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View Full Version : Mark Teiria bat flys into the stands BUT fan gets a Game Issued!!!



suave1477
07-31-2009, 08:19 PM
Tex takes a huge swing and by accident lets go of the bat. It flys over the dug out into the stands and an older gentleman got it. Security ran over to the fan and took the bat back and gave it to Tex. Tex inturn gave security a Game Issued bat to give to the fan.

Just in case anyone wanted to know.

yanks12025
07-31-2009, 08:51 PM
I seen that, i would have been pissed and not given up the bat.

yanks12025
07-31-2009, 09:09 PM
The bat was a Adirondack model. Does anyone know if they seen Texiera use one in a game this year.

sox83cubs84
08-01-2009, 01:51 AM
I seen that, i would have been pissed and not given up the bat.

The procedure, as suave described it, is pretty much the standard in baseball, as the bat that flew into the stands is prepared for game use by the player...the game-issued one is still pristine. As a game-used collector, I can understand your sense of disdain for this, but, in a lot of parks, if security got involved, you probably wouldn't have a choice.

Dave M.
Chicago area

mfsquirrelmaster
08-01-2009, 03:47 AM
I do see a difference between this type of situation and a homerun ball. As Dave said the bat that went into the stands was prepared for game use and the one they gave to the guy was pristine. How many bats does each player prepare for a game. There is also a chance that they crack a bat or two so I can see why Tex would want the bat back if it was still usable.

UGA-1
08-01-2009, 05:42 AM
Yeah, I agree. A ball is different than a bat. I know if I was at work and dropped my screwdriver, I would want it back if the guy in row 6 picked it up. I think the fact that the fan was given anything in trade was fair enough. I would be slightly dissapointed giving it up, but would completely understand.

suave1477
08-01-2009, 06:52 AM
The bat was a Adirondack model. Does anyone know if they seen Texiera use one in a game this year.


He was using those in the begining of the season with the Yankees.

suave1477
08-01-2009, 06:53 AM
The procedure, as suave described it, is pretty much the standard in baseball, as the bat that flew into the stands is prepared for game use by the player...the game-issued one is still pristine. As a game-used collector, I can understand your sense of disdain for this, but, in a lot of parks, if security got involved, you probably wouldn't have a choice.

Dave M.
Chicago area

Oh yeah?? Watch me!!! Im running lmaooo:D

suicide_squeeze
08-01-2009, 02:27 PM
suave......I'm with you on this one.

I know the players coddle and baby their gamers, do all kinds of personal modifications like rubbing them down, placing the proper amount of pine tar, etc., bas as I fan, I'm just telling you the way it is.....

If that bat comes flying into the seats directly from the players hands, I'm instanting turning into Charleton Heston:

"From my cold, dead hands....." is the only way their taking that bat from me! Once it leaves the field, it is no longer their property. I know it would be the decent thing to do (give it back), but quite frankly, screw that noise. These players, especially Mark Tex, are making indecent amounts of money playing this game. WE PAY FOR IT, buying tickets to attend games while supporting them.

I don't care if the big baby breaks down and cries in the batter's box while kicking and stomping his feet......if that bat comes in my direction....it's mine. He can go prepare another bat for himself...

suicide_squeeze
08-01-2009, 02:30 PM
UG....the typos......sorry:o

last post...."bas" = but
................"instanting" = instantly

sox83cubs84
08-01-2009, 06:22 PM
[quote=suicide_squeeze;154854]suave......I'm with you on this one.

I know the players coddle and baby their gamers, do all kinds of personal modifications like rubbing them down, placing the proper amount of pine tar, etc., bas as I fan, I'm just telling you the way it is.....

If that bat comes flying into the seats directly from the players hands, I'm instanting turning into Charleton Heston:

"From my cold, dead hands....." is the only way their taking that bat from me! Once it leaves the field, it is no longer their property. I know it would be the decent thing to do (give it back), but quite frankly, screw that noise. These players, especially Mark Tex, are making indecent amounts of money playing this game. WE PAY FOR IT, buying tickets to attend games while supporting them.

