o/t Charles Woodson voted Defensive Player of the Year

[legaleagle92481]

I think this is absurd while Woodson had an amazing year, Revis was by far the best corner in the NFL this season and without him the Jets would never have gotten near the playoffs. His shutdown ability is the number one reason that the Jets had the NFL's top rated defense. Week after week he shut down some of the best receivers in the league most of whom are pro bowl regulars. Here are the names: Andre Johnson, Terrell Owens (twice), Randy Moss (twice), Reggie Wayne, Chad Ochocinco (twice with one coming in the playoffs), Roddy White, Steve Smith (Panthers), Marques Colston, Antonio Bryant. He gave up zero 100 yard games and if I am correct zero even 80 yard games and two touchdowns all year one of which was an impossible to defend Brady to Moss short pass into the end zone. I know the voting was done before then but Woodson gave up that many TDs in Sunday's game verus the Cards alone. Yet Woodson gets DOUBLE the amount of votes Revis gets, the national media gives the Jets and their players no respect and as a Jets fan I find it disappointing.

[jhunt28]

Ditto...People will argue that Woodson had more tackles and INT's, which is garbage. No one in this league is more feared than Revis at corner. Below is a nice illustration of his work this year.

29218

[jhunt28]

ugh...i suck at posting pics...either too big or too small

[JasonBanz]

Revis may be a shutdown corner, but he was ranked 51st out of all defensive backs in the league. 54 combined tackles with no sacks. 6 interceptions, with one returned for a touchdown. Zero forced fumbles. He also let the terrible Ted Ginn Jr. burn past him for a 53 yard TD pass on MNF:eek: . Charles Woodson had 74 tackles and 2 sacks. 9 interceptions with 3 returned for touchdowns. 4 forced fumbles with 1 recovered. The only thing Revis beat him with was 37 passes defended compared to Woodson's 27.

[JasonBanz]

Let me correct myself, he was not the 51st Defensive Back in the league, he was the 51st Defensive Back in the AFC. I think Woodson deserved it more than Revis. Sorry for the mistake! ;)

[jhunt28]

I'm sure this can be argued either way...personally, I think Revis was the best defender in the NFL this year. I'm also a bit partial being a huge Jets fan. He definitely dropped 3-4 easy INT's this year, so maybe that would have sealed the deal for him? In the larger scope, Woodson is on his way out, and Revis is on his way up. This may be a fairwell to Charles...Revis has plenty of years ahead of him to scoop up a few DPOTY Awards.

[JasonBanz]

Revis is a great corner, which scares me to death considering we face him twice a year.

[halzeus]

Revis is a great cornerback, but Woodson had a better year overall defensively.

[legaleagle92481]

Revis may be a shutdown corner, but he was ranked 51st out of all defensive backs in the league. 54 combined tackles with no sacks. 6 interceptions, with one returned for a touchdown. Zero forced fumbles. He also let the terrible Ted Ginn Jr. burn past him for a 53 yard TD pass on MNF:eek: . Charles Woodson had 74 tackles and 2 sacks. 9 interceptions with 3 returned for touchdowns. 4 forced fumbles with 1 recovered. The only thing Revis beat him with was 37 passes defended compared to Woodson's 27.

What is this ranking based on? And who created it? Safeties are also defensive backs, how do you compare them with corners, when they have a different role? What is Woodson's ranking in the NFC under this system? Revis and Woodson play different roles Revis is not used to blitz and hence will not accumulate sacks. He is used almost exclusively in one on one matchups against the opponent's top receiver. He does not have as many tackles because the receivers he covers do not catch the ball often and he is not used as a run stuffing corner. He did drop a few INTs but so does every corner and he has less chances for them then most corners because the quarterback is avoiding his side of the field and INTs do not make a great corner. Asante Samuel has I believe 9 ints but he gets them by trying to jump routes and as a result he gets burned for big plays alot. Deltha O'Neal was the same way in the past. I am willing to wager that QBs threw to the receiver being covered by Woodson more, completed more passes for more yards to them than they threw to the ones covered by Revis and that Woodson allowed more big plays especially TDs.

