PDA

View Full Version : OT: 30 for 30 on ESPN: "Without Bias"



Dewey2007
11-06-2009, 12:12 AM
I'm watching the ESPN show 30 for 30 "Without Bias" about the death of Len Bias and it its bringing back so many memories.

As a young sports fan at the time it happened this is probably the most tragic death of a player that I can remember. Probably because I was only 17 at the time when it happened and I followed the ACC pretty closely even though I lived in California. Even though he got drafted by the Celtics that didn't matter much because he was going to be the shit when he got to the NBA. I just wanted to see him play.

Anyhow, I know all of us have our own tragic sports memories that have left us shaking our heads and thinking of what could have been. This happened 23 years ago and it is still so vivid to me.

Damn shame...RIP Len

suicide_squeeze
11-06-2009, 12:20 AM
I'm watching the ESPN show 30 for 30 "Without Bias" about the death of Len Bias and it its bringing back so many memories.

As a young sports fan at the time it happened this is probably the most tragic death of a player that I can remember. Probably because I was only 17 at the time when it happened and I followed the ACC pretty closely even though I lived in California. Even though he got drafted by the Celtics that didn't matter much because he was going to be the shit when he got to the NBA. I just wanted to see him play.

Anyhow, I know all of us have our own tragic sports memories that have left us shaking our heads and thinking of what could have been. This happened 23 years ago and it is still so vivid to me.

Damn shame...RIP Len


Dewey,

Nothing personal at all, but I have a different opinion of this tragic event.



"Len Bias (http://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1379332/bio&ei=rLDzSsGBIorSsQOn-ogC&sa=X&oi=answers&ct=result&ved=0CAYQjQE&usg=AFQjCNEG1cu9GoPZ1sR7CaF1Og4eIu-3Bg) — Cause of Death: Heart failure, due to narcotic intoxication"

I'm sorry, but at any age and at any time in my life, I can think of one HELL of a lot more tragic deaths in sports than this guy.

Anyone who dies from a drug overdose, or any kind of complication from one, well.........I could care less. One less human being the world does not need around.

Yeah, he probably would've been great.......but does that really matter? He didn't have character strong enough to stay away from being a loser drug user??? When he had the world on a string? No, I'm sorry....no sympathy from me.

Care for yourselves, people.....don't be self-destructive. This world we live in will handle that objective fast enough.

ndevlin
11-06-2009, 12:42 AM
Dewey,

Nothing personal at all, but I have a different opinion of this tragic event.



"Len Bias (http://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1379332/bio&ei=rLDzSsGBIorSsQOn-ogC&sa=X&oi=answers&ct=result&ved=0CAYQjQE&usg=AFQjCNEG1cu9GoPZ1sR7CaF1Og4eIu-3Bg) — Cause of Death: Heart failure, due to narcotic intoxication"

I'm sorry, but at any age and at any time in my life, I can think of one HELL of a lot more tragic deaths in sports than this guy.

Anyone who dies from a drug overdose, or any kind of complication from one, well.........I could care less. One less human being the world does not need around.

Yeah, he probably would've been great.......but does that really matter? He didn't have character strong enough to stay away from being a loser drug user??? When he had the world on a string? No, I'm sorry....no sympathy from me.

Care for yourselves, people.....don't be self-destructive. This world we live in will handle that objective fast enough.


Seriously??? You're kidding right? Have you ever had a family member die, no matter what the cause was? Obviously not I guess.

Dewey2007
11-06-2009, 01:14 AM
Dewey,

Nothing personal at all, but I have a different opinion of this tragic event.



"Len Bias (http://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1379332/bio&ei=rLDzSsGBIorSsQOn-ogC&sa=X&oi=answers&ct=result&ved=0CAYQjQE&usg=AFQjCNEG1cu9GoPZ1sR7CaF1Og4eIu-3Bg) — Cause of Death: Heart failure, due to narcotic intoxication"

I'm sorry, but at any age and at any time in my life, I can think of one HELL of a lot more tragic deaths in sports than this guy.

Anyone who dies from a drug overdose, or any kind of complication from one, well.........I could care less. One less human being the world does not need around.

Yeah, he probably would've been great.......but does that really matter? He didn't have character strong enough to stay away from being a loser drug user??? When he had the world on a string? No, I'm sorry....no sympathy from me.

Care for yourselves, people.....don't be self-destructive. This world we live in will handle that objective fast enough.

