn't pulled out in a while to verify. If you would like to see photos of any, will be glad to send.
Neil Allen-P89**Luis DeLeon-R161**Jeff Doyle-R161**Neil Fiala-M110**Bob Helsom-K55**Keith Hernandez-M159**Dane Iorg-B267**Jim Kaat-S207**Jeff Keener-S44**Tito Landrum-M159**Silvio Martinez-K48**Kelly Paris-B267**Jamie Quirk-R161**Floyd Rayford-R161**Bob Shirley-P72**Jose Uribe(Jose Gonzalez)-C243**

Thanks,
Don
woodbat@bellsouth.net
stlbats

[joelsabi]

Here are three photos of three large label LS bats:

1. Bobby Bonds signature model K75, dot is offset. This has to be a 1980 bat as his uniform number 00 is on the knob and 1980 was the only year he used that number.

2. Steve Mura block last name model C235, dot is under the 2. This is a Padres bat as the knob exhibits a 27 and that was his number 1980-1981. He came to StL in 1982 and wore 38. So this bat should date 1980-81.

3. Doug Bair block last name model K55, dot is offset. This bat could be from 1980 with Cincy or 1981-82 with StL. There is no uniform number on the knob or barrel. In StL he wore 43 in 1981 and 40 in 1982.

The "Powerized" on the Bonds and Bair slant down and up on the Mura. Doug Bair's bat has the 'R' after the K55 and the other two do not have the 'R'. The LS 'logo' is different on the Mura bat. As one example compare the 'gg' in slugger between the Bonds and Mura. Does that make the Mura a 1981?

So I have a Bonds StL bat, a Bair that I am not sure which date and a Mura that is a Padres bat. Have never seen a Mura with 38 uniform number on the knob/barrel, hence a Padres bat in my Cardinal collection.

Not sure if the above helps or hinders. Listed below are a few others(mostly Cardinal bats) hopefully from the 1980-83 time frame. Many of them I havn't pulled out in a while to verify. If you would like to see photos of any, will be glad to send.
Neil Allen-P89**Luis DeLeon-R161**Jeff Doyle-R161**Neil Fiala-M110**Bob Helsom-K55**Keith Hernandez-M159**Dane Iorg-B267**Jim Kaat-S207**Jeff Keener-S44**Tito Landrum-M159**Silvio Martinez-K48**Kelly Paris-B267**Jamie Quirk-R161**Floyd Rayford-R161**Bob Shirley-P72**Jose Uribe(Jose Gonzalez)-C243**

Thanks,
Don
woodbat@bellsouth.net
stlbats

Bat collectors,
I would appreciate more examples of bats used from 1980 to 1985, especially examples of #2 and #3 on the chart. I would like to know when these variations first showed up and whether the time period is short or long.

There are 4 different labels from Jamie's and Scott's photos. Two are very common center-brands and represent the label period based on the size of the ovals. The assumption is that the large label period (1980-1983) and the small label period (1983-1985) are true based on samples of bats which brought Scott to his conclusion. Don’s and Momen’s bat support the conclusion that #1 was used as early as 1980 and as late as 1983.

The rare center-brands look very similar to the common center-brands from each period with one minor change. On Label #2, the name font looks slightly smaller and when name was spaced and centered to the large oval, the dot seemed to shift to the left. Also as was pointed out with the Mura bat, the Slugger is space out more and you can see the top curve on the gg. Interesting too is the Mura example suggests that the #2 label bat was used for a longer time period as this bat is either a 1980 or 1981. Scott says that his 1982 Ozzie Smith is a #2 too so a Label #2 is not 1981 only.

On label #3, the size of the number changed and there is no "shift" of the dot as the name size did not change.

With enough examples, we can determine if #2 and #3 were used or not used for a short period of time. If they are used for a short period of time, then I suspect it was an experimental center brand. If it was used for a longer period of time like #1 and #4, then I would suspect that center-brand was a variation on a few workstations. So far, it looks like label #2 was used at least as early as 1981. More examples would make it clearer as to what is happening.

Would like any example of a label #3 (small label) especially if used in 1984 or 1985 if you have one.

Dave, since you have many bats from this period if you have any more bats that fit #2 (offset dot), can you try to determine the possible year it was used like you did with the Mura bat. Too bad the name of the team is not on the EB during this time period.

Jamie,
How do you know that the bats of Howell, Picciolo, and Simmons were used as Brewers? The bats do not have the team name on EB. These were non Brewer years during the large label period: Howell, 1980 Picciolo, 1980 and 1981 Simmons 1980. Are there any marking on the knob that give you any clues like Dave’s Mura bat.

Maybe Mike and BMH will break this question wide open for us and we can verify it with our examples.

[joelsabi]

Not sure if the above helps or hinders. Listed below are a few others(mostly Cardinal bats) hopefully from the 1980-83 time frame. Many of them I havn't pulled out in a while to verify. If you would like to see photos of any, will be glad to send.
Neil Allen-P89**Luis DeLeon-R161**Jeff Doyle-R161**Neil Fiala-M110**Bob Helsom-K55**Keith Hernandez-M159**Dane Iorg-B267**Jim Kaat-S207**Jeff Keener-S44**Tito Landrum-M159**Silvio Martinez-K48**Kelly Paris-B267**Jamie Quirk-R161**Floyd Rayford-R161**Bob Shirley-P72**Jose Uribe(Jose Gonzalez)-C243**

Thanks,
Don
woodbat@bellsouth.net
stlbats

Don, stick to the light colored bats which had the burning-on brand process at workstations. thanks.

