Interesting Ricky Gutierrez Game Used Hat on Ebay

[sandman02910]

I was searching ebay for game used Red Sox items and became very excited when I quickly read "Game Used World Series Hat". Then I became very confused because it was a Ricky Gutierrez hat being offered by ESM. I know Ricky played for the Sox for a short time that year but I am almost 100% positive he was not on the world series roster for the team. This is the case with every roster I have looked up for the Red Sox during the 2004 World Series. I have emailed ESM concerning this item because they have offered many Gutierrez items in the past. I am still awaiting their response. Does anyone else know if he did indeed play for the Red Sox during the World Series. In fact if he didn't how could he not remember not being in a World Series....and for that matter breaking a 86 year curse. Hopefully I'm missing something here. I will post ESM's response once it is received.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Ricky-Gutierrez-Game-Used-Red-Sox-World-Series-Hat-ESM_W0QQitemZ8810628329QQcategoryZ50117QQrdZ1QQcmd ZViewItem

[trsent]

Ricky did not appear in the 2004 World Series, but I assume he did wear this hat in the dugout if that is how he autographed it. Needless to say, this brings up the debate, if a player is in the dugout in uniform is the item "game used"?

Needless to say, since manager and coaches items are sold as "game used" I personally consider all items worn on game day then "game used".

[suave1477]

I was looking on google and it said somewhere that he pinched hit 3 times in the post season for 2004. I hope this helps.

Unfortunately it wouldnt let me copy and paste otherwise I would have posted it here.

[sandman02910]

Ricky was cut from the Red Sox active roster on October 5th 2004
This is from the Red Sox Transactions from redsox.com
10/5/04 Removed RHP Terry Adams, RHP Pedro Astacio, DH Ellis Burks, LHP Lenny DiNardo, INF Ricky Gutierrez, OF Adam Hyzdu, RHP Byung-Hyun Kim, C Sandy Martinez, INF David McCarty, RHP Ramiro Mendoza, and RHP Scott Williamson from the active roster.

On October 12th they added Mendoza and removed Youkilis and just before the WS they swapped Youkilis and Mendoza again.
Gutierrez was not a member of the active roster and therefore was not eligable to play in any 2004 Playoff Game. I was at the first 2 games of the series and only the players on the active roster were present. Gutierrez was not.

[trsent]

Ricky was cut from the Red Sox active roster on October 5th 2004
This is from the Red Sox Transactions from redsox.com
10/5/04 Removed RHP Terry Adams, RHP Pedro Astacio, DH Ellis Burks, LHP Lenny DiNardo, INF Ricky Gutierrez, OF Adam Hyzdu, RHP Byung-Hyun Kim, C Sandy Martinez, INF David McCarty, RHP Ramiro Mendoza, and RHP Scott Williamson from the active roster.

On October 12th they added Mendoza and removed Youkilis and just before the WS they swapped Youkilis and Mendoza again.
Gutierrez was not a member of the active roster and therefore was not eligable to play in any 2004 Playoff Game. I was at the first 2 games of the series and only the players on the active roster were present. Gutierrez was not.

Great work, so now the next step is to find out why a player would sign an item as "Game Used" if they didn't even apper on the bench for the game?

[sandman02910]

Here is the reply I received from ESM's vice president.

He was on the roster, but did not see any time on the field.

Best Regards,

Matt Monteleone

Obviously this is not true as Gutierrez clearly was not on the 25 man World Series Roster for the Red Sox and I have followed the rules of the board by contacting the seller but their reply seems to be incorrect. I realize it is only a Ricky Gutierrez hat but someone will be paying for an item that is not what it seems to be. Again I am curious as to how Ricky doesn't remember not being on the roster and would pen such an inscription.
Thanks
Scott

[astros*bats]

This is the 2nd questionable Ricky Gutierrez item listed recently by ESM. You might recall the thread where I saw an ESM listing on eBay for a Houston Astros Ricky Gutierrez 1999 NLCS game used bat. The problem was that the Astros never made it to the NLCS that year. Here is the link:

http://www.gameuseduniverse.com/vb_forum/showthread.php?t=2279&highlight=ricky+gutierrez

All of the mismatched inscriptions really make me question some of their items. However, just because Ricky wasn't on the World Series roster does not mean that he was not dressed and in uniform for the World Series.

