Vintage Authentics Jordan jersey

[mb23]

Hello. I hope someone here can help me. In last months vintage authentics auction they had a home and an away 86-87 Jordan jersey I happened to win the away. Once in my hands I began to notice real issues with it and through alot of inspecting with a few people like Darren from rareair we have come to see it is a fake. The jersey I won is not game issued it's a fake. At this time Darren of RAREAIR23.com. Is helping me compile a side by side of the photos and my jersey. Tonight when I arrive home i will post my images of my jersey and some images of Jordan in 86-87 the jersey I way off from mesh, logo and name drop to the NBA logo being to high. Vintage authentics is telling me they need to check with there authenticator before they can deem this as not real. My issue is I have sent them all my info and pictures and anyone can see it's fake but yet they won't refund me. Here is a picture of the jersey. Its the only on I have with me now I will post more later. http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2641/3839743763_9f20625445.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3419/3840531598_6600611e6b.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2499/3839743105_707320e435.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2571/3839739353_d037d8420a_b.jpg

in this last picture you can clearly tell the 44 in the sandknit tag is not even centered.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2622/3840533834_d61e11c163.jpg

at this time vintage authentics has said to send it back and they will try and reach the authenticator and see what he deems it? What should I do???

[rareair23.com]

I'll have my review and comparison up on my website in a day or so. Spent 3 hours prepping the pictures to upload last night.

[dcgreg25]

I hope you paid with a credit card! If so, call your credit card company and dispute the charge immediately. You only have I think 60 days to dispute a charge. This will open an investigation by your credit card company that can take the reverse the charge and essentially force the seller to take the item back. Your card company will instruct you with what to do beyond that (likely send it back to Vintage with notice that you are disputing the charge). Make sure to keep notes on all of your correspondence, phone notes, etc. as it could be very important down the road. Good luck!

[nickacs]

Wow, sorry hear. I actually bid on both of those jerseys too. They were going too high for my blood for just a "game issued" jersey.
I talked to another forum member on here who said that he thought the jerseys looked "too big" compared to actual game worn jerseys that Jordan wore in those years. He told me to stay away, so after I bid once and each, I said forget it.
I have some pictures of other Jordan jerseys from the same here at home, so I'll see if I can dig some up tonight and post some comparisons, if it helps.

Good luck!!

[nickacs]

Sorry, forgot to add to my previous post that I emailed Mark at VA a day before the auction closing about those two "game issued" jerseys as to where the consignor got them from/etc., but he wouldn't tell me. :cool: Another thing that made me suspicious of them..

As I've learned the hard way on auction houses. ALWAYS do your homework before bidding. That's why I keep ALL auction jersey pics/lot descriptions for any jersey I see myself getting in the future as a reference. It has proved most invaluable to me!

[mb23]

Thanks guys. Unfortunatly i used paypal. Mark is the person I'm dealing with and once I recieved the jersey on wednesday evening and Inspected it better by Friday I knew it was a fake. It was hard to tell from the auction pictures but I do have them and will post them later. I'm just wondering if I should send it back and wait for a refund before they deem it a fake. Also what about the home that was sold!!! I feel bad for that buyer. By the way when I recieved the LOA from them this jersey was authenticated by Lou Lampson. This has left such a sour taste I'm my mouth it's a shame that these places don't do a better job authenticating and researching there items better.

[beantown]

Hello. I hope someone here can help me. In last months vintage authentics auction they had a home and an away 86-87 Jordan jersey I happened to win the away. Once in my hands I began to notice real issues with it and through alot of inspecting with a few people like Darren from rareair we have come to see it is a fake. The jersey I won is not game issued it's a fake. At this time Darren of RAREAIR23.com. Is helping me compile a side by side of the photos and my jersey. Tonight when I arrive home i will post my images of my jersey and some images of Jordan in 86-87 the jersey I way off from mesh, logo and name drop to the NBA logo being to high. Vintage authentics is telling me they need to check with there authenticator before they can deem this as not real. My issue is I have sent them all my info and pictures and anyone can see it's fake but yet they won't refund me. Here is a picture of the jersey. Its the only on I have with me now I will post more later. http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2641/3839743763_9f20625445.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3419/3840531598_6600611e6b.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2499/3839743105_707320e435.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2571/3839739353_d037d8420a_b.jpg

in this last picture you can clearly tell the 44 in the sandknit tag is not even centered.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2622/3840533834_d61e11c163.jpg

at this time vintage authentics has said to send it back and they will try and reach the authenticator and see what he deems it? What should I do???