[JasonBanz]

What is this ranking based on? And who created it? Safeties are also defensive backs, how do you compare them with corners, when they have a different role? What is Woodson's ranking in the NFC under this system? Revis and Woodson play different roles Revis is not used to blitz and hence will not accumulate sacks. He is used almost exclusively in one on one matchups against the opponent's top receiver. He does not have as many tackles because the receivers he covers do not catch the ball often and he is not used as a run stuffing corner. He did drop a few INTs but so does every corner and he has less chances for them then most corners because the quarterback is avoiding his side of the field and INTs do not make a great corner. Asante Samuel has I believe 9 ints but he gets them by trying to jump routes and as a result he gets burned for big plays alot. Deltha O'Neal was the same way in the past. I am willing to wager that QBs threw to the receiver being covered by Woodson more, completed more passes for more yards to them than they threw to the ones covered by Revis and that Woodson allowed more big plays especially TDs.

nfl.com

[legaleagle92481]

nfl.com

This "ranking system" only takes into account stats: tackles, sacks, fumbles (forced, recoverd), interceptions , safeties, passes defensed and Tds scored. According to it Tyvon Branch is the AFC's top DB. For corners stats do not tell the story. I do notice though that two Dolphins are in the top ten so I am not surprised that you cited it.

[JasonBanz]

This "ranking system" only takes into account stats: tackles, sacks, fumbles (forced, recoverd), interceptions , safeties, passes defensed and Tds scored. According to it Tyvon Branch is the AFC's top DB. For corners stats do not tell the story. I do notice though that two Dolphins are in the top ten so I am not surprised that you cited it.

Had nothing to do with 2 Dolphins being on it. But those stats are things that the NFL looks at. I'm not taking anything away from Revis, I'm just looking at stats which is a big part of it. 3 INTs returned for TDs is pretty impressive!

[ivo610]

I will be straight forward with everyone and state that I am a big Packer fan and just as big of a Woodson fan. Im not sure if any of you guys have ever seen the website profootballfocus.com but I think you should check it out. Woodson was all over the field this season, getting sacks, strips, helping out the best run D ect ect. Revis was the best coverage corner in the league, that is not debatable. But imo Woodson was more valuable from an overall standpoint. Yeah revis shut down some big names but did he help out in other areas? I will admit I have only seen about 3 or 4 full jets games this season.

[JasonBanz]

I will be straight forward with everyone and state that I am a big Packer fan and just as big of a Woodson fan. Im not sure if any of you guys have ever seen the website profootballfocus.com but I think you should check it out. Woodson was all over the field this season, getting sacks, strips, helping out the best run D ect ect. Revis was the best coverage corner in the league, that is not debatable. But imo Woodson was more valuable from an overall standpoint. Yeah revis shut down some big names but did he help out in other areas? I will admit I have only seen about 3 or 4 full jets games this season.

Well stated!

[legaleagle92481]

I will be straight forward with everyone and state that I am a big Packer fan and just as big of a Woodson fan. Im not sure if any of you guys have ever seen the website profootballfocus.com but I think you should check it out. Woodson was all over the field this season, getting sacks, strips, helping out the best run D ect ect. Revis was the best coverage corner in the league, that is not debatable. But imo Woodson was more valuable from an overall standpoint. Yeah revis shut down some big names but did he help out in other areas? I will admit I have only seen about 3 or 4 full jets games this season.