Steve, you have pretty strong opinions so I'll just leave it at that. It's not how the man died that matters. How many of us were his age doing stupid things that could have killed us. I can look at something like this from a different viewpoint then you due to things I won't get into on here but anytime someone young dies like this it is very tragic. It's not like he was gang banging or drug dealing. He was just celebrating with his boys because he got drafted by the NBA champions and he died of drug complications. Sure he may have used drugs recreationly but he was no different then thousands of other college kids at the time. I just mentioned it because it was a sports related death of a great player and one that still resonates with me. I can say with pretty strong conviction that what happened to Len Bias kept me from ever wanting to use drugs.

Anyhow, that's enough out of me. Your opinions on this are different then mine and that's OK. Happy collecting!!

kudu
11-06-2009, 01:29 AM
Dewey,

Nothing personal at all, but I have a different opinion of this tragic event.



"Len Bias (http://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1379332/bio&ei=rLDzSsGBIorSsQOn-ogC&sa=X&oi=answers&ct=result&ved=0CAYQjQE&usg=AFQjCNEG1cu9GoPZ1sR7CaF1Og4eIu-3Bg) — Cause of Death: Heart failure, due to narcotic intoxication"

I'm sorry, but at any age and at any time in my life, I can think of one HELL of a lot more tragic deaths in sports than this guy.

Anyone who dies from a drug overdose, or any kind of complication from one, well.........I could care less. One less human being the world does not need around.

Yeah, he probably would've been great.......but does that really matter? He didn't have character strong enough to stay away from being a loser drug user??? When he had the world on a string? No, I'm sorry....no sympathy from me.

Care for yourselves, people.....don't be self-destructive. This world we live in will handle that objective fast enough.

Heartless comment. So young people should never have the chance for drug rehab and have a second chance at a drug free life? I guess the world doesnt need Josh Hamilton anymore. :rolleyes:

both-teams-played-hard
11-06-2009, 01:34 AM
I'm watching the ESPN show 30 for 30 "Without Bias" about the death of Len Bias and it its bringing back so many memories.

As a young sports fan at the time it happened this is probably the most tragic death of a player that I can remember. Probably because I was only 17 at the time when it happened and I followed the ACC pretty closely even though I lived in California. Even though he got drafted by the Celtics that didn't matter much because he was going to be the shit when he got to the NBA. I just wanted to see him play.

Anyhow, I know all of us have our own tragic sports memories that have left us shaking our heads and thinking of what could have been. This happened 23 years ago and it is still so vivid to me.

Damn shame...RIP Len
I agree 100%.
Forum member jdr3 knows I am a lifelong fan of ACC basketball, and he alerted me to this show a few days ago (thanks, Jim). This show brought back many bad memories of a true tragedy. When Len died, I was still a naive kid. This event was my first lesson in cynicism.

Here are two Maryland jerseys from the Bias era in my collection:
http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/3479/md1.jpghttp://img526.imageshack.us/img526/3343/md2e.jpg
Worn by Terry Long, who was with Bias when he died.

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/7200/terp23.jpg

Dewey2007
11-06-2009, 02:00 AM
I agree 100%.
Forum member jdr3 knows I am a lifelong fan of ACC basketball, and he alerted me to this show a few days ago (thanks, Jim). This show brought back many bad memories of a true tragedy. When Len died, I was still a naive kid. This event was my first lesson in cynicism.

Here are two Maryland jerseys from the Bias era in my collection:
http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/3479/md1.jpghttp://img526.imageshack.us/img526/3343/md2e.jpg
Worn by Terry Long, who was with Bias when he died.

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/7200/terp23.jpg

Warren, I've seen these Maryland pieces in your collection and they are very nice. I saw that Huggins & Scott has a Len Bias warm up jacket in their upcoming auction. Should be interesting to see what kind of price that gets.

It was cool seeing all of the old ACC game highlights they had in the show. Those brought back a lot of good memories!

allstarsplus
11-06-2009, 08:21 AM
I agree 100%.
Forum member jdr3 knows I am a lifelong fan of ACC basketball, and he alerted me to this show a few days ago (thanks, Jim). This show brought back many bad memories of a true tragedy. When Len died, I was still a naive kid. This event was my first lesson in cynicism.

Here are two Maryland jerseys from the Bias era in my collection:
http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/3479/md1.jpghttp://img526.imageshack.us/img526/3343/md2e.jpg
Worn by Terry Long, who was with Bias when he died.

