Need Advice ASAP Ebay/Paypal Buyer Switched Items

[Lokee]

Allright so my Wife sold a lot of Vintage high end Barbies and clothes for a about a grand on ebay. I saw what she shipped we know we shipped her everything she won and everything was perfect. She shipped it out and it arrived 2 days later (usps confirmation). The buyer just opened a paypal dispute (about a month later) saying she didn't recieve what she ordered that all the Barbies have green on them and that NO clothes where in the package. Obviously the buyer is switching out the good Barbies and throwing in the crap ones. The buyer just sold on Jan 6th a bunch of the clothes that my Wife had sent her. This lady is a scam. We called her last night she said that she JUST opened the package yesterday and that she shipped the package back in the morning and she denied everything saying we will let paypal decide.

I feel like our hands are tied. Anyone who uses ebay/paypal knows that the BUYER has 100% protection.

So how can we prove our case ? I have all the pictures of the auction the lady won. I also have captured the auction she just sold with the clothes in it.

I need your help guys

[ivo610]

Wow thats tough. I have always had a fear of that happening to me. I havent sold a ton (about 100 items) but have never had that happen. whats the persons feedback? If I were you I would call Ebay immediately and explain your situation. When they do decide they will have that on record that you made an effort right away to tell your side of the story and your concerns with a scam.

[WadeInBmore]

Yikes...
I would say as long as you have the pictures and the auction proof...I mean if she posted pictures of what she was selling initially then the dispute ends there especially if those original clothes ended up in her future auction.

or you could close your bank account and close your paypal account I would think. Sucks to go to that extreme. I don't really know all the ins and outs of paypal but you've always got those drastic measures that people take when then lose there wallets etc.

Could you imagine selling a high-end jersey on ebay and having the buyer switch it with a retail jersey and then pulling a similar stunt...OUCH! Its an ugly world that we live in.

Good Luck. It doesn't sound like fun at all!

wade

[Lokee]

It is a tough one especially proving your case. The buyer has 150 positives and has been a member for 1 year. All she does is buy Barbie stuff.

I have 0% faith in PayPal actually making sense of this situation only because they tend to not take all the evidence into consideration.

I will be video taping our trip to the post office and the opening of the returned package so maybe that will help as well.

Looks like good old Lokee will be selling one of his game used items to pay for our mortgage LOL

[beavisrules]

I would recommend alerting the buyer that you will contacting her local police department and the postmaster general and asking them to investigate her for fraud, and that you intend to press criminal charges to the letter of the law. Would also mention that you may also file a civil suit against her as well for any funds she takes back from you + court fees + expenses for your time spent in this endeavour. Would also suggest you disconnect your bank account from your paypal account now (they can not authorize a charge back on your credit card without your consent). I think the criminal investigation for fraud may get the buyer's attention. Don't waste your time with ebay and paypal stating your case - I speak from experience here. I had a buyer buy a jersey from me via paypal with a stolen credit card. The buyer ended up with the jersey; I got nothing except the finger from paypal as they quickly removed the money from my account. I asked ebay to, at minimum, suspend the person's ebay account - they said they'd look into it, but never did.

[tjm5711]

I would recommend alerting the buyer that you will contacting her local police department and the postmaster general and asking them to investigate her for fraud, and that you intend to press criminal charges to the letter of the law. Would also mention that you may also file a civil suit against her as well for any funds she takes back from you + court fees + expenses for your time spent in this endeavour. Would also suggest you disconnect your bank account from your paypal account now (they can not authorize a charge back on your credit card without your consent). I think the criminal investigation for fraud may get the buyer's attention. Don't waste your time with ebay and paypal stating your case - I speak from experience here. I had a buyer buy a jersey from me via paypal with a stolen credit card. The buyer ended up with the jersey; I got nothing except the finger from paypal as they quickly removed the money from my account. I asked ebay to, at minimum, suspend the person's ebay account - they said they'd look into it, but never did.



I had a similar situation last year with a buyer who bought a framed jersey from me. After having it for a couple weeks he decided he didn't want it. He got a refund and PayPal put my account $1100 in the negative(the price of the item). This guy then shipped me back the BROKEN GLASS only in the box,(to make it look like he returned it) and reversed the $75 shipping charges to ME upon Receipt at the FEDEX office where I was called to pick it up ! I got there, refused to pay until I opened it with the FEDEX people as witnesses. Anyways it took about two months and Paypal verifying my story and they finally reimbursed my account. I promptly closed my account. PAYPAL IS A JOKE ! They will freeze money of yours for months, on a suspicion !

Oh yeah, the scumbag buyer ? He kept his refund, and I just saw the jersey a month or so ago back on Ebay relisted. So the piece of garbage got a free jersey and then turned around and made money selling it. Paypal wound up picking up the $1100 tab, because the Credit Card Company told them to stick it !LOL I thought it was justified since they enabled this scumbag to do this.

[10thMan]

#1 Make an effort NOT to get nasty about any of it, no-one wants to hear it, including Ebay/Paypal. People will be more likely to listen to your Case, you`ll get MUCH BETTER RESULTS.

#2 Build a Case & present it well! Photos of Original Sale, Timestamped/video as you open returned Items. Photos of the "Blinged out" Barbie Clothes your Wife sold, which the Lady did NOT return.

#3 Buyer does NOT have 100% protection, if you can Prove FRAUD/DECEIT.

Turkey Day, Lady ran a Red Light, 9700.00+ damage to my 4x4, NOT Including Medical. She Lied about the ENTIRE Process, until her Ins.Co. called her Bluff!!! If she would have Lied one more time, It would have been a Felony!!! Thank God for Witnesses. Sucks to have to fight this stuff, I`ve had to Fight for everything I have.


The Truth will come out, The Process sucks sometimes.


Sean

[tjm5711]

Paypal has a monopoly on Ebay payments and still get by with murder, due to the lack of regulation of the internet. A lot of people have and will get screwed by them.

[BULBUS]

Paypal has a monopoly on Ebay payments and still get by with murder, due to the lack of regulation of the internet. A lot of people have and will get screwed by them.


Ebay owns Paypal.

[tjm5711]

Ebay owns Paypal.