I admit I am biased also in that Revis is my favorite active player so much so that I dropped almost 2 grand to buy one of his jerseys the only time I ever spent over a grand on a single item. Woodson is a great player and he may very well end up in Canton someday and if I were voting for the All Pro team I would vote him and Revis as the two corners. Woodson is a tremendous athlete and he plays a variety of roles on his team and I understand that and he had great success and if not for Revis I would say he should be the unanimous DOP. It is just that Revis cannot be defined by stats alone and what he did in shutting down the leagues top receivers week after week was remarkable and has rarely been done by a corner in NFL history. His job was to take the other team's top receiver out of the game and shut down one side of the field he did so week after week after week resulting in his team being the NFL's top defense. This had a tremendous effect on each game as it made life very hard for the other team's offense to get anything going and allowed the Jets to provide help when needed to their other corners who are medicore at best. This also covered for a subpar Jets pass rush and as Cedric Benson just showed the Jets can be run on and without Revis it would have been a long season for the green and white. Asking him to blitz or play the run would minimize his talents and force him to spend snaps doing something other than his speciality and on those snaps who would cover the top receivers?

[tjm5711]

What Revis did against some of the top Receivers in the league is truly amazing. I can't argue for/against either one of these great players. I am surprised the voting wasn't closer. True stats play a huge part in the voting. That huge disparity kind of makes me think there was some kind of bias in the decision.

[ivo610]

Woodson might be the only player to win the heisman and DPOY. Not sure.

But please check out profootballfocus.com, even for other positions it helps any argument you might have in a bar. From JSonline - "Capers used Woodson to play four different positions -- cornerback, nickel back, safety and linebacker during games and he was also used to blanket the opponent's best receiver." And he is the first player to ever 3 Defensive player of the month awards. Revis is younger and will have a great chance to to win one or more in the future. Plus he has the New York media behind him.

I think Peyton should more bitter about Charles winning the heisman than Revis should be about charles winning this award.

[tjm5711]

I think another problem with the voting is Sharper only getting 3 votes. His numbers were very comparable to Woodson. He had 9 INT's, 71 tackles, 3 TD's, and even a safety. I'm not saying Sharper should have won. But he should have had a better showing in the final tally. He was just as valuable to his team as Woodson, and really helped carry the Saints' defense, which isn't particularly as dominating as the Packers or Jets. This coupled with Revis low vote total suggests a large lack of objectivity in the voting !

[legaleagle92481]

Woodson might be the only player to win the heisman and DPOY. Not sure.

But please check out profootballfocus.com, even for other positions it helps any argument you might have in a bar. From JSonline - "Capers used Woodson to play four different positions -- cornerback, nickel back, safety and linebacker during games and he was also used to blanket the opponent's best receiver." And he is the first player to ever 3 Defensive player of the month awards. Revis is younger and will have a great chance to to win one or more in the future. Plus he has the New York media behind him.

I think Peyton should more bitter about Charles winning the heisman than Revis should be about charles winning this award.

He is the only player to win both as defensive players almost never win the Heisman and he only won it because besides defense he did work on special teams and on offense. As for Revis winning in the future I doubt he or anyone could have the year he had twice and if anything there is an anti-New York bias among the writers. Look how long it took Harry Carson to get to Canton and George Young and Parcells still are not there (The he might coach again argument falls flat as Gibbs coached after being inducted so what is the big deal?). Certain writers also demean Michael Strahan and imply he is less than a hall of famer despite all the sacks, pro bowls, the single season sack record, the DPOY and the fact that unlike most pass rushers he could also play the run and oh yeah the Super Bowl upset over the Patriots that he was a major part of. One writer even tried comparing him with Chris Doleman. Back on point though it is rare for a corner to win at all if you look most of the DPOY awards have gone to linebackers especially lately. (Ray Lewis, Jason Taylor, Brian Urlacher)

[legaleagle92481]

I think another problem with the voting is Sharper only getting 3 votes. His numbers were very comparable to Woodson. He had 9 INT's, 71 tackles, 3 TD's, and even a safety. I'm not saying Sharper should have won. But he should have had a better showing in the final tally. He was just as valuable to his team as Woodson, and really helped carry the Saints' defense, which isn't particularly as dominating as the Packers or Jets. This coupled with Revis low vote total suggests a large lack of objectivity in the voting !

