91 Marino-another MEARS mistake

[RKGIBSON]

http://cgi.ebay.com/DAN-MARINO-1991-AUTOGRAPHED-GAME-USED-TEAL-AUTO-JERSEY_W0QQitemZ270436348505QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_ DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3ef7433259&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

This Marino is listed as a 1991 game used jersey. It comes with a MEARS cert and a A5 grade. The date code on the size flag is FP, 1993 February. Nice job again.

The seller has sold many jerseys just like this one over the past few years.

Roger

[mvandor]

A5 in Mears-speak, to me, translates to "uh, maybe, maybe not".

[34swtns]

Good catch, Roger.

I've had a few collectors of game used stuff try to tell me that the Wilson flag tagging isn't a date code at all.......that it had something to do with the "production run" or some such nonsense. One dealer even told me that "a factory guy" had told him that there were no date codes on the old jerseys. When I asked him if he thought this employee had been there since 1987 when the date code system was initiated or even through the early 90's when it was used consistently on gamers and authentics and his reply was, "well, probably not". Uh huh.
It's funny but everyone who has tried to debunk this info is, a) selling something that isn't what it's being touted as, or, b) not specifically a Wilson collector, meaning they collect so many different types of things that you know they've never bothered to spend the time to compaare different known examples of Wilson gamers and educate themselves regarding Wilson's manufacturing trends, i.e., tagging, fabrics, cuts, attribution types, etc..
I've seen far too many examples of jerseys that prove the date code information to be correct to believe otherwise.

[mears]

Guys,

After reading your post, I see the lit torches as the townies are trying to capture me in my home. I have reviewed the Dan Marino jersey in question, the the MEARS letter in our database is NOT the jersey that is being posted on the Ebay auction. The jersey being sold is not the jersey that we evaluated. This could mean one of several things:

1. The Ebay MEARS letter is a fake

2. The jersey was evaluated by MEARS but the correct LOO matching the jersey was not updated online at the MEARS headquarters.

I have contacted the seller and have asked for the hologram number so that I may verify. If the jersey is being sold with a fake LOO, we will take the appropriate measures. If the jersey is incorrectly listed by MEARS and after evaluation we are found to be in error, the seller will be protected under the MEARS Buyers Protection policy.

To mvandor and RKGIBSON, in the future you will find that if you email, I will me more that happy to investigate any potential problems associated with my company.

I would ask to be treated in a professional manner and given the chance to review and respond, before your negative comments are printed. Rightfully, you have an expectation that MEARS asks in an accountable way. We do. Conversely, I have an expectation that you are accountable for your words. You haven't acted responsible with your posts. If the letter is proven to be a forgery, your title, "Re: 91 Marino-another MEARS mistake" is pure libel, and their are remedies against those that act in a libelous manner.

Many GUF have had concerns regarding items evaluated by MEARS. They have voiced their concerns in a professional manner, and 100% of the time were given a detailed follow up. In some instances, we were wrong about a certain fact about a jersey and bat, and immediately fixed or updated a letter.

But, you did not see them stating such conversations in all caps with a sensationalized post title.

Believe it or not, MEARS has never taken the stance that we are infalliable. We are also a part of the Game Used community, and work to hard to learn and share our knowledge with others. For those that have dealt directly with the staff of MEARS, you will know that to be true.

In the future, if there are any MEARS issues regarding opinions that we have offered, try contacting me first. I will be glad to review, correct, ammend, or buy back any mistakes made by MEARS.

Sincerely,


Troy R. Kinunen
MEARS

P.S. I will address Lon's 49ers jersey issue later as i have found supporting documentation to the use of Sand Knit jerseys.

P.S.S. I have almost completed my A5 response.

[markize]

Guys,

After reading your post, I see the lit torches as the townies are trying to capture me in my home. I have reviewed the Dan Marino jersey in question, the the MEARS letter in our database is NOT the jersey that is being posted on the Ebay auction. The jersey being sold is not the jersey that we evaluated. This could mean one of several things:

1. The Ebay MEARS letter is a fake

2. The jersey was evaluated by MEARS but the correct LOO matching the jersey was not updated online at the MEARS headquarters.

I have contacted the seller and have asked for the hologram number so that I may verify. If the jersey is being sold with a fake LOO, we will take the appropriate measures. If the jersey is incorrectly listed by MEARS and after evaluation we are found to be in error, the seller will be protected under the MEARS Buyers Protection policy.

To mvandor and RKGIBSON, in the future you will find that if you email, I will me more that happy to investigate any potential problems associated with my company.

I would ask to be treated in a professional manner and given the chance to review and respond, before your negative comments are printed. Rightfully, you have an expectation that MEARS asks in an accountable way. We do. Conversely, I have an expectation that you are accountable for your words. You haven't acted responsible with your posts. If the letter is proven to be a forgery, your title, "Re: 91 Marino-another MEARS mistake" is pure libel, and their are remedies against those that act in a libelous manner.