Yeah, It's a joke ! And Ebay, won't allow and independent payment service to compete with PayPal. Thus, Ebay makes all the money, and we the consumers are subject to PayPal's Gestapo like tactics !

[sammy]

There are three other credit card processing companies that you can pick from to receive payments. These companies are posted on eBay and anyone can sign up. One of the companies require you to be a PowerSeller first. The other two do not.

If you are sick of PayPal, which many are, cancel your account and sign up for one of the others. Buyers still use a credit card so they have protection against fraud.

Here is a link to these companies.

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/accepted-payments-policy.html (http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/accepted-payments-policy.html)

The less money I have to give fleabay and screwyoupal, the better.

[tjm5711]

The less money I have to give fleabay and screwyoupal, the better.[/QUOTE]



Dude, I like your style ! Love those nicknames for them !

[Neal]

Every time I get paid thru PayPal, I transfer the money to my bank account. From what I understand, they cannot go into your bank account or credit card.

I also get sig confirm on everything I sell.

[sammy]

Neal,

You need to read the very fine print in screwyoupal's rules.

They can and will go into your bank account via an electronic check to steal any money they think you owe them, and your bank will let them. Plus, screwyoupal will not give you any notice until you find out your account has been wiped out.

They will do it until they get the money or you close the account. In the meantime, you get charged the bank fees if there isn't enough money in there.

[Lokee]

thanks for everyone's help on this issue. Let's hope that justice will prevail !:p

[tjm5711]

Neal,

You need to read the very fine print in screwyoupal's rules.

They can and will go into your bank account via an electronic check to steal any money they think you owe them, and your bank will let them. Plus, screwyoupal will not give you any notice until you find out your account has been wiped out.

They will do it until they get the money or you close the account. In the meantime, you get charged the bank fees if there isn't enough money in there.



He's exactly right ! They are legal thieves ! And they do it because we sign our rights away.

[otismalibu]

I believe there is currently a cumulative limit to what you can buy on Paypal via credit card. I want to say it's $2000. I think once you reach that, you are forced to register a bank account. I'd make it a Paypal only bank account. Unless they make you register a bank account right from the start now?

If you joined Paypal way back when, there is no limit and you can pay via CC as long as you like. At least this is what a Paypal rep told me on the phone a few years back. No limit, $10,000 & $2000 were the limits, depending on when one joined.

[NYCrulesU]

I've only read the opening post, but I will say this. Regardless of Ebay's so called new "rules" citing that you can ONLY pay with PayPal (so that they can fill their greedy pockets even more), this kind of stuff is the main reason why I DO NOT use PayPal (with Ebay). Too many thieves and shady people always trying to find a way to scam. In the past, I've lost several thousand to fraudulent chargebacks, disputes and such. Never again. Either I pay with a check/money order, or I don't buy it.


Btw, I do have a PayPal account. It's used in only the rarest of situations and only with those that I trust. I do not use it in conjunction with Ebay.

[sammy]

If you want to stop using PayPal for your eBay auctions, these three credit card processing companies are also used on eBay.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Moneybookers

http://www.moneybookers.com/app/ (http://www.moneybookers.com/app/)


Propay

https://www.propay.com/ebay/eAuctionSignupInfo.aspx (https://www.propay.com/ebay/eAuctionSignupInfo.aspx)


Paymate

http://www.paymate.com/cms/index.php/ebaycom-payments (http://www.paymate.com/cms/index.php/ebaycom-payments)

[allstarsplus]

I would recommend alerting the buyer that you will contacting her local police department and the postmaster general and asking them to investigate her for fraud, and that you intend to press criminal charges to the letter of the law. Would also mention that you may also file a civil suit against her as well for any funds she takes back from you + court fees + expenses for your time spent in this endeavour. Would also suggest you disconnect your bank account from your paypal account now (they can not authorize a charge back on your credit card without your consent). I think the criminal investigation for fraud may get the buyer's attention. Don't waste your time with ebay and paypal stating your case - I speak from experience here. I had a buyer buy a jersey from me via paypal with a stolen credit card. The buyer ended up with the jersey; I got nothing except the finger from paypal as they quickly removed the money from my account. I asked ebay to, at minimum, suspend the person's ebay account - they said they'd look into it, but never did.

There you go. Unfortunately you are dealing with a criminal act it appears.

[legaleagle92481]

Here is what I would do: Immediately close your Paypal and the bank account linked to it. Take your money to a different bank. Do not accept the return if it comes return it immediately. If you let that money out of your account you will never see it again. The legal process is nice but lets face it you will never see your money again you can win a lawsuit but collecting it is another matter entirely. When I first became an attorney I practiced collection law and saw the great lengths people go to avoid paying judgments and if you have to bring in a debt collector that take a 1/3 of what they collect usually. Then as someone suggested have her arrested for mail fraud.

[xpress34]

My suggestion would be to write the buyer and let them know that you are concerned that they claim some items went missing by the time that they received the package and that you will be contacting the USPS to have an investigation open (write eBay and PayPal and tell them the same thing).

Then, contact your local Postmaster and let them know what is going on as well.

See how the seller reacts - Mail Fraud is a Felony (Fraud in General is a Felony) and the few times I've had buyers try to scam me, as soon as I mentioned a Postal Inspector getting involved to investigate for Fraud, the buyers have all changed their tunes.

Most scammers don't like being questioned by someone with the power to throw them in jail.

Just my .02

- Chris

[sammy]

1) You cannot close your PayPal account if there is a complaint active against you.

2) The USPS Inspectors will not do anything unless it involves a very high dollar item, as in high four figures, or it involves a continuous criminal enterprise. They don't have the funding, manpower, or time.

[legaleagle92481]

1) You cannot close your PayPal account if there is a complaint active against you.

2) The USPS Inspectors will not do anything unless it involves a very high dollar item, as in high four figures, or it involves a continuous criminal enterprise. They don't have the funding, manpower, or time.

Did not know that but if there is no money in that account or the linked bank account it does not matter if they will not close it. I agree that the inspectors will not jump to investigate a $1,000 case but I doubt this is the first time she has done this or the last (for all we know she could do this every week and have ripped off $100s of 1,000s of dollars) there could already be a complaint against her.

