Question about Hank Aaron 1976 bat on ebay

[harpt]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370314075612&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

It is possible that I just have not seen enough of these, but every bicentennial bat I have ever seen is lacking "powerized" and has the liberty bell instead. This Hank Aaron bat has both. Can anyone shed some light on this for me?

[metsbats]

Scott,

In 1976 the Powerized was removed and in its place the Liberty bell.

Not sure what to make of this. Perhaps a variation or misstamp?

I'm sure BMH can shed some light on this.

[metsbats]

I remember seeing commerative 76 bats made for players retire players like Ruth and did a quick google and came up with this Baseball Digest from 1976

http://books.google.com/books?id=xDQDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA5&lpg=PA5&dq=babe+ruth+1976+bat&source=bl&ots=rs69fnh3n-&sig=6KJprlL98ougJH2aQZz4fv4-HYk&hl=en&ei=VPtDS5SQOcGwlAfB9oyqBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CB4Q6AEwCTgU#v=onepage&q=babe%20ruth%201976%20bat&f=false

These commerative bats (Note Aaron is one of the players) seem to have the powerized on the barrel if my eyes do not deceive me.

What do you think?

[jetersbatboy]

I am currently the high bidder of the bat, wish I wasnt!!!! Dont bid its a fake, a bad bat!!!!!!:D :eek:

I have heard of this before, but this bat is, only one I have seen. Jeff scott has commented on the possibility of the powerized being applied, in late season of 1976

http://webpages.charter.net/birdbats/Birdbats/Bat%20ID/LS%201950-1979.htm

[metsbats]

I am currently the high bidder of the bat, wish I wasnt!!!! Dont bid its a fake, a bad bat!!!!!!:D :eek:

I have heard of this before, but this bat is, only one I have seen. Jeff scott has commented on the possibility of the powerized being applied, in late season of 1976

http://webpages.charter.net/birdbats/Birdbats/Bat%20ID/LS%201950-1979.htm


Scott,

Did you find out the length and weight of this bat. If it matches Aaron's HB factory records and is a bat he order in 76 and with the "Powerized" stamp would make it a rare variation.

[jetersbatboy]

I think it was 35" inch long, but I'll re-email him and double check.

[jetersbatboy]

Hanks Order records point to a order of light flame 33.5 ounce 35" long, and a order of 32.5 ounce and 35 long, I think of natrual.

[33bird]

Guys Powerized with the Bicentennial stamp is not a problem. I have a Bench that has both. I've seen a Rose that has both. There are others out there too. There's bats made in 1976 that didn't even have the bicentennial stamp because some players didn't like them. I've verified this a few years ago with some of the top bat experts including Dave Grob. Here's a photo of the Bench 76 and the Rose 76.

[metsbats]

Thanks Greg!

[33bird]

I'd just make sure it's not a team index bat. I just bought a Joe Morgan 76 bat and it ended up being an index bat.

[ironmanfan]

Interesting discussion, I have five 1976 BiCentennial Orioles bats (Brooks, Grich, Blair & Singleton) in my collection (including this recently acquired Mark Belanger) and upon checking, I noted that none of them have the "powerized" marking:

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k172/whhp72/Game%20Used/DSC01218.jpg

[ironmanfan]

I'd be curious to see any "common" player bats from 1976 WITH the Powerized marking

[33bird]

No-for sure it's a rare thing, but they are out there. I've really only kept track of the 76 Reds bats because that's what I collect, but I will keep my eyes open for others now too. I know I talked to a noted bat expert a little while ago, before purchasing my 76 Bench, and he said it wouldn't be an issue with him at all.

[bigklu18]

I have a black Bicentennial Bench with powerized and the bell on it. Is that a rare bat also ? I have never been able to find out anything about it.

[5kRunner]

I'd be curious to see any "common" player bats from 1976 WITH the Powerized marking

Exactly what I was thinking.

