I Can No Longer Keep My Opinion About Michael Vick To Myself!

[3arod13]

I Can No Longer Keep My Opinion About Michael Vick To Myself!

As a prior Legal Officer, it really irrates me to see that Michael Vick comitted a crime, served his punishment for his crime, and then society wants to keep him down and hold it against him, without giving him an opportunity to prove himself first.

What happened to society wanting to punish people for their crimes, then wanting them to come back to society and do good things? Don't we need to give them an opporunity to do so first, before we hold them down immediately after they completed their punishment?

I'm realize people aren't perfect. They make mistakes and definately make bad choices. And if they do, they are punished. In Michael Vicks case, he did wrong, served his punishment, now lets give him an opportunity to do right.

If Vick was a repeated offender, after society gave him numerous opportunities to do right, then bash him. Then don't trust him. In Vicks case, we haven't given him that opportunity to see what good things he can/will do. How about doing so first, before we continue to hold him down for his past mistake, and before he has an opportuntity to do good.

Do I defend him for what he did? Of course not! But he served him punishment. Let's stop continuing to punish him!

Regards, Tony

[spartakid]

I'm not really familiar with what's been going on recently with the case, I know he served his time and such. How is he being "held down" and punished as you say? If you mean that people are talking badly about him than that's not a punishment, but an opinion. Can you elaborate as to what's happened to him after his sentence that's unfair? Ricardo

[3arod13]

I'm not really familiar with what's been going on recently with the case, I know he served his time and such. How is he being "held down" and punished as you say? If you mean that people are talking badly about him than that's not a punishment, but an opinion. Can you elaborate as to what's happened to him after his sentence that's unfair? Ricardo

NFL...NFL has the right to do as they want...as it's a business. They owe Vick nothing. But my opinion is that Vick served his punishment for his crime, and don't believe the NFL should still continue to hold it against him. The thing he did do to the NFL and the Falcons was lie to them. I would just hope they would give him an opportunity to learn from his mistake and not hold it against him.

Just my opinion.

Regards, Tony

[spartakid]

So are they not allowing him to play anymore?

[3arod13]

Outside of Vicks situation, it happens in many other situations. People make mistakes, and it's held against them forever.

I beleive if you are a repeated offender, then you deserve everything you get. You had an opportunity to learn from your mistake, then do right. If not, then you get what you get.

I guess that's my point. Whether Vice or anyone else. After a first offense, give them an opportunity to move foward.

Regards, Tony

[3arod13]

So are they not allowing him to play anymore?

Not yet. That's still being debated. I just hope they give him an opportunity to move on and prove himself.

Regards, Tony

[spartakid]

Well like I said I don't know the specifics of the case because I don't closely follow football, but like you said it's a business. Vick blatantly lied and I'm sure cost the team a lot of money. I personally have a problem with the type of crime. Although I believe it's not considered a violent crime because it wasn't against humans, it takes a certain kind of person to do what he did. Fighting dogs for FUN, disgusting. Frankly, no one probably wants him on there team because of the public backlash they'll face. I agree that he's served his time, but I think someone that virtually kills for fun, deserves whatever happens to them even after they've been released from prison. Vick knew what he was doing, he's a grown man, and he got caught... The thing that really annoys me is that someone who has so much, decides they are going to throw it all (or at least a lot) away by doing something so idiotic. It's really pitiful, but as you can see I don't feel bad for him whatsoever.

[3arod13]

As stated, as a prior Legal Officer, I've seen it so many times. Sailors committed offense, were punished, and it was continuously held agianst them. How can someone move forward and do good, when everyone reminds them of what they did wrong, and holds it against them.

I just believe in giving people an opportunity to improve themselves, after doing wrong. That's all.

Regards, Tony

[3arod13]

Well like I said I don't know the specifics of the case because I don't closely follow football, but like you said it's a business. Vick blatantly lied and I'm sure cost the team a lot of money. I personally have a problem with the type of crime. Although I believe it's not considered a violent crime because it wasn't against humans, it takes a certain kind of person to do what he did. Fighting dogs for FUN, disgusting. Frankly, no one probably wants him on there team because of the public backlash they'll face. I agree that he's served his time, but I think someone that virtually kills for fun, deserves whatever happens to them even after they've been released from prison. Vick knew what he was doing, he's a grown man, and he got caught... The thing that really annoys me is that someone who has so much, decides they are going to throw it all (or at least a lot) away by doing something so idiotic. It's really pitiful, but as you can see I don't feel bad for him whatsoever.