What it is is each writer gets only one vote. The writers do not watch every game and some likely have not even seen all the candidates play this year at all. They just look at the stats and the highlight clips which favored Woodson over the others and the fact that like the Steelers and Cowboys the Packers are a national team also helped. The Saints have a rep for playing bad D and when people think of them Brees is the first person they think of. For the Vikings Jared Allen was a good candidate but everyone focuses on Farve and Peterson mania. For the Broncos Elvis deserved consideration but the team had a terriable second half and everyone thinks of Dawkins and Champ Bailey before Elvis. The Jets are not even the most popular team in New York and much of the season was consumed by Yankee mania, the Giants falling apart and Sanchez' ups and downs.

[tjm5711]

What it is is each writer gets only one vote. The writers do not watch every game and some likely have not even seen all the candidates play this year at all. They just look at the stats and the highlight clips which favored Woodson over the others and the fact that like the Steelers and Cowboys the Packers are a national team also helped. The Saints have a rep for playing bad D and when people think of them Brees is the first person they think of. For the Vikings Jared Allen was a good candidate but everyone focuses on Farve and Peterson mania. For the Broncos Elvis deserved consideration but the team had a terriable second half and everyone thinks of Dawkins and Champ Bailey before Elvis. The Jets are not even the most popular team in New York and much of the season was consumed by Yankee mania, the Giants falling apart and Sanchez' ups and downs.



Good points about the voters not even seeing any of the play of the candidates. Sort of like the Oscars. The voters don't even have to see all the movies nominated for Best Picture when they vote. Also what you say about voters being swayed by the reputation of the Saints not being a defensive team. Voters are usually swayed by fan hysteria and general public opinion while they are glancing over the stats of candidates. Elvis belonged with the low vote totals due to the Broncos collapse. Jared Allen belongs down there too because he has the Williams brothers eight next to him, and a very solid front 7.

Sharper didn't belong down there with those guys. He had a spectacular year, and was single handedly responsible for a couple of their wins. Like I said, I don't think he deserved to win at all. If the voting was truly objective he should have received many more votes.

I feel your pain on Revis. Alot of the attention was on Sanchez who in my opinion had very little to do with the Jets' overall success. The solid running game and great Defense were the true elements of their current playoff run.
He should have also received many more votes.

[ivo610]

Jared Allen - two great games doesnt mean you deserve DPOY. Having half your sacks in 2 game is sweet but this is defensive player of the year, not of 2 games.

East Coast Bias - please bring up Harry Carson, and I will counter with Rickey Jackson. Depending on the year Michael Strahan will make the Hall. Not sure who is arguing that he wont. The only debate is 1st ballot or not. And his sack record is about as legit as Bonds's HR record.

Sharper - He missed games this season, which I feel bad for him and all but it takes away from the argument for any recognition of consideration for DPOY. He was also avg in the majority of games. And had 0 Forced Fumbles compared to Woodsons 4 (revis also had 0).

Dumervil - His season wasnt as strong in the 2nd half as the 1st. He also disappeared for games.

Rex Ryan showed his level of class (tempted to bring up his ol man but I wont) today when he trashed the voters for their pick and didnt have the class to give woodson his due. He liked to complain about how great his team was and his team that, but he also failed to mention that they were given a playoff spot. Its hard to be the most popular team when the franchise has been riddled with disappointment throughout its history.

[CollectGU]

I know playoffs don't count but it is ironic that Woodson got schooled this week while Revis absolutely shut down his side of the field. Woodson is one of reasons the Packers went home while Revis is one of the main reasons the Jets are still playing.....

Dave

[tjm5711]

I know playoffs don't count but it is ironic that Woodson got schooled this week while Revis absolutely shut down his side of the field. Woodson is one of reasons the Packers went home while Revis is one of the main reasons the Jets are still playing.....