Guys:
I'd love to be able to keep the used bat as well...I'm just saying that in some (maybe many) stadiums, security isn't going to give fans an option or the chance to make tracks with it. Although this is a home run ball story, it shows how aggressive stadium security can be. I was at the game where former White Sox SS Scott Fletcher hit his first MLB homer. I was dating a girl at the time who was a big Fletcher fan, so I dashed halfway around old Comiskey to offer the guy who got it a $50 bill for it to give to her as a gift. I found the guy, but the ball he had was a brand new one, not the HR itself. The guy told me that Sox security demanded the ball back, and gave him the new one in its place. It's easy to SAY you'll take off or battle for the item, but reality may just not allow you to be successful.

Dave M.
Chicago area

suicide_squeeze
08-01-2009, 11:04 PM
I hear ya, Dave......But once it flys into the seats......

http://www.clipartof.com/images/thumbnail/745.gif

"From my cold, dead hands".

On a more serious note, it is my understanding they have no legal basis to "demand" anything back once it leaves the field and goes into the seats.

The only reason people oblige security in a case like that is because they are caught off guard, and don't know any better.

sox83cubs84
08-02-2009, 02:47 PM
I hear ya, Dave......But once it flys into the seats......

http://www.clipartof.com/images/thumbnail/745.gif

"From my cold, dead hands".

On a more serious note, it is my understanding they have no legal basis to "demand" anything back once it leaves the field and goes into the seats.

The only reason people oblige security in a case like that is because they are caught off guard, and don't know any better.

You're right on that last sentence...most of the guys on Waveland have been approached for key home run balls, and have held their ground.

BTW...excellent emoticon. Charlton Heston would be proud.

Dave M.
Chicago area

David
08-02-2009, 04:15 PM
A lawyer told me fans have a right to stuff that flies into the stands.

BergerKing22784
08-02-2009, 06:35 PM
Is that really true? How come at basketball games if ball goes into crowd they have to give it back? Same with footballs kicked in pregame?

David
08-02-2009, 06:42 PM
That is a good question. One may be the social norms and pressure. Another may be that, whatever the keep it law, a team has a right to ask you to leave and/or not come back.

suicide_squeeze
08-02-2009, 08:21 PM
Is that really true? How come at basketball games if ball goes into crowd they have to give it back? Same with footballs kicked in pregame?

That is a good question, and I believe it falls under the "customary rule" law, if you will, of the game.

In basketball, they basically only use one game ball for the entire game. So on the rare occasions it does fly into the crowd, it is "customary" to give it back, usually to the ref who is there reaching out for it as if expected. I don't know what would happen if a fan refused to give it back, as I have never seen that happen. My guess is he would get boo'ed out of the arena, so you just won't see that happen. In any case, they obviously do have others in the event suave is there, and he makes a mad dash with a loose ball.;)

I have seen both examples at pro football games, and am fairly certain if you catch a football in the stands, it yours. The ones that don't know better sometimes hand it back to the guys on the field asking for it back.

But in major league baseball, it is customary that any baseball that flys into the seats is an instant souvenir. And that is the rub. Are bats, too?
To me, yes. I know as a fact......at a MLB game, if it enters the seats, in any part of the park......it's YOURS. It is your choice whether or not you want to give it back to the player.

(I know Derek Jeter entered the seats face first a few years back.....I would have liked to see a fan make off with him.....but somehow I think that may have been a tough one.) :p

TFig27
08-02-2009, 08:52 PM
That is a good question, and I believe it falls under the "customary rule" law, if you will, of the game.

In basketball, they basically only use one game ball for the entire game. So on the rare occasions it does fly into the crowd, it is "customary" to give it back, usually to the ref who is there reaching out for it as if expected. I don't know what would happen if a fan refused to give it back, as I have never seen that happen. My guess is he would get boo'ed out of the arena, so you just won't see that happen. In any case, they obviously do have others in the event suave is there, and he makes a mad dash with a loose ball.;)

I have seen both examples at pro football games, and am fairly certain if you catch a football in the stands, it yours. The ones that don't know better sometimes hand it back to the guys on the field asking for it back.

