American Memorabilia Bo Jackson bat

[byergo]

The current Bo Jackson All Star game bat auction at American Memorabilia is not legit. I own the bat Bo used for both the All Star game and the Home Run Derby as well.

My authentic bat is NOT smoke damaged, doesn't have blue transfer marks but does have correct PINK transfer marks (as the All Star game ball from 1989 has pink ink), has the correct pine tar application and has been photo matched by several different pics and DVD video footage as well. The bat also has a very deep baseball stitch imprint from the massive force of Bo crushing the ball when he his the 1st inning 448 foot homerun.

The 1989 All Star MVP Bo Jackson bat is the finest item in my collection, and is NOT for sale!

I am a happy American Memorabilia customer having bought and sold with them multiple times, and I have notified them via email of this problem.

[Eric]

I'd love to see pics of your Bo Jackson bat- sounds amazing
Eric

[sylbry]

Does the 1989 Bo All Star Bat have "Louisville Slugger" in big letters on the backside of the barrell of the bat? Just wondering for my own sake.

[byergo]

Eric,
I'm scared to post detailed pics of the bat that might encourage additional fakes! I have matched the bat to a Score baseball card, an autographed 8x10 photo of Bo at the 1989 All Star game, an AP press/wire photo, internet digital photo of Bo using the bat, and DVD footage.

[byergo]

sylbry,
The reverse of the bat has "LOUISVILLE" in very large black block letters, but not "LOUISVILLE SLUGGER."

Apparently a number of replica's were made with the "LOUISVILLE" block letters, but they were the INCORRECT bat model number, which would make it difficult to fake.

[byergo]

I'd like to see how you get a blue transfer mark from this baseball?:
971

Looks like John Taube and Vince Malta need to do some homework!

[CollectGU]

Have you tried contacing John or Vince at PSA bats? I think that would be the most efficient way to get a response...

[BULBUS]

What's with the smoke damage? The Mattingly bat also says it has smoke damage.

[CollectGU]

This is just a guess, bbut they probably have been hung in a sports bar at one time

[Yankwood]

What's with the smoke damage? The Mattingly bat also says it has smoke damage.I was wondering about the same thing. I have seen a few bats with Grey Flannel which are referred to as "smoke damaged". I think one was a George Brett and also a Robin Yount. Must have been one hell of a fire.:eek:

[byergo]

If anyone from PSA bats desires to contact me my contact info is:

Scott Byergo
scottbyergo@lycos.com
573-639-1134, cell

[byergo]

Point blank: my bat is genuine, the American Memorabilia bat is a bad and obvious fake. You can't get a blue transfer mark from an All Star game ball which has exclusively pink ink, and ZERO blue ink!

[trsent]

Impossible? Doesn't it take blue ink to make red ink? I am not good at my colour chart. No? Ok, then maybe, ummmm, maybe he was bored and drew blue marks on the bat in the dugout after he was pulled from the game? No? Ok, then maybe, ummmm.

[Yankwood]

Call 'em out Byergo! Give 'em hell.

[CollectGU]

Byergo,

Call John or Vince to see why and how they authenticated - they are not going to call you.....Also, could this could have been used during BP....?

[suave1477]

Byergo I have to play devils advocate on this one but I do agree with CollectGU. First of all PSA/DNA is not going to call you, you have to call them.

Is it possible the bat they have might be a Batting Practice bat?

If not give them hell!!! But find out first!!!

[Yankwood]

You know what I think? I think this whole "batting practice means game used" crap we're hearing all the time now is exactly that. I guess if they state in very small print somewhere that "batting practice constitutes game use" that that covers some of these claims but it's still very deceptive to me. You know what. It's just as easy to write "batting practice bat" as it is to write, "game used, and game use can also mean batting practice". I know because I just typed them both and the first one was actually easier. Sorry to vent.

[CollectGU]

I agree with you, but they all do it, including steiner on their game used bats....