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/7200/terp23.jpg

I graduated in the early 80's from University of Maryland and got to meet Len Bias and this was devastating for the Bias family, the school, and surrounding area as well as the Celtics that had just welcomed him as their future.

mbrieve
11-06-2009, 09:24 AM
The 30 for 30 documentary series on ESPN has been awesome. The subject matter has been great: Gretzky to the Kings, USFL, Ali vs. Holmes, Len Bias, etc. These are must see documentaries if you are a sports fan. A lot of these topics I was aware of, but really too young to have any kind of real knowledge of them. I would suggest catching these docs when they are on, very well done!!!

otismalibu
11-06-2009, 10:42 AM
The 30 for 30 documentary series on ESPN has been awesome. The subject matter has been great: Gretzky to the Kings, USFL, Ali vs. Holmes, Len Bias, etc.

Can one watch these online at ESPN?

Was hoping to catch the Terry Fox episode, but not even sure if it's been shown yet.

suicide_squeeze
11-06-2009, 11:04 AM
Seriously??? You're kidding right? Have you ever had a family member die, no matter what the cause was? Obviously not I guess.


You guys are a trip.

I used your quote, Nate, because you are the the latest and quickest to jump on me when I post. Whatever turns your screws, partner.

Look, where did I ever say a youth gone bad with drugs doesn't deserve a life after rehab??

All I am saying is that I am sick and tired of this liberal attitude, saturated in society, that is ruining the world we live in. And that's coming from a guy who is NOT that conservative. I am a middle of the roader.

But there is one thing I have NO patience for.....and that's weak individuals who are drug users. I mean, my GOD, that's like talking about drunk driving. It's 2009 people.....HELLO! If you haven't figured out drugs do damage and kill.....then you're not paying attention. They also cause shoplifting, ruin homes, families, turn users into murderers......and on and on and on.

Did I do recreational drugs when I was in high school. Yeah, I smoked some pot and drank at parties with my friends. Occasionally. But I was into my life, my girlfriend, my sports. I had a life. I wasn't about to "F" it up because some scumbag walked up to me at a party, who wanted me to become hooked on whatever he was selling so I would buy from him on a regular basis. I would just as soon enjoy watching that kind of a guy step off a curb in front of a RTD bus.....if you catch my drift.:rolleyes: Sorry, I was smarter than that.

But as I type this, I can honestly say that I have never done cocaine, or any of these other sick designer drugs. And I have absolutely NO sympathy for anyone who has died from choosing to put that crap in their body.

If you guys have a problem with that, then that's O.K. Nowhere did I ever say we had to agree on this. And I would never impose my will on anyone....except my kids. I won't let them kill themselves because of weak character. Or stupidity from being a drug-using scumbag.

Len Bias had the whole world....a guaranteed HUGE contract, and the NBA writers just waiting to write his life out. And he ended it because he was a drug user. If you guys can't see the problem with that, I can't help you. Was it tragic? Of course. Was it dignified? NO. It's the way LOSERS die.

Am I cold hearted? Not in the least. I just call the shots the way I see them. And even though I have no reason to apologize to any of you who see it differently, I will. I am sorry I share a different opinion on this than you do. But maybe if more of us felt the way I DO about it, and we cared more for eachother and didn't passively allow our children to participate in something as blatantly STUPID as putting powerful physiologically-altering and impairing DRUGS in their body for recreational stimulation......than we would have HAD Len Bias around for you all to enjoy.

The guy didn't have enough in life to look forward to, so he took drugs??? And DIED?

And I'm a cold hearted SOB???

Wow.

You guys need to maybe take a bit of inventory in your own lives. Sounds like a few of you have been fortunate enough to dodge a few bullets on your way to growing up. Congrats.

Now go look after your children. You never know when the next Len Bias may emerge.

kingjammy24
11-06-2009, 11:11 AM
currently up for auction. i don't know if its real or not.

http://www.hugginsandscott.com/cgi-bin/showitem.pl?itemid=16605

rudy.

mbrieve
11-06-2009, 12:04 PM
Can one watch these online at ESPN?

Was hoping to catch the Terry Fox episode, but not even sure if it's been shown yet.
I'm not sure where or if you can watch these online, but here is the schedule: http://30for30.espn.com/

emann
11-06-2009, 01:56 PM
I'm not sure where or if you can watch these online, but here is the schedule: http://30for30.espn.com/

Thanks for posting the schedule, missed Bias, want to DVR it. Saw the Ali one and it was excellent. The footage they're getting is amazing...