Many GUF have had concerns regarding items evaluated by MEARS. They have voiced their concerns in a professional manner, and 100% of the time were given a detailed follow up. In some instances, we were wrong about a certain fact about a jersey and bat, and immediately fixed or updated a letter.

But, you did not see them stating such conversations in all caps with a sensationalized post title.

Believe it or not, MEARS has never taken the stance that we are infalliable. We are also a part of the Game Used community, and work to hard to learn and share our knowledge with others. For those that have dealt directly with the staff of MEARS, you will know that to be true.

In the future, if there are any MEARS issues regarding opinions that we have offered, try contacting me first. I will be glad to review, correct, ammend, or buy back any mistakes made by MEARS.

Sincerely,


Troy R. Kinunen
MEARS

P.S. I will address Lon's 49ers jersey issue later as i have found supporting documentation to the use of Sand Knit jerseys.

P.S.S. I have almost completed my A5 response.

Troy,

not to derail this thread, but I emailed you about 2 weeks ago with my concerns over an Alfonso Soriano "game used" bat you are the authenticator of in the vintage authentics current auction. To this date, you have not responded to my concerns. Any chance of a response?

Mark

[NYRangers]

Mr. Kinunen,
Can you please weigh in on the Lawrence Taylor jersey currently listed on ebay and being discussed in another thread in this section?
Thank you.

[RKGIBSON]

I have emailed the seller and ask for a close up of the MEARS letter. It has a picture of the tag in question. If it is not the jersey you evaluated then he is making frudulent statements. My statements on the jersey, as it is presented, are true. My statements about this seller selling other Marino jerseys is true.

Roger

[tom1315]

Troy,

not to derail this thread, but I emailed you about 2 weeks ago with my concerns over an Alfonso Soriano "game used" bat you are the authenticator of in the vintage authentics current auction. To this date, you have not responded to my concerns. Any chance of a response?

Mark

Mark, would you share for the group what your concerns are with the bat?

Thanks, Tom

[markize]

Mark, would you share for the group what your concerns are with the bat?

Thanks, Tom

sure thing, Tom. This is a batting practice bat. There is an area extending from the end of the center brand to the end of where his name/model number are stamped, where the barrel was taped. There is a difference in the finish of the bat in this area. It looks "clean", and I'm not refering to lack ball/seam marks. This is a common characteristic of Soriano BP bats. The tape has been removed, and the bat is listed only as game used. No mention of batting practice, or the taped barrel. A lie of omission in my book. Some bidder with no knowledge of this drops good $ thinking he has a rare Sori gamer, ends up with an overpriced BP bat. At this point, either the knowledgeable bidders know this and haven't bid, or bidders are waiting till the end to jump in. I personally have no problem buying the bat as BP, but wouldn't want the inaccurate LOA's. I emailed these concerns to Troy on 7/23, and have not received the courtesy of a response.

I am sorry to turn this thread in this direction, so this will be all for me. Serious concerns were raised on the original post, and deserve to be addressed.

If you want further explanation, of have other questions, please feel free the email me directly.


Mark
sirfuzzy@comcast.net

[mvandor]

Nice threat Troy, you know as well as I that my one sentence post doesn't come close to constituting legal libel. You also are fully aware of the debate over your A5 grades, which I casually summarized.

Your response would have been far better public relations sans the empty threats.

[Marichal27]

Interesting MEARS never mentioned anything about the Forrest Blue jersey on Vintage.

[Jake51]

Looks like he mentioned in the 'P.S.' that he is going to share some additional information with us on the 49'ers jersey.

Thanks,

Tom

[Marichal27]

Yep, missed the second PS.

[yankees159]

Very interesting stuff. In my opinion folks like Lon Lewis are some of the most honest and knowlege people in this industry. I know Lon has looked at stuff for me free of charge. With the advent of GUU and now the FBI getting involved in the industry, the authentictors like Troy no longer can do poor jobs evaluating memorabilia and manipulate the industry in their favor. They also do not have as much power or respect as they once had. Now that the times have changed ,I would imagine that Mears and other authenticators are thinking twice before they write a letter of opinion. Anyway just my opinion, I don't think their Attorney Berny can get me by expressing my opinion. I look forward to seeing if Troy responds to some of the other items that have been questioned.

Todd
P.S. " Collect what you like, like what you collect " A great quote from Troy's collegue Dave Grob.
PSS: I don't worry if Dealers or authenticators don't like me, I don't need more friends, I just don't want to get ripped off.

[nyjetsfan14]

Personally, I don't see how anyone enhances their standing in the hobby or endears themselves to collectors (also known as customers - or "townies" now I guess) when they take offense to the free exchange of ideas/thoughts and somebody maybe typing using capital letters - which I did not see in this particular thread. I am sure many are interested in a follow up - minus threats.