But in major league baseball, it is customary that any baseball that flys into the seats is an instant souvenir. And that is the rub. Are bats, too?
To me, yes. I know as a fact......at a MLB game, if it enters the seats, in any part of the park......it's YOURS. It is your choice whether or not you want to give it back to the player.

(I know Derek Jeter entered the seats face first a few years back.....I would have liked to see a fan make off with him.....but somehow I think that may have been a tough one.) :p

Actually if you notice, Jeter goes in with a hat and walks away without a hat. That disappeared pretty quick. :D

otismalibu
08-02-2009, 09:19 PM
I have seen both examples at pro football games, and am fairly certain if you catch a football in the stands, it yours.

At this year's SB, the net got hung up behind the uprights. Can't remember if it was a FG or PAT, but everyone in the area was ready when they saw the net malfunction. Went right over my buddy's head. Cool souvenir for someone.

Bobby Jenks
08-03-2009, 12:51 AM
I've seen this MANY times, when Jake Fox was in Tenn last year he would let his almost knobless bat slip right out of his hands. They would give the fan a Pro Stock from the $10.00 bat can in the Shop.

salukidave
08-03-2009, 02:39 AM
If a player wants to keep a bat, he should learn to hang on to it. It's ridiculous to try to make a fan cough up the bat after it came flying in the stands. A flying bat is dangerous. The least a player can do is let the fan keep it.

cjclong
08-03-2009, 07:48 AM
Since when does the rule "when something leaves the field " its no longer the players apply. Some players buy their own bats. If he drops it and you pick it up does that make it yours. If a fan drops his wallet on the field does a player get to keep it. While it would be disappointing for a collector, I understand the player taking it back. That doesn't always happen. At a Rangers game this year I saw Josh Hamilton throw his bat a long way into the stands and they let the fan keep it which was great, but that may be the exception.

NEFAN
08-03-2009, 09:43 AM
If a bat, ball, puck or whatever, enters the stands hits you and hurts you, you can not hold the team liable. I'm keeping it!

flaco1801
08-03-2009, 10:06 AM
so the player "loses" his bat in the crowd... its his game bat and was prepared for the game..... what happens when he breaks his bat on a pitched ball? does the game stop? the players have more than 1 bat waitting to be used... the player should be grateful the fan wasnt hurt...that bat comes flyin at me, its mine.

cjclong
08-03-2009, 10:58 AM
If a fielding glove accidentally fell off a players hand in the stands would it belong to a fan. Come on, it would be nice if they let fans keep a bat, but a bat is part of the players equipment. Its not the same thing as a ball. The argument that if a player wants to keep his bat he should hang on to it makes no more sense than saying if a fan drops his wallet or watch on the field it belongs to the players or the team because if the fan wants to keep his watch or wallet he should hang on to it.

grenda12
08-03-2009, 12:18 PM
Tex takes a huge swing and by accident lets go of the bat. It flys over the dug out into the stands and an older gentleman got it. Security ran over to the fan and took the bat back and gave it to Tex. Tex inturn gave security a Game Issued bat to give to the fan.

Just in case anyone wanted to know.

Did you see when a younger guy ran down the aisle to the bat and tried to yank it away from the older couple.

David
08-03-2009, 12:28 PM
One reason to side with the fan who catches a bat is the team says if a an errant slice of bat flies into the stands and pierces a fan's skull or knocks out a kid the team has no responsibility. Considering this, it's tough not side with the fan who catches a bat and wants to keep it.

cjclong
08-03-2009, 01:14 PM
Look, I agree its great for the fan to get to keep the bat. If I got one I would want to keep it also. And I thought it was great when the Rangers let the fan keep the Hamilton bat he let go of that flew into the stands. But the people who simply say that they are going to keep the bat no matter what had better realize they could be dealing with security and could be prosecuted for theft, although I doubt a team would do it, if they tried to run off with the bat. If a team lets a fan keep the bat, its their gift to the fan. Its not because the fan owns it.

