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View Full Version : OT: Best All Around Infield Ever



joelsabi
10-23-2009, 09:41 AM
When cano hit that triple and turned 2 double plays last night, i thought wow this could eventually be the best infield ever. Tex-Cano-Jeter-Arod.

Any other candidates beside the Perez - Morgan - Concepcion - Rose infield?

ironmanfan
10-23-2009, 10:00 AM
Brooks Robby/Belanger/D. Johnson or Grich/Powell

joelsabi
10-23-2009, 10:05 AM
Brooks Robby/Belanger/D. Johnson or Grich/Powell

how long did they play together?

im not counting the current yankee lineup since this their first year together as a unit.

suicide_squeeze
10-23-2009, 10:16 AM
Garvey, Lopes, Russell, Cey.....they were something special.

joelsabi
10-23-2009, 10:24 AM
Garvey, Lopes, Russell, Cey.....they were something special.

great choice.
who do you think is the weakest link in that infield?

Bondsgloves
10-23-2009, 10:48 AM
Infield Defensively.

1993 Giants

Matt Williams 3b (gold glove), Robby Thompson 2B(gold glove), Will Clark 1B (former gold glove winner), Kurt Manwaring catcher (gold glove), and Royce Clayton at SS

joelsabi
10-23-2009, 11:08 AM
Infield Defensively.

1993 Giants

Matt Williams 3b (gold glove), Robby Thompson 2B(gold glove), Will Clark 1B (former gold glove winner), Kurt Manwaring catcher (gold glove), and Royce Clayton at SS


interesting. does manwaring count? seems like catchers aren't counted in the equation even tho they are in the infield. from other posts, you'd have to add posada, bench, yeager, and dempster into the mix.

ironmanfan
10-23-2009, 11:09 AM
how long did they play together?

im not counting the current yankee lineup since this their first year together as a unit.

They played together approx. 8 years

3arod13
10-23-2009, 11:22 AM
Brooks Robby/Belanger/D. Johnson or Grich/Powell

Totally agree!

joelsabi
10-23-2009, 11:23 AM
They played together approx. 8 years

thats longevity there.

i cant help but notice your avatar pick. murray - burleson - ripken - knight is pretty solid defensely.

nomarmauerfan
10-23-2009, 12:04 PM
How about Rose, Trillo, Bowa, and Schmidt? They were my favorites in the late 70/s and the WS year of 1980. That was a heckuva infield. And, you could add Boone to it as well.

Mike

bigtruck260
10-23-2009, 01:06 PM
The mid 80's Cardinals might not have been the best ever, but they sure were an exciting bunch to watch.

Pendleton, Ozzie, Herr and Clark (Clark is the defensive exception because of the power he carried. He was Mac before McGwire was here)

shoremen44
10-23-2009, 01:21 PM
Statistically it is the 1999 Mets... fewest errors by an infield

1B - John Olerud
2B - Egardo Alphonzo
SS - Rey Ordonez
3B - Robin Ventura


But I have to agree with some of the others and go with the 1969 Orioles... they had the fewest error record... and just having Brooks at third I have to image he made some outs that if he didnt get to wouldnt go as errors, but hits

1B - Boog Powell
2B - Davey Johnson, Gold Glove
SS - Mark Belanger, Gold Glove
3B - Brooks Robinson, Gold Glove

sox83cubs84
10-23-2009, 01:27 PM
I won't go far as to say they were the best of all-time, but the late 1960s Cubs had a pretty talented bunch with Ron Santo (3B), Don Kessinger (SS), Glenn Beckert (2B) and Ernie Banks (1B). If you want to throw in the catcher, add Randy hundley, MLB recordholder for most games caught in a single season. He was THE iron man of post WW-2 catchers until his knees went bad.

Dave M.
Chicago area

cjclong
10-23-2009, 01:48 PM
One of the better ones was Moose Skowron, Bobby Richardson, Tony Kubek and Clete Boyer with the 1961 Yankees.

joelsabi
10-23-2009, 01:52 PM
Totally agree!

You guys sure know your baseball.

Three years in a row, 1973 to 1975, Grich, Robinson, and Belanger won golden gloves.

Twice Johnson, Robinson and Belanger won Golden Glove in the same year. Powell never won a Gold Glove but how tough can it be when Belanger and Robinson are throwing bullets at you.

If Cano wins a Golden Glove this year, then all four Yankee infielders have won the award at some point in their careers. Granted, Rodriguez has not done it at third base yet.