[Lokee]

:mad: What a joke. Paypal has granted the lady the full refund once the items are returned. We all know she is NOT going to return the items that where actually sent. We are taking this Barbie lady to the wall on this one.

I do not wanna close my account and can't while a dispute is opened PLUS as soon as she opened the dispute they held the amount the dispute was for)

So all in all Ebay/PayPal and the lady are commiting fraud are they not ?

My wife has sold stuff on Ebay since it was basically up and going (1996) and has had the same user id and has NEVER recieved a negative in 13 years. This other lady has been a member for 1 year.

[NYCrulesU]

Sorry to hear this Lokee. Sadly, this is not a rare occurance with Ebay/PayPal. I'll say again, this is why I refuse to use PayPal when buying/selling on Ebay.

[tjm5711]

:mad: What a joke. Paypal has granted the lady the full refund once the items are returned. We all know she is NOT going to return the items that where actually sent. We are taking this Barbie lady to the wall on this one.

I do not wanna close my account and can't while a dispute is opened PLUS as soon as she opened the dispute they held the amount the dispute was for)

So all in all Ebay/PayPal and the lady are commiting fraud are they not ?

My wife has sold stuff on Ebay since it was basically up and going (1996) and has had the same user id and has NEVER recieved a negative in 13 years. This other lady has been a member for 1 year.



I WENT THROUGH THE SAME EXACT THING ! I mentioned this earlier in the thread about the scumbag sending me the broken glass from the framed jersey! He retained the item AND got his money back. It's a freakin joke, The buyer holds all the cards. UNBELIEVABLE ! I can't believe the same thing happened to you !

[sammy]

I too have quit using screwyoupal, because as a seller I have absolutely no protection with this company against low life thieves, scammers, or just plain jerkoffs.

They always, after their independent and unbiased investigation, ;) ;), find for the buyer in any dispute.

Fleabay is a cesspool company, and they continuously screw the very people who made them so big, the sellers.

I have switched to the other credit card companies that are offered on fleabay. A list of these companies are shown in this thread if you want to quit getting screwed by fleabay and it's little sister, screwyoupal.

[MikeM]

:mad: What a joke. Paypal has granted the lady the full refund once the items are returned. We all know she is NOT going to return the items that where actually sent. We are taking this Barbie lady to the wall on this one.

I do not wanna close my account and can't while a dispute is opened PLUS as soon as she opened the dispute they held the amount the dispute was for)

So all in all Ebay/PayPal and the lady are commiting fraud are they not ?

My wife has sold stuff on Ebay since it was basically up and going (1996) and has had the same user id and has NEVER recieved a negative in 13 years. This other lady has been a member for 1 year.
What a horrible situation. I'm so sorry to hear about this.
Please don't give up on this, especially if you have auctions where she was selling the exact same barbie clothes she's claiming she never received.

I would suggest as others that you tell her (calmly) that you're contacting her local police department as well as the postmaster.

Lastly, I play poker and there's a move no one has mentioned but you'd have to act fast BEFORE she sends back the items. It's a bluff. Tell her you've had problems in the past with similar items you've sold on eBay so now you use an invisible pen to mark all items. This insignia you put on all items (clothes included) can only be seen under a special blacklight, etc. (Or something similar). Tell her that you know you sent the items correctly, and when the items come back WITHOUT these markings, you'll be pursuing federal mail fraud charges which are a felony. This will be easy to prove. Again, you never did this, but she doesn't know this so it's worth a shot as a bluff.

I personally wouldn't even try to close my paypal account and unlink my bank account even if I could. It not only looks like you might be the one doing the scam, but also, you'd then never be able to use paypal for your own purchases in the future. (Possibly a good thing, but I'd still want the option on my own terms and not because of this criminal who is pulling a scam.)

In any event, but of luck to you on this.

[tjm5711]

Like I previously said in this thread, I dealt with an almost identical situation.

You need to do THREE things:

1.) Don't accept any return package from this lady. You might get an empty box like I did(minus the broken glass LOL). Then you'll give her leverage, and she'll say she sent it back to you.

2.) Provide any proof you can for PayPal, and don't take NO for an answer.

3.) Move most of the money in your Bank Account associated with your PayPal Account somewhere else.

[Lokee]

UPDATE

PayPal has given the lady untill the 18th to provide a tracking number for the return and as of 430 pm Pacific Jan 12, 2010 she has not shipped the items back.

I did what was suggested (write an email explain mail fraud and that she will be taken to court) and did it VERY professional/nicely so we shall see what happens.

[tjm5711]

UPDATE

PayPal has given the lady untill the 18th to provide a tracking number for the return and as of 430 pm Pacific Jan 12, 2010 she has not shipped the items back.

I did what was suggested (write an email explain mail fraud and that she will be taken to court) and did it VERY professional/nicely so we shall see what happens.



Be sure you open the return package in the presence of a Witness from the delivery company/post office ! She could send you an empty box back, then you'll really be screwed !

[suicide_squeeze]

:mad: What a joke. Paypal has granted the lady the full refund once the items are returned. We all know she is NOT going to return the items that where actually sent. We are taking this Barbie lady to the wall on this one.

I do not wanna close my account and can't while a dispute is opened PLUS as soon as she opened the dispute they held the amount the dispute was for)

So all in all Ebay/PayPal and the lady are commiting fraud are they not ?

My wife has sold stuff on Ebay since it was basically up and going (1996) and has had the same user id and has NEVER recieved a negative in 13 years. This other lady has been a member for 1 year.

Lokee, one tough sitch to be in, I'm really sorry.

What paypal's policy is.....is taking the easiest solution to a major problem by attempting to put things in reverse, and back to the way things were before the transaction occured. This is wonderful.....in the movies.

But we have to deal in real life.

So, in my view, they are acting as enablers and as an accessory to a crime. But the way they view it is.....If the buyer gets their money back, and the seller receives their merchandise back (and that's the problem here....who knows if that will happen), that is the best solution to a bad problem. Essentially this is completely screwing the seller, because all the time you spent listing the item, then having to wait for the auction to end, has now just been wiped off the face of the earth like it never happened. But you along with all of us.....and this awful witch who pulled this scam on you......all know it did.