No disrespect, but the "issues" you mention, could have been noted by you via the auction listings pictures and while the auction was in progress (IMO)...to call the auction house a “scam” is unfair…its not like you received the jersey and it had a number/name change, etc.

It can often be semantics to collectors, but if the auction house used the term "pro cut" vs. "game issued", would that make a difference in your eyes?

[rareair23.com]

Every thing is wrong with that jersey...

Please let me know who the authenticated that...whoever it is, obviously doesn't know Jordan material.

[mb23]

I did not call the auction house a scam. I said I was scammed by them selling a authenticated by there authenticator lou lampson who deemed this a game issued not pro cut. Let's not forgot that someone else also won the home version and is also sitting with garbage in there hand!!!

[rareair23.com]

No disrespect, but the "issues" you mention, could have been noted by you via the auction listings pictures and while the auction was in progress (IMO)...to call the auction house a “scam” is unfair…its not like you received the jersey and it had a number/name change, etc.

It can often be semantics to collectors, but if the auction house used the term "pro cut" vs. "game issued", would that make a difference in your eyes?



Sand Knit didn't produce pro cuts of that jersey in the 80s nor is it game issued...game ready, game backup, charity pc...salesman sample ..etc etc... it's just a down right, manufactured jersey (A good one I might add) to make it APPEAR to resemble a Sand Knit era jersey.

[mb23]

By the way. Your probably right that I may have been able to see the issues from the auction before bidding. So should have the auction house,no? This was my first time buying a game issued Jordan Jersey so sometimes the signs aren't as clear to me as they would be to someone who had the expierence.

[rareair23.com]

Figures it was Lou.....he has no idea about Jordan gamers...

It's ashame that he will benefit from my research...

He gets free education on Jordan from my website. :p

[beantown]

Sand Knit didn't produce pro cuts of that jersey in the 80s nor is it game issued...game ready, game backup, charity pc...salesman sample ..etc etc... it's just a down right, manufactured jersey (A good one I might add) to make it APPEAR to resemble a Sand Knit era jersey.


Interesting...so in your opinion, this was a manufctured jersey, which then had Sand Knit tags added?

[beantown]

By the way. Your probably right that I may have been able to see the issues from the auction before bidding. So should have the auction house,no? This was my first time buying a game issued Jordan Jersey so sometimes the signs aren't as clear to me as they would be to someone who had the expierence.

If this was a manufactured jersey and someone added tags, I wouldn't know either...

[rareair23.com]

Interesting...so in your opinion, this was a manufctured jersey, which then had Sand Knit tags added?

You can say that.... I know guys buy up all the rawlings baseball stuff from the early 80s etc...and it's not for the player, it's the rawlings tags that they want....

Guys were buying up the Shandon Andersons and other bench guys for the Jazz...back in the late 90s. They don't want the jersey, they want the coveted finals patch...remove it, add it to a MJ jersey, bingo you have a NBA Finals Jordan jersey in your hands..

[rareair23.com]

It's an opinion right now until I publish the results on my website...then it will be fact. ;)

[eisenreich8]

I'm pretty sure PayPal offers some form of payment/claim resolution, like your CC provider would? There are options through PayPal you might want to explore.

I feel for you and wish you luck.

[mb23]

I have explained to Mark at VA and i have showed him picture after picture showing in detail how the jersey is not real and all the issues with it. Still i get the answer of

"Mike,

If we conclude that you are correct, you will get a refund. As I have said, we need to go over this with our authenticator before we give a refund. If a refund is deemed appropriate, it should happen shortly after we would receive the jersey.

Thank you,

Mark Redmond"

So i need to wait so he can speak with his authenticator to get my refund???
Why would his authenticator(lou lampson)deem that after he deemed the jersey as a game issued?

Does'nt make sense to me!

[both-teams-played-hard]

First, I am not an expert.

The Sand-Knit tags look counterfeit. Not just taken from a pre-existing jersey and added to look like a real Jordan, BUT totally 100 % faked. The Fonts and printing look suspect. PLEASE take a photo of the actual size of the photo. Not stretched or distorted, but of the actual tags. Looks like a forger has started something new, or has just made a more recognizable fake.