MUSEOVEN
10-23-2009, 02:01 PM
Cleveland Indians::)

Ss Omar Vizquel
2 Base Roberto Alomar
3 Base Travis Fryman
1 Base Jim Thome

joelsabi
10-23-2009, 02:07 PM
The mid 80's Cardinals might not have been the best ever, but they sure were an exciting bunch to watch.

Pendleton, Ozzie, Herr and Clark (Clark is the defensive exception because of the power he carried. He was Mac before McGwire was here)

Did Hernandez ever play togther with Pendleton and Ozzie?

joelsabi
10-23-2009, 02:09 PM
Cleveland Indians::)

Ss Omar Vizquel
2 Base Roberto Alomar
3 Base Travis Fryman
1 Base Jim Thome

Wow. Thats a good all around infield

suave1477
10-23-2009, 02:15 PM
Joelsabi I must say I am a bit surprised you would put Cano into that company of best ever. After all the big mistakes he was made.
As for the other 3 No Argument here.

I would throw into this category maybe not the best ever but pretty damn close
Moose Skowron - Tony Kubek - Bobby Richardson (Gold Glove) - Clete Boyer (Gold Glove)

LastingsMilledge85
10-23-2009, 02:18 PM
1999 Mets, there's no question.

joelsabi
10-23-2009, 02:25 PM
Joelsabi I must say I am a bit surprised you would put Cano into that company of best ever. After all the big mistakes he was made.
As for the other 3 No Argument here.

I would throw into this category maybe not the best ever but pretty damn close
Moose Skowron - Tony Kubek - Bobby Richardson (Gold Glove) - Clete Boyer (Gold Glove)

Orignally I was thinking both offense and defense, but I think the discussion where it has lead to defense prowess is more interesting so I am glad the direction the thread has gone. If I ever won the lotto, I would change my theme to collecting fielding glove from every player that won a Gold Glove.

There was talks of Cano maybe winning a Golden Glove earlier in the year but then again its the manager plugging his own player.

On your choice, I never seen them play. Need to check out a classic game by this unit.

joelsabi
10-23-2009, 02:29 PM
1999 Mets, there's no question.

Hernandez, Alfonso, Ordonez, and Ventura? Wow thats major big time Defense. Has Alfonso ever won a Gold Glove. Wasn't he originally a SS but theres no way to take the job from Ordonez.

b.heagy
10-23-2009, 02:55 PM
These are the saddest of possible words: "Tinker to Evers to Chance." Trio of bear cubs, and fleeter than birds, Tinker and Evers and Chance. Ruthlessly pricking our gonfalon bubble, Making a Giant hit into a double Words that are heavy with nothing but trouble: "Tinker to Evers to Chance."

joelsabi
10-23-2009, 03:03 PM
These are the saddest of possible words: "Tinker to Evers to Chance." Trio of bear cubs, and fleeter than birds, Tinker and Evers and Chance. Ruthlessly pricking our gonfalon bubble, Making a Giant hit into a double Words that are heavy with nothing but trouble: "Tinker to Evers to Chance."

Classic Baseball poem. If you ever read Smithsonian Baseball, the author has a chapter on his own collection which include the flannels of these three immortalized players.

bigtruck260
10-23-2009, 04:31 PM
Did Hernandez ever play togther with Pendleton and Ozzie?

Yep. Sorry - I never really think of Keith as being a Cardinal. I moved to STL in late 1983, and he made some comments after winning with the Mets in '86 that made me hate him as a player...Clark is the first guy I identify with in my personal Cards history.

LastingsMilledge85
10-23-2009, 05:31 PM
Yep. Sorry - I never really think of Keith as being a Cardinal. I moved to STL in late 1983, and he made some comments after winning with the Mets in '86 that made me hate him as a player...Clark is the first guy I identify with in my personal Cards history.

I think Keith considers himself a Cardinal, whenever he talks about his career or opinion on baseball teams, he always favors the Cradinals.

CollectGU
10-23-2009, 06:42 PM
Orignally I was thinking both offense and defense, but I think the discussion where it has lead to defense prowess is more interesting .


I like the original thread, best infied in terms of offense and defense. Current Yankees dwarf the 1999 Mets, just about as good defensively, and LIGHT YEARS ahead offensively...its not even close

sox83cubs84
10-23-2009, 06:52 PM
These are the saddest of possible words: "Tinker to Evers to Chance." Trio of bear cubs, and fleeter than birds, Tinker and Evers and Chance. Ruthlessly pricking our gonfalon bubble, Making a Giant hit into a double Words that are heavy with nothing but trouble: "Tinker to Evers to Chance."