[byergo]

As Vince works with PSA/DNA and is listed as an expert on this web site, I used the Game Used Universe "Ask This Expert" function for him to read this thread and join the discussion. The American Memorabilia web site lists the COA as: "PSA Bats/John Taube And Vince Malta."

The exact message I sent is below:

------------------------------------------------------------------
Vince,
I own the real Bo Jackson game used 1989 All Star bat. The one PSA/DNA authenticated for the current American Memorabilia auction is not legit. Please refer to the following URL to join the discussion on the Game Used Universe Forum regarding this bat:

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=3382

I can see that you are listed as a game used expert in the Game Used Universe "Experts Corner" and you also work with PSA/DNA. I'd love to hear your thoughts regarding this issue.

Best Regards,
Scott Byergo
scottbyergo@lycos.com
573-639-1134, cell

[byergo]

email auto response:
---------------------------------------------
Dear Scott Byergo,

Thank you for submtting a question to Vince Malta. We will send an email notification to you when your question is answered.

All the best,

Game Used Universe www.gameuseduniverse.com (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/../)

[suave1477]

Yankwood I agree with you but your looking at i the wrong way as far a why they are putting game used instead of it just being just as easy to write Batting Practice. The ANSWER IS. They don't want too!!! Its called marketing and more items will sell if you list it as Game Used than Batting Practice.That's a fact!!!

Think about it would you rather list 10 items called Batting Practice - and Sell 2.

OR

List 10 Items as Game Used - Sell 8 and debate with 2 buyers about it being Batting Practice.

[byergo]

If the bat was used in batting practice and PSA/DNA says in their opinion that is THE game used Bo bat it is weak beyond all imagination! Frankly it pisses me off!

I shouldn't have to defend the integrity of my bat because the "industry standard" authenticator and auction house are too lazy or incompetent to conduct an adequate thorough investigation of the item prior to authentication.

[sylbry]

Would the pink all star balls have been used in batting practice also? Just a thought.

[byergo]

From the American Memorabilia auction description:

1989 Bo Jackson All-Star Game-Used Bat (MVP)

By now we all know Bo. It's difficult enough to play one professional sport but to excel in two shows unbelievable versatility. Bo Jackson was invited to showcase his gift in the 1989 All-Star Game. Jackson set the flow of the game with a monstrous home run, stolen bases and remarkable catches. The superstar heartily earned the MVP award for his crowd mesmerizing play. Jackson used this mighty Louisville Slugger (model J93) during the 1989 All-Star Game. The bat measures 34 1/4” and weighs 34.1 ounces. It shows excellent use with hit marks on the barrel, blue ball transfer marks and rack marks. For quick identification,"Bo" is marked on the knob and end of the barrel in black felt tip pen. Also to note, this bat exhibits smoke damage on the handle.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Problems:
1. The pine tar is incorrect
2. Blue transfer marks are WRONG, not even a POSSIBLE color for a legit 89 All Star game as I depicted with a picture of the official game ball

3. The real bat isn't smoke damaged, because I OWN it!
4. The authentic bat has "Bo" written on NEITHER the barrel or knob ends
5. Does this bat even have "LOUISVILLE" on the back side? We can't see a pic of the reverse

[JimCaravello]

I would suggest calling John Taube directly at his office to discuss the bats in question. If Vince is anything like me, I typically find out 10 days later that I have an e-mail on the GUU system.

John's website and contact info just in case you don't have is:

www.gameusedbats.com (http://www.gameusedbats.com)

Jim - jcaravello@nc.rr.com

[byergo]

Just emailed John Taube at: info@gameusedbats.com to invite him to this discussion. It would be nice to hear from both of them...

[b.heagy]

Without reading the LOA it is tough to determine who is at fault. PSA Bats - John and Vince authenticate a bat as game used (per auction listing) - consignor says or was lead to beleive that the bat was used in the all star game, auction house goes by what they are told and we have this situation. I would really like to read the LOA on this one. I dont know either way how the description came to be but this is an interesting thread.