I agree with you 100%, and am in no way downplaying the crime Vick committed. My point only is, he comitted a crime, served his punishment, now let's give him an opportunity to do right.

Regards, Tony

[spartakid]

Certainly, I hope he does turn his life around, but it's going to take a lot for people to forgive him, if they ever will at all...

[3arod13]

Certainly, I hope he does turn his life around, but it's going to take a lot for people to forgive him, if they ever will at all...

Agree and understand! Great points!

Regards, Tony

[oakesc8855]

I Can No Longer Keep My Opinion About Michael Vick To Myself!

As a prior Legal Officer, it really irrates me to see that Michael Vick comitted a crime, served his punishment for his crime, and then society wants to keep him down and hold it against him, without giving him an opportunity to prove himself first.

What happened to society wanting to punish people for their crimes, then wanting them to come back to society and do good things? Don't we need to give them an opporunity to do so first, before we hold them down immediately after they completed their punishment?

I'm realize people aren't perfect. They make mistakes and definately make bad choices. And if they do, they are punished. In Michael Vicks case, he did wrong, served his punishment, now lets give him an opportunity to do right.

If Vick was a repeated offender, after society gave him numerous opportunities to do right, then bash him. Then don't trust him. In Vicks case, we haven't given him that opportunity to see what good things he can/will do. How about doing so first, before we continue to hold him down for his past mistake, and before he has an opportuntity to do good.

Do I defend him for what he did? Of course not! But he served him punishment. Let's stop continuing to punish him!

Regards, Tony

Wow, I'm sorry but we have VERY different opinions on this and I would go as far as to say what you said is almost ignorant. This man forced dogs to fight each other to the death and when losing dogs didnt die he tortured and killed dogs, electicuting and drownding them. Someone who thinks that they are so far above the law that they can do something like this deserves to suffer the consequences and part of that is public scrutiny for being a idiot and selfless person. I'm glad he is bankrupt and I hope that he can turn the page and do good things with his life and stop being a thug, but at this point that is exactly what he is... Just like when someone loses your trust after you are mad at them for a certain period of time you dont just give them the trust back, they have to earn it, just like Vick has to earn the publics respect, and sitting in a jail cell dosent do it for me or most folks.

[dirtyla2000]

Wow, I'm sorry but we have VERY different opinions on this and I would go as far as to say what you said is almost ignorant. This man forced dogs to fight each other to the death and when losing dogs didnt die he tortured and killed dogs, electicuting and drownding them. Someone who thinks that they are so far above the law that they can do something like this deserves to suffer the consequences and part of that is public scrutiny for being a idiot and selfless person. I'm glad he is bankrupt and I hope that he can turn the page and do good things with his life and stop being a thug, but at this point that is exactly what he is... Just like when someone loses your trust after you are mad at them for a certain period of time you dont just give them the trust back, they have to earn it, just like Vick has to earn the publics respect, and sitting in a jail cell dosent do it for me or most folks.
Second chance is what seperates us from savages,not second and thirds however!YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY WRONG!

[3arod13]

Wow, I'm sorry but we have VERY different opinions on this and I would go as far as to say what you said is almost ignorant. This man forced dogs to fight each other to the death and when losing dogs didnt die he tortured and killed dogs, electicuting and drownding them. Someone who thinks that they are so far above the law that they can do something like this deserves to suffer the consequences and part of that is public scrutiny for being a idiot and selfless person. I'm glad he is bankrupt and I hope that he can turn the page and do good things with his life and stop being a thug, but at this point that is exactly what he is... Just like when someone loses your trust after you are mad at them for a certain period of time you dont just give them the trust back, they have to earn it, just like Vick has to earn the publics respect, and sitting in a jail cell dosent do it for me or most folks.

Ignorant??? While I do appreciate and respect your opinion, in the future, make them without having to insulting someone.