Dave


I kind of hang the Pack's loss more on Aaron Rogers for missing a wide open Greg Jennings on the first play of OT. Of course that Official missing the facemask(on the last play of the game) and the "helmet to helmet" on Rogers the play before the strip can share some blame too. Woodson and everyone else in the Packer D takes a distant second between those two !

[nyjetsfan14]

He liked to complain about how great his team was and his team that, but he also failed to mention that they were given a playoff spot. Its hard to be the most popular team when the franchise has been riddled with disappointment throughout its history.

Giving up 51 points in a playoff game makes the fan base a little bitter I guess?

[LastingsMilledge85]

I think you can hang the Packers loss on the defense. Aaron Rodgers played his heart out and did a fabulous job, despite missing Greg Jennings. Aaron isn;t perfect, but he's better than most. Anyway, about Woodson, as a Packer fan I'm really happy for him and does deserve it, but Reevis did have the better season and should have won the award over Woodson. But also as a die hard Packers fan I could careless about these awards because how does it help the team?

[ivo610]

I know playoffs don't count but it is ironic that Woodson got schooled this week while Revis absolutely shut down his side of the field. Woodson is one of reasons the Packers went home while Revis is one of the main reasons the Jets are still playing.....

Dave


How did woodson get schooled? Oh because its his job to cover all 5 of Arizonas receivers:rolleyes: my bad. Lets forget about the FF too.

[ivo610]

Giving up 51 points in a playoff game makes the fan base a little bitter I guess?

Is a Jets fan trying to talk some smack? please dont make me respond to this in a serious way. Its like picking on the special needs kids, its just not fair.

[tjm5711]

How did woodson get schooled? Oh because its his job to cover all 5 of Arizonas receivers:rolleyes: my bad. Lets forget about the FF too.

If Woodson is one of the reasons the Packers went home. He's one of eleven. You can blame that whole Packer defense.

[ivo610]

If Woodson is one of the reasons the Packers went home. He's one of eleven. You can blame that whole Packer defense.

I think its insane to compare the two teams they played this weekend, but what the hell... Cinci is terrible passing team this season with a QB who has something seriously wrong with him(its the only way to explain why he is a shell of his former self), they have 1 good wr, and are a run oriented team. The cards are quarterbacked by the 2nd highest rated post season passer in NFL history. They have 2-3 pro bowl quality wrs and are a pass first team. chad johnson or ocho watever is no fitz and palmer is no warner. glad we got that out of the way.

The award is defensive player of the year not defensive corner of the year. :)

[ivo610]

didnt mean to quote you on that one, my bad.

[tjm5711]

I think its insane to compare the two teams they played this weekend, but what the hell... Cinci is terrible passing team this season with a QB who has something seriously wrong with him(its the only way to explain why he is a shell of his former self), they have 1 good wr, and are a run oriented team. The cards are quarterbacked by the 2nd highest rated post season passer in NFL history. They have 2-3 pro bowl quality wrs and are a pass first team. chad johnson or ocho watever is no fitz and palmer is no warner. glad we got that out of the way.

The award is defensive player of the year not defensive corner of the year. :)

I agree with your analogy about Palmer vs Warner, and Fitz vs. Ocho ! I think Fitzgerald is the best Receiver to play the game since Jerry Rice. He can carry a team if he needs to.

[ivo610]

I agree with your analogy about Palmer vs Warner, and Fitz vs. Ocho ! I think Fitzgerald is the best Receiver to play the game since Jerry Rice. He can carry a team if he needs to.

If Randy Moss wasnt sure a mental case he would be just as good as anyone in the past 2 decades. Steve smith I think is my fav to watch, he just works so hard for a little guy. He is the allen iverson of football, a little too much attitude but plays harder than 99% of the league. What fitz did last year in the playoffs reserved him a spot in canton, dude is a beast.