[momen55]

look at the first example. the "OU" are wider, thus pushing the "i" to the right. obviously the dies must have been changed at some point, or something happened to cause this.

[joelsabi]

look at the first example. the "OU" are wider, thus pushing the "i" to the right. obviously the dies must have been changed at some point, or something happened to cause this.

Yes, I tried to resize the 4 photos on the chart to have the same relative size so there is a visual comparison.

The focus has been on large label with the longer oval so let's look at #1 and #2. The first example has a larger name (logo) font than the second example. That explains why you say the "OU" is wider on the first example. It a very small difference, maybe a .5 or 1 font size larger that on #2.

With the smaller font size for the name (LVS logo) on example two, there is a different spacing of the letters on the logo. In the second example. the Louisville looks longer. Also the spacing is more noticable for the "gg" in Slugger. So it's the smaller font size and the different spacing that was used for #2 that cause the new look.

I am going by a visual from photos provided. The other possibilty was that the change was not the logo font size but a change to very similar font type. For example, BatangChe Bold 18 pt and Batang Bold 18 pt looks very similar in look but notice the spacing difference(see below). Anyone know the font name for LVS branding?

The best photo is Jamie's three bats next to each other for comparison. Let me know if you notice anything else. Thanks.

I will update the chart when additional bat examples are provided. If you think it's more helpful to knock off examples #3 and #4 from the discussion, I can do that as well.

[woodbat]

Don, stick to the light colored bats which had the burning-on brand process at workstations. thanks.

Joel,
Will do on the bat color. Since you have expanded to 1985, I probably have some additions. Rather than clutter the site, I will send the photos directly to you. Will be the center brand/player name and either knob/barrel markings. This will take me a little time and I won't send all the photos at once. Then you can post what is pertinent to the subject.
LMK any different direction here.

Don
woodbat@bellsouth.net
stlbats

[joelsabi]

Joel,
Will do on the bat color. Since you have expanded to 1985, I probably have some additions. Rather than clutter the site, I will send the photos directly to you. Will be the center brand/player name and either knob/barrel markings. This will take me a little time and I won't send all the photos at once. Then you can post what is pertinent to the subject.
LMK any different direction here.

Don
woodbat@bellsouth.net
stlbats

Don,

Thanks for the photos. I found a third variation for the large labels. Your Jeff Doyle bat has a small 125.

Scott,
Is your Ozzie Smith bat similar to the Doyle or Mura bat?

Bat collectors,
Anyone else care to add to the sample? For now, I am going to ask for only large label bats to simplify the process. Thanks

Here is the update chart.

[Birdbats]

Is that Doyle bat really a large oval? Remember, the smaller oval and small 125 started being used in 1983. It would be a pretty noteworthy discovery to find the 4.5" oval with the small 125.

[joelsabi]

Is that Doyle bat really a large oval? Remember, the smaller oval and small 125 started being used in 1983. It would be a pretty noteworthy discovery to find the 4.5" oval with the small 125.

I will let Don verify your question here. Either way, large or small label, it is a new variant.

How certain is the small label period (1983-1985)? How large was the sample to get your information?

[Birdbats]

1983 variants are very well documented in both Malta books and in the MastroNet/Bushing guide. There's the 80-83 large oval (4.5")/large 125... the large 125/small (3.75") oval... and the small 125/small oval that carried through the '85 season (and likely into early '86).

[joelsabi]

1983 variants are very well documented in both Malta books and in the MastroNet/Bushing guide. There's the 80-83 large oval (4.5")/large 125... the large 125/small (3.75") oval... and the small 125/small oval that carried through the '85 season (and likely into early '86).

Thanks. I found a Dusty Baker bat that was described from 1983-1986.

I need to purchase a book.

[joelsabi]

Doyle bat photo unedited.

[Birdbats]

Not exactly scientific, but I just measured the Doyle centerbrand width and Powerized from the photos on my monitor and compared that to the Powerized on a couple '83-'85 bats. Calculating for X (the centerbrand width of the actual Doyle bat), I came up with about 4". The small oval is actually about 3 7/8"... the large oval from '80-'83 is 4.5"... so allowing for monitor distortion, I'd guess the Doyle's centerbrand is the small oval. Can you confirm, Don?

[joelsabi]

Don,

A photo of your Doyle, Fiola, Mora and Stuper with CB side to side would be helpful.

[joelsabi]

Not exactly scientific, but I just measured the Doyle centerbrand width and Powerized from the photos on my monitor and compared that to the Powerized on a couple '83-'85 bats. Calculating for X (the centerbrand width of the actual Doyle bat), I came up with about 4". The small oval is actually about 3 7/8"... the large oval from '80-'83 is 4.5"... so allowing for monitor distortion, I'd guess the Doyle's centerbrand is the small oval. Can you confirm, Don?

I just received an email from Don saying that the Doyle bat is a small oval as he mistakenly told me it was a large label since he sent me photos of both types.