[bigtime59]

My guess is that Vick is not at all sorry for what he did...but very sorry he got caught. It takes a "special kind of guy" to do what he did to those dogs, and if I'm the NFL, that's exactly the kind of guy I want nowhere near my multi-billion dollar entertainment business.
Vick is a liar and a man who killed dogs for sport. He's a miserable cretin who is owed a livelihood by...no one.

[cordovacollector]

He is now free to apply for work where he desires. Companies are allowed the option not to hire him or not, like any other person they are looking to hire. If the NFL decides they do not want to hire him, he is free to look elsewhere for employment and fill out applications like the rest of us. He should be given no extra consideration to for the NFL to "have" to allow him to play. Other professions have morality clauses and people are expected to meet those expectations.

Personally, I would hope he is not hired to play football again where youth are likely to consider him a star. He tarnished that all by himself. He is free now to look for another job -- all by himself.

[NEFAN]

Precedents have been set, other "criminals" have been allowed to remain to the NFL as well as other major sports. He should be allowed to return and earn a living. I don't condone in any way what he did, but he paid the price. If he didn't learn he'll screw up again and that will be it for him.

[gingi79]

I am amazed that the average fan allows other criminals to rejoin the NFL without punishment but Vick is shunned. Dogs are man's best friend and while I personally don't think he should get a tryout from owners because of the PR backlash, money and winning are all that matters.

He didn't kill a human being (like a certain Ravens HOF LB) he didn't take steroids (Vikings and Saints can't be suspended for this huh?) and he doesn't play for the Bengals, who could populate a county jail all by themselves. The Rickey Williams fiasco, Adam Pacman Jones, Matt Jones. How many guys have at least one DWI? Let's not even get started on players who are now in the HOF after drugs, adultery and assault (Irvin, LT, etc)

Just like the steroid mess in MLB, if a guy can help you win a title, fans will forgive anything. If Vick signs with the Raiders and they win the Super Bowl, how many fans are going to care about his past?

What he did was wrong and I'm the first to jump on my soapbox and decry it. But just like so many other opinions, mine doesn't really matter. I don't own a team or control the NFL. I'd love to stand here and say that the owners will start caring about morality and accountibility but I think they'd sign Charles Manson if he could run a 4.20 40.

[oakesc8855]

Ignorant??? While I do appreciate and respect your opinion, in the future, make them without having to insulting someone.

Sorry, not trying to insult you but I think some of the things you said come across as ignorant, nothing personal I'm just a straight forward person.

[kingjammy24]

hot damn, another michael vick thread! i bet this one's gonna be totally different than the previous one:

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=25903

if i'm following this new one so far, what i'm gathering is that there are two main schools of thought; in summary:

1) vick deserves to play in the NFL
2) no he doesn't

i bet if we just take this new one for another 100 posts or so, we can all totally come to an agreement.

even vick wouldn't kick a dead horse this much.

rudy.

[oakesc8855]

Just to make things clear as of my opinion clear I think he should have the oppurtunity to play after he serves a suspension if he gets one from Goodell I just think that he deserves the public scruitny he is going to get.

[ndevlin]

Im more upset over the Stallworth case. 20 some odd days for killing someone!

He took it upon himself to get drunk, get behind the wheel, then hit and kill a person. His sentence....24 days in jail. Pathetic. Just pathetic.

If Vick gets a year in jail for killing dogs, then that little punk Stallworth should get at least 5 for killing a person.(I personally think more).

Im not saying one case is more important than the other, but they are definitely unbalanced. I mean think about it....24 days in jail for taking a life....sheesh.


Id love to see Stallworth get a 10+ yr sentence.

[earlywynnfan]

Didn't I just read that the guy who stole Lance Armstrong's bike got 3 years?? The whole thing is skewed.

And am I the only one who was disgusted by the hero's welcome that Manny got? I know he didn't kill anyone, I'm not equating it to that, but I think it shows that baseballs fans don't care beans about steroids and the like. Juice them all up, we'll cheer away!!

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

[suicide_squeeze]

hot damn, another michael vick thread! i bet this one's gonna be totally different than the previous one:

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=25903

if i'm following this new one so far, what i'm gathering is that there are two main schools of thought; in summary:

1) vick deserves to play in the NFL
2) no he doesn't

i bet if we just take this new one for another 100 posts or so, we can all totally come to an agreement.

even vick wouldn't kick a dead horse this much.

rudy.