This is something for the NY Daily News. This is so scary, that it is not worth a funny, photo-shopped picture of Lampson. I have seen printed, forged, counterfeit 50s era Wilson Tags. They are easy to spot. This Sand-Knit example is real crafty!

[otismalibu]

The Sand-Knit tags look counterfeit. Not just taken from a pre-existing jersey and added to look like a real Jordan, BUT totally 100 % faked.

What looks fake about them?

The bottom size tag looks exactly like the size tag on my retail SK jersey.

The Designed Exclusively tag looks just like the Sixers version I have on an old gamer.

If they're fake, they are very good.

[mb23]

Like I've said im no expert, but 1 good sign of the sand knit being fake is the font on the 44 is off and not centered.

[rareair23.com]

Let VA tell you Lampson is sticking to his word...then I'll hit him with the facts...

[33bird]

I checked that jersey out when it first came up for bid. It took me about 5 minutes on Gettys to see it wasn't even game issued. The home one had the same issues. Both are bad.

[both-teams-played-hard]

We need some examples from Bulls jerseys, for better comparison. These are examples from a football shirt, but notice the subtle font and spacing differences:

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/4823/sandknitcounterfeit2.jpg http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/4183/sandknitcounterfeit.jpg

Also there is not scam by Vintage Authentics (even though they should have done more research). I don't think the consignor is necessarily guilty, either. The guilty party is the manufacturer of this printing device.

[mb23]

I checked that jersey out when it first came up for bid. It took me about 5 minutes on Gettys to see it wasn't even game issued. The home one had the same issues. Both are bad.

Yeah, It took me getting it into my hands to really start to examine it i could say it didnt take long though with in a few hours i had my doubts, My fault! for not doing my homework prior, it wont happen again thats for sure.. It's just a shame that certain items pass through hands that are fake and yet end up on these auction houses. I was also blind with excitement from going after my first gamer. so i guess you can say rookie mistake!

[rareair23.com]

Without going into every little detail...the tag is bogus, most evident is the numeral 44 size which is consistant with all of the different Sand knit jordan jerseys....and now pretty much consistant with all tagging.

I'm pinpointing enough just to convince VA to refund his money back...that's all I need is for the maker of these tags to correct ALL of the mistakes..

[mb23]

Also there is not scam by Vintage Authentics (even though they should have done more research). I don't think the consignor is necessarily guilty, either. The guilty party is the manufacturer of this printing device.

I do not mean to Blame VA, but certainly there Authenticator (Lou Lampson) who they deem creditable to authenticate, should have picked up on this if he calls himself the expert. I picked up on it and it took me all of a few hours, so how can he not?

[mb23]

Without going into every little detail...the tag is bogus, most evident is the numeral 44 size which is consistant with all of the different Sand knit jordan jerseys....and now pretty much consistant with all tagging.

I'm pinpointing enough just to convince VA to refund his money back...that's all I need is for the maker of these tags to correct ALL of the mistakes..

Thanks Darren.

[both-teams-played-hard]

I do not mean to Blame VA, but certainly there Authenticator (Lou Lampson) who they deem creditable to authenticate, should have picked up on this if he calls himself the expert. I picked up on it and it took me all of a few hours, so how can he not?

Agreed. I want to edit my original statement. Lampson is guilty. He is the one claiming to be an expert and taking money for his opinion.

[otismalibu]

Like I've said im no expert, but 1 good sign of the sand knit being fake is the font on the 44 is off and not centered.

I see the 4 is a different font on the tag.

Still not getting the off-centered thing. You realize the word Sand will be longer than Knit, even though they both have 4 letters, right? Is the tag BTPH posted off center too?

[mb23]

The last 4 in 44 on my jersey should be almost even with the K in Knit.

[both-teams-played-hard]

I see the 4 is a different font on the tag.

Still not getting the off-centered thing. You realize the word Sand will be longer than Knit, even though they both have 4 letters, right? Is the tag BTPH posted off center too?

It's not necessarily "off-center". The counterfeit has a smaller font of"44", so it appears to be askew.

[mb23]

It's not necessarily "off-center". The counterfeit has a smaller font of"44", so it appears to be askew.

Ok i see your point. Didnt think of that.

[Steve Jensen]

There are a few things about this post that are very troubling to me which is why I felt compelled to reply even though I am fundamentally opposed to corresponding on a competitors site.