Bill

[byergo]

I recieved a quick follow up from John Taube. Case closed!

----------------------------------------------------------------

Scott,

American Memorabilia is revising their write up. It should be online
tomorrow. The bat is Bo Jackson's 1989 All Star Game bat. Two bats
were shipped to Bo on 7/6/89. Based on the documention you have, your
bat was Bo's ASG gamer. The bat in American Memorabilia's auction was
used in BP or after the ASG. We authenticated the bat as being an All
Star Game bat that was used by Jackson. We did not make any claims as
to use in the All Star Game.

Thanks for the email. If you have other questions, or require
additional information, please don't hesitate to contact me.

John Taube
PSA/DNA Pro Bat
Authentication Services


John Taube (gameusedbats.com)
e-mail: jtsports@digitalfm.com (http://mymail01.mail.lycos.com/scripts/mail/compose.mail?compose=1&.ob=a2f0a63dbaaf1e3a5a2ee144b0ee1f72190eb60b&composeto=jtsports%40digitalfm.com)

[trsent]

I also called American today and was told they have had the bat reevaluated and the auction will be updated in the next day. There appears to be red marks on the bat, let's wait for the auction update on the American Memorabilia web site to see.

Great work guys, this forum does work!

[byergo]

One last statement of facts and commentary surrounding this issue. The party that I bought the actual Bo Jackson 1989 All Star gamer bat from on ebay (zanebats), ran a subsequent auction for another bat which was similar in production and markings but displayed absolutely ZERO signs of game use. According to PSA/DNA this had to be the only other "game issued" bat (as they clearly state two were produced by Louisville Slugger and sent to Mr. Jackson), and again it was sold with no game use what so ever, and clearly sold as game issued only. I am 100% certain this is correct because I was in fact an underbidder on this 2nd bat, as I wanted to "lock them both up" in order to prevent this sort of disaster from occuring. Perhaps Zane would care to enter the discussion?

This means that if Taube and Malta are correct that only two bats were produced and sent to Bo, and we all know that mine is 100% without question the real game bat used in both the All Star game and Home Run Derby per multiple photo and video evidence; and then the other UNUSED bat was sold on ebay with NO signs of use, NO pine tar, No ball marks, no smoke damage, No red/pink marks were noted until I brought it up, etc...

What can we conclude about the "game use" that now magically appears on the FAKE bat that was recently sold without any game use (17 years after the game was played in Anaheim)? Again with "Bo" incorrectly written on both the handle and knob, incorrect pine tar which anyone can see with a quick Internet search, smoke damage that wasn't there a short while ago, incorrect blue ball transfer marks that aren't even possible for a legit Bo All Star gamer, etc...?

I'm not looking to be a whistleblower or a jerk, but the simple fact is that I own the real bat, it's the centerpiece of my collection, my pride and joy; and I won't just sit back and watch it's value and historical significance destroyed without fiercely fighting back!

One last comment: I noticed that "Hockystik" (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/member.php?u=478) at Game Used Universe has had a Bo Jackson AS bat with the large LOUISVILLE logo listed on his web site which you can access from
http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=106&page=2:
http://www.geocities.com/hockystik/bats_page4.html
Jackson, Bo #16 large Louisville label 86-89 $600.00

I've been wondering if this was the source for the fake American Memorablia bat, or just one of the reproduction bats which was produced with the incorrect model number.?

[byergo]

BTW--I have no axe to grind here. I have always thought highly of PSA/DNA authentication and prefer to buy authenticated items, and I've been very happy when both buying and selling with American Memorabilia, and plan to continue doing so. They have brought top dollar, shipped payments and products quickly and carefully packaged, and been great to deal with on the phone and via email.

[byergo]

I sent a message to Zane to see if he would be willing to add his comments to this thread.

[CollectGU]

They amended their statement - what more is there to talk about.

I think that I and others would be interested in seeing the distinguishing marks or characteristics that you positively photo matched to your bat to make a detrmination if your bat is in fact a photo match or a photo style match. Could you post for us? Just to play devil's advocate, how do we know that yours is the proper bat without a proper photo evidence?