In all fairness to Tony (who started this particular thread), he feels strongly about "Do the crime, do the time".......and then leave the guy alone so he can make amends with himself and society.

There have been some good comments here in this thread. But I'll take it one step further.

If the scum in our society that perpetrates crimes like this weren't deeply twisted and mal-adjusted in the first place, these crimes wouldn't happen. But, there ARE twisted infected unwired individuals like Vick who do these sick things. Some get caught, some do time.

The question of whether or not he should be allowed back into society, play football, etc. is in my opinion, silly and missing the point.


The POINT here is, this guy has been identified as a cruel, sick, murdering bastard. This is not something you can just laugh off, say "I'm sorry, I made some wrong decisions in my life, I'll just make sure not to do them again."

NORMAL PEOPLE don't do sick things like this. This freak is now free to go do as he see's fit.

And we have already seen what "his view" is of what to do on his spare time. Any wrath he get's is just an expression of the outrage against his prior actions which are not comparible to making a left turn through a red light at a busy intersection. This guy bought a freaking HOUSE in the backwoods to perpetrate these heiness deeds!!! Additionally, the backlash is about further having to cope with the uncomfortable fact that this guy is now walking around in our society again. People have a right to be outraged, upset, and aggitated by the pure sight of him. He's got a tough road to hoe in from of him, and I don't know if he has the character to overcome it.

You see, people, you can cage the tiger for wandering onto your backyard and eating your pets......but once you release him, he still has that same genetic make-up inside.

In my opinion, he should have a $12.00 an hour security guard job watching over a large storage wherehouse in an outback town far away from society.

But that's just me.

[suicide_squeeze]

Didn't I just read that the guy who stole Lance Armstrong's bike got 3 years?? The whole thing is skewed.

And am I the only one who was disgusted by the hero's welcome that Manny got? I know he didn't kill anyone, I'm not equating it to that, but I think it shows that baseballs fans don't care beans about steroids and the like. Juice them all up, we'll cheer away!!

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com


Ken,

I can only speak for myself.

But I posted on the Manny debacle when it happened. I lost ALL respect for him. He is yet another embarrassment that we all have to live through, because we do give second chances. And, to make matters worse, I am a HUGE Dodger fan.

But I just bought my James Loney game used jersey from the GUU Store, got it yesterday. It's a beauty, tons of use. James doesn't put up the numbers Manny does, but I know James is clean. I respect him. I love the guy, he does charity word in our city, he is everything RIGHT about baseball.

All I am looking for in regards to Manny these days is........his retirement.

Sorry for getting off topic, but I just wanted you to know there are people out here who care about what is right.

[3arod13]

Didn't I just read that the guy who stole Lance Armstrong's bike got 3 years?? The whole thing is skewed.

And am I the only one who was disgusted by the hero's welcome that Manny got? I know he didn't kill anyone, I'm not equating it to that, but I think it shows that baseballs fans don't care beans about steroids and the like. Juice them all up, we'll cheer away!!

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

Not the only one:

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=26893

[suicide_squeeze]

Im more upset over the Stallworth case. 20 some odd days for killing someone!

He took it upon himself to get drunk, get behind the wheel, then hit and kill a person. His sentence....24 days in jail. Pathetic. Just pathetic.

If Vick gets a year in jail for killing dogs, then that little punk Stallworth should get at least 5 for killing a person.(I personally think more).

Im not saying one case is more important than the other, but they are definitely unbalanced. I mean think about it....24 days in jail for taking a life....sheesh.


Id love to see Stallworth get a 10+ yr sentence.


Nate,

I believe this has been commented on before, but I'll take a stab at trying to make you feel a biut better for the (arguably) light sentence....

The MAJOR difference between Vick's crime, and Stallworth's accident is not man vs. dog, not ultimate effect of losing a few dogs vs. losing a member of a family who was a father, bread winner, etc.......

.....it was "intent".

Stallworth, although responsible and absolutely accountable for drinking and then getting behind the wheel of a vehicle and causing a death, as horrible as that is, was an accident. He never intended to kill anybody.