And, without getting too involved: Growing up in Mass and being a kid when he died, Bias was definitely a tragic figure. He was seen as the great hope for the Celtics, the one who would lead them on into the '90s... A big part of the tragedy was the shock of going to bed excited one night that he was coming to Boston and wake up two days later to hear he was dead. I was 10, a big Celtics fan, and it rocked my world. Certainly the most shocking sports death in Mass, ironically followed closely by Reggie Lewis' death in 1993. From my POV, both of those deaths are the ones I remember the most in sports since I was in the community affected by them at the time.

mbrieve
11-06-2009, 02:12 PM
Thanks for posting the schedule, missed Bias, want to DVR it. Saw the Ali one and it was excellent. The footage they're getting is amazing...

And, without getting too involved: Growing up in Mass and being a kid when he died, Bias was definitely a tragic figure. He was seen as the great hope for the Celtics, the one who would lead them on into the '90s... A big part of the tragedy was the shock of going to bed excited one night that he was coming to Boston and wake up two days later to hear he was dead. I was 10, a big Celtics fan, and it rocked my world. Certainly the most shocking sports death in Mass, ironically followed closely by Reggie Lewis' death in 1993. From my POV, both of those deaths are the ones I remember the most in sports since I was in the community affected by them at the time.
I just checked my local television schedule and the Len Bias episode replays at these times:

Sunday, November 8 at 9pm on ESPN Classic
Monday, November 9 at 7pm on ESPN2

Dewey2007
11-06-2009, 02:13 PM
The 30 for 30 documentary series on ESPN has been awesome. The subject matter has been great: Gretzky to the Kings, USFL, Ali vs. Holmes, Len Bias, etc. These are must see documentaries if you are a sports fan. A lot of these topics I was aware of, but really too young to have any kind of real knowledge of them. I would suggest catching these docs when they are on, very well done!!!

I agree. I watched the Ali/Holmes one as well last night and it was great. The footage they had was amazing. I'm definitely looking forward to more of the 30 for 30 series.

bigtruck260
11-06-2009, 06:24 PM
GREAT piece on Len Bias.

I was 11 when Bias died and it was a talking point for parents and teachers alike. By all accounts, he was a terrific kid outside of being the best basketball player in the country at the time (even in some eyes better than Jordan).

Some guys have one night stands and get AIDS, some drink and drive...and some smoke rocks. Bias was really just a young naive kid who made some terrible decisions.

His legacy is that coaches across the country STILL talk about Len Bias and what could have been...it's a valuable 'real life' lesson for all kids and some adults.

I was nearly in tears when his best friends spoke about him.

both-teams-played-hard
11-06-2009, 06:48 PM
GREAT piece on Len Bias.

I was 11 when Bias died and it was a talking point for parents and teachers alike. By all accounts, he was a terrific kid outside of being the best basketball player in the country at the time (even in some eyes better than Jordan).

Some guys have one night stands and get AIDS, some drink and drive...and some smoke rocks. Bias was really just a young naive kid who made some terrible decisions.

His legacy is that coaches across the country STILL talk about Len Bias and what could have been...it's a valuable 'real life' lesson for all kids and some adults.

I was nearly in tears when his best friends spoke about him.
Dave gets it...

suicide_squeeze
11-06-2009, 06:55 PM
GREAT piece on Len Bias.

I was 11 when Bias died and it was a talking point for parents and teachers alike. By all accounts, he was a terrific kid outside of being the best basketball player in the country at the time (even in some eyes better than Jordan).

Some guys have one night stands and get AIDS, some drink and drive...and some smoke rocks. Bias was really just a young naive kid who made some terrible decisions.

His legacy is that coaches across the country STILL talk about Len Bias and what could have been...it's a valuable 'real life' lesson for all kids and some adults.

I was nearly in tears when his best friends spoke about him.


Thanks for a sensible and well expressed post. And you hit the nail on the head.....it was a painful "life lesson".

But how many "life Lessons" do we all need to be exposed to OVER and OVER and OVER again before the words get through?

Here ya go, people.....coming from the evil bad heartless duschebag drama queen (what have I forgotten...http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/39.gif......) forum member....

IF you WANT TO DO DRUGS........it will ALL END BADLY. You will join the ranks of http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/30.gif somewhere along the line, and lose everything, maybe even your LIFE.



Now, Nate......where's the bong party tonight? I'll bring the lighter.....http://www.barbandgreg.com/images/Emoticons/bong2.gif

frikativ54
11-06-2009, 07:57 PM
Anyone who dies from a drug overdose, or any kind of complication from one, well.........I could care less. One less human being the world does not need around.

