Quite a bidding war

[Swoboda4]

I can't help but mention the recent Kevin McReynolds Mets helmet auction on e-bay which was won by TNT. I didn't want to showcase it prior to its ending but I'm glad I didn't get involved at the expense of other items I recently got, because I obviously would not have won.
http://i.ebayimg.com/16/!BWOjr)!!2k~$(KGrHgoH-EUEjlLluH(EBKWf2Ryhjw~~_12.JPG
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a60/TNT_TOYS/IMG_4263.jpg
http://cgi.ebay.com/KEVIN-McREYNOLDS-GAME-USED-NEW-YORK-METS-BATTING-HELMET_W0QQitemZ150358513333QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_ DefaultDomain_0?hash=item230210d6b5&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A10%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C29 4%3A50

[jppopma]

I was looking at a Mark Dewey jersey he had up. The bidding on that went over my snipe and I was suprised how much interest there was in a common jersey. Either way, good job by TNT on the sales.

[cbb5]

Couple of things that bugged me about that belmet. I could be wrong, but I looked back at some pictures and I could swear that the Mets always used blue dymo tape. Secondly, In 1987, I believe the Mets started to use the raised NY orange logo instead of the one shown on the Mac helmet (with the clear portion outside of the orange). Any thoughts? Check out Straws NY from 1987:
http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/53144742/Getty-Images-Sport

[Swoboda4]

Well this is a card from 1987, so its possible the sticker version of the "NY" is OK to have on a McReynolds helmet. I can't say for certain what color the Dyno-tape is.

http://i20.ebayimg.com/06/i/000/80/b7/3116_1.JPG

[TNTtoys]

Robert,

Just a big thank you in order for you...

First, for starting this thread, which highlighted a recent item I sold over ebay (damn--why couldn't you have started it before it finished!!! :) )

And secondly (and more importantly) for supplying the photo evidence of McReynolds wearing the helmet (or at very worst, a style match) during the 1987 season.

Kind regards,
Nick

[Swoboda4]

Nick,I'm an idiot because I thought you were winning the auction ,not actually the seller. I didn't want other people sniping you. E-bay gave me a new formatted display page and I wasn't used to seeing the seller at the right side. Another reason why you shouldn't drink and then go on the internet. I know, bidders ID are not shown now.

I actually believe it to be a photo match based on the raised corners of the NY sticker. But I cant provide a clear enough image of the Fleer card.

Very nice item. Let me know if you sell a McReynolds batting practice pull-over w/name on back.
Robert
http://cache1.asset-cache.net/xc/2549349.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF1934A2752006EF5F0EDAC067EAE3A1DA0E5 E30A760B0D811297

[cbb5]

I have no doubt it's an official Mets helmet. I have a Rick Aguilera from 88 and the inside is almost identical with the customization. I just thought maybe it was a common players or extra helmet and someone doctored it or who knows. Like I said the black tape and the sticker jumped out at me but I've been wrong before and will again:) That fleer card pic was most likely taken in ST, so maybe it was Mac's ST helmet.

[TNTtoys]

I have no doubt it's an official Mets helmet. I have a Rick Aguilera from 88 and the inside is almost identical with the customization. I just thought maybe it was a common players or extra helmet and someone doctored it or who knows. Like I said the black tape and the sticker jumped out at me but I've been wrong before and will again:) That fleer card pic was most likely taken in ST, so maybe it was Mac's ST helmet.

I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that the helmet I sold was McReynolds' helmet from the late 1980s; if not the exact helmet he wore on the card posted by Robert.

I also don't believe that players went through helmets the way they do now (e.g. helmets for spring training that were collected by agents/memorabila middlemen; then many other helmets worn by the player and collected at various points during the season). Players got far more use out of their helmets back then, and likely wore them all year or even for multiple years. I don't buy into a helmet having been worn just for 1987 spring training.

The card is from the Fleer Update set which would have come out later in the year 1987. The photo could be from spring training that year or even from pre-game batting practice. The same style jersey would have been worn on each occasion.