Of course, Harry Steinfeldt was the third baseman (and only non-HOFer in the bunch).

Dave M.
Chicago area

metsbats
10-23-2009, 07:12 PM
From 1973-75 the Baltimore Orioles has Brooks Robinson, Mark Belanger, and Bobby Grich who all won Golden Gloves during those years.

nyjetsfan14
10-23-2009, 09:30 PM
I'll have to agree: Garvey, Lopes, Russell and Cey is one of the better of all time. But as much disdain as I have for the Yanks, I say gimme any infield with Derek Jeter at SS and I'll take my chances.

SkubeBats
10-24-2009, 09:07 AM
I would have to say the Milwaukee Brewers had a great infield back in the early 1980's.

1st base- Cecil Cooper
2nd base- Jim Gantner
shortstop- Robin Yount
3rd base- Paul Molitor
Catcher- Ted Simmons

joelsabi
10-24-2009, 10:55 AM
I would have to say the Milwaukee Brewers had a great infield back in the early 1980's.

1st base- Cecil Cooper
2nd base- Jim Gantner
shortstop- Robin Yount
3rd base- Paul Molitor
Catcher- Ted Simmons

I used to watch the Brewers back in the days because of their high powered offense and Yount was one of my favorite shortstops to watch. Never seen so many homeruns from a team those years.

bigtruck260
10-24-2009, 11:08 AM
I think Keith considers himself a Cardinal, whenever he talks about his career or opinion on baseball teams, he always favors the Cradinals.

Maybe it's becuase he's rarely in St. Louis - not sure. Most guys who have played for the Cardinals favor them. There are a few though, that will tell you they didn't enjoy their time here.

Hernandez was a great player, I just personally never really saw him as a Cardinal - since I became a fan after he went to the Mets...(and you know what STL fans called the mid-80's Mets? PONDSCUM).

Now that I think about it, I didn't like Keith becuase of his mustache.

5kRunner
10-24-2009, 01:11 PM
Maybe it's becuase he's rarely in St. Louis - not sure. Most guys who have played for the Cardinals favor them. There are a few though, that will tell you they didn't enjoy their time here.

Hernandez was a great player, I just personally never really saw him as a Cardinal - since I became a fan after he went to the Mets...(and you know what STL fans called the mid-80's Mets? PONDSCUM).

Now that I think about it, I didn't like Keith becuase of his mustache.

Who does this guy think he is?

I'm Keith Hernandez.

sox83cubs84
10-24-2009, 06:08 PM
BigTruck:

I didn't care for Hernandez because he was a JERK...period. There are numerous stories out there of him dissing fans and even promoters over autographs, but the one I personally witnessed was c.1983-84. A female autograph collector (although to be fair, she looks more like SNL's Pat than a woman) approached him for an autograph outside Wrigley Field, and he pushed her in the shoulder in a "get away from me" manner. I don't care what your gender is or how attractive/unattractive you are...this was more than Hernandez needed to do or should have done.

Dave M.
Chicago area

thomecollector
10-24-2009, 07:28 PM
BigTruck:

I didn't care for Hernandez because he was a JERK...period. There are numerous stories out there of him dissing fans and even promoters over autographs, but the one I personally witnessed was c.1983-84. A female autograph collector (although to be fair, she looks more like SNL's Pat than a woman) approached him for an autograph outside Wrigley Field, and he pushed her in the shoulder in a "get away from me" manner. I don't care what your gender is or how attractive/unattractive you are...this was more than Hernandez needed to do or should have done.

Dave M.
Chicago area
Dave,
Could you email me. I have a jersey that I want to get your thoughts on. Thanks,Roger

joelsabi
10-26-2009, 12:43 PM
[QUOTE=suave1477;166871]Joelsabi I must say I am a bit surprised you would put Cano into that company of best ever. After all the big mistakes he was made.
QUOTE]

did you change your opinion on cano's defense ability after last night? probably not. i think he was a man of happenstance on the two plays that were highlighted.

1) the bobbled ball off Jeter that cano barehanded for a out at second and almost threw to tex for a dp. good heads up play tho.
2) cano catching a possible drive up the middle in the eighth. He was shading left for a possible pick off of figgins at second.

anyways, rather be lucky than good some times.

suave1477
10-26-2009, 03:10 PM
[quote=suave1477;166871]Joelsabi I must say I am a bit surprised you would put Cano into that company of best ever. After all the big mistakes he was made.
QUOTE]

did you change your opinion on cano's defense ability after last night? probably not. i think he was a man of happenstance on the two plays that were highlighted.