Yeah, he probably would've been great.......but does that really matter? He didn't have character strong enough to stay away from being a loser drug user??? When he had the world on a string? No, I'm sorry....no sympathy from me.

It's genetics, not character, that determines drug use/abuse. Talk to former addicts and you will find out. Many are good people that did things that led to horrible outcomes. I always feel badly when people die...even if it's due to drugs.

frikativ54
11-06-2009, 08:07 PM
All I am saying is that I am sick and tired of this liberal attitude, saturated in society, that is ruining the world we live in. And that's coming from a guy who is NOT that conservative. I am a middle of the roader.



You're not that conservative?!?! :rolleyes: :eek:

both-teams-played-hard
11-06-2009, 08:08 PM
http://www.barbandgreg.com/images/Emoticons/bong2.gif
Best emoticon. Ever

suicide_squeeze
11-06-2009, 08:24 PM
It's genetics, not character, that determines drug use/abuse. Talk to former addicts and you will find out. Many are good people that did things that led to horrible outcomes. I always feel badly when people die...even if it's due to drugs.


I do too. I feel badly. I really do.

But I can't find myself asking "Why?" Or thinking how tragic it was.....how unbelievable it must be for the family.....how terrible it is for the fans who lost a star.......when that person of interest took drugs which caused the disaster.

It's old news. Figure it OUT already. Drugs kill users, not "genetics". Len Bias' heart didn't stop because of "genetics".

Just like accidents kill. Not lack of "warning labels". Somewhere in time we lost our strength as a society to accept the pitfalls in life, and we started turning our sorrows to expensive attorneys who have f'ed up our entire existences. We have sacrificed "responsibility" with "judgements". Great. Nice.

And you all wonder why paying for insurance has become burdensome?

Figure it out, society, before it's too late. It's old already.

frikativ54
11-06-2009, 08:38 PM
It's old news. Figure it OUT already. Drugs kill users, not "genetics". Len Bias' heart didn't stop because of "genetics".

Just like accidents kill. Not lack of "warning labels". Somewhere in time we lost our strength as a society to accept the pitfalls in life, and we started turning our sorrows to expensive attorneys who have f'ed up our entire existences. We have sacrificed "responsibility" with "judgements". Great. Nice.[/quote]

Why does everything need to be about a nebulous notion of responsibility? For me, rather than judging people, it makes more sense to ask why this is happening, and realize that complex factors lead to drug use and abuse. As you may or may not realize, addiction has a biological basis.

That's not to say that there aren't other factors involved. Societal attitudes toward drugs play a part in this, as do people's past history of addiction and mental illness. You keep clinging to concepts like "responsibility", yet you have not explained why we have the kind of agency that your notion of responsibility is predicated upon.


And you all wonder why paying for insurance has become burdensome?

Figure it out, society, before it's too late. It's old already.

I don't see any evidence that society is going to hell. Things are just fine in America.

frikativ54
11-06-2009, 08:39 PM
It's old news. Figure it OUT already. Drugs kill users, not "genetics". Len Bias' heart didn't stop because of "genetics".

Just like accidents kill. Not lack of "warning labels". Somewhere in time we lost our strength as a society to accept the pitfalls in life, and we started turning our sorrows to expensive attorneys who have f'ed up our entire existences. We have sacrificed "responsibility" with "judgements". Great. Nice.

Why does everything need to be about a nebulous notion of responsibility? For me, rather than judging people, it makes more sense to ask why this is happening, and realize that complex factors lead to drug use and abuse. As you may or may not realize, addiction has a biological basis.

That's not to say that there aren't other factors involved. Societal attitudes toward drugs play a part in this, as do people's past history of addiction and mental illness. You keep clinging to concepts like "responsibility", yet you have not explained why we have the kind of agency that your notion of responsibility is predicated upon.


And you all wonder why paying for insurance has become burdensome?

Figure it out, society, before it's too late. It's old already.

I don't see any evidence that society is going to hell. Things are just fine in America.

suicide_squeeze
11-06-2009, 11:59 PM
Why does everything need to be about a nebulous notion of responsibility? For me, rather than judging people, it makes more sense to ask why this is happening, and realize that complex factors lead to drug use and abuse. As you may or may not realize, addiction has a biological basis.

That's not to say that there aren't other factors involved. Societal attitudes toward drugs play a part in this, as do people's past history of addiction and mental illness. You keep clinging to concepts like "responsibility", yet you have not explained why we have the kind of agency that your notion of responsibility is predicated upon.