[MSpecht]

Here is a quick informal (and incomplete) survey---

Of approximately 70 authentications of 1976 H & B Bicentennial bats, including approximately 15 Hall of Fame bats and 55 non-HOF bats (stars and common players), 69 had the Bicentennial Logo without 'Powerized' between the Center Brand and the logo. Only one had the combination of the word 'Powerized' and the Bicentennial logo. That bat was manufactured for N Y Yankees outfielder Roy White in August or September of 1976. There were no special instructions in his ordering records regarding and branding. White would appear to be the 'common player' that provides an example of this branding.

Note to Big Klu -- Bench's records do not show any orders of Black finished bats in 1976. On a single order dated 8/17/76 however, 12 bats model A99C are documented with a hickory finish, which can sometimes appear to be a black finish. Those bats are documented as 35 1/2 inches / 33 oz. No special instructions as to branding appear in Bench's records during 1976.

Mike jackitout7@aol.com

[33bird]

Thanks Mike. Backs up what I said. They are out there, including some commons too. Obviously, it's not a common thing, but it happened. I would assume it would have happened earlier in the 1976 season during the adjustment period between 1975 and 1976, but who knows. I also think that not too many people have been checking or noticing that POWERIZED thing on 1976 bats that show up on ebay or in auction houses. I'll be paying closer attention now too, and try to find more examples.

[Trublubrucru]

In a Milwaukee Journal article June 5, 2007, The owner of Hank Aaron's bat from his 755th home run is pictured with the bat and there is no Powerized.

[33bird]

Yea, good luck finding a photo with powerized and the bell on it. That would very difficult to find.

[earlywynnfan]

Little late to the game, but the only 1976 bat I have is a Billy Williams model, and it has NO powerized.

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

[33bird]

Some of you guys are missing the point here: He said one out of 70 something bats that have been authenticated by them had both the bell and the Powerized. So the chances of your bat having both is about 1 out of 75 or there abouts. I have 8 1976 bats-one of my bats has both. See what I mean?

[soxbats]

Mike, thanks for the great info, it is this kind of discussion that makes the board worthwhile. Before anyone suggests I am missing the point, I in no way mean to suggest that any bicentennial bat with the powerized logo is not authentic, I have handled enough vintage bats to know that there is no such thing as a labeling "rule."

Just to add my two cents, I am not sure that I would call Roy White a "common" player. He was a two time all star and, interstingly, he played on the 1976 Yanks who we all know played in the World Series that year and were swept by the Reds. It would be helpful to know if the catalogued White bat showed any use. Also, to the extent that bat experts have been opining about this trend, it would be helpful to know what the basis for their opinion was.

Were there a set of replica bats for the world series teams created? Did certain players think the bicentennial logo brought good luck and ask for it to be branded on bats in 77? Did players feel superstitious and ask for powerized to be added in 76? Did H&B want to protect the value of their trademarked word "Powerized" and decided to add it at some point in the season? Was this a playoff variation unique to the Reds and Yankees? Who knows, and that is the beauty of bat collecting.

To the extent we are collecting data on bicentennial labeling, I have handled several and never seen the "powerized" logo. I currently have bats for these absolute commons: Andy Merchant, Jack Baker and Ernie Whitt, none bearing the Powerized logo. Also, I note that Mears auctioned a super group of Reds 1976 Bats, none of which have Powerized (I don't know if these were in Mike's survey info).

I looked at my red sox 1977 yearbook and saw no examples with Powerized, (but that might have been affected by my drooling over the thought of having all those bats!). And Getty showed a few 76 H&B's (including Roy White) with no obvious evidence of Powerized.

Finally, a (very quick) trip through the topps 1977 set in the topps book showed 12 bicentennial bats by my eye, with no powerized.

However, if you look at www.MickeyRivers.com (http://www.MickeyRivers.com) There is a picture of his 1976 All Star Game commemorative bat which has both Powerized and the Bicentennial logo so they knew how to load both dies in by the midsummer classic.

soxbats@aol.com
looking for obscure red sox bats from the 60's . . . Help!

[012562]

Jeff, great post. I agree, this is an interesting topic.

I started collecting bats in 1975, and probably have 15 or so Angels bats put away in storage with the bell symbol. Unfortunately, they are not accessible to check. Certainly, any Angels from 1976 would not qualify as stars unless there was a Nolan Ryan or Frank Tanana or Bobby Bonds bat (I have Bonds, and know there have been a few of his in the market). From recollection, I cannot ever recall seeing any with the Powerized on them along with the bell. My eyes are certainly opened now to check these when I might eventually unearth the bell symbol bats.

