e-bay deal question

[justinlm24]

I don't know what the deal is with people these days, but it never ceases to amaze me. Ok I sold a bat on e-bay nearly a month ago. Buyer paid with paypal, and bat was sent out. He got it and said everything looked good. I recieved an e-mail from him several days ago saying he sent the bat out for authentication to psa/dna and they would not authenticate it. Now he is wanting a refund. I exchanged e-mails with john taube and he said the bat was authentic, and may very well have been used by the player, but he couldn't attribute all the use to the player. Therefore he wasn't going to authenticate it. The buyer claims to have spoken with paypal and they told him he was owed a refund. However I called and spoke with someone at paypal and they told me I am not obligated to issue a refund. The buyer is trying to claim the item was not as described, when in fact it was. Taube never said the bat was never used by the player. Whats the right thing to do in this case?

[Jags Fan Dan]

Did you guarantee the bat to pass authentication? It sounds like the fact that Taube won't authenticate it doesn't mean it is not authentic. I say you do not owe a refund unless you made an explicit guarantee that it would pass PSA/DNA cert.

[eisenreich8]

If you would post the eBay auction number here there are those of us who would like to assist you, I am sure.

[Lokee]

he has 45 days to make a claim through paypal. Did he leave you a positive ? If he did your chances would be better winning the paypal case. If not 99.9% of the time paypal will grant the buyer a refund pending his return of the item to you.

:o

[justinlm24]

only thing I said in the auction was.."I bought this bat from a reputable dealer, and is guranteed authentic." Nothing about guaranteeing it to pass any authentication process. No he never left me any feedback, just got an e-mail that he recieved the bat and that it looked good. That in my mind tells me he certified that the bat was as described in the listing. Only way I'll issue a refund is if paypal makes me. We shall see.......

[ndevlin]

You put "John Doe game used bat" in the title and the description? Guaranteed it to be authentic, I send it in to get authenticated and I cant. Is that right?

Im not saying you are wrong, but if I bought a bat that was guaranteed authentic, and I then sent it in for authentication, and they wont do it for whatever reason, Id be a little upset too.

[Mauer7]

Didnt you have another problem with a different bat with a forum member? Maybe its you, and not the buyers? Possible?

[earlywynnfan]

You put "John Doe game used bat" in the title and the description? Guaranteed it to be authentic, I send it in to get authenticated and I cant. Is that right?

Im not saying you are wrong, but if I bought a bat that was guaranteed authentic, and I then sent it in for authentication, and they wont do it for whatever reason, Id be a little upset too.

Ditto. How would you feel if you were the buyer? If this is the scenario, I say do the right thing and refund the $$.

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

[justinlm24]

yea i had a little conflict with a forum member. but we worked that out. and it was not over the authenticity of the batl but simply there being a crack. like i said that was resolved. in this case the buyer simply doesnt want the bat. having what some call buyers remorse and simply wants a refund. this bat is authentic...as john taube told me in his e-mail. so my guarantee was correct. just because some other player may have also used the bat...which i was unaware of is not my problem. the bat is still game used by the player i said it was. its pretty simple. i have a 100% feedback rating on e-bay and have sold a couple items on here without incident. so no...its not me. people buy things then want to change their mind after the fact. i simply do not get it....

[Vintagedeputy]

Ditto. How would you feel if you were the buyer? If this is the scenario, I say do the right thing and refund the $$.

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com


Got to disagree here. Let me see if I understand the facts....

1) The buyer had plenty of time to review the item and do his research.

2) The seller said that the bat was "guranteed authentic". That is his word that it is authentic. He did not state that anyone else (authenticator) who laid eyes on it would also agree. Experts have been proven wrong.

3) The buyer sent an email saying that it looked good, meaning that he was satisfied with the bat. He only became unhappy when Taube wouldnt issue a letter?

4) Taube said that the bat was authentic but that he couldnt attribute ALL of the use to that player.

if that's all true, then I say tell the buyer to go pound salt. just my .02

[ndevlin]

I dunno. To me, when you guarantee an item 100% authentic, I dont see why a person shouldnt be able to get it authenticated by Mears/PSA and have it come back fine. If Taube couldnt authenticate the bat, for any reason, well, that tells me the bat wasnt a 100% game used bat by John Doe.

Like I said, I guess its still a 100% authentic John Doe bat. But its still not 100% game used by John Doe, which Im sure thats how you had it listed. And it looks as though why Taube wouldnt "authenticate" it.