[trsent]

They amended their statement - what more is there to talk about.

I think that I and others would be interested in seeing the distinguishing marks or characteristics that you positively photo matched to your bat to make a detrmination if your bat is in fact a photo match or a photo style match. Could you post for us? Just to play devil's advocate, how do we know that yours is the proper bat without a proper photo evidence?

Good post, I couldn't have said it better myself.

[byergo]

CollectGU,
As I stated earlier, I will not post detailed pics of my bat because circumstances such as the fake American Memorabilia bat prove that fraud is rampant in this hobby, and there are obvious shortcomings in the professional authentication process.

I'll throw you a bone however. 1st pic is the fake American Memorabilia bat with smoke damage, note the incorrect pine tar application when you compare it to Bo's real gamer (which I own) being used in the All Star Game (hard KC Royals batting helmet) and Home Run Derby (soft KC Royals baseball cap).

975

976

977

Each of these pics are available on the Internet if you conduct a search, so nothing proprietary here that only I have access to. The authenticators could have done the work to find this, and so could have the auction house.

If we can believe that PSA/DNA knows what they are talking about that Louisville Slugger records indicate that only two Bo All Star game bats were produced and shipped to bat. Zane Burns (zanebats on EBAY) sold me the game used bat, which is legit and has not been disturbed, then he subsequently sold the other bat with no game use what so ever, we have a lot to talk about actually.

I'm not interested in the other bats from "Mr. Smoke Damage" in the American Memorabilia auction, but I would look on any other items he is selling with a great deal of scrutiny and suspicion.

[byergo]

The pic from the all star game also doesn't show "Bo" written on the knob.

[CollectGU]

Byergo,

Do you have evidence in terms of a distinguishing mark on your bat that conclusively matches the bat a mark you can see in a photo - if not, you don't have a photo match...if you do, post it or else we cannot say for sure you've photo matched your bat....What is someone going to do wityh the photos, doctor up a Bo bat, no offense but they just don't command the kind of value where it makes it worth it to do that. You are talking about a $500 -600 bat...

[CollectGU]

He did hit a homer, so to be fair, I would have to adjust the value up to $800- $1,000....

[byergo]

CollectGU (http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/member.php?u=538),
If you can't see from the pics I just spoon fed you that that bat isn't legit you are not very intelligent, and I don't respect you as a game used expert PERIOD. I would never buy from you or seek your "professional" opinion.

Also, the bat is worth FAR in excess of $500 to $600 because I own it and it isn't for sale. If I were to offer it for sale the reserve price would be dramatically higher than that. This is a historic bat. One of the legendary home runs in All Star game history, and arguably the biggest single moment in Bo Jackson's career. And that's saying a lot considering he was the biggest star in both the NFL and MLB for a time, and also won a Heisman. Also arguably the greatest athlete of all time in sports history.

[trsent]

So, what do you want done next?

Maybe you should call the Las Vegas Police and have them investigate.

Or maybe instead of insulting users of the forum you should understand that AMI changed their description because of information they found along with their authenticators. That wasn't good enough for you, so now you have to take the next step which isn't to insult someone for making the point that you keep going on and on about it because you are still not happy.

If you have the only real one, you were called out to provide photographic evidence and you refused, so what do you want now for the industry to make it better?

By the way, I agree, Bo Jackson was the most inspiring player I ever saw in person. I never saw him play football live, but for baseball, his presence on the field was like that of no one I have seen before or after. Even after the hip replacement, he was still Bo.

This said, it comes to the point that you believe you have the only bat he used in the game, and AMI and their authenticators feel they have a bat that he also used for the All-Star festivities. Instead of going on and on about it, your point has been made, but now if you really care that much move it off the forum and find the next step. It may be legal, if you are 100% sure, but you have taken it to a dead end on this forum.