I don't see any evidence that society is going to hell. Things are just fine in America.


I need a drink.

No.......several http://www.yahoofreak.com/animated%20emoticons/Funny%20Animated%20Emoticons/drunk.gif

frikativ54
11-07-2009, 12:13 AM
I need a drink.

No.......several http://www.yahoofreak.com/animated%20emoticons/Funny%20Animated%20Emoticons/drunk.gif

You're ignoring my points and assuming that concepts like responsibility are a given. They are not. For the amount of Frik-bashing you do, I would think that you would have composed an intelligent response to my question.

Your modus operandi is to call me stupid, say I am impervious to ratiocination, etc. Yet you have shown little capacity to respond seriously to a thing I am saying. Instead of just spewing about how the world is going to hell, present a cogent argument. It's not too much to ask.

suicide_squeeze
11-07-2009, 12:29 AM
You're ignoring my points and assuming that concepts like responsibility are a given. They are not. For the amount of Frik-bashing you do, I would think that you would have composed an intelligent response to my question.

Your modus operandi is to call me stupid, say I am impervious to ratiocination, etc. Yet you have shown little capacity to respond seriously to a thing I am saying. Instead of just spewing about how the world is going to hell, present a cogent argument. It's not too much to ask.

The Louisville Slugger jury verdict rendering, the shootings which are becoming a daily occurance, the political environment, the wars, and your reasoning ability have all proved my point. What left is there to argue?

How can I present an "argument" when I have no idea what the hell you are talking about? What "agency" is it you keep referring to? I mean, please, let's just forget the whole thing.

Tim Lincecum is a great guy, OK? Enjoy the squirrel.

frikativ54
11-07-2009, 12:52 AM
How can I present an "argument" when I have no idea what the hell you are talking about? What "agency" is it you keep referring to? I mean, please, let's just forget the whole thing.

Wikipedia is your friend.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agency_%28philosophy%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structure_and_agency

earlywynnfan
11-07-2009, 12:11 PM
Thanks for a sensible and well expressed post. And you hit the nail on the head.....it was a painful "life lesson".

But how many "life Lessons" do we all need to be exposed to OVER and OVER and OVER again before the words get through?

Here ya go, people.....coming from the evil bad heartless duschebag drama queen (what have I forgotten...http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/39.gif......) forum member....

IF you WANT TO DO DRUGS........it will ALL END BADLY. You will join the ranks of http://l.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/30.gif somewhere along the line, and lose everything, maybe even your LIFE.






Now, Nate......where's the bong party tonight? I'll bring the lighter.....http://www.barbandgreg.com/images/Emoticons/bong2.gif



HEY MODS!! Why was my post removed, when ones like this remain?? I have been a long-time member of this forum, outlasting everybody who was here when I first came on, so I think I deserve an explanation: In what way does this post support the purpose of the forum? Why is Squeeze any different from Joel Alpert? Oh, wait, you guys wouldn't do anything to him when he repeatedly broke rules, either.

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

jdr3
11-07-2009, 01:06 PM
I heard that as soon as the news that Bias was dead was announced the equiment manager took all his stuff and locked it away. I saw Adrieane Branch in a local food store about 5 years ago. I went running up to him and offered him $200 for one of his gold Maryland gamers. He took my number and was very friendly, but I never heard from him. The Bias warm up that is in Huggins and Scott is from his senior season, and from the photos on the web site looks real.

suicide_squeeze
11-07-2009, 01:17 PM
HEY MODS!! Why was my post removed, when ones like this remain?? I have been a long-time member of this forum, outlasting everybody who was here when I first came on, so I think I deserve an explanation: In what way does this post support the purpose of the forum? Why is Squeeze any different from Joel Alpert? Oh, wait, you guys wouldn't do anything to him when he repeatedly broke rules, either.

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com


Because, Ken, mine are nothing more than attempts to make light of the rediculous posts that occur here in certain instances.

Yours, like a few others here, are mean-spirited and attacking....just like Joel's were but in a differnt vein. He would always try to find an argument even when he was obviously just taking the wrong side of reality to argue. He was a pain in the ass, rediculously presenting an argument for the "violator", if you will.

I try to instill common sense in people, especially when it relates to game used memorabilia. From the start of my days on the forum, I have found myself taking on the deceiving misrepresenting word-mincing borderline-criminal less-than-professional-and-friendly auction houses, and then had to endure the second wave from my fan club here.