[justinlm24]

vintage, yes those are the exact facts.....i just dont get it. like u said, this was a 7 day auction. he had ample time to research the item...and decide if he wanted to bid or not. i even offered him e-mail addresses to other buyers who are interested in the bat if he wanted to sell it to get his money back. but he wasnt interested. what made it worse was he lied to me about what taube said. he tried to tell me at first that taube said the bat was a fake. but in johns reply he said that he never told him that. ya know maybe had the buyer been honest with me that he didnt want the bat i woulda gave him a refund. but dont lie to make it look like i ripped him off then expect a favor....thanks to all for the insight and your thoughts.....

[vonbrandingo]

yea i had a little conflict with a forum member. but we worked that out. and it was not over the authenticity of the batl but simply there being a crack. i have a 100% feedback rating on e-bay and have sold a couple items on here without incident. so no...its not me. people buy things then want to change their mind after the fact. i simply do not get it....

Your statement about your ebay feedback rating is untrue. Your ebay id is paytonlm and your feedback rating is 83.3%. I was the winning bidder (legacyblue1) on ebay of the Dunn bat that you make reference to about being cracked but was stated as uncracked in the ebay item description when you sold it. After I won the ebay auction you refunded my money saying that you got an offer for 250 for the Dunn bat off of ebay and accepted it. I then find out through this forum that you sold the Dunn bat for 200, not 250. Shortly after, I saw you received a negative for another item you sold, don't know what that item was because you made your ebay id private.

[justinlm24]

you really ought to get your facts straight before coming on here untrue accusations. i sold the dunn for $250. minus $40 i refunded him to resolve his dispute. you do the math....as far as my ebay being set to private....i done that upon request of e-bay while they investigate the negative left by papasulu....long story so i wont go into that....so please don.t come on here trying to spread untrue information. i was upfront and honest with you, and refunded your money immediately! so tell the whole story...not just your side of it.....geez the audacity of some people....

[justinlm24]

as you see i do not use e-bay that much and fairly new to it as well. the one negative stems from an honest mistake when i sent a 2nd chance offer on the wrong item. this guy paid and as soon as i noticed my mistake i refunded his money and explained this to him. he answered by threatening me to sell him the item or he would leave negative feedback. which is a violation of the ebay feedback policy. so yea my feedback will be 100% as soon as it gets removed. which i fully expect it to. but honestly as little as i use ebay it doesnt really matter to me if it gets taken off or not. but feel free to check my other feedback however...all positive. also feel free to ask the forum members here who have bought my items as well. all satisfied. im an honest guy and not looking to rip anyone off. nor would i....so keep reaching....

[vonbrandingo]

Not a reach. I've stated facts. Your ebay feedback is not 100% as you state when trying to convey your reputation in this thread. Even if ebay is "investigating" the negative left for you about a month ago. And this is after I changed my negative to a neutral because you did refund my money. So all the others are not positive either. I'm sure you would have disputed my negative with ebay too, but it would have done no good since it was a clear violation of ebay policy.

With the Dunn bat price, I was pointing out a discrepancy in your details... twice you state in the thread about the Dunn bat that it was a $200 bat... before you posted that you reached a conclusion about it with the buyer.

I've sold only 40 items on ebay but haven't had a single problem like this or the others you post about. So something must be going on with you. All I know is, after my incident with you, this thread, and the Dunn thread, you're quick to put down your buyers and I wouldn't buy from you again because I don't trust what you say.

[newyork2]

Not a reach. I've stated facts. Your ebay feedback is not 100% as you state when trying to convey your reputation in this thread. Even if ebay is "investigating" the negative left for you about a month ago. And this is after I changed my negative to a neutral because you did refund my money. So all the others are not positive either. I'm sure you would have disputed my negative with ebay too, but it would have done no good since it was a clear violation of ebay policy.

With the Dunn bat price, I was pointing out a discrepancy in your details... twice you state in the thread about the Dunn bat that it was a $200 bat... before you posted that you reached a conclusion about it with the buyer.

I've sold only 40 items on ebay but haven't had a single problem like this or the others you post about. So something must be going on with you. All I know is, after my incident with you, this thread, and the Dunn thread, you're quick to put down your buyers and I wouldn't buy from you again because I don't trust what you say.

Yea this guy seemed a little shady when this thread started, Thanks for telling us his ebay ID, I know I wont be buying anything from him.

[vonbrandingo]

Yea this guy seemed a little shady when this thread started, Thanks for telling us his ebay ID, I know I wont be buying anything from him.