[suave1477]

I hate to say as much as it is killing me but i do agree with others. Byergo there is no need for you to insult other members of this forum bcuz they have a legit question your the one to refuse proof of a pic is what you say you have. At the same time your beating a dead horse you keep complaining over and over and over what you have is real and theres is fake. WHAT DO YOU WANT US TO DO? or what are you looking to get out of us?
Do you want us all to meet after work today, form a mob with torches and head to vegas?
I tried that once but they wouldnt let us on the plane with torches ( THEY SAID SECURITY REASONS) after that I didnt want to get on the plane with my mob it didnt look cool to have sticks on a plane and there not on fire. lol lol:D :D

[jon_8_us]

I couldn't agree more with trsent!This insulting of fellow members is childish.And the fact you will provide no pictures to prove your story,and the fact your questioning some of the best minds in the hobby i would take a step back here if i were you.You have created a very eye opening and serious discussion here.Resorting to childish insults and behavior lends you no credibility with me and many other members i'm sure.Lets see some pics once and for all and close this discussion....
jon

[b.heagy]

Description for the bat has been revised.

"By now, we all know Bo. It’s difficult enough to play one professional sport, but to excel in two, shows unbelievable versatility. Bo Jackson was invited to showcase his gift in the 1989 All-Star Game. Jackson set the flow of the game with a monstrous home run, stolen bases and remarkable catches. The superstar heartily earned the MVP award for his crowd mesmerizing play. This Louisville Slugger (model J93) is one of two bats that were shipped to Bo on July 6, 1989 for the All-Star Game. The bats are immediately identifiable because of the large stamping of “Louisville” on the back barrel. 1989 was the only year Louisville Slugger incorporated this type of labeling on All-Star game bats. This barrel stamping was repeated for 1989 World Series bats. The bat measures 341/4” and weighs 33.8 ounces and displays outstanding use. Clearly visible on the barrel are blue and several red ball marks. Please note that the balls used in the ’89 All-Star Game were stamped with red ink. The bat is uncracked and has excellent player characteristics which include “Bo” on both ends in black marker as well as a familiar pine tar application to the upper handle. The consignor had a fire at his residence and there is noticeable smoke staining to the barrel. We are revising the writeup on the bat because its authenticity has been questioned by the owner of the second All-Star bat, who indicates that he has photo documentation of Jackson using his bat. While we make no claim that this bat was game used by Jackson during the 1989 Mid Summer Classic, we cannot overlook the red ball marks appearing on the barrel. The bat is authentic in every respect and it is our opinion it was used by Jackson at least during batting practice and in all probability during the second half of the season. This bat represents one of the highlight moments of one of baseball's and football's top phenomenons."

Bill

[byergo]

I will never post detailed pics of the bat on the Internet which would all but guarantee future counterfeit attempts. I live in Columbia, MO and would be happy to allow anyone to view the bat and corresponding photo and DVD video evidence I have at my home (let me know a few days in advance as I would need to get the bat out of the bank save deposit box). Furthermore if you travel and happen to go the the Kansas City or St. Louis international airports, I would be happy to meet you and show you the bat and pics, as I live exactly half way between those two major airports.

I apologize for the childish response to Jim, but I am pretty worked up over this issue. And frankly the "best minds in the hobby" only have a slightly better educated guess than the educated/advanced game used collector. Although I can understand why you'd like for me to post the pics, I'm sure you can respect why I'm unwilling to do that, particularly regarding the current circumstance. I have to hold a few aces in my hand to debunk the next counterfeit, should it arise. I was however willing to post enough photographic evidence to in my mind easily demonstrate how the bat in question was NOT used in the 1989 All Star Game or Home Run Derby.

[trsent]

Great, so this discussion is finished?

[b.heagy]

"The bat is authentic in every respect and it is our opinion it was used by Jackson at least during batting practice and in all probability during the second half of the season." As stated in the tail end of the revised description.

Bill

[montemac]

How about these 2 I own? They are both 34 inches long and show no use.