First is the title of the post. I can certainly understand how a competing auction company would allow such a thing but I personally think it is wrong to do so. The customer simply called to explain why he was concerned about the jersey. We pursued that concern with our authenticator as well as our consignor and subsequently agreed to refund the customer his money. If we had any concerns about the jersey , frankly, we wouldnt have run it, simple as that. We aren't out to scam anyone and those who have actaully taken the time to contact and speak with me directly to discuss any issues probably know that very well. I've spoken with, and do business with many of you and have for years. We have also been in contact with the other winner of the white jersey and have offered to refund that customer as well.

Second is the fact that this particualr customer was "blind with excitement from going after my first gamer. so i guess you can say rookie mistake"

We did NOT represent this jersey as a Jordan gamer and ,based on the fact that this customer was blind with excitement over purchasing this "gamer" i am now wondering what his plans were for this jersey?

It is unfortunate that this site has transformed into an attack first , ask questions later stomping ground over the last few years. This forum could be so much more productive, insightful and be used as a meaningful exchange of ideas and information. We have treated this customer very fairly and with complete resepect all the way through this process and from an outsider looking in they see "scammed by vintage authentics" This is very unfortunate. They dont see the professionalism with which this uncomfortable situation was handled. I personally apologize to both customers for their inconvenience. But I am more sorry that many people who read this post come away with the wrong idea of Vintage Authentics and how we conduct business. As they do about many other auction houses and/or authenticators that are openly attacked and slandered on this site.

Best Regards,
Steve Jensen
www.vintageauthentics.com (http://www.vintageauthentics.com)

[hblakewolf]

There are a few things about this post that are very troubling to me which is why I felt compelled to reply even though I am fundamentally opposed to corresponding on a competitors site.

First is the title of the post. I can certainly understand how a competing auction company would allow such a thing but I personally think it is wrong to do so. The customer simply called to explain why he was concerned about the jersey. We pursued that concern with our authenticator as well as our consignor and subsequently agreed to refund the customer his money. If we had any concerns about the jersey , frankly, we wouldnt have run it, simple as that. We aren't out to scam anyone and those who have actaully taken the time to contact and speak with me directly to discuss any issues probably know that very well. I've spoken with, and do business with many of you and have for years. We have also been in contact with the other winner of the white jersey and have offered to refund that customer as well.

Second is the fact that this particualr customer was "blind with excitement from going after my first gamer. so i guess you can say rookie mistake"

We did NOT represent this jersey as a Jordan gamer and ,based on the fact that this customer was blind with excitement over purchasing this "gamer" i am now wondering what his plans were for this jersey?

It is unfortunate that this site has transformed into an attack first , ask questions later stomping ground over the last few years. This forum could be so much more productive, insightful and be used as a meaningful exchange of ideas and information. We have treated this customer very fairly and with complete resepect all the way through this process and from an outsider looking in they see "scammed by vintage authentics" This is very unfortunate. They dont see the professionalism with which this uncomfortable situation was handled. I personally apologize to both customers for their inconvenience. But I am more sorry that many people who read this post come away with the wrong idea of Vintage Authentics and how we conduct business. As they do about many other auction houses and/or authenticators that are openly attacked and slandered on this site.

Best Regards,
Steve Jensen
www.vintageauthentics.com (http://www.vintageauthentics.com)

I'd like to comment on Steve's post:

1. He refunded the buyers money-same day as this post-period. Based upon other auction houses policy of "all sales final", what more could this buyer ask for? His money was refunded. Why did this poster not mention this or at least update his posts?

2. Steve further notes that if customers take the time to contact him with an issue, he will handle it. I can speak from experience-I had a minor issue with a jersey I purchased from Steve, and he immediately refunded my money-no questions asked, no hassle. Both AMI and Grey Flannel have an "all sales final" and I can speak from experieince that AMI will hold true to this. It took me over 2 months to receive a credit on my VISA and countless hours of emails with VISA to get this refund for a bogus superstar jersey that Victor/AMI insited was "legit".


3. Steve, why do you continue to employ the "services" of Lou Lampson? It's no secret he is a complete laughing stock and actually hurts your auction items more than helps. I talk with collectors day in and day out who shy away from bidding on anything with a Lampson LOA. Same holds true for items listed on ebay with his LOA. As the owner of Vintage Authentics, can you reply to this issue and shed some light on it?