Finally, if anyone was clever enough to doctor a late 80's Mets helmet, surely they could have picked a more popular player than McReynolds! To name a few -- Keith Hernandez, Darryl Strawberry, Dwight Gooden, Gary Carter, Mookie Wilson, Lenny Dykstra, David Cone, Sid Fernandez, Howard Johnson, Ray Knight...I'll stop there, you get the idea. Let's face it, the guy had a few good offensive seasons with the Mets, but he was and is far from a fan favorite. He was always criticized for his silent approach. He was perceived as apathetic / lazy, he displayed no passion on and off the field. His memorabilia today doesn't seek prices anywhere near the others (It wasn't even 3 years ago when I bought a McReynolds game used bat with good use for $30.00). To doctor anything into a McReynolds item just seems downright silly.

[Swoboda4]

Nick,
1. I have to agree on the fact that there is no McReynolds forgery ring. I believe the helmet to be real and the one on the card. My opinion. I have entire ch 9 1987 Met games on VHS tapes somewhere and will for fun research this. The Mets were notorious for keeping the same helmet for a long period of time which adds to my comfort level.
But I must say that I encourage the questions that cbb5 asked especially black dyno-tape instead of blue. We can't get mad at good questions.

2. Has anyone noticed how e-bay now displays time left on a auction with a running countdown display at the 10 minutes left mark. Very nice.

Robert

[yankees159]

Hi All I was the winning bidder for this item and certainly have a vested interest in what the ch 9 footage proves. Man I love this Forum.

Thanks,

TJ

[metsbats]

You would think though if you were going to fake a mid 80's Mets helmet your choice of player wouldn't be McReynolds.

The only right handed batters on the 87 roster other than K-Mac that would raise the value of a right handed helmet with a flap would be Gooden, Darling, or HOJO. Perhaps Jefferies too.

[dcrules01]

I have been watching the thread and in my conclusion the helmet seems to be the one shown on the card.Not much difference. I also would be in agreement about someone not going through faking a Game Used Kevin Mcreynolds helmet when other more profitable stars could be done like Gooden ,Darling even HoJo.All key components to the 86 team which Mcreynolds was not a part of and to my recollection was never a big fan favorite during his tenure with the Mets.

[yankees159]

Guys a quick update. Nick is a real class act, he is researching through the community of Met Experts to see if anyone can find an example of a GU Mets Helmet with Black Dyno tape. That's the question I think we all have. Can anyone help us out? By the way, regardless of the answers we recieve I would highly recommend buying from Nick, he's one of the best guys in the hobby for he truly cares to find the correct answer.


Best,


TJ

[cbb5]

I do agree with all of the responses in this post. That's what makes this forum great - people with a lot of knowledge! One more thing to fan the flames (keep in mind I did say I do believe the helmet is legit somewhat) - I think Samuels put the nickname of the players on the helmet if the name was too long (i.e. Straw for Strawberry). I have an Aguilera from either 87 or 88 and it is labeled with AGGIE. Certainly McReynolds is quite long and perhaps Charlie put MAC on the dyno-tape. Just food for thought.
Chris

[TNTtoys]

I think Samuels put the nickname of the players on the helmet if the name was too long (i.e. Straw for Strawberry

Chris,

Not true. Here is a photo of a "STRAWBERRY." While a nickname may have appeared on some helmets, there was no science behind any of this.

Another Mets expert offered me some info from a conversation he had with Charlie last year. Charlie complained that the dyno tape kept falling off the helmets at a rate of more than once a month. He continuously had to replace it; that is, until roughly 1990, when the Mets began to use "P-Touch."

Regards,
Nick

[yankees159]

Guys I think the major point here is we are looking for an example of a helmut in a collection or photo that has black dyno tape.