Last year, the Astros decided to leave Charles Gipson off of the playoff roster, yet he still dressed for all of the playoff and World Series games and was on the bench. I have personally seen his World Series jersey, World Series bats, and World Series hat. Just because he didn't play in the games doesn't mean he wasn't issued the World Series equipment.

But again, the inscription is deceptive. Take it how you wish.

[suave1477]

That is actually a good point!!! A player can still sit on the bench even if he is not on the active roster. So what stops him from saying "Hey Coach do you mind if I come to the series to watch?"
Think about it? It might be highly unlikely but it is possible.

[sandman02910]

Your right it is highly unlikely but possible. At this point I can understand arguing the "Game Used" idea behind a player that is on the team but doesn't get in the game but in this instance Ricky Gutierrez had the same chance of playing as the kid wearing the WS Red Sox hat selling peanuts in section 3. Luis Tiant wears a Red Sox hat to sign autographs before a game in autograph alley at Fenway every few days.....he is a player.......is that game used. The line has to be drawn somewhere and that Gutierrez hat is no more game used than the hat I was wearing in the Right Field Grandstand......then again I guess it is a matter of opinion.

[suave1477]

Sandman your absolutely correct, but this is called pushing the envelope, whether its the player or the dealer. Whether the player blew snot out at the game in a tissue as long as he was wearing this hat they are trying to push out as Game Used. Its just the nature of business!!! I guess on there minds as long as it is not a complete lie then it is ok????

[trsent]

Your right it is highly unlikely but possible. At this point I can understand arguing the "Game Used" idea behind a player that is on the team but doesn't get in the game but in this instance Ricky Gutierrez had the same chance of playing as the kid wearing the WS Red Sox hat selling peanuts in section 3. Luis Tiant wears a Red Sox hat to sign autographs before a game in autograph alley at Fenway every few days.....he is a player.......is that game used. The line has to be drawn somewhere and that Gutierrez hat is no more game used than the hat I was wearing in the Right Field Grandstand......then again I guess it is a matter of opinion.

I guess you need to pull out some video tapes and see if you can catch a glimpse of Ricky sitting on the bench during any game.

Oh wait, you are not bidding now anyway, so save your time and hopefully someone will tell Ricky to stop writing crap without his daily medicine.

[astros*bats]

http://cache.gettyimages.com/xc/51594821.jpg?v=1&c=MS_GINS&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF1939847EC77F5F8D1CEF386EF3F65AE03D9

This picture shows Ricky celebrating after Game 4 of the 2004 World Series with Orlando Cabrera. That is a "Championship" hat he is holding in the picture, but you can obviously see he is in jersey and was on the bench for the series. Again, he never played in a World Series game, but was on the bench for the games.

[trsent]

The picture isn't coming up, if you can't get it to show, email it to me and I'll try to post it. Great find.

[suave1477]

Great Find !!!!!!!!!!!

Wow Goes To Show You We Dont Know Everything!!!!!!!

[ryan4fregosi]

This thread may signal the birth of a new category: Anyone for BENCH-WORN Memorabilia?

[sandman02910]

I'm just not sure that if I were a player I would feel I had the right to consider a hat I wore while sitting on the bench during a game that I wasn't even on the roster to play in was game used.....let alone the fact that I wasn't on the roster during the ALDS or the ALCS. Again there seems to be alot of gray area around the term "Game Used". I have almost bit off on the concept of a player being on a team and even if they don't play in a certain game that item may be game used...ie a pitcher on his off day. I will never be able to bite off on a player that is not on the team but simply visiting the team wearing a team hat and consider it game used.