Sure, I wonder why he even started the thread. Stating that he sold a bat that he guaranteed to be authentic and that failed PSA/DNA authentication will only make potential buyers think twice about buying his items. If I hadn't purchased anything from him before, I'd be thanking him for the heads up not to.

[BULBUS]

If I bought a bat that was "guaranteed authentic" and it didn't pass PSA, I would want my money back.

-Chris

[Vintagedeputy]

If I bought a bat that was "guaranteed authentic" and it didn't pass PSA, I would want my money back.

-Chris

See, that's where I disagree. Aside from the fact that he never claimed that it would pass "third party authentication", there's something else to consider...

We've all seen bats and such used by other players, so we know that these things occur within the hobby. Players also change their habits on occassion so nothing is set in stone. Just because a third party won't authenticate an item doesnt necessarily mean the item is not genuine. Sure, a PSA/DNA certification or other paperwork would add to it, but I just dont think that third party auth's should be the end all/be all.

[ndevlin]

Lets say I have a Mickey Mantle game used bat for sale and I 100% guarantee its authentic. Well, the new owner sends it in to get it authenticated and they say they cannot because it doesnt match up to Mantle's characteristics, but one of his teammates, like Harry Bright.

Now, would you want a authentic Mantle bat used by Harry Bright? I know I wouldnt for the money one would probably drop on it. Because its not a game used Mickey Mantle bat. Just like you had your bat used by that particular player.

Pretty much, you didnt sell the guy the same item you had listed in the auction. Yes, it was an authentic John Doe bat.....I guess. But used by John Doe, well, Taube answered that question for ya. Really, I dont think its that difficult. Like I said, Id be pissed too and would want a refund.

[PwKw13]

Lots of sellers will guarantee something to be authentic, but that isn't always meaningful. The person issuing the guarantee could have no experience whatsoever in the hobby (and could be just passing along what they were told by a previous seller). If nobody else believes that the item is legitimate, what good is the guarantee. I think authentication by a reputable third party is important and reasonable to expect.

[skinsfan0521]

I think we'd need to know EXACTLY what Taube said, but it seems to me that his response was that it was a bat used by Player X, but had some use that looked like it wasn't from Player X. So, it could have been used by both Player X and Player Y... therefore it would be "authentic" because it was used by X. Nobody said it was ONLY used by X. I may have misunderstood what Taube said, but that was my interpretation of it.

Plus, as somebody mentioned earlier, authenticators are often wrong. Think of all the stories you hear about people getting an item autographed in person, right in front of them and then they submit it to be "authenticated" and they say it's not legit. There's variances to everything and an exception to every rule. Especially when you're trying to match up characteristics. If there was a photomatch (one way or the other) then obviously there would be no question.

And, on top of all that, the buyer wrote an email, saying that they got the item and were happy with it. That's really the only thing that matters. No matter what happens after that, it's a moot point.

-Brian

[mr.miracle]

Lets say I have a Mickey Mantle game used bat for sale and I 100% guarantee its authentic. Well, the new owner sends it in to get it authenticated and they say they cannot because it doesnt match up to Mantle's characteristics, but one of his teammates, like Harry Bright.

Now, would you want a authentic Mantle bat used by Harry Bright? I know I wouldnt for the money one would probably drop on it. Because its not a game used Mickey Mantle bat. Just like you had your bat used by that particular player.

Pretty much, you didnt sell the guy the same item you had listed in the auction. Yes, it was an authentic John Doe bat.....I guess. But used by John Doe, well, Taube answered that question for ya. Really, I dont think its that difficult. Like I said, Id be pissed too and would want a refund.

Not picking on anything particular here, but if anybody was dumb enough to buy a Mickey Mantle or similar HOF calibre player bat without having it professionally authenticated first then they should probably have their head examined. I have been for instance collecting Ripken game used for 20 plus years but I never put down $3k or more on a Ripken without first running it by a number of people at a minimum. I currently have 11 game used Ripken bats and all but two have been authenticated by MEARS or Taube. One of the other two came directly from a former team employee/clubhouse attendant. Mantle, Musial, DiMaggio etc. are in a totally different league than Ripken price wise etc. Maybe just me, but you have to be nuts to do something like that.

[vonbrandingo]

[QUOTE=skinsfan0521;149537]I think we'd need to know EXACTLY what Taube said

I agree with this and we'd also need to see the ebay auction item details. I believe the seller changes details to get forum members' approval so evidence of the facts would be necessary before making an opinion that this seller's actions are acceptable and that selling a guaranteed authentic item that fails authentication is an example of good and fair business.