[tjm5711]

If Randy Moss wasnt sure a mental case he would be just as good as anyone in the past 2 decades. Steve smith I think is my fav to watch, he just works so hard for a little guy. He is the allen iverson of football, a little too much attitude but plays harder than 99% of the league. What fitz did last year in the playoffs reserved him a spot in canton, dude is a beast.

There are definitely some other guys you can make a case for. But Fitz is such a class act compared to Smith and Moss. Just by the way he carries himself on and off the field reminds me so much of the way Rice was. Of course his career has hardly matched Jerry's. At least not yet !

[legaleagle92481]

Fitz is defintely going to be a great one he has accomplished so much and is still so young but noone will ever match Rice. Warner might be done after these playoffs and if not has no more than a year or two left max the man is almost 40 and with Leinart or someone else not in Warner's league as his QB Fitz's numbers won't be as high. The QB is a very important thing to a WR look at Owens he played great when he had Young, Garcia, McNabb and Romo but once he got Fitzgerald and Edwards his numbers dropped. Or Moss he played great with Culpepper, the prime version and Brady but the Oakland QBs were terriable and his numbers were far from great. Rice played almost exclusively with very good QBs (Montana, Rice, Gannon) so that helped him alot.

[ivo610]

I will always think don hutson is the greatest wr of all time for the same reason I think Ruth is the greatest hr hitter of all time and Barry Sanders is the greatest college player of all time. Its not a popular choice to say hutson is the greatest, but its not without merit.

[tjm5711]

Fitz is defintely going to be a great one he has accomplished so much and is still so young but noone will ever match Rice. Warner might be done after these playoffs and if not has no more than a year or two left max the man is almost 40 and with Leinart or someone else not in Warner's league as his QB Fitz's numbers won't be as high. The QB is a very important thing to a WR look at Owens he played great when he had Young, Garcia, McNabb and Romo but once he got Fitzgerald and Edwards his numbers dropped. Or Moss he played great with Culpepper, the prime version and Brady but the Oakland QBs were terriable and his numbers were far from great. Rice played almost exclusively with very good QBs (Montana, Rice, Gannon) so that helped him alot.



I agree, I don't think anyone will ever top Jerry Rice. He has the rings,records, and was a credit to the game. Something a lot of these character-deprived players today will never be able to say.

[legaleagle92481]

I will always think don hutson is the greatest wr of all time for the same reason I think Ruth is the greatest hr hitter of all time and Barry Sanders is the greatest college player of all time. Its not a popular choice to say hutson is the greatest, but its not without merit.

Hutson has amazing numbers for his time and unlike Rice he did not play with MVP/HOF qbs so he is defintely in the discussion which to me can never be resolved because they played in such different eras.

[legaleagle92481]

I will always think don hutson is the greatest wr of all time for the same reason I think Ruth is the greatest hr hitter of all time and Barry Sanders is the greatest college player of all time. Its not a popular choice to say hutson is the greatest, but its not without merit.

What I meant by match Rice is from overall numbers, super bowls and awards. Hutson played before the super bowl era and there was obviously much less passing then so his numbers are naturally much less than Rice's.

[tjm5711]

Hutson has amazing numbers for his time and unlike Rice he did not play with MVP/HOF qbs so he is defintely in the discussion which to me can never be resolved because they played in such different eras.



I agree without some type of relative statistical adjustment there's really no way to compare players of such different eras. Baseball hitters are the perfect example of this. You have The "Dead Ball Era" of the early 1900's, the robust hitters Era of the 30's where guys were benched for hitting .285, and of course our "Steroid Era" where 50 home run hitters were everywhere. And even if you relatively balance out numbers there are other factors like QB's and of course the rule changes in pass coverage since Hutson played. That being the big one that I don't think there is any adjustment to compensate for.

[nyjetsfan14]

please dont make me respond to this in a serious way. Its like picking on the special needs kids, its just not fair.

Seriously?

[ivo610]

A jets fan taking shots at a Packer fan? Yeah thats serious.