Just another example of a low-life taking advantage of the system, and a worse realization that some very large companies in America allow the tragedies to be perpetuated by criminals against decent people, doing things right, following the rules, and sticking to the law of the land, over and over and over again.

Lokee, I have had this type of bad experience once with ebay. If you get the merchandise back, and it is in ANY way altered or messed with, incomplete, defective, etc., call Paypal and tell them you received "damages goods" back.....items you sent out in good condition which are now damaged and leaves you in a position of being unable to relist them as they were.

Paypal will then ask you to send the items to them, of course which you need to do with delivery confirmation. After performing a basic investigation which includes nothing more than viewing your damaged items to verify that fact) they will reimburse you the sale amount of your auction, because they have insurance to cover these types of bad situations.....I believe up to $2,000 a claim (not positive of that amount, but you can always find out by asking them).

Then, it is the insurance companies task of deciding whether or not they want to go after the buyer for the cost of the items, based on what they find by their review of the "damaged goods". That is about the only thing I have found to be positive in regards to the policies of Paypal.

So, Lokee, if you do receive them back "damaged".....make sure before you send them to paypal, you take a few digital photos showing the issues. They will be able to pull up from archives your original photos diplayed in your auction for comparison.

It's a huge hassle, but it in end, it's the closest thing to justice you will find as it will reconstruct the results of your auction before the criminal activity occured, and put this wrong situation back on the right side of the law.....your side!


Have I mentioned lately that I hate ebay?


Good luck in obtaining a positive outcome, Lokee.

Steve

[commando]

Lokee, one tough sitch to be in, I'm really sorry.

What paypal's policy is.....is taking the easiest solution to a major problem by attempting to put things in reverse, and back to the way things were before the transaction occured. This is wonderful.....in the movies.

But we have to deal in real life.

So, in my view, they are acting as enablers and as an accessory to a crime. But the way they view it is.....If the buyer gets their money back, and the seller receives their merchandise back (and that's the problem here....who knows if that will happen), that is the best solution to a bad problem. Essentially this is completely screwing the seller, because all the time you spent listing the item, then having to wait for the auction to end, has now just been wiped off the face of the earth like it never happened. But you along with all of us.....and this awful witch who pulled this scam on you......all know it did.

Just another example of a low-life taking advantage of the system, and a worse realization that some very large companies in America allow the tragedies to be perpetuated by criminals against decent people, doing things right, following the rules, and sticking to the law of the land, over and over and over again.

Lokee, I have had this type of bad experience once with ebay. If you get the merchandise back, and it is in ANY way altered or messed with, incomplete, defective, etc., call Paypal and tell them you received "damages goods" back.....items you sent out in good condition which are now damaged and leaves you in a position of being unable to relist them as they were.

Paypal will then ask you to send the items to them, of course which you need to do with delivery confirmation. After performing a basic investigation which includes nothing more than viewing your damaged items to verify that fact) they will reimburse you the sale amount of your auction, because they have insurance to cover these types of bad situations.....I believe up to $2,000 a claim (not positive of that amount, but you can always find out by asking them).

Then, it is the insurance companies task of deciding whether or not they want to go after the buyer for the cost of the items, based on what they find by their review of the "damaged goods". That is about the only thing I have found to be positive in regards to the policies of Paypal.

So, Lokee, if you do receive them back "damaged".....make sure before you send them to paypal, you take a few digital photos showing the issues. They will be able to pull up from archives your original photos diplayed in your auction for comparison.

It's a huge hassle, but it in end, it's the closest thing to justice you will find as it will reconstruct the results of your auction before the criminal activity occured, and put this wrong situation back on the right side of the law.....your side!


Have I mentioned lately that I hate ebay?


Good luck in obtaining a positive outcome, Lokee.

Steve

Awesome post, Steve. Hope this all turns out well, because I'm sure someone else here will need to reference this thread in the future.

[TriplexXxSports]

Lokee, I have had this type of bad experience once with ebay. If you get the merchandise back, and it is in ANY way altered or messed with, incomplete, defective, etc., call Paypal and tell them you received "damages goods" back.....items you sent out in good condition which are now damaged and leaves you in a position of being unable to relist them as they were.

Paypal will then ask you to send the items to them, of course which you need to do with delivery confirmation. After performing a basic investigation which includes nothing more than viewing your damaged items to verify that fact) they will reimburse you the sale amount of your auction, because they have insurance to cover these types of bad situations.....I believe up to $2,000 a claim (not positive of that amount, but you can always find out by asking them).

Then, it is the insurance companies task of deciding whether or not they want to go after the buyer for the cost of the items, based on what they find by their review of the "damaged goods". That is about the only thing I have found to be positive in regards to the policies of Paypal.

So, Lokee, if you do receive them back "damaged".....make sure before you send them to paypal, you take a few digital photos showing the issues. They will be able to pull up from archives your original photos diplayed in your auction for comparison.

It's a huge hassle, but it in end, it's the closest thing to justice you will find as it will reconstruct the results of your auction before the criminal activity occured, and put this wrong situation back on the right side of the law.....your side!


Have I mentioned lately that I hate ebay?


Good luck in obtaining a positive outcome, Lokee.

Steve

This may not always work. I had a situation where a buyer purchased and autographed jersey from me. I sent it neatly folded in a bag. Everything was in tact, the COA and proof photo was in a nice presentation envelop, etc.

Make a long story short, the buyer didn't want it and opened a claim with PAYPAL as item not as described. PAYPAL naturally snatched my money, so I asked the buyer to send the item back (in its original condition).

When the jersey arrived, it was wadded up inside of the shipping bag, wrinkled beyond repair, it reeked of smoke and funk, the proof pic was torn in half and the COA was nowhere to be found.

I immediately got the camera and documented everything and returned to PAYPAL do to exactly what you are referring to - open a claim against the buyer for items received as damaged or not in its original condition, along with providing a dozen or so pictures of the jerseys condition.

PAYPAL did squat. I went in circles with them for months and got nowhere. I had to eat a jersey that was unable to be resold, and out the cash for the listing and original purchase price.

I would be weary about this avenue. PAYPAL will do all they can NOT to have to eat the cost. If I got the shaft over a couple hundred, I can't imagine them budging for thousands.