Just my two cents worth....

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@comcast.net

[33bird]

I agree with Howard. I've had a good experience with VA. I would LOVE to see them get rid of Lou Lampson and get someone in there that's legit to authenticate. I think Lou scares most of us away, and if you purchase something with a Lou coa you usually use it for when you run out of TP and don't keep it anyway.

[kingjammy24]

Agreed. I want to edit my original statement. Lampson is guilty. He is the one claiming to be an expert and taking money for his opinion.

but warren, lou once lamented that "if you turn an item down, they don't want to pay you". what's poor lou to do? then again, in the same interview he also said this was a "labor of love" for him...so i don't know why he'd care about not getting paid. maybe he meant that making screwups was a labor of love.

rudy.

[mb23]

My refund was agreed to after about page 4 of this post about 4pm eastern time. I will be refunded once item has been returned. I have every email from mark to me. From Friday until now, each email stating that he needed to speak with his authenticator before he can deem a refund. It was not until today I got him to agree to a refund and handle the issue on his end without me having to wait for my refund. Is it because I made this post that my issue was granted today or maybe because Darren of rareair23 is doing a photo comparison of my jersey and a real issued. I was never under the impression this was a gamer the auction clearly stated game issued for use.

[MSpecht]

Hello Steve.

When I read this thread a short while ago (it was only started earlier today) and considered your specific post, I agreed with your opinion that the poster's original title was a mis-characterization of the developments as they occurred in the cited VA auction. As a result, the title has been edited in the forum index, and the software guys are examining the procedure to edit the title as it occurs in each subsequent post.

I do have to take issue with your general characterization of the GUU site however. First, your implication that a "competitor" (GUU) would allow and, by implication, encourage irresponsible posts in order to achieve some benefit for themselves is unsupported by any logical evaluation of the site content. A quick review of the GUU site will produce dozens of edits that are made frequently by Chris, Eric, Rob, and myself in an effort to avoid any perception of self-promotion at the expense of other industry companies. That search will also reveal regular edits of what appear to be unwarranted and unjustified statements on this public forum.

That being said however, when a forum member or contributor either seeks assistance from others in determining the accuracy of an authentication (from whatever source) or questions the representation (description) of a specific game used item, that can hardly be taken as an "attack first, question later" posture, as you characterized in your post. If you have done your job to your satisfaction and have posted an item in an auction venue, at that point you have opened the item up for public consideration. If it turns out that the original research is lacking, well, then it is up to the auction house to respond appropriately. Every body makes a mistake sooner or later, and the true measure of a company is 1) how they respond to those mistakes in terms of customer satisfaction, and 2) what steps they tahe in order to minimize such mistakes in the future. That is, of course, assuming that the mistake is just that, and not an identified pattern of negligent or malicious behavior.

In this case, your offers to both the original poster and the winner of the second MJ jersey to fully refund their money is certainly appropriate, and, as you state, a very professional response. In a more abstract thought, however, do you plan to offer any compensation to the unpaid person who researched the jerseys and brought forth the evidence that convinced you to offer the refunds, as that individual provided a significant benefit to your company by avoiding future criticism of auctioning and profiting from a misrepresented item ? Maybe like the fee you already paid the person who put you in an untenable position with a faulty evaluation? Or maybe just a genuine "Thanks ?"

Mike Specht Jackitout7@aol.com

[mb23]

I was trying to change my title as I stated in one of my posts I didn't not mean to attack VA. I apologize for that, but they do need to stand by a product they sold by a an authenticator who maybe not knowingly scams people but does not have the ability to authenticate items as we can see. Once again I am sorry for the title, but I am not knew to collecting at all.

[skinsfan0521]

Mr Jensen,

I just thought I'd throw my .02 in this thread for what it's worth and ask a simple question...

I'm by no means after super high end items and don't claim to be some sort of "big fish" when it comes to GU items. I can say that based on the RIDICULOUS amount of terrible items that I've seen authenticated by Lou Lampson that turn out to be fake, I wonder why you would continue to employ him?

In all honesty, I went to your site a few months ago, checked out some items and saw that your authenticator is Lou Lampson and haven't been back since. I just don't find anything so desirable that I would want to go through the hassle of trying to re-authenticate an item that Lou Lampson already did...incorrectly.