So get a tissue and wipe away your tears, Ken. It's time to grow up a bit and understand that we all have a right to air out our opinions. But the message from the top is clear; If you want to cause problems, you will be squashed.

both-teams-played-hard
11-07-2009, 04:39 PM
In this program, there is a great shot of Bias and his teammates wearing the same style warm-up that I have. If anyone has the capabilities, I would appreciate a screen-shot (it appears close to the beginning of the show). You will make a new friend!
http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/7200/terp23.jpg
It also appears this team photo is from an early 80s Maryland media guide or basketball yearbook. Does anyone have a collection of media guides from this era? Again, sincere thanks for any efforts.

b-t-p-h@earthlink.net

frikativ54
11-07-2009, 05:12 PM
[Joel] would always try to find an argument even when he was obviously just taking the wrong side of reality to argue. He was a pain in the ass, rediculously presenting an argument for the "violator", if you will.

I try to instill common sense in people, especially when it relates to game used memorabilia.

Once again, the cogency of your posts is predicated upon perceiving the world as you do. Using such loaded terms like "reality" and "common sense", you assume that your worldview embodies what is objectively real and apparent to all.

If we can even assume that your opinions embody "common sense", I would argue that such explanations are not a given. Every time I have brought the matter up, you ignore me. This leads me to wonder - can you form a convincing argument, or do you have any desire to do as such?

Or are you so convinced of the truth of your opinions that you don't feel the need to defend them? Last night, I asked you to convince me of your supposedly "common sense" notion of "responsibility". You never put forward an honest effort; instead you call me stupid.

I am left to wonder: if not to convince others, why do you post? Even after I have challenged your notions of "responsibility" and "common sense", you still spew similar rhetoric, as if I never said anything. This is not talk radio; it's civil conversation.

It's one thing to have strong opinions. I do myself, on certain topics. However, when I am asked to provide reasons for my beliefs, I can and do explain why I think the way I do. I have asked you numerous times to rethink your ideas of what "common sense" and "responsibility" are.

You don't have to agree with me. But in the interest of having a fair discussion about such topics, you need to at least consider what I have to say. So far - all you have done is repeat yourself, while attacking others. That's no way to convince anybody.

cigarman44
11-07-2009, 05:30 PM
Once again, the cogency of your posts is predicated upon perceiving the world as you do. Using such loaded terms like "reality" and "common sense", you assume that your worldview embodies what is objectively real and apparent to all.

If we can even assume that your opinions embody "common sense", I would argue that such explanations are not a given. Every time I have brought the matter up, you ignore me. This leads me to wonder - can you form a convincing argument, or do you have any desire to do as such?

Or are you so convinced of the truth of your opinions that you don't feel the need to defend them? Last night, I asked you to convince me of your supposedly "common sense" notion of "responsibility". You never put forward an honest effort; instead you call me stupid.

I am left to wonder: if not to convince others, why do you post? Even after I have challenged your notions of "responsibility" and "common sense", you still spew similar rhetoric, as if I never said anything. This is not talk radio; it's civil conversation.

It's one thing to have strong opinions. I do myself, on certain topics. However, when I am asked to provide reasons for my beliefs, I can and do explain why I think the way I do. I have asked you numerous times to rethink your ideas of what "common sense" and "responsibility" are.

You don't have to agree with me. But in the interest of having a fair discussion about such topics, you need to at least consider what I have to say. So far - all you have done is repeat yourself, while attacking others. That's no way to convince anybody.


Just block him, you'll feel much better. I already do...

suicide_squeeze
11-07-2009, 05:59 PM
Once again, the cogency of your posts is predicated upon perceiving the world as you do. Using such loaded terms like "reality" and "common sense", you assume that your worldview embodies what is objectively real and apparent to all.

Frik, "reality" is nothing close to a loaded term. It means one thing, and one thing only: It refers to what is REAL. Tangible. Something you can place your hand or eyes on.

"Common sense" refers to having the ability to see, to reason, to the level of what an average person should display when faced with a similar task. It is not up to me OR you to determine what level of common sense we possess. It is determined by lifes little lessons. I'll leave the rest for you to discover.

If we can even assume that your opinions embody "common sense", I would argue that such explanations are not a given. Every time I have brought the matter up, you ignore me. This leads me to wonder - can you form a convincing argument, or do you have any desire to do as such?

And I would argue that you, just making an argument that you question that I have common sense in my opinions, is a waste of time. Based on some of your previous posts, and conclusions you have shared with the forum, I feel confident enough to just leave it at that. You can have your opinions and disagree with me as much as you want.