Michael Vick,inversely, planned and masterminded an intricate dog-fighting ring while financially backing the whole operation, with the intent to carry on dog fighting to the death on a regular basis.

The "intent" behind what Michael Vick did, and the absense of intent in what occured due to Stallworth's bad decision......are two entirely different things, and you can see the recognized results of that in the sentences each got.

I am not arguing in any way with your point of view, I am just trying to ease your frustration by explaining the views of law and what punishments are based on. We, as a society, however, may lean more towards your view so feel free to be angry, just understand why these things happen as they do so you it won't eat at your gut. Personally, with all of the old news about "drinking and driving" in this day and age, I happen to agree with you......it's rediculous at this point in time for anyone who makes this ongoing mistake to be let off so easy.....but it happens.

[3arod13]

In all fairness to Tony (who started this particular thread), he feels strongly about "Do the crime, do the time".......and then leave the guy alone so he can make amends with himself and society.

Pretty much my point. Shouldn't have used Vick as the example though.

[ndevlin]

Nate,

I believe this has been commented on before, but I'll take a stab at trying to make you feel a biut better for the (arguably) light sentence....

The MAJOR difference between Vick's crime, and Stallworth's accident is not man vs. dog, not ultimate effect of losing a few dogs vs. losing a member of a family who was a father, bread winner, etc.......

.....it was "intent".

Stallworth, although responsible and absolutely accountable for drinking and then getting behind the wheel of a vehicle and causing a death, as horrible as that is, was an accident. He never intended to kill anybody.

Michael Vick,inversely, planned and masterminded an intricate dog-fighting ring while financially backing the whole operation, with the intent to carry on dog fighting to the death on a regular basis.

The "intent" behind what Michael Vick did, and the absense of intent in what occured due to Stallworth's bad decision......are two entirely different things, and you can see the recognized results of that in the sentences each got.

I am not arguing in any way with your point of view, I am just trying to ease your frustration by explaining the views of law and what punishments are based on. We, as a society, however, may lean more towards your view so feel free to be angry, just understand why these things happen as they do so you it won't eat at your gut. Personally, with all of the old news about "drinking and driving" in this day and age, I happen to agree with you......it's rediculous at this point in time for anyone who makes this ongoing mistake to be let off so easy.....but it happens.

Yeah, I know that Stallworth had no intentions of killing anyone. But he did intend to get drunk, then decided to get behind the wheel. Though he didnt mean to kill anyone, he still did. And I think that should be a longer sentence than 24 days in jail. To me, thats absurd.

[Capital-Sports]

I think he should work the night shift at Wal Mart stocking shelves.

[mr.miracle]

My problem with this and it has nothing to do with Vick whatsoever is that I believe that pro sports teams like many many companies in America have done, should not hire or employ convicted felons, i.e. allow them to compete and or play in the league. There are many, many careers, jobs, companies that convicted felons are either barred from working in such as Financial Advisor what I used to do, and my current career in food service in a healthcare environment, neither the hospital that I work in nor the company as a contractor that I work for will employ or hire convicted felons. Many companies from restaurants, to retail, to health care, financial services etc. will not employ convicted felons or taking it one step further, your license is permanently pulled and you may never work in that industry again.

Although this is a different situation altogether, how many people would like to see Bernie Madoff get out of jail (which he never will) and begin working as a Financial Advisor/fund manager again? That would be a great idea would it not?

Perhaps if this strategy was employed by MLB, NBA, NFL, NHL etc. it would send a strong message that the leagues are not going to put up with this nonsense. After all, like it or not, these guys are role models for kids and when you are turning on the tv every other week and seeing the latest athlete get arrested or suspended for god knows what, it really send a very bad message that the almight dollar is far more important than the character of the individuals employed by said company or league.

[dirtyla2000]

In all fairness to Tony (who started this particular thread), he feels strongly about "Do the crime, do the time".......and then leave the guy alone so he can make amends with himself and society.

There have been some good comments here in this thread. But I'll take it one step further.

If the scum in our society that perpetrates crimes like this weren't deeply twisted and mal-adjusted in the first place, these crimes wouldn't happen. But, there ARE twisted infected unwired individuals like Vick who do these sick things. Some get caught, some do time.