Best,

TJ

[cbb5]

Ok, found some proof. I'll have to scan the pictures, but if you have the 1987 Mets yearbooks, you'll be able to see. In the original 1987 yearbook (World Championship edition) on page 38 you'll see McReynolds with blue dymo tape (photo taken during spring training). In the Revised edition, also on page 38, you'll see McReynolds during the season with a helmet with blue dymo tape and clearly a die-cut decal (not like the logo that this helmet has and the one that the Mets switched to during the 1987 season). I'll try to get the pictures scanned as soon as I can.
Chris

[dcrules01]

Nick has stated that the tape was replaced numerous times throughout the season. He has spoken to somebody that talked to the equipment manager with them.I have sent photos to a few private collectors and there comments were the helmet looked good and just because it has black tape is really not that big of an issue.The helmet is 22 years old do you really believe that the beating a helmet takes in a 162 game season that the tape would not have been replaced. I am baffled the thread keeps going on to be honest and what the point is.If the helmet was used in spring training or the regular season is it still not worn by the player and considered game used?

[dcrules01]

Are you are implying that the helmet was used in spring training and you found a photo of the helmet and it had blue tape instead of black that makes it not legit? The helmet is 22 years old how many items that you taped 22 years ago still have that same tape. Who knows where the helmet has been in the 22 years?

[yankees159]

Ok, found some proof. I'll have to scan the pictures, but if you have the 1987 Mets yearbooks, you'll be able to see. In the original 1987 yearbook (World Championship edition) on page 38 you'll see McReynolds with blue dymo tape (photo taken during spring training). In the Revised edition, also on page 38, you'll see McReynolds during the season with a helmet with blue dymo tape and clearly a die-cut decal (not like the logo that this helmet has and the one that the Mets switched to during the 1987 season). I'll try to get the pictures scanned as soon as I can.
Chris

This says it all for me. This is why I passed on the Helmet.

[TNTtoys]

Once again this thread has gone off the rails.

The proof that I believe Chris is alluding to here is the fact that McReynolds had worn a helmet or helmets that contained blue tape. We know this. It is a fact... But it is not what we're trying to prove.

We're trying to prove the that black tape could have been used... and I maintain my opinion that this is likely something we will not be able to prove or disprove.

As stated by the Mets equipment manager in a previous post: the tape came off the helmets at least once a month throughout the course of the season. If (for example) McReynolds had 2 helmets during 1987, he potentially had at least 5 tape changes per helmet throughout the course of the season.

Are the photos in the yearbook of this helmet or of an alternate? Were they taken before the tape fell off and was replaced with black? Unfortunately we don't know and will still not know unless a photo actually surfaces with visible black tape.

While I'm on that subject, doesn't anyone find it strange that out of the hundreds or even thousands of helmets that the Mets wore in the mid to late 1980s that only a handful have ever surfaced? Some of them had dark blue tape. Some had light blue tape. Some had grayish looking tape (perhaps a faded version of a prior blue?). Some had no tape at all.

In fact, one auction house sold Keith Hernandez's game used helmet for somewhere in the ballpark of $450.00. It had NO TAPE. Now, I go back to one of the original points I made in this thread. If you are going to "fake a game used helmet" who would it be? McReynolds - no. Hernandez - yes.

Back to the issue at hand -- proving black, not disproving blue -- I think we all know that if black did exist, it would have been somewhat of an anomaly. Given only a handful of helmets have hit the second market in the last 10 or so years (probably 10 or under), I think the chance of 2 of these (and I'm saying that it is a 2 out of 10 chance -- given 1 is the McReynolds) would be black would be a serious stretch.

[TNTtoys]

For the record, although I maintain that the McReynolds helmet is legitimate and that the "black tape issue" at hand has yet to be proven, I want to share something with the readers of the forum which will not be obvious here.

Today, with no questions asked, I refunded Todd his money, because he was not 100% comfortable with his purchase. As an ebay seller and valued member of this game used community, it is imperative to me that my customers are 100% happy with every single transaction. With me, it is not about being right or wrong. It's about maintaining a high ethical standard which I will not do anything to compromise.