I think John Taube has a large collection of the bell symbol bats. Maybe somebody could persuade him to have a close look.

At one time I had a used Rod Carew All Star Game bat from Philadelphia in 1976 that had the bell symbol. Again, I cannot recall that bat having the Powerized.

Back to Nolan Ryan for a moment. I have some photos of Ryan taking batting practice in 1976 while wearing shorts and swinging a bell symbol bat. He must have been taking some cuts during early BP since he does not have on a jersey. Unfortunately, I cannot tell if the bat is a Nolan Ryan model or not from the photos. I have never seen a Ryan bell symbol bat, although I have seen a Ryan bat with the 1977-1979 labeling.

On a related subject to the 1976 bats, I have often wondered about the small dash between the GENUINE and the bat model number on the barrel of the bell symbol bats. I only recalling seeing that in 1976, and then again on a very few of what I think were 1977 bats. Does anybody know any details behind the use of this small dash? I don't know that I have seen that issue discussed or documented previously.

Tom Duino

[metsbats]

Tom,

I've reached out to John via an email regarding his take and experiences with this 76 BiCent variation.

[ironmanfan]

Some of you guys are missing the point here: He said one out of 70 something bats that have been authenticated by them had both the bell and the Powerized. So the chances of your bat having both is about 1 out of 75 or there abouts. I have 8 1976 bats-one of my bats has both. See what I mean?

I'm not statistician, but I know you can't say that the chances are 1 in 75 based on just that. In other words, if I add the five BiCentennial Orioles bats I have and the Rick Dempsey that is on eBay currently, the odds are "now" 1 in 81??

I would need to see photographic evidence of a star player having both..

I'm interested to see if we can get more information from Taube....

[33bird]

What you guys are forgetting too-is if it has the powerized and the bell-that's only part of it. Does it match his factory ordering records and the player's use characteristics too? I know on my Bench it matches his facotry ordering records perfectly. 35.5 inches and 32.5 ounces. B278 cupped. I believe he ordered about 50 of those that season. Does it have the 12 inches of pine tar on the handle Bench usually had? Yea, great pine tar. Does it have ball marks, red bat rack streaks, cleat marks, etc.? Yes to all. It even has #5 written in red pen-like the Reds used sometimes in the mid-70s. Got to look at the whole bat fellas. Again I've seen enough Bench bats to know it's a great gamer and the Powerized and the bell doesn't bug me at all. I know some collectors can't get past something that might be slightly different than the norm, or what is generally accepted in the hobby, but like Dave Grob says,"Don't be afraid to rethink your thinking." Obviously it's a rare thing to have both, but we've barely started looking and we already got photo evidence of a Aaron, bench, Rose, and White. And all 4 bats match their factory ordering records. Now that we're looking for those things on the 76 bats, I'm sure that we will find some more too. I'll contact Dave Grob and Zane Burns too and see what they've have seen too.

[33bird]

Ironman-I'm not a statitician either-but Mike says out of their 70 bats-one had both. I have 8 76 bats and one has it. So 2 out of 78. Some others posted after that, so that skewed the numbers some. I'm just guessing the average % by what people have posted. Take Care.

[33bird]

Just got emails back from Zane and Dave Grob. Both have seen them. Zane says he has seen several over the years. Dave sent me a photo of the 76 Roy White (good but not a superstar player). Also, notice the Reds picture from 1976. Rose with his Adirondack, Morgan with his bicentennial, and Bench with a 1976 bat with NO BELL. It's a 76 bat because it has the model on the barrell. That's all I'm trying to say-nothing is 100% in this hobby. Half you guys would freak out and yell fraud if I told ya Bench gave me that bat pictured in the 1976 and I tried to sell it as a 1976 bat. You say,"It can't be-it doesn't have the bell!" Well, photos don't lie fellas. As I slowly find more 76 bats with both or other variations I'll post them on here for all the doubters. Here's the pic's Grob sent me.
I remember Zane also had a Tony Perez 1976 bat with no bell-right from the Reds gift shop with 1976 date on it. That's another variation. I'll see if Zane still has a picture of it.