I know that the rule is that you need to do your own due diligence as a buyer, but it makes it easier when there's at least a decent chance that it's going to turn out to be real. I don't even want to waste hours of my day with starting from square 1 on an authentication.

It may have been a little "rambling", but basically my real question is:

"Don't you think that Lou Lampson costs you more money than he makes you??"

This is NOT AT ALL an attack on you or Vintage Authentics, because as I said before, I haven't even spent a lot of time on your site and haven't ever bought anything from you. I'm not questioning your intent or anything like that... simply wondering why you think it's beneficial to hire Lou Lampson as your authenticator?

I realize that you're probably not going to reply based on the first sentence in your first post, but maybe you could send me a PM on here or email, because I'd honestly like to know the answer.

Thanks a lot!

-Brian
bharasymczuk@gmail.com

[NYCrulesU]

I avoid anything "authenticated" by Lou Lampson like the plague. Plain and simple. I've known about VA for some time. Sorry, but the simple employment and use of Lou Lampsom keeps me from ever bidding.

[hblakewolf]

but warren, lou once lamented that "if you turn an item down, they don't want to pay you". what's poor lou to do? then again, in the same interview he also said this was a "labor of love" for him...so i don't know why he'd care about not getting paid. maybe he meant that making screwups was a labor of love.

rudy.

Rudy-

What type of individual who considers himself an "expert" would ever go on record and note major flaws in the way they conduct their own business? Better yet, what auction house would ever employ the services of such an individual who admits he can't perform his duties as hired for and allows it to also be recorded "on the record"?

Sloppy, sloppy, sloppy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxCvGurfWB8

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@comcast.net

[Texstros]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxCvGurfWB8


Wow that is scary!! Good find hblakewolf..

[TriplexXxSports]

Rudy-

What type of individual who considers himself an "expert" would ever go on record and note major flaws in the way they conduct their own business? Better yet, what auction house would ever employ the services of such an individual who admits he can't perform his duties as hired for and allows it to also be recorded "on the record"?

Sloppy, sloppy, sloppy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxCvGurfWB8

Howard Wolf
hblakewolf@comcast.net

What a joke! Lampson's BS, I'm referring to.

I would think that when you are dealing with items that may attract many of thousands of dollars, how can you say "you do the best you can in the time frame that you are allotted."

Why would an auction house or vendor want to tell someone that they have a deadline to authenticate an item? Shouldn't they employ an authenticator that is willing to say to them....

"hey, this is a top dollar piece and I want to make 100% sure that I have exhausted every possible resource to come to my conclusion. You need to understand that in order to make a correct judgment on this particular piece I may not be able to do it in the time frame that you are asking me to do it in. You may have to postpone your listing/sale until a later date. This will only help attract the top value for this piece and when it comes down to it we will both be comfortable with the authentication, and most importantly, the buyer. If I am not able to take the proper amount of time it will take to authenticate this piece it will do nothing more than come back on myself and the auction house/vendor, and open up the possibility of an incorrect/fraudulent authentication."

I don't see why this is not a standard practice used by authenticators. But then again, if you turn down the item, you don't get paid. This is a serious problem in the collection world and it will only continue to get worse as long as people continue to employ authenticators such as LOU LAMPSON!

[lund6771]

It's great to actually hear from an auction house on this forum!

for discussion sake, I think it's pretty safe to say that most auction houses think that this is an attack forum...but why isn't gameworn.net perceived that way?...I think it's because the dealers/auction houses participate in that forum, which gains them respect in the collecting community...I can't think of one hockey dealer that isn't an active participant there...

for the most part, there are minimal issues presented there with the hockey auction houses and their product...here there are tons of issues with lots of auction houses and for the most part they do nothing about it except to keep cranking out auctions, employ Lou, and all sales are final

maybe if the auction houses wanted to run an honest business, and not sell 30+ Lebron and Kobe "gamers" in the last few years, they wouldn't feel like this is an attack forum

[buc]