I wish you all the best - KEEP UP THE FIGHT!

[NEFAN]

It is a tough one especially proving your case. The buyer has 150 positives and has been a member for 1 year. All she does is buy Barbie stuff.

I have 0% faith in PayPal actually making sense of this situation only because they tend to not take all the evidence into consideration.

I will be video taping our trip to the post office and the opening of the returned package so maybe that will help as well.

Looks like good old Lokee will be selling one of his game used items to pay for our mortgage LOL

Of course they have all positives, you can't leave a negative any more!

[tjm5711]

This may not always work. I had a situation where a buyer purchased and autographed jersey from me. I sent it neatly folded in a bag. Everything was in tact, the COA and proof photo was in a nice presentation envelop, etc.

Make a long story short, the buyer didn't want it and opened a claim with PAYPAL as item not as described. PAYPAL naturally snatched my money, so I asked the buyer to send the item back (in its original condition).

When the jersey arrived, it was wadded up inside of the shipping bag, wrinkled beyond repair, it reeked of smoke and funk, the proof pic was torn in half and the COA was nowhere to be found.

I immediately got the camera and documented everything and returned to PAYPAL do to exactly what you are referring to - open a claim against the buyer for items received as damaged or not in its original condition, along with providing a dozen or so pictures of the jerseys condition.

PAYPAL did squat. I went in circles with them for months and got nowhere. I had to eat a jersey that was unable to be resold, and out the cash for the listing and original purchase price.

I would be weary about this avenue. PAYPAL will do all they can NOT to have to eat the cost. If I got the shaft over a couple hundred, I can't imagine them budging for thousands.

I wish you all the best - KEEP UP THE FIGHT!



PayPal will screw you if you're the seller. And yes for thousands, no doubt ! The worst part is all the time you spend on the phone on hold.

I'm telling you though. BEWARE of receiving an empty package back as a return. It will be your word against theirs.

[Lokee]

PayPal will screw you if you're the seller. And yes for thousands, no doubt ! The worst part is all the time you spend on the phone on hold.

I'm telling you though. BEWARE of receiving an empty package back as a return. It will be your word against theirs.

Still no confirmation of a return.

I plan on documenting the whole thing on video from the moment the package is recieved from the postman to it being opened "live infront of our naked steaming eyes" (David Lee Roth Quote).

Iam hoping that email worked and she knows she has been made and will just say screw it.

[tjm5711]

Still no confirmation of a return.

I plan on documenting the whole thing on video from the moment the package is recieved from the postman to it being opened "live infront of our naked steaming eyes" (David Lee Roth Quote).

Iam hoping that email worked and she knows she has been made and will just say screw it.

EXCELLENT IDEA ! I never thought of video taping it. Make sure to zoom in on the package's unique numbers and labels. Very good thinking, Now you're really covering your backside !

[ivo610]

If this was within a 5 hour drive I would be showing up at someones house.

[Lokee]

UPDATE:

So according to paypal she has sent back the item. The 18th was her last day to do so and she printed the label up last night I checked the tracking and it comes up "No Record Of Item" so iam assuming it has not actually hit the post office yet.

[commando]

If you do indeed receive a package from her, I would open it in the presence of a police officer or detective. They'll be your first-hand witness of what was sent back. Because of the dollar amount here, there's a good chance that her antics will be considered some kind of felony theft (amount varies from state to state).

Even if your police don't have jurisdiction over the case because the theft took place in the crook's home town, your local police can still do a short report on their end to verify what you did or didn't receive -- and be a way to get the attention of the crook's hometown police department too.

A PSA from your fellow forum member and former police officer. :)

[capitalssticks]

i would refuse the package if you know she switched it out

[Lokee]

UPDATE

The returned package is waiting at my post office. It was brought to my attention that paypal requires Signature Confirmation on any packages over $250 when making a return. I checked and it is Delivery Confirmation not Signature. But If

So should I pick it up or put return to sender ?

Iam very confused on what to do

What makes matters worse is that BITCH is selling my wife's dolls as we speak on ebay dressing them in there clothes that she said she never got !!! This is getting disgusting !

[Lokee]

I checked the label and it was marked delivery confirmation. I just now mailed a package and looked at the package that was being returned. Turns out there is boh a delivery confirmation and a signature confirmation tag on the box. I did not pick it up as I do not know what to do can I refuse the package ? and if I do will I blow my case ?

[cards-bats]

Anyone in the mood to buy a few dolls and pull the same thing on her?

[both-teams-played-hard]

Fight blonde dolls with brunette actions figures:

http://i47.tinypic.com/2e4c9kz.jpg

[both-teams-played-hard]

I checked the label and it was marked delivery confirmation. I just now mailed a package and looked at the package that was being returned. Turns out there is boh a delivery confirmation and a signature confirmation tag on the box. I did not pick it up as I do not know what to do can I refuse the package ? and if I do will I blow my case ?
If the package was indeed sent with signature confirmation and you refuse, then PayPal will automatically close the case and give her the money.

[earlywynnfan]

I think the best suggestion was to open the box right there in front of the postal clerk, photographing every step of the way. Print off every one of her sales, comparing them to what your wife sold. See if you can get a quickie conversation with a lawyer, asking what constitutes fraud, and go from there. If paypal sides with her, attack.

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

[commando]

Don't just open the package in front of a postal clerk. Request to speak with the local POSTMASTER, because this is probably a case of postal fraud. Bring copies of the auction, etc. with you to show the Postmaster what's going on. My other suggestion from earlier is to open the package in front of a police officer or detective, because the amount of money we're talking about here should be sufficient to be a decent theft case.

[Lokee]

Here is the video we took getting the package back to us.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cp0LeN7syDU

[sammy]

What is the eBay user ID of this piece of trash?

[BULBUS]

Here is the video we took getting the package back to us.

Thats $1,000! :eek:

I guess you didn't get back everything you sold?

What are you going to do next?

[cohibasmoker]

Every time I ship an item over $100.00 to a person I don't know, I shoot a scan of the item at the PO. In this case, I sold my Cowboys helmet. Note the shipping label and the date on the scan. I usually ship from my local PO but this one went from Philly - people looked at me kind of strange but no-one said anything. Is it a pain in the butt? Not really.