[suave1477]

whats your question?

You have 2 bats with no use!!!

[montemac]

I guess my point is I thought there were only 2 made ....

[byergo]

montemac, thanks for posting. Hopefully 4 were made by Louisville Slugger and they are all accounted for at this point. The possibility of unused LS Bo All Star gamers existing is why I refused to post detailed pics of my bat, and the corresponding photo/video matches. Looks like my paranoia was well founded! :-)

PSA/DNA (Taube/Malta) said in the LOA that 2 1989 All Star Bo Jackson bats were produced, but this is obviously incorrect. Perhaps the LS shipping records PSA/DNA have access to were wrong?

I think this entire experience has been eye opening, and hopefully everyone can move forward now.

[hblakewolf]

I can't read anymore of this thread!

A compnay by the name of Anaconda Kaye (sp?) sold the exact same bats in 1989/90. Big letter LOUISVILLE on the side, Powerized, etc. There are quite a few more than 4 of the Bo bats floating around.

FYI

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@patmedia.net


montemac, thanks for posting. Hopefully 4 were made by Louisville Slugger and they are all accounted for at this point. The possibility of unused LS Bo All Star gamers existing is why I refused to post detailed pics of my bat, and the corresponding photo/video matches. Looks like my paranoia was well founded! :-)

PSA/DNA (Taube/Malta) said in the LOA that 2 1989 All Star Bo Jackson bats were produced, but this is obviously incorrect. Perhaps the LS shipping records PSA/DNA have access to were wrong?

I think this entire experience has been eye opening, and hopefully everyone can move forward now.

[eGameUsed]

I have to agree with Howard! I have personally seen a handful of those Bo Jackson 1989 Large "LOUISVILLE" slugger bats. I can't vouch for the length and weight, but there are a lot out there. Byergo, if you have THE bat, showing a picture won't open the door for fraud. It would be impossible to duplicate "authentic" use. Also, as a side note, I have a couple of Astros bats from 2005 that have gold and blue ball marks on them. Many players use bats for more than one game or even series. Craig Biggio uses bats during BP to determine a good "feel" for game use.

[trsent]

Do I see a pattern here with American Memorabilia and Bo Jackson items being questioned?

[byergo]

According to MSpecht in the following thread:

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=1543&highlight=jackson

"Re: Bo Jackson 1989 All Star bat(s) Hi--

I do not have Bo Jackson's individual factory records, however in reviewing records of other 1989 All-Stars, it appears that each player received two bats for the 1989 All Star Game from H & B. As you correctly state, the jumbo LOUISVILLE lettering appears on the back of the barrel of authentic pro individual 1989 All Star and post season bats. Unfortunately, the jumbo LOUISVILLE also appears on Bo Jackson B310 and Rickey Henderson T141 bats that H & B sold to Anaconda-Kaye Sports, Inc. that Anaconda-Kaye then offered to the public.

Good Luck in future collecting.

Mike"
-------------------------------------------------------------------
So it looks like hopefully just four Bo Jackson 1989 All Star J93 bats were produced with mine being the gamer/HR derby bat, the other one used during BP only and then later during the regular season, and two more displaying zero use. The B310 models sold to Anaconda-Kaye were the incorrect model number which is a "good thing!"

End of story?...

[sportscentury]

whats your question?

You have 2 bats with no use!!!

Jason,

You really baffle me with some of your posts. Are you saying that because the bats have no use, then they cannot be game issued. Clearly, there must have existed some large-label LOUISVILLE bats that were game issued but never used.

Reid

[therealaxis]

Hey Scott I also have a Bo bat that shows significant game use and from very credible seller.I am extremely interested in seeing with out a doubt proof that you have the home run bad.Your photo evidence was far from convincing in my humble opinion.I am in no way calling you a liar I am just trying to get to the bottom of this just like you are.If you don't feel like posting photos on here why don't we both send our bats to john and at least get an official answer.

[kcrhino]

well, look what's back....same write up as original....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320838301617&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123