Capital-Sports
08-03-2009, 01:27 PM
Im a big fan ofMark Teiria, he's cool

kudu
08-03-2009, 02:20 PM
Are there any season ticket holders here that have seats near the field/dugout? Im wondering if it says anything in the rules and regulations for season ticket holders.

suicide_squeeze
08-03-2009, 03:31 PM
Look, I agree its great for the fan to get to keep the bat. If I got one I would want to keep it also. And I thought it was great when the Rangers let the fan keep the Hamilton bat he let go of that flew into the stands. But the people who simply say that they are going to keep the bat no matter what had better realize they could be dealing with security and could be prosecuted for theft, although I doubt a team would do it, if they tried to run off with the bat. If a team lets a fan keep the bat, its their gift to the fan. Its not because the fan owns it.


cjclong,

I am speaking as a Dodger's fan who understands the rules at Dodger Stadium. The ticket, if you read the back, has a few sections. One of them addresses the inherent risk of entering Dodger Stadium. It states very clearly that you accept all risk associated with any bat or ball thrown in to seats, and do not hold any Dodger representative or player responsible.

NOWHERE does it address what happens to a specific item that flies into the seats. That means......if it enters the seats, and you get your hands on it, it's YOURS. Period.

Your argument about a players glove is just greasping for straws.....and if someone is stupid enough to be in a position where they are hurling their wallet onto the playing field, then they deserve to lose it.

Gloves are pretty sacred, and if a player's glove ended up in the seats for any reason, you can darn sure bet there is a PLAYER attached to it. I can't imagine any fan would be stupid enough to try to make off with a player's glove while the player was trying to make a spectacular play.

The bat flying into the seats?......THAT'S a diffeent story.

If it comes my way.........."FROM MY COLD, DEAD HANDS" is the only way ANYBODY is taking it from me. Security will be told, in NO uncertain terms, where they can get off if they come up to me while I'm holding that bat. It's my right to keep it at that point. If I'm agreeing to the inherent risk of being possibly injured by some dumb player who can't grip his bat correctly, then he had better accept the fact that his projectile is fair game for anyone assuming that risk.

For you to say someone in that position is facing theft charges is completely false, and silly. Where and what are you basing that on?

You are mistaken.....at least as far as Dodger Stadium is concerned. And I'm sure most, if not all, ballparks are the same. As I said earlier on in this post, the only fans that would give the bat back are ones that just don't care to keep it, are too timid to argue the issue, or just don't know any better.

mattmueller
08-03-2009, 04:13 PM
Your ticket gives you the right to enter the stadium and to view the game. Period. It does not give you the legal right to possession of anything that you may happen to come across while in the stadium, batted ball, thrown bat, or otherwise. The team or player, as owner of any item that happens to make it into the stands, has every legal right to ask for it back. Why? Because they own it.

If you go to the movies, do you think your ticket allows you the right to take the popcorn machine home with you because you think it would be nice to have it in your home?

Matt

suicide_squeeze
08-03-2009, 05:48 PM
Your ticket gives you the right to enter the stadium and to view the game. Period. It does not give you the legal right to possession of anything that you may happen to come across while in the stadium, batted ball, thrown bat, or otherwise. The team or player, as owner of any item that happens to make it into the stands, has every legal right to ask for it back. Why? Because they own it.

If you go to the movies, do you think your ticket allows you the right to take the popcorn machine home with you because you think it would be nice to have it in your home?

Matt

Matt,

With all due respect......you are mistaken. You are trying to make a comparison to something that has no similarity whatsoever.

Listen, if your argument holds water, then why don't security guards, or team personel/representatives, demand back milestone homerun balls when hit? What thet do is send out gophers (a rep from the front office, a MLB authenticator, and security) to "make a deal"....an offer for the ball with the fan that caught it.

Why? Why not just demand it back?


Because it's not theirs to make those demands. Once a ball goes into the seats, it's the property of the fan who caught it. They have the rights to that seat.....like rental rights.......for that game. If they end up with a souvenir because of being there....fabulous!!!