If an item is returned, I'll open the box with our mail delivery person standing by.

Jim

flaa1a@comcast.net

[TriplexXxSports]

I heard your wife say that she was going to call the police at the end of that video. Did she call and were you given any information on what to do?

[commando]

It would have been nice to have a postmaster or police officer present. Oh well. Good luck!

[dcrules01]

What is the eBay user ID of this piece of trash?

Yeah what is her user name?? That is wrong it sucks that trash is out there and ebay has made it a point to screw you and give this lady the advantage..:mad:

[MikeM]

Here is the video we took getting the package back to us.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cp0LeN7syDU

Wow, unreal.
I really hope this seller goes to jail.

Keep us posted.

[Buster]

Wow, unreal.
I really hope this seller goes to jail.

Keep us posted.


The postmaster has just had the FBI add her to the top ten most wanted list......here's her picture

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i202/vanbend/Cool%20and%20Funny%20Pics%20-%20PG13/abcdefq.jpg

Notice the "shipping department personel in the background.


On a more serious note, Lokee, go get the criminal!!

[Lokee]

Her user id is beanietoad. We contacted several of her trading partners and all that responded said she was crazy and one even said they tried to rip her off.

To answer a couple questions. We called the postmaster before we went to the post office. She said there is nothing she can do to get our money back but to film the opening of the package and she would help us file mail fraud charges against the lady.

The lady received ALL her money back via paypal today.

I guess the auction my wife sold was originally 899.99 or something but she took best offer of 6 hundred and something.

We managed to find the lady on facebook and found out alot of her information including she owns a business, is married with kids ect...

Also YES to answer tripleXXXSports we did call the police and we did fill out a police report. Once again they said they could not do much. We gave the police all of the ladies information as well.

[Lokee]

here is the original auction of what the lady bid on and was sent.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220527091946

You can see the video of what she sent back.

Big difference.

[Lokee]

one more thing we have disputed the reversal.

[kudu]

UPDATE

What makes matters worse is that BITCH is selling my wife's dolls as we speak on ebay dressing them in there clothes that she said she never got !!! This is getting disgusting !

Is she using any of your wife's photos from the original auction? If so, you can report that to Ebay and they can pull her auction for using someone elses photos without permission.

[ferro39]

pretty ballsy to send trash back

i mean, a noisemaker? honestly?

[platinum1]

I would contact the local news so that they can do a story about how crappy Ebay really is.
I'm sure something would get done ASAP!!

[ivo610]

Set up another account and wait until she list something and do the same thing back to her. What state does she live in?

[slambam]

Wow, are those items with the pink background the ones you sold her? She made some good cash on those. How can eBay not notice that they are the same items? I guess they probably just don't care though. Do they have a phone number to call and talk to somebody? It's just amazing how they have everything in front of them, and even 2328 feedback, yet they fail to hekp you out here. Take her to Judge Judy. I hope you don't go down without a fight. At the worst I'd do what ivo says. I'd say it's fair game after she did it. Where does she lives in the midwest? I'm in the midwest. Want me to track her down and slash her tires? Payback's a bitch, right? (jk, I know there are law enforcement officers here, do not take seriously)

[ivo610]

Wow, are those items with the pink background the ones you sold her? She made some good cash on those. How can eBay not notice that they are the same items? I guess they probably just don't care though. Do they have a phone number to call and talk to somebody? It's just amazing how they have everything in front of them, and even 2328 feedback, yet they fail to hekp you out here. Take her to Judge Judy. I hope you don't go down without a fight. At the worst I'd do what ivo says. I'd say it's fair game after she did it. Where does she lives in the midwest? I'm in the midwest. Want me to track her down and slash her tires? Payback's a bitch, right? (jk, I know there are law enforcement officers here, do not take seriously)

lol, I think we should set up a "meet and greet"

But seriously kids, men should never hit women.... unless it involves screwing someone over like in this situation, then by all means go ahead. I dont condone what OJ did... but i understand.

[Lokee]

you guys (ivo & slam) are funny.

She lives in Watson Illinois. I live in Seattle WA.

I would never hit a woman but all is fair if it is woman on woman right ? My wife would kick the crap out of her LOL hands down ;)

SlamBam we have spent hours on the phone with Ebay and PayPal and even though they admit that what the lady is doing is wrong they have yet as of Feb 2nd 2010 to send us any money back. They did request a copy of the police report and all our documents however we have no ruling on the appeal.

Yeah man this does suck.

After doing all my re-search it does not say ANYWHERE that the buyer must return the EXACT item that was sent if they file a claim through paypal as not as described. We asked paypal this and they could not answer why.

[ivo610]

Watson? Thats only 328 miles from my house. I say if you get the money back from paypal you buy your wife a plane ticket (STL would be the closest airport) for valentines day. It would be very thoughtful of you.

[ivo610]

Watson? Thats only 328 miles from my house. I say if you get the money back from paypal you buy your wife a plane ticket (STL would be the closest airport) for valentines day. It would be very thoughtful of you.

Im not sure if your wife is the violent type but I assume she would love to get her hands on this lady.

[Lokee]

She would LOVE to get her hands on her that is for sure.:)

[Buster]

Set up another account and wait until she list something and do the same thing back to her. What state does she live in?

Now THERE'S some advice to live by!!!

That-a-boy ivo!!!!


Sometimes I wonder why I started to post here?

Buster

[Buster]

Wow, are those items with the pink background the ones you sold her? She made some good cash on those. How can eBay not notice that they are the same items? I guess they probably just don't care though. Do they have a phone number to call and talk to somebody? It's just amazing how they have everything in front of them, and even 2328 feedback, yet they fail to hekp you out here. Take her to Judge Judy. I hope you don't go down without a fight. At the worst I'd do what ivo says. I'd say it's fair game after she did it. Where does she lives in the midwest? I'm in the midwest. Want me to track her down and slash her tires? Payback's a bitch, right? (jk, I know there are law enforcement officers here, do not take seriously)


I'm starting to think the feds are going to be reading these threads for a whole other reason than "monitoring the memorabilia industry".

The level of mentality here is starting to become alarming.