Or are you so convinced of the truth of your opinions that you don't feel the need to defend them? Last night, I asked you to convince me of your supposedly "common sense" notion of "responsibility". You never put forward an honest effort; instead you call me stupid.

Yes, I am so convinced that my opinions are common sense based to the point I don't need to defend them. And based on YOUR perception of responsibilty in particular to the Louisville Slugger verdict spoken of here, I don't really desire to try to convince you of anything. It appears to me your perception of the reality of the world we live in is just too different.

I am left to wonder: if not to convince others, why do you post? Even after I have challenged your notions of "responsibility" and "common sense", you still spew similar rhetoric, as if I never said anything. This is not talk radio; it's civil conversation.

I am wondering the same thing. You can challenge whatever notions you want. But the bottom line is, frik, if you "don't get it", the you just DON'T GET IT. I am NOT going to argue a point that is OBVIOUS in general common sense on ANYONE'S level except maybe yours. I have found out that posting opinions or info here is pretty much a waste of time in general. I guess I keep coming back because there are some very good people here, and I am deeply rooted in the Game Used memorabilia collecting hobby. But I have to say, this has turned out to be closer to talk-show radio than it is to "civil conversation". I mean, I might as well be talking to one of those trailer-trash guests on the Jerry Springer show with the kind of "civil conversation" I get out of some here.

It's one thing to have strong opinions. I do myself, on certain topics. However, when I am asked to provide reasons for my beliefs, I can and do explain why I think the way I do. I have asked you numerous times to rethink your ideas of what "common sense" and "responsibility" are.

Why would I want to lower myself to a suggestion like that? Do you want me be accepting of gay marriage, even though I think they deserve the same rights as married couples? Do you want me to engage in conversations with convicted murderers via US mail? Do you want me to accept YOUR notion of reality as MY reality??? Um, NO THANKS. You continue to do as you see fit, and I'll continue to do as I do. We can still co-exist.

You don't have to agree with me. But in the interest of having a fair discussion about such topics, you need to at least consider what I have to say. So far - all you have done is repeat yourself, while attacking others. That's no way to convince anybody.

I just had a fair discussion, on your behalf and request. I didn't "attack".....I "commented". You don't need to be so harsh in your descriptions of YOUR perceptions. If calling Joel an asshole was an attack in your eyes, then so be it. In mine, I was accurate. He probably would even agree because he knew exactly what he was doing the whole time. He chose to be that way.

My last comment is simple: I am not trying to convince anybody of anything. People will draw their own conclusions on what is presented to them. I guess that's how we all determine what level of "common sense" an individual has, and by their ability is to absorb true REALITY when it presents itself. Based on their conclusions, everyone can make up their own mind who has common sense, and who doesn't. I, quite frankly, don't care enough to argue this point any longer.

suicide_squeeze
11-07-2009, 06:05 PM
Just block him, you'll feel much better. I already do...

Golly gee, lucky me. Another hack I've offended somewhere along the line.

Here ya go, cigarman......this one's for you, pal!

http://www.barbandgreg.com/images/Emoticons/tissue.gif

frikativ54
11-07-2009, 06:34 PM
Why would I want to lower myself to a suggestion like that?

Being able to rethink one's notions of common sense and responsibility is an important skill. I am not asking you to change your opinions; I just want you to comprehend where I'm coming from. Sitting down and taking the time to understand people might give you some more empathy. That way, you would be less apt to call people names.


Do you want me be accepting of gay marriage, even though I think they deserve the same rights as married couples?Of course. Equal rights without acceptance of the people that you are giving the rights to is simply not fair.


Do you want me to engage in conversations with convicted murderers via US mail?

Come on, do you seriously think that all I do is engage in conversations with convicted murderers? I have communicated with plenty of prisoners; a majority are not murderers. Not everybody who goes to prison has killed somebody. Even among those convicted of capital murder, there is a huge variation between those that kill in a fit of passion and those who are sociopaths who commit premeditated murder. There is simply no comparison.


Do you want me to accept YOUR notion of reality as MY reality??? Um, NO THANKS. You continue to do as you see fit, and I'll continue to do as I do. We can still co-exist.

I never asked you to accept my viewpoint on anything. All I wanted you to do is think twice before you use words like "common sense" and "responsibility". A lot of things that look to be common sense are really historically contingent or socially constructed. Things aren't as given as they may appear on the surface.