(1)What Player is This and (2)is this label correct

[Swoboda4]

In researching Oakland uniforms I came upon this slide and can't I.D. the player


http://img1.iwascoding.de/2/2009/06/12/10EA33838277478791D7F9F397CA4618.jpg


Is this label correct for Mets 2000:
http://i.ebayimg.com/04/!BUYjPh!!Wk~$(KGrHgoOKkIEjlLmUkORBKNS0mjLbg~~_1.JP Ghttp://i.ebayimg.com/03/!BUYjVW!Bmk~$(KGrHgoOKiMEjlLmV6SyBKNS000LDg~~_1.JP G

[Swoboda4]

As Rudy says its OK for a 97-99 label to be re-issued and seen in 2000 but I've never seen that bottom strip tag on a 2000. Rudy's primer example for 2000:
http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/6882/rawlings4hz.jpg

[kingjammy24]

re: #2 - the mets jersey

the jersey in your photo is from 1995-98 in regards to the style. mets jerseys from 2000 are noticeably different. starting in 1999, they added the drop shadow to the team wordmark, letters, and numbers.

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/2301/sillyh.jpg

rudy.

[sox83cubs84]

The Mets jersey is minor league...same type of tagging as some of the Baltimore look-alike Bluefield Orioles gamers of the mid-late 1990s.
Also, while I hate making your ID task on the Oakland player any more daunting, be aware that the 1968 vests were worn in spring training up to and including 1971. A 1972 Topps card of Bob Locker, who was dealt to the A's in mid-1970, is seen wearing one in a spring shot on his card that couldn't be any earlier than 1971. That ricekty-looking ol' outfield wall is definitely from a spring park.

Dave M.
Chicago area

[Swoboda4]

Thanks Dave and yes its a minor league jersey(currently on ebay) said to have been given by the Mets to the Hyannis team. Now if that was the case,why place a new strip tag as this was notthe strip tags present when jersey was with the Mets.
Rudy thanks for the reference to style I didn't "see" that. Thanks. Do the minors when they acquired MLB uniforms (back then/still do?)alterted the tags?

[TNTtoys]

Thanks Dave and yes its a minor league jersey(currently on ebay) said to have been given by the Mets to the Hyannis team. Now if that was the case,why place a new strip tag as this was notthe strip tags present when jersey was with the Mets.
Rudy thanks for the reference to style I didn't "see" that. Thanks. Do the minors when they acquired MLB uniforms (back then/still do?)alterted the tags?

I do not buy the argument that just because a minor league team has the jersey that it must have been given to them by the major league team. I have seen many of these jerseys (I have sold a couple of dozen of them) and they are tagged very differently to the major league jerseys. Furthermore, minor league Mets jerseys would not have had NOBs -- meaning the placement of the numbers would have been in an entirely different position. Also, the fact that the Mets haven't used nameplates since the 1980's would imply that every letter and back number must have been removed first before being passed to the minors, and a new higher number then placed on the back after the stripping... which is completely absurd. Fact is that the Mets used to recycle their jerseys through the minors. I have not seen this practice in many years.

[kingjammy24]

Thanks Dave and yes its a minor league jersey(currently on ebay) said to have been given by the Mets to the Hyannis team. Now if that was the case,why place a new strip tag as this was notthe strip tags present when jersey was with the Mets.
Rudy thanks for the reference to style I didn't "see" that. Thanks. Do the minors when they acquired MLB uniforms (back then/still do?)alterted the tags?

assuming a scenario where this jersey was recycled from the ny mets, the style is from 1995-98. during those years, the mets jerseys weren't supplied by rawlings. they were supplied by AIS. this lends support to nick's idea that the mets minor league team(s) received their own shirts and not major league hand-me-downs.

in terms of minor league teams who did/do receive major league hand-me-downs, it doesn't seem to make much sense of them to alter the original tagging. they may add their own notations (usually via marker) but for them to undergo the laborious task of stripping off all of the major league tagging for no functional reason doesn't make much sense. from the hand-me-down jerseys i've seen, the original major league tagging was left intact.

lastly, it's my opinion that a 2000 mets gamer by rawlings (rawlings did supply the mets in 2000) would have a size tag and set tag, much like this one: http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=36758 or this one http://www.americanmemorabilia.com/Auction_Item.asp?Auction_ID=33324

rudy.

[RJB44]

Angel Mangual- 1971

[Swoboda4]

Thanks RJB44.
Thanks everyone again for the imput with the jersey. The e-bay seller,bigpavb,sells numerous Met items via the minors (I picked up a Viola home pinstripe set 1/1990 pants with no less than 4 different uniform numbers marked inside the waistband from this seller):
Here's the jersey in question's listing:
http://cgi.ebay.com/2000-NEW-YORK-METS-44-GAME-WORN-JERSEY-SIZE-46_W0QQitemZ260428774074QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVintage _Sports_Memorabilia?hash=item3ca2c3baba&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A10%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7 C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

The Viola pants with minor league manager Freiling name inside:
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l11/redmills/aviola7.jpg?t=1245476824

[G1X]

As previously pointed out in several posts I made last year including one in the "Rawlings Primer" thread, the Rawlings tag being discussed was first used in 1996, not 1997, as shown below on a well-worn Willie McGee Cardinals jersey in my collection.

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=12797&stc=1&d=1206849679

[Swoboda4]

G1X thanks ,that widens my search for who's uniform on the Mets it could have belonged to. As Rudy says his primers are not air tight. It just puzzles me why if it was a Mets jersey why the new bottom strip tag(along with the obvious removal of the original flag tag OR it's just a flat out minor league jersey (Hyannis Mets). Also there has been no problems with this seller in the past along with a great Viola piece I got from him.