1) the bobbled ball off Jeter that cano barehanded for a out at second and almost threw to tex for a dp. good heads up play tho.
2) cano catching a possible drive up the middle in the eighth. He was shading left for a possible pick off of figgins at second.

anyways, rather be lucky than good some times.

Joelabi it takes more that one or 2 good plays in one game for me to turn around and say they are solid defensively. It takes a season of consistancy of solid defense.

1) Do you remember the game I believe it was last year where Girardi benched Cano for a game or 2 when he watched a ball roll right by him?
2) Do you remember the game when Torre benched him when a ball came at him to where (he should of been standing) and he was no where to be found. Even the announcers were playing the video over and over trying to figure out where Cano went because you couldn't find him in the screeen shot.
3) Or how about the other night when Cano dissapeared into the outfield and Tex had to cover second?

joelsabi
10-26-2009, 04:47 PM
[quote=joelsabi;167369]

Joelabi it takes more that one or 2 good plays in one game for me to turn around and say they are solid defensively. It takes a season of consistancy of solid defense.

1) Do you remember the game I believe it was last year where Girardi benched Cano for a game or 2 when he watched a ball roll right by him?
2) Do you remember the game when Torre benched him when a ball came at him to where (he should of been standing) and he was no where to be found. Even the announcers were playing the video over and over trying to figure out where Cano went because you couldn't find him in the screeen shot.
3) Or how about the other night when Cano dissapeared into the outfield and Tex had to cover second?


agreed. like i said, the two good plays were lucky happenstance.

cano does seem to disappear at time. sometimes, we cannot even find him nowhere near where he should be when the cameraman zooms out.

bigtime59
10-26-2009, 06:21 PM
Joelsabi I must say I am a bit surprised you would put Cano into that company of best ever. After all the big mistakes he was made.
As for the other 3 No Argument here.

It had better be the best f-----g infield ever: at $81MM and change those four guys would be MLB's 15th highest payroll by themselves!

Think about that: the Yankee$ infield is paid more than the entire roster of half the teams in MLB!

Of course Cano makes mistakes! Hell, he's only costing the Yankee$ $6MM this season, just about a third of his next least expensive infield mate.

joelsabi
10-26-2009, 06:59 PM
It had better be the best f-----g infield ever: at $81MM and change those four guys would be MLB's 15th highest payroll by themselves!

Think about that: the Yankee$ infield is paid more than the entire roster of half the teams in MLB!

Of course Cano makes mistakes! Hell, he's only costing the Yankee$ $6MM this season, just about a third of his next least expensive infield mate.

Bigtime59,

I'm not following. Based on your criteria a small market like Baltimore (Brooks Robby/Belanger/D. Johnson or Grich/Powell) could not field the best infield.

Or

Based on an overall infield, a small market like Cleveland (Omar Vizque/Roberto Alomar/Travis Fryman/ Jim Thome) could not field a top 10 all-time infield since they make paid so little.


and Based on your criteria, last year's Boston infield (Youkalis/Pedroia/ Gonzalez/Lowell ) is the second greatest infield since they make so much.

I do not see any relation between salary and ranking great infielding units.


Regards,

Joel

CollectGU
10-26-2009, 07:21 PM
[quote=suave1477;167393]


.

Cano has become a gold glove candidate and might be the best in the AL at turing DP's! He has had lapses in concentration, but the guy is an unbelieveable fielder! He will win multiple gold gloves before his career is over

bigtime59
10-26-2009, 09:32 PM
Bigtime59,

I'm not following. Based on your criteria a small market like Baltimore (Brooks Robby/Belanger/D. Johnson or Grich/Powell) could not field the best infield.

Or

Based on an overall infield, a small market like Cleveland (Omar Vizque/Roberto Alomar/Travis Fryman/ Jim Thome) could not field a top 10 all-time infield since they make paid so little.


and Based on your criteria, last year's Boston infield (Youkalis/Pedroia/ Gonzalez/Lowell ) is the second greatest infield since they make so much.

I do not see any relation between salary and ranking great infielding units.


