Game ball with "Provenance"

[NEFAN]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190360204261&ssPageName=ADME:X:AAQ:US:1123

The description says you will receive a copy of the letter from the player. I asked the seller if this was case and got this response.

Yes, that is right---I have couple of these balls but he only furnished one letter. Let me know if you have other questions. Have a good Christmas.

[tjm5711]

Man, if that's real it's a beauty ! I'm trying to learn as much about game used footballs as I can. It seems tough to establish their authenticity if they come from a secondary source(like Ebay). I'm hoping this thread will shed new light on this subject. There was just another posting a few days ago i learned a lot from.

[jdr3]

There is no way this ball was used during his career since he only played from '66-69. The big NFL logo was not used until 1976.

[tjm5711]

That sounds like very "iffy" provenance. Especially for something that old That would be something that would highly depend on how far it gets bid up to if I were going to buy it.

[cohibasmoker]

There is no way this ball was used during his career since he only played from '66-69. The big NFL logo was not used until 1976.

jdr3 - You are correct. From 66-69 the NFL used "The Duke" "Thorp" footballs. The labeling on the offered football looks to be late 1970's - 1980's era.

Just my opinion,

Jim

flaa1a@comcast.net

[tjm5711]

jdr3 - You are correct. From 66-69 the NFL used "The Duke" "Thorp" footballs. The labeling on the offered football looks to be late 1970's - 1980's era.

Just my opinion,

Jim

flaa1a@comcast.net

Now that's what I'm talking about ! That's awesome ! Definitely what this Forum is for. I can hope to learn a ton from posts like that. Thanks !

[David]

I've won group lots with one LOA for the entire lot. It was impossible to provide an original LOA for each item, and sometimes I have provided copies. However, if there was question, I would have no trouble proving I was the original winner of the auction lot, as I could show the receipt or have the auction house verify I was indeed the winner.

[NEFAN]

If the LOA covers a lot, then I would have no issue.

His LOA is written for a single item, and the item listed is not from the timeframe the player was in the NFL. I have pointed this fact out to the seller, he has not responded.

[David]

I agree that a Xerox copy of a single lot LOA, which I've seen more than once, makes one ponder.

[cohibasmoker]

I think this is the auction the football originated from. You guys decide.

Jim

http://www.huntauctions.com/LIVE/imageviewer_online.cfm?auction_num=36&lot_num=179&lot_qual=

[tjm5711]

I think this is the auction the football originated from. You guys decide.

Jim

http://www.huntauctions.com/LIVE/imageviewer_online.cfm?auction_num=36&lot_num=179&lot_qual=

It looks a lot like the ball in question indeed !

[TriplexXxSports]

Hunt has always seemed to be a reputable House. This makes me wonder a bit if anyone there actually took the time to research these items and comapare them to the said time frame.

If the earlier comments are true about these balls being from c. 70'-80's and not from c. 60's then there is a lot to be said about about the origin of these.

Why would a player write up a letter and 'authenticate' balls that were obviously not from the era stated?

Or, perhaps, someone at 1 time did get the actual balls along with the letter, keep them for themselves, buy a couple of footballs from a local flea market and use the letter to swindle a couple of bogus balls?

Either way, I would have thought that Hunt may have looked into this a bit. All it takes is a couple of minutes to search pics and stylematch the balls to the said time frame in the letter.

Interesting Indeed.

[TriplexXxSports]

Can anyone get a good photoshop close-up of the Hunt Listing and see which commissioners name is on the ball in the front - left hand side.

If you could get that name, that will tell the exact time frame these 5 balls are from.

[TriplexXxSports]

Here's a pic from the listing. Its as big as I could get it to post. Any thoughts on the Name?

.

[TriplexXxSports]

Here's a pic from the listing. Its as big as I could get it to post. Any thoughts on the Name?


Looks like we have a match although its a fairly large time frame that he was commissioner. This doesn't say much.......dang it.

Name: Alvin Ray Rozelle
Commissioner: 1960-1989
Born: March 1, 1926
Died: December 6, 1996
Occupations: Public Relations
Inducted in Hall of Fame: 1985

[TriplexXxSports]

I really need to get a life....lol. Here are pictures of the various models used and the timeline in which they were used. These are in order.

Wilson Remake of the Original - 1941-1970

Pete Rozelle Model - 1971-1989

Paul Tagliabue Model - 1990-2005

Current Model - 2006-Present.

Looks like our ball in question does indeed fit in the 1971-1989 timeline making it impossible to match the ball being sold to the original LOA dating the ball to the '60's.

Here's the images for comparison:

.

[cohibasmoker]

From 1941 through 1969, Duke footballs were used exclusively by the NFL. As the NFL Commissioners changed, so did the commissioner's name on the footballs.

1941 - 1946 - George Layden;
1947 - 1959 - Bert Bell;
1959 - 1987 - Pete Rozelle;

Through the years, there were other subtle changes as to what was actually printed on the ball. For example, for a three year stretch (1950-53) the balls had American and National Division on them. The league then merged and the balls had Eastern/Western Conference. They used natural color footballs, white footballs and even a yellow football.

Regardless of the variations in the labeling of the footballs, there are two things that are consistent with all of the footballs that were used by the NFL from 1941 through 1969, "The Duke" always appeared on one panel and "Thorp Sporting Goods" appeared on the other.

When the NFL merged with the AFL in 1970, the NFL used a one year style "Block labeled" ball. In 1971, the NFL switched over to the small NFL style of labeling.

Jim

flaa1a@comcast.net

[TriplexXxSports]

Jim, great info! I really do learn something new every day....

[Rob]

Jim,

In regards to the "Eagles" that is written on the ball, was that placed by the NFL for the game?


Happy New Year!



Rob

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=33273&stc=1&d=1262264476

[cohibasmoker]

Jim,

In regards to the "Eagles" that is written on the ball, was that placed by the NFL for the game?


Happy New Year!



Rob

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=33273&stc=1&d=1262264476

Rob - This football has quite a story to it. The Eagles had just completed a practice at the Vet in 1971. The last guy to leave was a place kicker who had just completed some practice kicks. After he was done, all of the footballs were collected except this football. It was left on the field lying between the pads and the field. No-one saw it except me. After everyone left, I walked over and just picked it up.

I kept it up and until the early 1980's. A collecting buddy kept bugging me for it until I finally relented and traded the football to him with the promise that when he decided to get rid of the football, I would get first dibs at it. As friendships usually go, we parted ways - part of the problem was he lived in Cleveland and I lived in New Joysey.

About two (2) years ago, I saw it on eBay. I could NOT believe my eyes. To make a long story short, I wanted it so bad that I waited until the last seconds to bid and my max bid was $500.00. As luck would have it, I got the football for less than $100.00.

So, it's back home and that is where its going to stay. The way you see it is the way it appeared in 1971. Who wrote "EAGLES" on the football? Probably Rusty Sweeney or one of his staff members.

Jim