That's why there was a law suit over the right's of ownership for Barry Bonds' 73rd home run ball of 2001. Two guys claimed they owned it. You didn't see Giants management step in and say "Hey, we own that ball, so hand it back!"

The same goes for any object leaving the field. ANY OBJECT. I mentioned earlier, of course that doesn't include a player. And a glove is usually on the hand of a player if that ends up in the stands.

But a bat, let go by the guy at the plate.......TOO BAD! That's one of the benefits of being at a game.

Is has alway been a nice gesture on the part of the fan to hand the bat back to a player who wants it.....but not a requirement. Look into it....you'll see.

David
08-03-2009, 07:45 PM
As noted above, that the fans got to keep and resell the Barry Bonds and Mark McGwire's record setting home run baseballs proves the point. If the Giants or A's could have demanded the balls back they would have, if only to give them to the players. Additionally note that one of the Bonds home run balls when through the courts for the purpose of deciding ownership, and the judge decided that a fan was the proper owner.

Fnazxc0114
08-03-2009, 08:54 PM
teix wasnt well respected in texas so im not surprised.

mattmueller
08-03-2009, 10:01 PM
Not a lawyer, but let me expand my earlier statements on ownership of things in the stadium. MLB or the team (varying depending on the item) does have ownership of the item. If I recall reading the legal issues on the McGwire and Bonds cases correctly, it is my understanding of the legal principles that allows fans to keep balls that make their way to the stands via home run, toss by player after a foul ball etc. is that of intentional abandonment. The team/MLB owns the ball, but has intentionally given up the ownership rights to it once it reaches the stands because they let the ball go without any intention of retrieving it. This abandonment premise has been built based on 100+ years of this tradition of fans keeping the balls, as well as in part codified by teams that put statements on signs and backs of ticket stubs indicating ~"fans may keep balls hit into the stands".

This is much different than bats, helmets, jerseys, etc. which make their way into the stands. Because there is consistent history of teams retrieving these items (e.g. NOT intentionally abandoning them) if they get to the seats, and because there are no signs or tickets that say "you can keep bats that end up in the stands", teams have consistently invoked their rights to retain the property. Therefore, there is no common law abandonment case, and those items remain the property of the team / MLB.

Again, not a lawyer, just my understanding of the legal arguments behind the Bonds HR ball case and as it applies to random equipment ending up in the stands.

Matt

cjclong
08-04-2009, 08:14 AM
Mattmueller, very good analysis. Suicide Squeeze says because there is nothing on the ticket about objects in the stands he gets to keep it. The other side of the coin is that nothing on the ticket says he does get to keep it. Using that logic nothing on the ticket says he can't get a screwdriver and unscrew his seat and take it home after the game. Want to use the nothing on the ticket says I couldn't take the seat home defense? A number of players buy their own bats for whatever reason. If the player accidentally drops (throws) a bat in the stands how is the player any less the owner. Using Squeeze's logic if he followed someone down the street and they droped something he could pick it up and run off with it Accidentally losing something is not abandoning ownership. I think it is great if teams let people keep bats thrown into the stands. But Squeeze seems to think he has a second amendment right to keep a bat that goes into the stands and I think if a team ever contests it he would find out they could take the bat from his hands whether they are cold and dead or not. And I would advise him not to slug a security person unless he wants a conviction for assault.

saybow69
09-01-2009, 04:38 PM
no its actauly not a fact that the bat is yours! buddy at tiger`s game 3 weeks ago caught marcus thames bat, ushers took him and he had to give marcus thames bat back, was given a signed ball instead? players usually go over to stands themselves and ask for bat back and give the fan a batting practice bat instead to look good and not get booed for taking bat back, without giving fan something in return, but more and more now, ushers are taking care of this, i have talked to another fan who caught bat, had to give back and got an old bp bat instead, but NO! a bat is not a fans!! must give back! 99% of time they do get to keep or our given another bat or ball, but there is no rule that player has to to do this! but there is a rule that fan must give bat back to player! usher told friend! so know for fact!! a ball yes!! but bat is not yours!!