I don't want to get slammed for my opinion on this, but I'm going to post it anyway:
1. I would like to personally say that I have dealt with Vintage Authentics before, had an issue with something I purchased, and they were prompt and swift in dealing with the issue. Unlike other auction houses that I have dealt with, they observed the homework that was done AFTER the auction that I PERSONALLY should have done BEFORE the auction ended, and still worked to make my situation right. Other auction houses, no names here but you can probably guess, will not return phone calls, answer e-mails, etc... until you do a chargeback. (Then they call and ask why it was not handled in a more professional manner-go figure.)
2. I'm not defending Lou Lampson, but I can say with 100% certainty that he does not authenticate every item that is consigned for auctions. How do I know? He has turned down a total of 3 of my items that I thought were 100% legit...they came from reputable sources (including certain members here) that looked the part, smelled the part, etc..., but he turned them down and told me why. I could not argue with his findings.
3. Every time I see a post on here that asks why auction houses don't use a different authenticator, I ask the same question---who do you want them to use????? Not every item is Meigray, Steiner, UDA, etc... authenticated. Not trying to pick a fight here, but please tell me who else they can use.
Ultimately, every item you bid on or buy, you should have done the research yourself and make your own conclusions. I did not do that ONCE, and it will not happen again.

[NYCrulesU]

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more_sports/2007/08/19/2007-08-19_there_is_only_one_jordan.html?page=0

[TriplexXxSports]

It's great to actually hear from an auction house on this forum!

for discussion sake, I think it's pretty safe to say that most auction houses think that this is an attack forum...but why isn't gameworn.net perceived that way?...I think it's because the dealers/auction houses participate in that forum, which gains them respect in the collecting community...I can't think of one hockey dealer that isn't an active participant there...

for the most part, there are minimal issues presented there with the hockey auction houses and their product...here there are tons of issues with lots of auction houses and for the most part they do nothing about it except to keep cranking out auctions, employ Lou, and all sales are final

maybe if the auction houses wanted to run an honest business, and not sell 30+ Lebron and Kobe "gamers" in the last few years, they wouldn't feel like this is an attack forum

But if the auction houses were to actively participate in this forum it would open them to alot of issues with the questionable items, therefore minimizing their current auction inventory, and in the words of LOU, if they have to turn it away then they cannot make money.

I think having them actively participate would greatly enhance their reputation, as well as benefit us collectors that frequent here. Every one makes mistakes, but to face them and have to answer for them says alot about their company and the people they employ.

Great point Lund!

[lund6771]

3. Every time I see a post on here that asks why auction houses don't use a different authenticator, I ask the same question---who do you want them to use????? Not every item is Meigray, Steiner, UDA, etc... authenticated. Not trying to pick a fight here, but please tell me who else they can use.
Ultimately, every item you bid on or buy, you should have done the research yourself and make your own conclusions. I did not do that ONCE, and it will not happen again.


Not trying to pick a fight, but that's bullshit...I'm in the construction business and if I don't know anything about construction, than I don't belong in it...sure I don't know everything, but what I don't know, I ask true experts

If I sell my product to my customer and screw up, is it their fault for using my services?...should I have been there with a shovel doing it myself and then still pay them 20%

[carct]

Lampson's letter is a letter of opinion. If you do not like his opinion do not bid. Caveat Emptor. Do you homework BEFORE you buy an item and do not blame others for YOUR mistakes.

[lund6771]

wish there was an edit button

should my customer be there with a shovel, do the work, and my company make 20%

[TriplexXxSports]

Lampson's letter is a letter of opinion. If you do not like his opinion do not bid. Caveat Emptor. Do you homework BEFORE you buy an item and do not blame others for YOUR mistakes.


Run for the hills....the Colonel is back..:eek:.....LMFAO!

[lund6771]

Lampson's letter is a letter of opinion. If you do not like his opinion do not bid. Caveat Emptor. Do you homework BEFORE you buy an item and do not blame others for YOUR mistakes.

my dog can bark an opinion as well...but he doesn't claim to be an expert...Lampson and his employers do

[buc]

Not trying to pick a fight, but that's bullshit...I'm in the construction business and if I don't know anything about construction, than I don't belong in it...sure I don't know everything, but what I don't know, I ask true experts

If I sell my product to my customer and screw up, is it their fault for using my services?...should I have been there with a shovel doing it myself and then still pay them 20%


NICE response, but you did not answer my question. Who should they use? I'm open to any suggestions, but I still believe that unless you do your own homework, you are doing yourself a disservice, regardless of whose sticker is own the item.

[buc]

ON the item, not own the item. Darn edit button.

[TriplexXxSports]

NICE response, but you did not answer my question. Who should they use? I'm open to any suggestions, but I still believe that unless you do your own homework, you are doing yourself a disservice, regardless of whose sticker is own the item.