The question of whether or not he should be allowed back into society, play football, etc. is in my opinion, silly and missing the point.


The POINT here is, this guy has been identified as a cruel, sick, murdering bastard. This is not something you can just laugh off, say "I'm sorry, I made some wrong decisions in my life, I'll just make sure not to do them again."

NORMAL PEOPLE don't do sick things like this. This freak is now free to go do as he see's fit.

And we have already seen what "his view" is of what to do on his spare time. Any wrath he get's is just an expression of the outrage against his prior actions which are not comparible to making a left turn through a red light at a busy intersection. This guy bought a freaking HOUSE in the backwoods to perpetrate these heiness deeds!!! Additionally, the backlash is about further having to cope with the uncomfortable fact that this guy is now walking around in our society again. People have a right to be outraged, upset, and aggitated by the pure sight of him. He's got a tough road to hoe in from of him, and I don't know if he has the character to overcome it.

You see, people, you can cage the tiger for wandering onto your backyard and eating your pets......but once you release him, he still has that same genetic make-up inside.

In my opinion, he should have a $12.00 an hour security guard job watching over a large storage wherehouse in an outback town far away from society.

But that's just me.
YOU MURDER HUMANS NOT DOGS,STALLWORTH IS A MURDERER,

[camarokids]

Can we start talking game used stuff now? please.....

[both-teams-played-hard]

Can we start talking game used stuff now? please.....
That is a good idea.

[whatupyos]

To Tony and the rest who side with him:

I see your point. Its valid and understandable. Let me ask a few rhetorical questions.

1) Would you let OJ Simpson take your wife out?

2) Would you let Michael Jackson babysit your kids?

3) Would you let Michael Vick puppy sit your dogs?

Case in point. You can't blame people for having an opinion about not wanting to give them a second chance.

Aaron

[suicide_squeeze]

YOU MURDER HUMANS NOT DOGS,STALLWORTH IS A MURDERER,


Well I suppose that's all a point of view, even if from a legal standpoint. But if you are saying Vick and his clan didn't murder dogs, then you're just looking for an argument for argument's sake.

Killing...murdering...slaughtering...taking the life of.......manslaughter......I mean if you want to get down to it, the only difference between each is the legality that differentiates them from eachother.

But to say you can't murder a dog for the sake of mincing words is finding a way to murder common sense....congratulations.

[dirtyla2000]

Well I suppose that's all a point of view, even if from a legal standpoint. But if you are saying Vick and his clan didn't murder dogs, then you're just looking for an argument for argument's sake.

Killing...murdering...slaughtering...taking the life of.......manslaughter......I mean if you want to get down to it, the only difference between each is the legality that differentiates them from eachother.

But to say you can't murder a dog for the sake of mincing words is finding a way to murder common sense....congratulations.
CURIOUS,DO YOU HATE ASIAN COUNTRIES THAT EAT DOGS? ARENT THEY MURDERERS TOO!

[3arod13]

Can we start talking game used stuff now? please.....


Agree! Sorry I started this thread. Too many differences of opinions, where people feel very strongly about their opinions, and take offense to others opinions if not on track with theirs.

Intent was not for this to turn into what it has become. I shouldn't have used Vick as the example.

Please don't add to this thread. It has nowhere else to go but down hill.

Regards, Tony

[camarokids]

Agree! Sorry I started this thread. Too many differences of opinions, where people feel very strongly about their opinions, and take offense to others opinions if not on track with theirs.

Intent was not for this to turn into what it has become. I shouldn't have used Vick as the example.

Please don't add to this thread. It has nowhere else to go but down hill.

Regards, Tony

No disrespect intended towards you Tony with my post, as you are a fine member to this board.

Just as you said all the differing opinions and so on.....

Any new Arod bats?

[ndevlin]

No disrespect intended towards you Tony with my post, as you are a fine member to this board.

Just as you said all the differing opinions and so on.....

Any new Arod bats?


How bout them Royals David??

[camarokids]

How bout them Royals David??


Hey Nate,
It was great meeting you and seeing Kaufman Stadium. I was impressed with the entire KC Area. I was equally impressed with all the beautiful women we saw there :p:D. My only regret was missing BP.