[ndevlin]

[quote=skinsfan0521;149537]I think we'd need to know EXACTLY what Taube said

I agree with this and we'd also need to see the ebay auction item details. I believe the seller changes details to get forum members' approval so evidence of the facts would be necessary before making an opinion that this seller's actions are acceptable and that selling a guaranteed authentic item that fails authentication is an example of good and fair business.

Yep yep! How about a link to the auction so we can see what you're talking about here....

[sportscentury]

Is the seller/justinlm24 still participating in this thread?

[earlywynnfan]

I, too, am wondering why this thread was started, considering the original poster seems to have his mind up exactly what he is going to do.

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

[emann]

Seller should probably just give a refund and relist on ebay; if you've actually got names of other buyers why make that buyer contact them? Do the extra step yourself- you're a seller, it's not a big deal...

The timeline (almost a month) seems like the buyer bought it, waited to get it, shipped it to Taube, waited on Taube, then got the news (maybe waited to get the bat back even?). That's not an unfair amount of time for those steps, it's not like he sat on it for 3 months...

[vonbrandingo]

Went to leave a follow-up to the neutral feedback I gave justinlm/paytonlm on eBay, and his feedback is now at 71.4%. Perhaps the negative he just received is for the transaction that is the original subject of this thread, but the auction link and buyer's id are unavailable b/c paytonlm's feedback profile is currently private.

Buyers Beware

[Lokee]

from what I can see it is either

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250428435617&viewitem=&category=60596&salenotsupported

OR

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250433723273&viewitem=&category=60596&salenotsupported

Since one is the 27th and one is the 28th

Thank you Terapeak

[earlywynnfan]

How does someone sell the same bat 2 days in a row?

Ken
earlywynnfan5@hotmail.com

[Vintagedeputy]

wow! how much does someone really have to suck at selling on ebay to have a 71% rating!

dont go into a sales career!

[justinlm24]

If you'll read my earlier post, I accidentally sent a 2nd chance offer for the $311. Which was refuded immediately. The high bidder had already paid.

You guys can sit here and pass judgement all you want. But you do not know the situation. I got two bogus negatives, both on the same item. I am working to have both removed. One in which says PSA denied authentication. Yet I just got an e-mail from Taube last night that he will authenticate the bat. So that there is so untrue and andfair it's ridiculous. Like I told the buyer. I don't use e-bay often, nor do I plan on ever using it again after all this crap. It's not even worth it. Not to mention I paid over $80 in fees to sell one item. That's just absurd.

So to any of you who want to sit here and make you comments, come say them to me. If I was a shady person why would I even bother to start this thread? So again...get the FACTS before you pass judgement. Thanks....

[vonbrandingo]

If you'll read my earlier post, I accidentally sent a 2nd chance offer for the $311. Which was refuded immediately. The high bidder had already paid.

You guys can sit here and pass judgement all you want. But you do not know the situation. I got two bogus negatives, both on the same item. I am working to have both removed. One in which says PSA denied authentication. Yet I just got an e-mail from Taube last night that he will authenticate the bat. So that there is so untrue and andfair it's ridiculous. Like I told the buyer. I don't use e-bay often, nor do I plan on ever using it again after all this crap. It's not even worth it. Not to mention I paid over $80 in fees to sell one item. That's just absurd.

So to any of you who want to sit here and make you comments, come say them to me. If I was a shady person why would I even bother to start this thread? So again...get the FACTS before you pass judgement. Thanks....

I think members thought you were not participating in the thread anymore, otherwise comments would have been said to you. Facts were posted but not all of them by you and that is why members wanted to see the auction link and Taube's exact response. Good to see that more has come to light.

Is Taube authenticating the bat as game used by Pujols or just used by Pujols without confirming game use? He can now attribute all the use to Pujols and not some to another player as well or did he find out the other player that used the bat? If he can attribute use to Pujols only, I'd be interested in finding out why he changed his decision and curious about what you said to change his mind.

I'd think the buyer of this bat would want to keep the bat & not seek a refund and revise his/her feedback left for you after this news if the bat is Pujols authentic game used. Good luck with that!

[marknmd]

You're obligated to the text in your listing.

Seems to me if you're making a claim that the bat was game used, but you're not offering proof, and the buyer purchases same and acknowledges delivery, the buyer is obligated to find the proof that the item is NOT game used, if he wants to make a case. In other words, the buyer must find a reputable source to certify that the item is NOT game used.

Otherwise, he has no grounds to return the item and expect a refund - unless you have a item return policy in your listing.