Do you posters think before you type this nonsense? I am not trying to be offensive to anyone, but I have to say, if you want to help this poor guy out, can't you at least give him some proper advice without lowering the level of suggestions to this kind of childish criminal juvenile suggestions? What does that say for the level of collectors this site has that frequent here? I'm sure many here do not appreciate these kinds of comments.

I'm just saying.

Buster

[Buster]

I would contact the local news so that they can do a story about how crappy Ebay really is.
I'm sure something would get done ASAP!!

It's crappy because Meg Whitman has turned her attention to running for the Governorship of California.

[ivo610]

I'm starting to think the feds are going to be reading these threads for a whole other reason than "monitoring the memorabilia industry".

The level of mentality here is starting to become alarming.

Do you posters think before you type this nonsense? I am not trying to be offensive to anyone, but I have to say, if you want to help this poor guy out, can't you at least give him some proper advice without lowering the level of suggestions to this kind of childish criminal juvenile suggestions? What does that say for the level of collectors this site has that frequent here? I'm sure many here do not appreciate these kinds of comments.

I'm just saying.

Buster

Sorry if I offended you by trying to make light of a situation that doesnt look very promising for the seller involved. But truthfully I was only half joking. Most people like to hide behind their computers and become a different person when confronted.

I think there are some more non serious post on a couple threads over in game used. maybe you should go police those.

[Buster]

Sorry if I offended you by trying to make light of a situation that doesnt look very promising for the seller involved. But truthfully I was only half joking. Most people like to hide behind their computers and become a different person when confronted.

I think there are some more non serious post on a couple threads over in game used. maybe you should go police those.

Not only does it look promising, it's all falling together for him.

The shameful part of all of this is that he has to go through all the proper, expensive, and timely motions to achieve the obvious outcome because Paypal and Ebay do nothing to bring the blatant shameless criminal to justice. I just want to see him succeed. I meant no offense to you. I just want you guys to keep it in the right direction. Lokee needs to seek support, and do everything in his power to prosecute this trash. If this thread ever gets called into evidence as part of a trial, how would that look for him if he is found here agreeing to all of this childish light-hearted nonsense.

Think about it.

Buster

[ivo610]

Not only does it look promising, it's all falling together for him.

The shameful part of all of this is that he has to go through all the proper, expensive, and timely motions to achieve the obvious outcome because Paypal and Ebay do nothing to bring the blatant shameless criminal to justice. I just want to see him succeed. I meant no offense to you. I just want you guys to keep it in the right direction. Lokee needs to seek support, and do everything in his power to prosecute this trash. If this thread ever gets called into evidence as part of a trial, how would that look for him if he is found here agreeing to all of this childish light-hearted nonsense.

Think about it.

Buster

I can picture it now! GUU founder Chris C has to fly to S. Illinois (or the pacific northwest) to testify in small claims court for a member's wife's eBay sale. Maybe we can turn it into a GUU convention that everyone has always talked about. I'll bring Jello!

[ivo610]

But I do agree and hope he is able to recover his familys money. I believe if there was anything any of us could do to help stop or reverse crime like this we would. Sadely I can not offer legal advice, so I tried a little humor. That was my support. I enjoyed reading this thread but since I have upset you I will refrain from further postings here. Best of luck Loki

[ned flanders]

Seriosuly, what's her eBay userid? Karma's a bitch, and I like helping people out. You seem like you play by the rules, so I'll play by them also if you give me her userid.

[5kRunner]

Lokee,

I sent you an email. Watson is about 10 miles from me. Let me know if there is anything I can do.

[Lokee]

If this thread ever gets called into evidence as part of a trial, how would that look for him if he is found here agreeing to all of this childish light-hearted nonsense.

Think about it.

Buster

I wasn't born yesterday LOL and I know what is wrong and what is right. Saying that my wife would like to get her hands on her is not incriminating it is the truth. Does it mean it will happen ? No not really.

We appreciate EVERYONE'S support and welcome all comments.

[bigtruck260]

I wasn't born yesterday LOL and I know what is wrong and what is right. Saying that my wife would like to get her hands on her is not incriminating it is the truth. Does it mean it will happen ? No not really.

We appreciate EVERYONE'S support and welcome all comments.

Hey Lokee - at least you are getting the word out...3500 views to this thread and climbing.

[bigtruck260]

I also just checked Google...

If you search: beanietoad ebay

This thread comes up toward the top.

[Fnazxc0114]

Dang man i read this whole thread. Nothing surpises me any more. I am a firm believer in karma.

[Lokee]

Hey Lokee - at least you are getting the word out...3500 views to this thread and climbing.

That my friend is a good thing. I hope it gets around the lady is a crook. I also hope it gets around about ebay/paypal and what nonsense it is to allow this type of crap to go on.

[momen55]

we need some hammers to come down on ebay/paypal! :eek:

[Lokee]

I will say this. From the research I have done I would be better off taking PayPal to court than the lady. I wouldn't even have to leave WA state to sue PayPal. I have read several judgments against paypal for the EXACT same thing this lady is doing.

[Lokee]

I also noticed that she just made her feedback private after receiving a nice bright red Neggy. You watch I give her a week before she is no longer registered.

[NYCrulesU]

we need some hammers to come down on ebay/paypal! :eek:


It's a long time overdue.

[Lokee]

Thanks again for everyone's help. I tried talking to both of our families and friends, most are clueless as to what to do.

On a side note what an epic thread this has turned out to be. Alot of information has been shared. If this happens to anyone else (god I hope it doesn't) this will definately be helpful.

[legaleagle92481]

Thanks again for everyone's help. I tried talking to both of our families and friends, most are clueless as to what to do.

On a side note what an epic thread this has turned out to be. Alot of information has been shared. If this happens to anyone else (god I hope it doesn't) this will definately be helpful.

Your best bet is to consult a lawyer, many give free consultations to find out all of your options, who you have a case against, etc.

[BULBUS]

I will say this. From the research I have done I would be better off taking PayPal to court than the lady. I wouldn't even have to leave WA state to sue PayPal. I have read several judgments against paypal for the EXACT same thing this lady is doing.

Please sue Paypal. Maybe after they loose enough lawsuits, they will make the necessary changes to prevent thieves like this from ripping people off.