[jbsportstuff]

You do have to be careful when collecting 76 Reds bats of the stars. The gift shop sold these with the centennial and all the right markings....however weight/length wouldn't match the shipping orders.

[33bird]

Dave Grob just posted a little news article on this subject today on Mears. Check it out:
www.mearsonline.com/news (http://www.mearsonline.com/news)

[MSpecht]

Just a quick follow-up with random thoughts:

I did not mean to imply that the % of "Powerized and Bicentennial Logo' dual branded bats was 1 out of 75. I just noted that I only came across one in the quick research of about 75 bats that was quickly done. I think that the true percentage is much much less than that, and that the dual branding variation on non-commemorative H & B professional model players bats is very rarely seen.... Some of the earliest research on game used bats was done by Mike Montbriand, who wrote a series of articles related to the bat collecting hobby for SCDin the early 1990's. In his SCD article of 6/1/1990 it is clear that Mike, who had amassed a pretty large collection by that time, and did some solid research, was unfamiliar with the dual stamping of Bicentennial bats. As Dave Grob points out, however, 'never say never,' and the current research supports Dave G's stance.

Also, apologies for my loose use of the term 'common player' when mentioning the Roy White bat. My reference was only that, if thought was being given to the possibility that only certain "high profile" players possibly had some type of commemorative set of bats produced with dual branding in 1976, it is not likely, in my opinion, that Roy White would have been included.

Finally, in finding another source of approximately 20 images of 1976 Bicentennial bats, none featured the dual branding ( no, I am not saying that the percentage now is 1 in every 95 bats). I also recall seeing instances in the H & B order records where certain players requested "no Bicentennial logo" on their bats, but I don't recall any notations of "add Powerized brand" in any players records.

Mike

[33bird]

Mike-I agree with ya. The % was just a guess from what numbers were being thrown out. I think it's a rare thing too, to have both the bell and powerized. I'm sure we'll come across some more as time goes on though. Thanks for your help. Thanks to Dave Grob and Zane Burns too.

[ironmanfan]

Good Stuff....I really never took notice that the 1976 bats didn't use the Powerized branding until recently...

It's just always curious (to me anyway) when the variations seem to be skewed towards the star players (i.e. Aaron, Bench, Rose, etc.)..

I'll certainly follow this variation much closer now and will report should I find anything that could be useful.

Thanks

[sayhey24]

I took this photo earlier this week when there were only a few posts -- even though it's been well established that most Bicentennial models don't have the Powerized branding, I didn't want my brilliant photography to go to waste, so I thought I'd show it anyway.

A poster earlier today made a very good point about 1976 Reds bats -- it's always been known the Reds ordered game bats that year specifically to sell in their gift shop, so it's wise to be very careful when purchasing any Reds game bats from that year.

Greg

[33bird]

Wow-sayhey-great bats. Yea, the Reds Gift Shop did sell some-but they are very easy to distinguish from the real ones, unless you are a serious rookie!

[MSpecht]

Just to add to the interesting aspects of this thread a little bit... the photo of the Rose 'double branded' R195 bat in post # 8 above does not appear to be documented / supported in Rose's H & B records, as his only two orders of that model in 1976 are documented as having a Galen finish. Also, here's a photo of Johnny Bench in 1976 with a Bicentennial bat (no powerized) that appears to be a model Mc44, which is only documented as ordered once on 3/23/76 ---however it also appears to have a cupped end, which is not noted in his H& B records. The model could possibly be A99, which he did order once in 1976 (cupped end on 8/17/76) but that order is documented as having a Hickory finish.

When all is said and done, I will always go with Dave Grob on all things Cincinnati, as he has researched Reds bats more than anyone I know.

Mike

[metsbats]

I got a response from John Taube and he concurs that the "Powerized" variation is rare. He will have to go into his database to get exact numbers he has handled over the years. That said he would really love to hear from anyone who has one (or more in Greg's case) so he can include them in his research database.