Regards,

Joel

I'm sure you also fail to see the correlation between the half a billion dollars the Yankee$ threw at free agents this past off season and the shiny trophy they'll be taking home in about ten days.
I'm sure you'll also think it's fair that if Joe Mauer becomes a free agent, he'll wind up with the Yankee$. Same for Pujols, same for Lackey...same for everybody.
It's boring and it's anti-competitive.

joelsabi
10-26-2009, 10:02 PM
I'm sure you also fail to see the correlation between the half a billion dollars the Yankee$ threw at free agents this past off season and the shiny trophy they'll be taking home in about ten days.
I'm sure you'll also think it's fair that if Joe Mauer becomes a free agent, he'll wind up with the Yankee$. Same for Pujols, same for Lackey...same for everybody.
It's boring and it's anti-competitive.

bigtime, stick to what i argued first and prove what you originally claim. youre saying the current yankee infield is the best ever because they have the highest paid lineup ever. i presume that your arguement goes further than just the best infield and you can rank the best according to salary totals. thats just not true.


i see a correlation between salaries and being able to bring over or keep talent. the cleveland infield wasnt kept before as they got better the small market could not afford to keep thome and alomar. salary are at a flux based on among other the current market, home grown talent, years in the league, etc.

the yankees have had the largest salaries every year for the last ten years and how many championship have they had in that period? theres no way to positively predict that they win it all this year becuase you would have lost that bet the last 8 years.

murfsteve25
10-26-2009, 10:24 PM
Blauser & Lemke were my fav

bigtime59
10-26-2009, 10:38 PM
bigtime, stick to what i argued first and prove what you originally claim. youre saying the current yankee infield is the best ever because they have the highest paid lineup ever. i presume that your arguement goes further than just the best infield and you can rank the best according to salary totals. thats just not true.


i see a correlation between salaries and being able to bring over or keep talent. the cleveland infield wasnt kept before as they got better the small market could not afford to keep thome and alomar. salary are at a flux based on among other the current market, home grown talent, years in the league, etc.

the yankees have had the largest salaries every year for the last ten years and how many championship have they had in that period? theres no way to positively predict that they win it all this year becuase you would have lost that bet the last 8 years.

Much as baseball fans love to compare players from different eras, it's farcically unfair to players of the past. Mark Belanger--one of the best shortstops of his time--couldn't sniff the major leagues in 2009. So, yes, given what the Yankee$ have paid for it, it had better be the best infield ever...because there isn't another team in baseball that could afford it!

And I get really, really tired of this "they haven't won a WS since 2000, so how are the Yankee$ buying titles?" crap. What the Yankee$ have bought--every year since 1995, save last year--was a ticket to the post season, either as the AL East or Wild Card winner. (What they tended to forget to buy was middle relief, but that's another story.) You think the Florida Marlins of 1997 or 2003 were the best team in baseball that year? Really? I bet you could take 2/3s of the teams in MLB and randomly drop them into the World Series and--if a couple of their pitchers got hot and a couple of their hitters went crazy for a week--they could win a World Series. The playoffs are that much of a crap shoot. The problem is that those teams can't get to the playoffs, much less the World Series.
So, until the wealth is shared equitably, the game is rigged, fixed and a sham. The Yankee$ are just the most blatant beneficiaries of that sham.
And if you believe they actually lose money--ever--I have some oceanfront property to sell you in Zimbabwe...cheap.

joelsabi
10-26-2009, 10:42 PM
Blauser & Lemke were my fav

according to mark (bigtime59) your dp combo cannot be on a championship team. too low budget.

joelsabi
10-26-2009, 10:50 PM
And if you believe they actually lose money--ever--I have some oceanfront property to sell you in Zimbabwe...cheap.

mauer should have the choice to be a yankee just as you had the choice to buy ocean property in zimbabwe.

murfsteve25
10-28-2009, 02:18 AM
according to mark (bigtime59) your dp combo cannot be on a championship team. too low budget.

Gotcha...i didnt read his post, only the title and then briefly a few other member's replies. In that case, I'll take Rafael Furcal. With his arm and speed he doesnt need the rest of the infield...jk of course. I really like the Arod, Jeter, Cano and Tex combo that was brought up. The Yankees really dont have an excuse to lose the Series this year. With all the all stars they have on their team and the money their paying, you'd think they would dominate the league every year.

WadeInBmore
10-28-2009, 10:45 AM
I still think that the 1997 Orioles infield was pretty awesome...

Rafael Palmeiro at first
Cal Ripken Jr at third
and the DP combo of Bordick (ss) and Alomar (2nd)

For me the Roberto Alomar years were some of the most memorable, most amazing years. He added an amazing explosive defensive force.

wade