[chipperhank44]

I know I'm late to this thread, but I had a similar issue and I contacted my local police dept. They came to my house and took my statement. The policeman said there was nothing he could really do, but said he'd try his best to help me out. The policeman contacted the police department where the buyer lived and asked if a policeman up there would run by the buyer's house and let them know a report had been filed and give them my phone number. About an hour later I received a phone call from the buyer's wife who had no idea what was going on. I explained to her what her husband was trying to pull and advised her if she didn't want him in legal trouble that he needed to drop his dispute. She was upset, but said she didn't want any trouble and would make sure the situation was fixed The next day the dispute was gone. Seems like resolving these type of issues is always a long shot, I got lucky.

[Lokee]

Well kids good news !!!

:):):):):):)

We received an email this morning from PayPal asking us to send in the package we received back from the lady and when they receive it they will process a full refund to our account.

We are still planning an filing mail fraud charges through the post office so hopefully they will suspend her from receiving mail.

Alot of stress has been lifted off our household that is for sure.

Thanks again

Lokee (chris)

[sammy]

Congrats............

Apparently hell just froze over and pigs are flying.

[both-teams-played-hard]

Well kids good news !!!

:):):):):):)

We received an email this morning from PayPal asking us to send in the package we received back from the lady and when they receive it they will process a full refund to our account.

We are still planning an filing mail fraud charges through the post office so hopefully they will suspend her from receiving mail.

Alot of stress has been lifted off our household that is for sure.

Thanks again

Lokee (chris)

That's good, make sure to add a signature confirmation tracking number.

[ivo610]

Well kids good news !!!

:):):):):):)

We received an email this morning from PayPal asking us to send in the package we received back from the lady and when they receive it they will process a full refund to our account.

We are still planning an filing mail fraud charges through the post office so hopefully they will suspend her from receiving mail.

Alot of stress has been lifted off our household that is for sure.

Thanks again

Lokee (chris)

Congrats, you deserve every cent. I glad to see the right person won in this case.

[Lokee]

here is the email notice they make US pay for shipping LOL

We are currently investigating your appeal.

-----------------------------------
Transaction Details
-----------------------------------

Buyer's name: Angie Nohren
Buyer's email: nohren_8822@yahoo.com
Transaction ID: 5YE10984SY994973A
Transaction date: Dec 20, 2009
Transaction amount: $615.00 USD
Your transaction ID: 8HM802171T583883V
Case number: PP-870-948-409

You'll be eligible for a refund once the items associated with this appeal
are delivered to PayPal. (You are responsible for any shipping and handling
costs.):eek:

-----------------------------------
What To Do Next
-----------------------------------

Ship the items to PayPal at this address:
PayPal Returns
PO Box 45951
Omaha, NE 68145-0951

-----------------------------------
Deadline: 10 calendar days
-----------------------------------

Before shipping this item ensure that you have included the case ID
(PP-870-948-409) on the shipping label of the package. Once you have
shipped the item(s), please reply to this email and provide online tracking
information for the package.

This tracking information is necessary because it confirms that the package
was delivered. Once the shipment has been verified by PayPal, you'll
receive a refund.

Thank you.

Thanks,
Lynn
PayPal

[neverfinished94]

great news!

[dcrules01]

That is great hopefully some kind of legal action will be taking against her..

[yankees.stub]

Chris,

Keep your fingers crossed buddy!


I have the same letter email back from similar situation - I supposed to get refunded for item not received as described .... guess what, it never happened since they CANT verified the tracking number for the package ... then they will ask you to fax over the post office receipt along with tracking number... with the promise that you will be refunded....


So to make the story short ... dont hold your breath.


I am still waiting for my refund ... and it happened five months ago!

[Lokee]

Chris,

Keep your fingers crossed buddy!


I have the same letter email back from similar situation - I supposed to get refunded for item not received as described .... guess what, it never happened since they CANT verified the tracking number for the package ... then they will ask you to fax over the post office receipt along with tracking number... with the promise that you will be refunded....


So to make the story short ... dont hold your breath.


I am still waiting for my refund ... and it happened five months ago!


Sounds like a VERY different problem than what we have. Sorry you never recieved your money.

[yankees.stub]

Sounds like a VERY different problem than what we have. Sorry you never recieved your money.


Maybe..:D

But if I was you, make sure the tracking number is TRACKABLE and as soon as the package is DELIVERED, call them up and by pass the customer services rep.... request a manager and hopefully you get your re-imbursement!


(just finish speaking with a manager... so with the exact replied... i should get the refunded within 7 days!)



Still keeping my fingers crossed!

[Lokee]

I got signature confirmation on the package.

So you are the buyer in your problem or the seller ?

[yankees.stub]

I got signature confirmation on the package.

So you are the buyer in your problem or the seller ?


Buyer...


God forbid .. I have never encounter your case ... talking about worst case scenario!

[Lokee]

Buyer...


God forbid .. I have never encounter your case ... talking about worst case scenario!

No kidding

Hopefully you will get your funds back :)

[dcgreg25]

Lokee, congrats on the good news!

[slambam]

Very nice! Hopefully all goes well and you get your refund. As bad as PayPal/eBay looks here, they have the chance to make it right, and at least it appears they are trying to now.

[Lokee]

Got an email from paypal stating they received our package and will send a refund within 5 days.

[yankees.stub]

Got an email from paypal stating they received our package and will send a refund within 5 days.


Hey, you got 2 days less than me!


My day is by this friday ... lets wait and see ....



(with your avatar and mine.... wanna fight?)



:D

[Lokee]

just received all my money back via paypal. Now on to press some mail fraud charges.

[MikeM]

great news!
The good guys win! :D

Please totally pursue criminal mail charges against here.
She needs to be punished big time.

P.S. Btw, how could she be so stupid to SELL the items she received from you without selling under a different ID? Unreal.

[Neely8]

I'm glad to hear this ended favorably for you. The dirtbag that did this to you now has to worry about the karma that is going blind side them. I'm a firm believer in what comes around goes around!

[skipcarayislegend]

Go get her, Lokee. That lady should be seriously concerned at this point. I would think that law enforcement and ebay would side with you now since paypal has basically acknowledged what happened.