My .02 is that if an auction house claims to be the best, or demands the highest reputation then they should use the best, like the ones you mentioned.

Quite possibly they have tried in the past and their items were turned away and Lou is the only one that would put a sticker on it.

The object of the game is to have inventory, and to sell that inventory at the highest price the market will give for it. Who fetches more bids and/or dollars - UDA or Lampson?

[lund6771]

NICE response, but you did not answer my question. Who should they use? I'm open to any suggestions, but I still believe that unless you do your own homework, you are doing yourself a disservice, regardless of whose sticker is own the item.

Buc...noone...Lelands, GFC, and others do it in house

they do a way better job than Lampson...Leland's last auction was one of the best I've seen in a long time..the way it should be...Lelands employees knowledgable people and market a great product

I definitely agree with you about doing your own homework

But again...if you are an auction house that doesn't have any idea what you are selling and are using Lou as the shield, you're in for a big surprise when there is a knock on the door...and it won't be the good humer lady

[buc]

My .02 is that if an auction house claims to be the best, or demands the highest reputation then they should use the best, like the ones you mentioned.

Quite possibly they have tried in the past and their items were turned away and Lou is the only one that would put a sticker on it.

The object of the game is to have inventory, and to sell that inventory at the highest price the market will give for it. Who fetches more bids and/or dollars - UDA or Lampson?

I wish UDA would authenticate, but they only do it for items they sell. They will not accept items to authenticate (unless you want an item signed, then it is only for the signature.)

[carct]

Run for the hills....the Colonel is back..:eek:.....LMFAO!

Not sure who the Colonel is..Let me guess TripleX, you bought a house you couldn't afford and it's the bank's fault for lending you the money and now I'm paying for it.

[rareair23.com]

Wow! been away for a few hours and this thread has gone bananas!

I first have to say Kudos to Steve and Vintage Authentics in taking the matter in an appropriate fashion. Says alot when a company takes action in a short period of time. Tells me they are concerned and takes pride in the company they run.

Well, Mike got his refund....

I ended up doing the review anyway, I rushed it and it's a rough cut so if there are any typos then I'll correct them later....

All of my research comes from 20+ years of pure love and enjoyment on collecting Michael Jordan artifacts...endless hours of studying videos and buying up every news magazine to look at sublte things like the way he tucks in his jersey or how he tugs on it a certain way to how he laces his shoes...ask me about a Kobe jersey or a Bird jersey.....I'll tell you I have no clue. I only study one man...and it's THE MAN in my opinion.

Please feel free to browse my site as it was done to educate the collector..... all I ask is when the known authenticators out there grab useful information from my site to make a judgement call on something....Please give credit to where credit is due.

Best!
Darren

Here's the link
http://rareair23.com/jordangameuseduniforms/jordanjersey8687.html

[TriplexXxSports]

Not sure who the Colonel is..Let me guess TripleX, you bought a house you couldn't afford and it's the bank's fault for lending you the money and now I'm paying for it.

Not quite.

[both-teams-played-hard]

All of my research comes from 20+ years of pure love and enjoyment on collecting Michael Jordan artifacts...endless hours of studying videos and buying up every news magazine to look at sublte things like the way he tucks in his jersey or how he tugs on it a certain way to how he laces his shoes...ask me about a Kobe jersey or a Bird jersey.....I'll tell you I have no clue. I only study one man...and it's THE MAN in my opinion.



The memories. To be 14 years old again...

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/8488/meandjordan222.jpg

[rareair23.com]

Wow! what year is that? 84-85?

[both-teams-played-hard]

Wow! what year is that? 84-85?

July 1985.

I've seen Michael play 4 times at UNC, about 10 times in the pros (with 2 all-star games), and 3 times for the Birmingham Barons in the summer of 1994. Also got a copy of this photo autographed in 1990. Also, saw him play golf twice.

[rareair23.com]

I'd love to see the autographed one...

[mb23]

I would like to say thank you to Darren of Rareair23 for helping me out, and a few other good people here. Also a Thank you to Vintage Authentics resolving this matter. I have shipped back the jersey and once they get it they will issue my refund. I will keep you updated. Im glad its over and I can begin to search again.

[mb23]

Refund granted. Thank you GUU, Darren and Vintage Authentics.