[kingjammy24]

G1X thanks ,that widens my search for who's uniform on the Mets it could have belonged to. As Rudy says his primers are not air tight. It just puzzles me why if it was a Mets jersey why the new bottom strip tag(along with the obvious removal of the original flag tag OR it's just a flat out minor league jersey (Hyannis Mets). Also there has been no problems with this seller in the past along with a great Viola piece I got from him.

if the jersey style is from 1995-98 and those years were supplied by AIS and this jersey is from rawlings, then i think it pretty much points to it being a minor league-only jersey. ie: a jersey that did not originate from the ny mets.

additionally, in 1996 and 1997 the mets wore sleeve patches; the mcsherry memorial and the jackie robinson patch respectively.

i just don't see how this jersey could've once been worn by the ny mets.
in order for it to have come from the ny mets, it'd have to mean that in 1998 or 1999 (the most likely years) the mets wore rawlings (which i don't believe they did), the jersey lacks the standard flag tags, the minor league team added their own strip tag. it doesn't jive.

the rawlings tag coming out in 1996 rather than 1997 doesn't change anything in this particular case.

rudy.

[kingjammy24]

no rawlings logo on the home pinstripes. (i am aware that some of the other jersey versions such as the black alt. were supplied by other mfrs.)

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/1567/sillyl.jpg

rudy.

[Swoboda4]

The 2006 Cape Cod league Hyannis Mets wore this uniform that outwardly resembled the parent team:
http://www.insidevandy.com/drupal/files/images/flaherty-with-kid-.inline.jpg (http://www.insidevandy.com/drupal/node/143)
Ryan Flaherty 2006

Seller also selling Cape Cod Mets like the one above,and calling it as such:
http://cgi.ebay.com/1999-NEW-YORK-METS-23-GAME-WORN-JERSEY-CAPE-COD-PATCH_W0QQitemZ260428777081QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVint age_Sports_Memorabilia?hash=item3ca2c3c679&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A10%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7 C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50
http://i.ebayimg.com/10/!BUYklCg!2k~$(KGrHgoOKioEjlLme88sBKNS38BIsQ~~_1.JP Ghttp://i.ebayimg.com/03/!BUYksTwBmk~$(KGrHgoOKicEjlLmYvG8BKNS4Ny)fg~~_1.JP G
http://i.ebayimg.com/18/!BUYkqr!BGk~$(KGrHgoOKiwEjlLmDn3YBKNS4JiDk!~~_1.JP G
Good seller it just a puzzle on the original item though.



http://l.yimg.com/g/images/spaceball.gifhttp://l.yimg.com/g/images/spaceball.gif

[TNTtoys]

The 2006 Cape Cod league Hyannis Mets wore this uniform that outwardly resembled the parent team:

Ryan Flaherty 2006

Seller also selling Cape Cod Mets like the one above,and calling it as such:
http://cgi.ebay.com/1999-NEW-YORK-METS-23-GAME-WORN-JERSEY-CAPE-COD-PATCH_W0QQitemZ260428777081QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVint age_Sports_Memorabilia?hash=item3ca2c3c679&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A10%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7 C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50


Good seller it just a puzzle on the original item though.



http://l.yimg.com/g/images/spaceball.gifhttp://l.yimg.com/g/images/spaceball.gif

Robert,

Yes, they resembled the parent team's jersey... this is because they came from the same manufacturer... but there were differences.

1. The parent team Mets stopped wearing these jerseys years before the minor league team wore these; the minor league jerseys were all year tagged; hence, this was not a "hand me down" situation.
By 1998, the New York Mets were already sporting the black drop shadow.

2. AIS tagged the minor league jerseys (Hyannis, St. Lucie, etc.) on the outside lower right, and they tagged the major league jerseys on the inside of the back tail, in the center.

3. The year tag is different on the major league jerseys and the minor league jerseys. I believe the Major League jerseys had a set tag too; the minor league jerseys didn't (ok, I'm being lazy and don't want to run upstairs and check).

4. In order for the New York Mets to have passed any of these jerseys down to the minor leagues, they would have needed to unstitch every letter of the NOB (glue & all), every back number, every tag, every patch/embroidery on the sleeves, and then restitch the back number.

5. As Rudy pointed out earlier, Minor League teams marked the recycled jerseys up with marker. These are clean.
Notice the marks all over your Viola pants, etc. This is how the "hand me downs" were treated.


Bottom line...

If the seller is trying to pass these off as "hand me downs" from the parent club, he is not representing them correctly or honestly.

The other equipment he is selling (e.g. pants that contain NY Mets player / team tagging that were in fact recycled) looks fine. The minor league jerseys are not as represented.

[G1X]

Just to clarify my previous post (#10), my comment was strictly intended to clarify that the particular style of Rawlings tail tagging was first introduced in 1996, not 1997. There seems to be a disconnect on that issue whenever it is raised in this Forum. As for the Mets jersey, I have no comment since I do not have any experience in that area and will defer to others to clarify that issue.

Mark Hayne
Gridiron Exchange
gixc@verizon.net

Always looking for Atlanta Falcons and WFL jerseys

[sox83cubs84]

no rawlings logo on the home pinstripes. (i am aware that some of the other jersey versions such as the black alt. were supplied by other mfrs.)

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/1567/sillyl.jpg

rudy.

Makes sense. Rawlings was not an official MLB uniform supplier from 1992-99. As such, they could not use their sleeve logo on any MLB items they made for the teams. Similar logoless Rawlings gamers can be found with the 1992-99 Cardinals, the 1992-94 Ddogers, and 1992-99 Pirates, especially from 1992-96 (they did order some Russell unies after that).

Dave M.
Chicago area